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Is it time for Hamilton to consider leaving McLaren?


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#1 pacwest

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:22

Not due to to pace, but due to perceptions, the FIA, the whole fiasco that has now turned into F1 stewardship.

Would McLaren and Heikki be better off parting ways? Would Hamilton benefit as well?

I'm starting to believe the conspiracy crap on here now. The stewards and FIA seem to have an extra large magnifying glass that's painted orange and chrome. Was a 100 million fine not enough? Even convicted felons have "served their time" and get a second chance at reintegration.

As a supporter of both McLaren and Hamilton (among other teams as well...), I believe the time has come for Lou n' Pops to consider the end of the relationship and shop. 2010 or 2011 at team XXXXX might be a smart option.

.......and forget contracts, we all know those don't mean piss all.

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#2 christoff

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:30

I am the sig

Anyone for a cuppa?

#3 pingu666

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:34

suppose he could goto ferrari and have a much easier time of it

think i predicted awhile ago all this hassle would make him leave f1 sooner than would be normal

#4 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:35

Lets see, Lewis lied to the stewards and he should drop McLaren? The team that took him as a rookie and treated him the same as a 2xwdc and almost got him the title? The team that gave him the title in his second year? And his involvement with the team is damaging *his* reputation?

No one had a gun to his head, he could have told the truth!

#5 christoff

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:37

Originally posted by christoff
I am the sig

Anyone for a cuppa?


Could do with a 'T'
:lol:

#6 pacwest

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:37

I think that in racing and in business when someone asks you a question you answer the question. He answered the question. Radio transmissions are public domain and he knows that. Leave that for another thread.


So BACK ON TOPIC, should he consider leaving the team to reduce unwarranted heat on him?

#7 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:41

Originally posted by pacwest

So BACK ON TOPIC, should he consider leaving the team to reduce unwarranted heat on him?


Why should he leave the team when he brought the heat upon himself?

#8 mkay

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:43

I guess yes. Ferrari would seem like a good destination.

Hamilton and Massa in 2010. Not a bad combination.

#9 gincarnated

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:45

I think it would be better for McLaren to leave F1 and complete take a stab at some different motor sports.

#10 pacwest

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:49

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Why should he leave the team when he brought the heat upon himself?


We stand at opposite sides of the fence I see. He lodged no complaint, he let trulli pass. He answered the question before him. He's guilty of answering the question asked of him and racing hard. I see nothing wrong in holding your cards close in racing.

Young guy, out on the town. Kisses some girl he fancies while at the pub. A friend of his girlfriend sees him chumming her up but not kissing her. Girlfriend confronts him and says "Did you sleep with her?" He answers no truthfully.

What the stewards are guilty of is applying logic to a non-logical question. He told the truth to their question.

Maybe McLaren should just print out a sticker on the side of their car with race fuel, strategy, what lap they will pit on etc. so everyone will know. Ask a question, answer it. He did. They asked him the wrong question and applied the answer to what they REALLY wanted to know. He's guilty of nothing except racing.

#11 SchumiBoy

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:51

Originally posted by pacwest


We stand at opposite sides of the fence I see. He lodged no complaint, he let trulli pass. He answered the question before him. He's guilty of answering the question asked of him and racing hard. I see nothing wrong in holding your cards close in racing.

Young guy, out on the town. Kisses some girl he fancies while at the pub. A friend of his girlfriend sees him chumming her up but not kissing her. Girlfriend confronts him and says "Did you sleep with her?" He answers no truthfully.

What the stewards are guilty of is applying logic to a non-logical question. He told the truth to their question.

Maybe McLaren should just print out a sticker on the side of their car with race fuel, strategy, what lap they will pit on etc. so everyone will know. Ask a question, answer it. He did. They asked him the wrong question and applied the answer to what they REALLY wanted to know. He's guilty of nothing except racing.


What question did they ask that was so wrong ?
What should they have asked instead ?

#12 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:51

Originally posted by pacwest


We stand at opposite sides of the fence I see. He lodged no complaint, he let trulli pass. He answered the question before him. He's guilty of answering the question asked of him and racing hard. I see nothing wrong in holding your cards close in racing.

Young guy, out on the town. Kisses some girl he fancies while at the pub. A friend of his girlfriend sees him chumming her up but not kissing her. Girlfriend confronts him and says "Did you sleep with her?" He answers no truthfully.

What the stewards are guilty of is applying logic to a non-logical question. He told the truth to their question.

Maybe McLaren should just print out a sticker on the side of their car with race fuel, strategy, what lap they will pit on etc. so everyone will know. Ask a question, answer it. He did. They asked him the wrong question and applied the answer to what they REALLY wanted to know. He's guilty of nothing except racing.


whatever lets you sleep at night.

#13 pacwest

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 21:54

I sleep just fine.

I sleep better when people stick on topic and leave the discussion of another topic in that freaking thread.

You still didn't even bother answering the topic....

#14 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 22:03

Originally posted by pacwest
I sleep just fine.

I sleep better when people stick on topic and leave the discussion of another topic in that freaking thread.

You still didn't even bother answering the topic....


Is it time for Hamilton to consider leaving McLaren?

No. It would be a cheek to think they are damaging his reputation when he is the one telling lies to the stewards!

Simple enough to understand now?

#15 Coral

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 22:15

Yes, Lewis should definitely leave McLaren. He should go to whichever team will have him. Ferrari would be great...can you imagine Lewis in a red car? I think that would guarantee no more penalties...and plenty WDCs. But if not Ferrari, then Williams, Toro Rosso, or even Force India would be fine. Lewis would then be free to show that he is the class of the field, without the threat of the interminable penalties. Lewis needs to stop letting his heart rule his head when it comes to McLaren. Face it, they are the FIA's whipping boys and Lewis does not need this when he has WDCs to win. He should indeed get away from McLaren as fast as his legs can carry him.

#16 pingu666

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 22:40

if lewis left f1 now, what would he be missing?
got home gp win, monaco win, and a wdc, what unfinished business is there for him in f1 now?

if he say went to america, and teamed up with robby gordon and his team, what could he do?
nascar (probably all 3 major types) a limited IRL schedual. and can u imagine him turning down a trophy truck? so theres baja 1000/500 in there. and during the winter break, why not do the dakar in a hummer?

might even have a chance to race at the big ALMS/LMS events as a 3rd driver too...

#17 MichaelPM

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 22:47

Yea just what Hamiltons reputation of, a selfish anything goes as long as I benefit from it, kinda driver needs to add abandoning a team who made sure he had the best seats in every series for the past 12 years(? now) and gave him preferential treatment in F1 without giving them anything but a marketing tool. Backstabbing is one thing when the team supports it, backstabbing the team you owe everything to is lower then low.

McLaren and Lewis deserve each other while the fans deserve to be stuck talking so much bull during the lows and not just the highs.

#18 undersquare

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 22:53

Originally posted by MichaelPM
Yea just what Hamiltons reputation of, a selfish anything goes as long as I benefit from it, kinda driver needs to add abandoning a team who made sure he had the best seats in every series for the past 12 years(? now) and gave him preferential treatment in F1 without giving them anything but a marketing tool. Backstabbing is one thing when the team supports it, backstabbing the team you owe everything to is lower then low.

McLaren and Lewis deserve each other while the fans deserve to be stuck talking so much bull during the lows and not just the highs.


I think you missed the fact that Lewis has not actually tried to leave McLaren, it's just a forum topic ;)

#19 trenchcoat

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 22:56

Hamilton needs to go to Williams. He threatened to go to Williams years go when he fell out with McLaren. If only he had gone. I'm a McLaren fan but i am fed uit p of the team. I am not saying its their fault all the time but I could do with a team like Williams and so could Lewis. As for McLaren its time for them to quit F1

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#20 undersquare

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 23:06

A large part of Hamilton's problem is that he's tied to Ron, hence the Neverending Vengeance of Max.

And I'd bet he said what the team told him to say to the stewards, and that Anthony is pretty pissed off about that.

I'd like to see him toast Fernando, myself, at Ferrari :lol:

And see LdM do the expert management he was boasting about that would stop them falling out :rotfl: .



No being serious, he just belongs at McLaren, he won't leave unless they're uncompetitive 2 years in a row.

#21 pingu666

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 23:19

i think he belongs in macca, only other team where he would seem to fit, AND be a benifit to him, would be ferrari, no penalties, or atleast way less :D

what other series are merc racing in currently? DTM, guess some trucks

#22 Mpower

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 23:33

has it been verified that Hamilton took it upon himself without the instruction of the team to lie?


To Answer the question...Hamilton should join Ferrari as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Otherwise, he should stay put.

#23 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 00:39

It doesn't matter where Lewis goes as the FIA will always pick on him.

It's all part of Max's KF1W campaign.

#24 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 01:59

He should get out of McLaren before his reputation is even more severely tarnished. The people he is working with are morally corrupt. Ron Dennis - liar, Martin Whitmarsh - liar and cheat, design engineers - proven criminals and fined $200k each, the McLaren team - fined $100M for cheating. Lewis is still young, if he can get himself into a good atmosphere maybe he can rebuild his reputation and forget about these stupid dishonest stunts.

#25 bankoq

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 02:00

Why should Hamilton leave McLaren? They are a good prospect of good car in the future, and that's all that matters if you want to win races.

#26 john ruston

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 02:23

The question is should Mercedes stick with Mclaren due to the continued bad publicity.

If they go Hamilton goes and that answers the question.

If anything they were fibs and trying to hide a bit of info ,its not the end of the world and 10 grid places would have been a much better penalty as Trulli managed to run of road under yellow so he was abit of a div

#27 osj

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 02:38

It doesn't matter whether he stays or goes...Lewis needs to change his own attitude.

#28 AyePirate

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 02:38

Originally posted by pacwest
Not due to to pace, but due to perceptions, the FIA, the whole fiasco that has now turned into F1 stewardship.

Would McLaren and Heikki be better off parting ways? Would Hamilton benefit as well?

I'm starting to believe the conspiracy crap on here now. The stewards and FIA seem to have an extra large magnifying glass that's painted orange and chrome. Was a 100 million fine not enough? Even convicted felons have "served their time" and get a second chance at reintegration.

As a supporter of both McLaren and Hamilton (among other teams as well...), I believe the time has come for Lou n' Pops to consider the end of the relationship and shop. 2010 or 2011 at team XXXXX might be a smart option.

.......and forget contracts, we all know those don't mean piss all.



Maybe .....but then again when Max was Hamilton's age he was spray painting KBW on walls in Notting Hill.

#29 krapmeister

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 02:41

Did they have spray cans back then?

#30 AyePirate

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 02:53

Originally posted by krapmeister
Did they have spray cans back then?


Spray paint was invented in the 40's. Max's career as a graffiti artist was late 50' to early 60's.

Encouraged by the riots, and the Teds’ support, the fascist leader Oswald Mosley made his last comeback attempt, standing as the Union Movement candidate for North Kensington in the 1959 election. In Trevor Grundy’s ‘Memoir of A Fascist Childhood’ hundreds of Teds followed the Leader to his street meetings. Mosley’s sons Alex and Max (the future Formula 1 motor racing leader) canvassed among them, posing for the Daily Mirror as actual upper-class Teds. As the Mosley Youth leader, Grundy fought a losing battle for the hearts and minds of the Teds, with Elvis. ‘The Wizard’ pimp/fascist character, representing ‘the dark side of the teenage dream’ in ‘Absolute Beginners’, was based on youths who told the press: “So a darkie gets chivved, why all the fuss?… Come back tomorrow night, mister, for the next instalment.” Whereas the first and worst local graffiti, ‘Keep Britain White’; initialised as ‘KBW’, and accompanied by Mosley's flash and circle symbol; was by fascist youths like Grundy and Max Mosley, not local Teds. .



http://www.portobell...lk-vague01.html

#31 Guizotia

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 06:33

I think he needs to grow out of being a complete McLaren man, and grow into being more his own man.

It's a difficult transition, he's still young but he needs to learn to steer his team's decisions more. Maybe that is not possible within the McLaren structure.

#32 Man of the race

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:07

You bet he should. He "deserves" a new seat as much as he "deserved" that third place.

#33 chrcoluk

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:23

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Is it time for Hamilton to consider leaving McLaren?

No. It would be a cheek to think they are damaging his reputation when he is the one telling lies to the stewards!

Simple enough to understand now?


After this farce I can see it very bright that the FIA have it in for mclaren. There was a precedent set and it was broken, the precedent been the FIA dont overule stewards, and certianly reopen something after an appeal is withdrawn.

So yes hamilton would be better to join a different team.

Incidently there was hamilton and another mclaren rep at the hearing and no transcript released, is it just conveniant to blame hamilton for the race exclusion?

#34 SchumiBoy

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:29

Originally posted by chrcoluk


After this farce I can see it very bright that the FIA have it in for mclaren. There was a precedent set and it was broken, the precedent been the FIA dont overule stewards, and certianly reopen something after an appeal is withdrawn.

So yes hamilton would be better to join a different team.

Incidently there was hamilton and another mclaren rep at the hearing and no transcript released, is it just conveniant to blame hamilton for the race exclusion?


The FIA didn't overrule Stewards. The Stewards themselves used a power at their disposal to reinvestigate an issue if new evidence comes to light.

I don't see how McLaren fans can defend this one, McLaren put the blame on Trulli who ended up going from 3rd to last. And Hamilton and McLaren were just happy about it because they felt that 3rd place "belonged" to them.

#35 Tomerell

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:43

Why he should leave? This is McLaren's first bad year on his career in F1, he always have had the best car to shine in. Now he should show what he can do when things are not that ideal around. Not looking good so far... :(

#36 undersquare

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:45

Originally posted by SchumiBoy


I don't see how McLaren fans can defend this one, McLaren put the blame on Trulli who ended up going from 3rd to last. And Hamilton and McLaren were just happy about it because they felt that 3rd place "belonged" to them.


You must be deliberately avoiding all the many threads where this is the topic, then ;)

#37 stevewf1

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 08:46

Maybe a better question would be "Is it time for McLaren to leave F1"?

#38 anthony says

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 11:33

I think Pacwest has a good point, but we can't know for certain because we don't (I think) yet know why they did that ridiculous thing. There seems to be two possibilities:

1. they thought 'let's get our third place back by getting Jarno disqualified' - but LH had already given an interview saying he had let JT past and Haug also confirmed that he let JT past. They never tried to conceal that they let JT past, so that seems completely implausible.

2. they thought 'we'd better deny letting him past because we might get ourselves disqualified for not driving steadily behind the SC' - that sounds slightly more plausible to me, although still no chance of ever getting away with it for long.

Either way, I think it is right that Hamilton would be better off at Ferrari. The decision by the McLaren team (Ryan?) to let Trulli through was wrong in the first place and simply reflected the paranoia within the team about FIA unfairness towards them. I'm not saying they don't have any justification for that paranoia, but they need to move on. They don't need people like Ryan if this is the way he sees things.

We don't know why Hamilton lied, but if he had intended all along to deny letting Trulli through, why did he tell the press that he did let him through? Sounds more like it was Ryan's idea. Hamilton should just drive and stay out of politics. That's more likely to happen at Ferrari.

#39 se7en_24

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 11:36

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Is it time for Hamilton to consider leaving McLaren?

No. It would be a cheek to think they are damaging his reputation when he is the one telling lies to the stewards!

Simple enough to understand now?

Now you've actually got the evidence in front of you would you like to retract your comments? :)

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#40 VoidNT

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 11:44

If I was told by my boss to tell a lie and then get caught, and this boss stays in the team after such a managerial misjudgement, I would have no trust in such a team anymore and would certainly leave.

If the story was made not by Ryan but Whitmarsh, and Whitsmarsh stays, Hamilton has to consider leaving.

#41 fed up

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 11:57

Originally posted by anthony says

2. they thought 'we'd better deny letting him past because we might get ourselves disqualified for not driving steadily behind the SC' - that sounds slightly more plausible to me, although still no chance of ever getting away with it for long.

[/B]


This seems very plausible to me and, perhaps is why transcripts of the meeting are not forthcoming.

#42 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 12:35

Originally posted by se7en_24

Now you've actually got the evidence in front of you would you like to retract your comments? :)


wtf for? The facts stand - Lewis lied to the stewards!

#43 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 12:37

Once again McLaren spin the story to fit after the fact and everyone buys it and lives happily ever after.

#44 w00dy

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 12:38

Heikki should leave.

But Lewis and Mclaren belong together. Liars keep cheaters good company.

#45 se7en_24

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 14:00

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


wtf for? The facts stand - Lewis lied to the stewards!

We know that, that wasn't what the thread was about - nice bit of side stepping though.

#46 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 14:16

Where is the side stepping?

Lets see, Lewis and Ryan lied to the Stewards. Ryan has been suspended for telling Lewis to lie. If that is indeed the truth, is it not odd that Lewis did not feel the need to tell anyone else in the team what transpired, he is after all a team player? The team has taken no action against Lewis, in fact by suspending Ryan they have effectively stopped any further action against Lewis.

Yet because I still feel that it would be a slap in the face to McLaren for Lewis to want to leave them over this after what they have done for him and have done in this affair, effectively destroying Ryan in order to protect Lewis and McLaren. You want me to retract my statements.

I still feel Lewis brought this on himself, at any stage he didn't have to go through with it. McLaren have stood by him and built him up to what he is today.

#47 AyePirate

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:31

Every driver worth his salt at least considers driving for Ferrari

#48 Rosemayer

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:03

Originally posted by Coral
Yes, Lewis should definitely leave McLaren. He should go to whichever team will have him. Ferrari would be great...can you imagine Lewis in a red car? I think that would guarantee no more penalties...and plenty WDCs. But if not Ferrari, then Williams, Toro Rosso, or even Force India would be fine. Lewis would then be free to show that he is the class of the field, without the threat of the interminable penalties. Lewis needs to stop letting his heart rule his head when it comes to McLaren. Face it, they are the FIA's whipping boys and Lewis does not need this when he has WDCs to win. He should indeed get away from McLaren as fast as his legs can carry him.


How about DTM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#49 HP

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:35

Originally posted by chrcoluk


After this farce I can see it very bright that the FIA have it in for mclaren. There was a precedent set and it was broken, the precedent been the FIA dont overule stewards, and certianly reopen something after an appeal is withdrawn.

Firstly it was within the rules since new evidence surfaced. The regulations allow for reopening of a case.

Secondly there is the thing with Renaults TMD, and then of course spygate itself, where the FiA wanted to close the case, but then Ferrari presented new evidence in form of Email logs, and they reopened the case. So there are precedents.


Also initially I was of the opinion the FiA should have held their hands completely out of this situation, since Trulli and Hamilton appeared to have sorted things out between them.

However, after I heard the radio transmission and read the transcript it dawned on me that both teams said that they got in touch with race control about this incident. So the stewards had no choice then to investigate this case.


Should Hamilton stay? Though call really. And it hasn't got anything to do with the FiA.

#50 pingu666

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 20:16

and race control was too "busy" to sort it out...