Jump to content


Photo

Hamilton/Trulli inquiry to be re-opened by FIA (merged)


  • Please log in to reply
1933 replies to this topic

#1 LuisPena

LuisPena
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:31

ok
this is a fast "guest what are they going to do"?
FIA will look to new evidence in order to clarify hamilton/trulli episode in Melborne.
They said
"An FIA spokesman has confirmed that stewards from the Australian Grand Prix will reconvene to evaluate further evidence not available at the time of the initial inquiry - which took place after the race last weekend."

What is your opinionof what is going to happen
Please tell your answers before they do.

Advertisement

#2 EvilPhil II

EvilPhil II
  • Member

  • 587 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:35

Trulli 3rd
Hamilton 4th

#3 Anomnader

Anomnader
  • Member

  • 8,616 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:35

In the other thread I've called it a April fools, I'm not 100% sure, but I guess I'll have to stick with it, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

But this post, just also pointed out something that I think is wrong.

An FIA spokesman has confirmed that stewards from the Australian Grand Prix will reconvene to evaluate further evidence not available at the time of the initial inquiry


Yes, I'm guessing again, but I don't believe this can happen, a stewards bounds stops at each others Grand Prix, if this story was true, the Austrialian Grand Prix Stewards can't reconvene to evaluate, their time is gone, it would be down to FIA to call Lewis and McLaren up to a meeting for discussions on what happened, with the stewards called for evidence.

#4 barteks

barteks
  • Member

  • 2,329 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:36

Trulli on the Team Radio:
http://www.wrzuta.pl...io_melbourne_09

#5 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,577 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:36

Make the stewards do ten laps in their bare feet for cocking it up in the first place. :smoking:

Or, if it is a joke that has gone badly wrong, revoke the pit passes and media access for AMuS for a few races.

Other than that, it's the FIA, who knows what they will do. ;)

#6 tahadar

tahadar
  • Member

  • 499 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:44

now what are they gonna do? that trulli oboard tape...cant tell if its real or not because of the filtering out of high-rev sounds and such.

#7 F575 GTC

F575 GTC
  • Member

  • 921 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:45

http://www.itv-f1.co...e.aspx?id=45422
ITV are saying it too.

#8 john ruston

john ruston
  • Member

  • 969 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:45

Usual deal.Toyota 3rd,Hamilton nowhere.Can't be seen to fib to stewards.Grid penalty as well.

MM men-They don't like them and will screw them.There will be a second model Ferrari on MM cabinet!.

#9 stevvy1986

stevvy1986
  • Member

  • 3,168 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:46

Originally posted by tahadar
now what are they gonna do? that trulli oboard tape...cant tell if its real or not because of the filtering out of high-rev sounds and such.


the 1 thing i'd say there is there was a thread started by someone, and someone did actually post the frequencies of some of the team radios in the week leading upto the race

#10 SchumiBoy

SchumiBoy
  • Member

  • 1,261 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:47

Originally posted by tahadar
now what are they gonna do? that trulli oboard tape...cant tell if its real or not because of the filtering out of high-rev sounds and such.


Trulli will get his place back and Hamilton/McLaren will get in trouble

#11 Anomnader

Anomnader
  • Member

  • 8,616 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:48

Originally posted by F575 GTC
http://www.itv-f1.co...e.aspx?id=45422
ITV are saying it too.


I've said I might not be right, but...


http://www.itv-f1.co...e.aspx?id=45422

According to German publication Auto Motor und Sport, Hamilton told the stewards that he had slowed because he was distracted by a message on his dashboard display – not because he was instructed by his team to give the place back to Trulli, in the (misplaced) fear that he might be penalised for his earlier pass.

#12 F575 GTC

F575 GTC
  • Member

  • 921 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:51

Originally posted by Anomnader


I've said I might not be right, but...


http://www.itv-f1.co...e.aspx?id=45422

According to German publication Auto Motor und Sport, Hamilton told the stewards that he had slowed because he was distracted by a message on his dashboard display – not because he was instructed by his team to give the place back to Trulli, in the (misplaced) fear that he might be penalised for his earlier pass.


Well it might turn out to be an April Fool, we won't know till we get something official - but i can't see all the websites getting together, and a journalist putting his reputation on the line by; doing something like that.

Not to mention it doesn't make McLaren look very good if it is a joke.

#13 stevvy1986

stevvy1986
  • Member

  • 3,168 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:51

wonder how far they can go in terms of punishment if he did lie to the stewards, as there doesnt seem to be any precedent regarding penalties for lieing to the stewards.........i guess anything from a fine,upto DQ from australia and a ban is possible

#14 SchumiBoy

SchumiBoy
  • Member

  • 1,261 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:53

Originally posted by stevvy1986
wonder how far they can go in terms of punishment if he did lie to the stewards, as there doesnt seem to be any precedent regarding penalties for lieing to the stewards.........i guess anything from a fine,upto DQ from australia and a ban is possible


How do McLaren get themselves into these situations ? Really ?

#15 Anomnader

Anomnader
  • Member

  • 8,616 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:54

Anyone on the point that the Melbourne Stewards can't reconvene anymore, they can only give evidence to a FIA court?

#16 Rob

Rob
  • Member

  • 8,254 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:57

April Fool. Must be.

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me....

#17 J2NH

J2NH
  • Member

  • 1,384 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 01 April 2009 - 23:57

Originally posted by stevvy1986
wonder how far they can go in terms of punishment if he did lie to the stewards, as there doesnt seem to be any precedent regarding penalties for lieing to the stewards.........i guess anything from a fine,upto DQ from australia and a ban is possible


DQ for Australia.
Two race ban.
Big fine for McLaren.

McLaren radio tapes will tell the tale. I hope he did not lie, the FIA will not look kindly on this. Lying to an official falls into that "brining the sport into disrepute" area.

#18 big x

big x
  • Member

  • 446 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:02

Why would Hamilton lie or cheat, as some have insinuated, to gain something he already had ?
Trulli fell off and lost his place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't hear Toyota tell him to cede
the place back to Hamilton on the radio which would have secured them 4th place. We at this point only have Trulli's word for it that Hamilton refused to take back 3rd when offered.

#19 Anomnader

Anomnader
  • Member

  • 8,616 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:05

well, then we get back into the realms of what people are accusing lewis off, in how do we know trulli offered Lewis back the place, with a wave through how was lewis going to know what was going on ;-)

Advertisement

#20 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,628 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:06

No clue, we just dont know enough info.

We need to know which version of the story is true - did Lewis tell the stewards that he was distracted by flashing lights on the wheel and *thats* why Trulli went by; or, did Mclaren tell Lewis to get behind Trulli and stay there?

It seems that the story that Mclaren told Lewis to let Trulli by has a bit more evidence, though. And if its true that Lewis lied to the stewards about why Trulli went ahead of him, then I think that Trulli will be reinstated as 3rd place, and Lewis would be DQ'd.

#21 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,628 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:10

Originally posted by big x
Why would Hamilton lie or cheat, as some have insinuated, to gain something he already had ?
Trulli fell off and lost his place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't hear Toyota tell him to cede
the place back to Hamilton on the radio which would have secured them 4th place. We at this point only have Trulli's word for it that Hamilton refused to take back 3rd when offered.

He didn't *already* have 3rd, though, at the time. I seem to remember Jarno Trulli on the podium, not Lewis.

#22 big x

big x
  • Member

  • 446 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:13

This is what we do know....

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#23 stevvy1986

stevvy1986
  • Member

  • 3,168 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:18

1 thing to note........just seen this on the autosport website

http://www.autosport...cle.php/id/2073

now, surely, if it was april fools, they wouldn't have someone spending however long, writing that article would they? :

#24 big x

big x
  • Member

  • 446 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:24

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

He didn't *already* have 3rd, though, at the time. I seem to remember Jarno Trulli on the podium, not Lewis.


Yes, but he knew he would be given 3rd because Trulli overtook him and then didn't cede the position back despite having a whole lap to do so !
In the BBC interview straight after the race Hamilton said " you heard what happened on the radio right ?"
to the reporter because he knew the broadcasters now get the radio feed. Knowing that he would hardly then go the stewards with a needlessly fabricated story.

#25 slideways

slideways
  • Member

  • 3,309 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:25

That's not cricket.

McLaren could be in big trouble over this.

#26 SchumiBoy

SchumiBoy
  • Member

  • 1,261 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:29

Originally posted by big x


Yes, but he knew he would have 3rd because Trulli overtook him and then didn't cede the position back despite having a whole lap to do so !
In the BBC interview straight after the race Hamilton said " you heard what happened on the radio right ?"
to the reporter because he knew the broadcasters now get the radio feed. Knowing that he would hardly then go the stewards with a needlessly fabricated story.


Read the Adam Cooper article.

Before meeting the stewards Hamilton admits to letting Trulli back past.
Then Whitmarsh says that Trulli passed them under yellow and retook the position
Then Hamilton when meeting the stewards also says that it was all Trulli and agrees with Whitmarsh.
Then Haug puts in the last word by saying "Trulli had an off and Lewis overtook him for third place, but he let Trulli past again" in the team statement

#27 engel

engel
  • Member

  • 5,037 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:33

This whole thing was a mess ... First thing, Hamilton said he was instructed to let Trulli pass. That made me wonder why on earth would the stewards strip Trulli, besides I m pretty sure I recall Trulli grinding to almost a complete stop to let Hamilton in front again and Lewis wouldn't pass.

I can't figure out neither the stewards decision nor why would Hamilton tell pit lane reporters one story then half an hour later go in and tell the stewards a completely different story.

Either way, hope it's an April fools ... the alternative is too weird to contemplate.

#28 David Ricardo

David Ricardo
  • Member

  • 245 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:41

It doesn´t look like an April´s fools to me. Maybe Hamilton was excited after the race because he was just about to meet that beautiful girl he dates and got his thoughts a little mixed up.

#29 Zarathustra

Zarathustra
  • Member

  • 306 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:42

This is exactly the sort of thing the sport was supposed to be moving away from. It's embarrassing and stupid and it'll turn new viewers off.

#30 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,577 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:48

We know for a fact that Jarno threw it off the circuit and Lewis went past while he(Jarno) was off the circuit.

We know that Jarno passed (on circuit) Lewis to regain 3rd spot. Whether this was under instructions from either teams is still unclear, but, he should not have overtaken (on circuit) under yellow flags anyway.

If Lewis had retaken 3rd spot by overtaking Jarno again (on circuit) would they then both be guilty of overtaking under yellow flags? :confused:

#31 paulm

paulm
  • Member

  • 177 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:57

Originally posted by engel
I can't figure out neither the stewards decision nor why would Hamilton tell pit lane reporters one story then half an hour later go in and tell the stewards a completely different story.


Perhaps Hamilton simply said as little as possible?

I think that's a reasonable attitude to take with stewards. Answer their questions but don't volunteer anything you don't have to. You can never be sure what they'll have a problem with or how they'll interpret what you say so just shut up as much as possible.

#32 J2NH

J2NH
  • Member

  • 1,384 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 02 April 2009 - 00:57

Its being reported in too many places to be an April Fools day prank and additionally is pretty damning against McLaren and Hamilton.

Australian race stewards are traveling to Malaysia to review this, again if there was not additional evidence that the original decision was correct this would not be happening. Those tapes will be the reveal.

If this is true Hamilton and McLaren are in for a world of hurt.

#33 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,577 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:01

Originally posted by J2NH
Its being reported in too many places to be an April Fools day prank and additionally is pretty damning against McLaren and Hamilton.


I read you, but it does all stem from one publication/website, so it could be just a prank that has gone way out of control. ;)

#34 Danielm

Danielm
  • Member

  • 37 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:01

Originally posted by ForeverF1
We know for a fact that Jarno threw it off the circuit and Lewis went past while he(Jarno) was off the circuit.

We know that Jarno passed (on circuit) Lewis to regain 3rd spot. Whether this was under instructions from either teams is still unclear, but, he should not have overtaken (on circuit) under yellow flags anyway.

If Lewis had retaken 3rd spot by overtaking Jarno again (on circuit) would they then both be guilty of overtaking under yellow flags? :confused:


If Lewis slowed down a lot to the point where Trulli though he had a problem and was pulling over, what the was Trulli suppose to do???? Stop?? or was he suppose to slow down and cause an accident like what we had in the Japan GP a few years back??

Trulli did everything he was suppose to, this is no one fault but McLaren if they did tell Hamilton to let Trulli by. Trulli should have his 3rd place back!

#35 slideways

slideways
  • Member

  • 3,309 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:02

Originally posted by ForeverF1
We know for a fact that Jarno threw it off the circuit and Lewis went past while he(Jarno) was off the circuit.

We know that Jarno passed (on circuit) Lewis to regain 3rd spot. Whether this was under instructions from either teams is still unclear, but, he should not have overtaken (on circuit) under yellow flags anyway.

If Lewis had retaken 3rd spot by overtaking Jarno again (on circuit) would they then both be guilty of overtaking under yellow flags? :confused:


Lewis slowed down to the point where Jarno had no other option but completely stop on track, or overtake again. Jarno did not want to overtake him as he knew Lewis had the right to stay in front. If they did this on purpose, then stayed silent when Trulli was penalised (losing all points in the process) also on purpose, they are in deep shit.

#36 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,577 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:03

But, we don't "know" that this is fact that he slowed to such an extent.

#37 Danielm

Danielm
  • Member

  • 37 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:05

Originally posted by ForeverF1
But, we don't "know" that this is fact that he slowed to such an extent.


We do... Hamilton said it, Trulli said it, and now the case is open again.

#38 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,577 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:08

Originally posted by Danielm


We do... Hamilton said it, Trulli said it, and now the case is open again.


Allegedly  ;) :wave:

#39 SchumiBoy

SchumiBoy
  • Member

  • 1,261 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:08

Originally posted by ForeverF1


I read you, but it does all stem from one publication/website, so it could be just a prank that has gone way out of control. ;)


http://www.autosport...cle.php/id/2073

If this is a joke somebody forgot to tell Adam Cooper about it

Advertisement

#40 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,577 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:11

Originally posted by SchumiBoy


http://www.autosport...cle.php/id/2073

If this is a joke somebody forgot to tell Adam Cooper about it


I guess we will know in about 6 or 7 hours time eh!. ;)

#41 Scaramanga

Scaramanga
  • Member

  • 96 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:13

If Hamilton was given orders to let Trulli pass, then Trulli should be 3rd, but Hamilton should still be 4th. Only really a 1 point difference one way or the other.

However, the bigger issue is that there is some vagueness when these drivers are racing. In which case the McLaren team were scared of being penalized for getting ahead of Trulli, and Trulli might question his track position, which lead to this current predicament. Its very hard to tell in the heat of the moment, and neither should be penalized.

In which case, Hamilton 3rd and Trulli 4th would also be fair. Points should be awarded to what is actually fair relative to their real accomplishments. I think neither side tried to pass under safety car conditions, and both sides were confused as to their immediate positions.

#42 Crazy Canuck

Crazy Canuck
  • Member

  • 2,517 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:17

Originally posted by Zarathustra
This is exactly the sort of thing the sport was supposed to be moving away from. It's embarrassing and stupid and it'll turn new viewers off.


And that's exactly why Nascar leave the results firm as the checkered flag falls and deduct points, give fines, bans, ect. But the race results are the race results, period.

CC

#43 Menace

Menace
  • Member

  • 12,390 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:18

Originally posted by J2NH


DQ for Australia.
Two race ban.
Big fine for McLaren.

McLaren radio tapes will tell the tale. I hope he did not lie, the FIA will not look kindly on this. Lying to an official falls into that "brining the sport into disrepute" area.


IF Mclaren/Lewis lied, what on earth were they thinking? How can Mclaren continue to let these types of supposed "mistakes" happen?

This is no Aprils fool, and if those tapes prove Mclaren/Hamilton lied to the stewards, they are in a heap of trouble.

):

#44 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 8,353 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:19

Its ridiculous. Lewis wrongly let back Trulli past but saying Lewis did it on purpose to get Trulli penalised is silly. He had nothing to gain from it. The cars finished in that order. If Lewis wanted to pull a fast one so bad he would have just kept third and seen what happened. Between him and McLaren though they should have known he was entitled to keep his place after passing Jarno when he went off. I did.

#45 bobqzzi

bobqzzi
  • Member

  • 360 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:22

It seems that there needs to be a distinction made between an actual pass made under a yellow flag when the cars are at speed, and this kind of odd slow speed ballet where neither driver knows exactly what to do.

Clearly, niether driver was trying to unfairly pass anyone and it was just a matter of sorting it out which the stewards could have done after the race. A DQ is completely uncalled for for either driver, they just need to decide who gets 3rd and who gets 4th.

#46 Menace

Menace
  • Member

  • 12,390 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:22

Originally posted by SchumiBoy


Read the Adam Cooper article.

Before meeting the stewards Hamilton admits to letting Trulli back past.
Then Whitmarsh says that Trulli passed them under yellow and retook the position
Then Hamilton when meeting the stewards also says that it was all Trulli and agrees with Whitmarsh.
Then Haug puts in the last word by saying "Trulli had an off and Lewis overtook him for third place, but he let Trulli past again" in the team statement


Thats pretty damning if you ask me. This will not bode well for Mclaren, I fear.

#47 SchumiBoy

SchumiBoy
  • Member

  • 1,261 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:23

Originally posted by bobqzzi
It seems that there needs to be a distinction made between an actual pass made under a yellow flag when the cars are at speed, and this kind of odd slow speed ballet where neither driver knows exactly what to do.

Clearly, niether driver was trying to unfairly pass anyone and it was just a matter of sorting it out which the stewards could have done after the race. A DQ is completely uncalled for for either driver, they just need to decide who gets 3rd and who gets 4th.


Hamilton gets 3. and Trulli 4. No question.

Then there is the issue of possibly deceiving the race officials, that's a different ballgame

#48 Zarathustra

Zarathustra
  • Member

  • 306 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:26

Originally posted by Tenmantaylor
Its ridiculous. Lewis wrongly let back Trulli past but saying Lewis did it on purpose to get Trulli penalised is silly. He had nothing to gain from it. The cars finished in that order. If Lewis wanted to pull a fast one so bad he would have just kept third and seen what happened. Between him and McLaren though they should have known he was entitled to keep his place after passing Jarno when he went off. I did.

I think they've had enough dubious penalties to want to be absolutely sure they're in the clear.

#49 Menace

Menace
  • Member

  • 12,390 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:29

Originally posted by ForeverF1
We know for a fact that Jarno threw it off the circuit and Lewis went past while he(Jarno) was off the circuit.

We know that Jarno passed (on circuit) Lewis to regain 3rd spot. Whether this was under instructions from either teams is still unclear, but, he should not have overtaken (on circuit) under yellow flags anyway.


1st point, correct.

2nd point, it surely seems that HAMILTON slowed down, not that Trulli overtook him. The telemetry will easily prove this. Combined with the (Mclaren)radio transmission not available originally to the stewards, all that needs to be known to judge this situation WILL be known by the stewards.

Hamilton/Mclaren will be penalised, that is my gut feeling. :(

#50 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,577 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:34

I can't help thinking that a cock up of this magnitude why it would not have been widely reported. :)