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make sure your delta is positive


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#1 djned

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 19:21

aside from the kerfuffle about hamilton's dq, can anyone explain the below mclaren team radio quote in plain english? delta? positive? safety car line?

OK Lewis, you should need to make sure your delta is positive over the safety car line. After the safety car line the delta doesn’t matter but no overtaking. No overtaking.



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#2 MichaelPM

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 19:26

A finite increment in a variable.

Are lap times under a safety car given a minimum and maximum this year?

#3 SevenTwoSeven

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 19:26

I guess it means 'get your foot down'? Delta usualy refers to speed or a speed increase as in 'Delta V' or 'they've given us too much delta v' a la Apollo 13.

But i might be wrong :drunk:

#4 Guizotia

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 19:27

delta usually means difference, not sure about the rest, maybe its about not breaking the 'time back to pits', just in case they needed to go in there at the last moment or something

#5 Dunder

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 19:32

Charlie Whiting's explaination of the new safety car rules:

“As soon as that message gets to the car, it’ll know where it is on the circuit, and it’ll calculate a minimum time for the driver to get back to the pits. The driver will have to respect this and the information will be displayed on his dashboard.

“If you remember, the reason we closed the pit entry was to remove the incentive for the driver to come back to his pit quickly. That’s gone now, as you won’t be able to reach the pits any quicker than your dashboard display allows you to.”

The Delta would be related to the minimum time under SC conditions.

#6 stevvy1986

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 19:34

yup, and given the + in front of quali times for example shows you're slower than the fastest time, delta positive likely means make sure you're slower than the minimum time to ensure you don't get penalised

#7 wdh

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 20:10

Rubens didn't seem to be watching his time display too closely.
At the final SC, I think it was the third time his engineer was telling him to ease off that Ross Brawn interrupted "Rubens! SLOW DOWN!" -- none of this 'delta' ronspeak.

#8 Gareth

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 20:13

It's the difference between Hamilton's lap time for the lap forming behind the SC and the target lap time mandated by the FIA, as shown on the dashboard. You must be on or slower than the mandated time, so you need the figure (or delta) on the dashboard to be positive at the point you finish that first lap. Once formed up, it no longer matters.

#9 alfa1

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 20:20

At the pit lane entrance, crossing both the pit lane and track, is a white line. The 'safety car line'.

When the safety car signal is sent to the cars, there is a calculated time, related to where the car is on the track, which means the car is not allowed to cross the safety car line before that time is up.

The onboard computer is continually updating the display for the driver, after taking into account the speed of the car, essentially answering the question of "Am I going to cross the line too soon?".
With a delta of zero, the driver will cross the line at the exact time allowed.
With a positive delta, the driver will cross the after they are allowed - ie: the time allowed PLUS a bit more.

#10 djned

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 03:48

thanks guys. wdh, you said it best! i was bamboozled by the ronspeak :)

#11 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 03:54

Originally posted by wdh
none of this 'delta' ronspeak.


Delta is ronspeak now? And I didn't even know that Dennis was a Greek name. :drunk:

#12 djned

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 04:02

i would say there's a lot of 'ronspeak' outside of mclaren though...it's an easy way of explaining the concept ;)

an example that really pisses me off is 'prime' and 'option' tyres. just call them soft and hard ffs.

#13 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 04:14

Delta is an engineering term. Does F1 really need to be dumbed down even more, and this was a team radio transmission. Delta = change or difference, positive = more than zero.

Prime and option are used as there are only a certain number of compounds and at some tracks the hard tyre maybe the soft at another. Therfore, it is easier for the teams and Bridgestone to refer to the tyres as prime and option.

This isn't ronspeak, it is racespeak. try reading a book about the sport or take some engineering classes, it might bring you up to speed.

#14 hunnylander

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 04:45

Originally posted by wdh
Rubens didn't seem to be watching his time display too closely.
At the final SC, I think it was the third time his engineer was telling him to ease off that Ross Brawn interrupted "Rubens! SLOW DOWN!" -- none of this 'delta' ronspeak.


This is not Ronspeak. This is Philspeak, the speak of the world champion race engineer, Phil Prew. :)

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#15 rolf123

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 04:57

Originally posted by djned
i would say there's a lot of 'ronspeak' outside of mclaren though...it's an easy way of explaining the concept ;)

an example that really pisses me off is 'prime' and 'option' tyres. just call them soft and hard ffs.


Yeah tell me about it, that is the worst terminology. Even if you want to be more specific, call them As, Bs, Cs or Ds.

Don't even get started on the wet weather tyres......

drys, wets, inters. What's wrong with that?

btw cool avatar where did you get that from? (Prost?)

#16 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 05:02

Originally posted by rolf123


Yeah tell me about it, that is the worst terminology. Even if you want to be more specific, call them As, Bs, Cs or Ds.

Don't even get started on the wet weather tyres......

drys, wets, inters. What's wrong with that?

btw cool avatar where did you get that from? (Prost?)


Well it's true that it takes a certain level of intellect to understand the terminology :rolleyes:

#17 TickTickBooom

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 05:06

Originally posted by senna da silva


Well it's true that it takes a certain level of intellect to understand the terminology, and I certainly wouldn't expect Prost fans to understand. :rolleyes: GDFI

You're on fire tonight, what with all the flaming you're doing.

#18 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 05:14

Originally posted by TickTickBooom

You're on fire tonight, what with all the flaming you're doing.


I'm tired of my favourite sport being ruined by morons.

#19 TickTickBooom

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 05:17

Originally posted by senna da silva


I'm tired of my favourite sport being ruined by morons.

So am I. But I'm not talking about the FIA.

McLaren, and Lewis, have done more to bring the sport into disrepute in the past couple of years than the FIA have in the past 10. And I'm sick of the fanboys defending their every action when even someone who's only had four hours sleep in the past six days can see that they were BLATANTLY in the wrong.

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#20 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 05:20

Originally posted by TickTickBooom

So am I. But I'm not talking about the FIA.

McLaren, and Lewis, have done more to bring the sport into disrepute in the past couple of years than the FIA have in the past 10. And I'm sick of the fanboys defending their every action when even someone who's only had four hours sleep in the past six days can see that they were BLATANTLY in the wrong.


Pray tell, what has Lewis done to bring the sport into disrepute?

You have kids as well. :rotfl:

#21 P1McLarenMercedes

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 05:21

Originally posted by TickTickBooom

when even someone who's only had four hours sleep in the past six days

well if people didnt question your opinion before they certainly will now.

#22 vmk

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 05:53

Originally posted by senna da silva
Delta is an engineering term. Does F1 really need to be dumbed down even more, and this was a team radio transmission. Delta = change or difference, positive = more than zero.

Prime and option are used as there are only a certain number of compounds and at some tracks the hard tyre maybe the soft at another. Therfore, it is easier for the teams and Bridgestone to refer to the tyres as prime and option.

This isn't ronspeak, it is racespeak. try reading a book about the sport or take some engineering classes, it might bring you up to speed.


still bitter about bruno?

#23 djned

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 06:54

Originally posted by senna da silva
GDFI


wow. just...wow.

@rolf: yes, it is prost's helmet...can't remember where i got it as i've had the avatar as long as i've been posting here, which is a while :) i'm sure google images would help you out.

#24 TickTickBooom

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 06:58

Originally posted by P1McLarenMercedes

well if people didnt question your opinion before they certainly will now.

Question away, but I'm in the majority here. What he did was utterly reprehensible behaviour from THE WORLD CHAMPION. No wonder the sport's being dragged through the mud again.

After all of the positive press articles on Monday after Jenson's win, we're back to the controversy with Hamilton on the back pages.

I know some of you guys idolise him, but I just don't get how you can't see what he did wrong.

ETA: And with a name like that, I think most people would question your opinions. On this subject at least.

#25 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 14:21

A definite black mark on Lewis, he will have to be exemplery from here on out as this will always crop up for him throughout his career now. This whole situation from beginning to end was handled amateurishly by all parties involved.

Again, I'm tired of my favourite sport being ruined by morons.

My apologies to all for my curt tone earlier.