208 replies to this topic

[Aitchjay]

I note that the good Mr Hamilton apologises to everyone - except the person who suffered most in this nasty little affair - namely Jarno Trulli

[trenchcoat]

Originally posted by Aitchjay
I note that the good Mr Hamilton apologises to everyone - except the person who suffered most in this nasty little affair - namely Jarno Trulli

And how do you know he has not spoken to Trulli considering they would bumped into one another numerous times today?

[Lopek]

Because he said he has not:
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74203

Q. Have you apologised to Jarno, and was it you who pressured the team to sack Ryan [who has been suspended]? LH: That second part of the question is nothing to do with me. Dave is a great guy and he has worked with the team for many years. He is feeling it just as much as the whole team. I haven't had the chance to speak to Jarno. I did actually see him before we went into the meeting and I said sorry for the situation. But…

[Aitchjay]

Originally posted by trenchcoat




And how do you know he has not spoken to Trulli considering they would bumped into one another numerous times today?

I don't but I certainly think a PUBLIC apology was the very least he could do. He lied, then sat back whilst Trulli, a fellow driver let us not forget, was penalised. An utter disgrace.

[trenchcoat]

Originally posted by Aitchjay


I don't but I certainly think a PUBLIC apology was the very least he could do. He lied, then sat back whilst Trulli, a fellow driver let us not forget, was penalised. An utter disgrace.

This makes no sense I think Trulli would apreciate it if Lewis cam up to his face and said sorry rather than say it to the camera.

[Oblivion]

Why the F*** he should apologise to Trully? Trully overtakes kim under a SC which is forbidden.

[Lopek]

Originally posted by trenchcoat
This makes no sense I think Trulli would apreciate it if Lewis cam up to his face and said sorry rather than say it to the camera.

If it were me I would prefer both... but as quoted above, he has done neither.

[Lopek]

Originally posted by Oblivion
Why the F*** he should apologise to Trully? Trully overtakes kim under a SC which is forbidden.

Because he lied to try and get Trulli penalised when Trulli did nothing wrong - he overtook a significantly slowing car.

[tifosi]

Originally posted by Oblivion
Why the F*** he should apologise to Trully? Trully overtakes kim under a SC which is forbidden.

For that matter Hamilton passed Trully under a SC which is forbiddes. Oh, wait there are ceratin circumstances where you may overtake under yeallow, isn't there???

[kar]

I said sorry for the situation. But…

There's always a but with any apology from Lewis, isn't there.

[alfa1]

Originally posted by Aitchjay
I note that the good Mr Hamilton apologises to everyone - except the person who suffered most in this nasty little affair - namely Jarno Trulli

Cool. A Hamilton bashing thread.
Havnt had one of those in a while.


Seriously though, I think it was a decision made in panic.
Hamilton found himself in from of Trulli, and were terrified they'd get a penalty for it.
He was asked to let Trulli go back (and he would have done it by himself anyway) and were then terrified that they'd get a penalty for it.
So they fudged their argument to make it sound better, and probably spent 4 days terrified that they'd be found out and get a penalty for it.

[GhostR]

Originally posted by Lopek
Because he said he has not:
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74203

re-read what you quoted. He said he hasn't had a chance to talk to Trulli, but that he has said sorry for the situation. So: no full apology yet, but he has already indicated to Trulli that he's sorry.

[trenchcoat]

Originally posted by GhostR


re-read what you quoted. He said he hasn't had a chance to talk to Trulli, but that he has said sorry for the situation. So: no full apology yet, but he has already indicated to Trulli that he's sorry.

Thats because some people in their hurry to cast the first stone are so blinded they cant even see the truth

[Lopek]

Originally posted by GhostR


re-read what you quoted. He said he hasn't had a chance to talk to Trulli, but that he has said sorry for the situation. So: no full apology yet, but he has already indicated to Trulli that he's sorry.

Sorry for the situation - not for lying about the situation. Big difference.

I am sure all of McLaren the situation arose also - particularly the part of the situation where the got caught.

[stevvy1986]

Originally posted by Oblivion
Why the F*** he should apologise to Trully? Trully overtakes kim under a SC which is forbidden.

simple-if they'd been totally honest in the first place, trulli likely wouldn't have received a penalty-as it was, he did get a penalty, lost his points, lost his trophy, because hamilton/ryan weren't absolutely clear and totally honest about what happened

[Oblivion]

Trully overtook Hamilton under SC. And Lewis wasn't slowing "with an obvious problem".

[Aitchjay]

Originally posted by Oblivion
Why the F*** he should apologise to Trully? Trully overtakes kim under a SC which is forbidden.

Are you living on another planet?

Have you not yet understood that McLaren have admitted to instructing Hamilton to let Trulli by, and Hamilton has admitted to obeying that instruction, something which they originally both LIED about to the Stewards and Race Director when asked the direct question.

[windoesnot]

Lets try and put some of this into perspective (and im awaiting flaming from the anti-Hamilton brigade for this, even though I wouldnt call myself a big Hamilton fan):

What Lewis and McLaren (in the guise of Dave Ryan) did was wrong, they were not honest with the stewards and they have been rightly punished. Lewis has held a press conference before the world media which cant of been easy to do and has publically apologised. To me it looked truthful and sinceer (although obviously there are those who look into such things far too much).

Lewis Hamilton is 24 years old, 24 years old, thats not a whole lot of experience in the university of life is it. Theres probably quite a few people on these boards that are that age or older (although sadly some manage to allow their 'net age' to come long before their actual age).

Now imagine you are at work and one of your seniors asked you to do something that wasnt right (this is in the assumption that this is indeed what happened). Would you do it? If your own boss or someone higher up with great influence pressured you into doing something, would you do it?

I can honestly say that during my working career I (and im sure many others) have been put in such a situation comparible and have done the same as Lewis. Did I regret it? Yes, not everyone wants to be dishonest for the benefit of someone else. However thats how things go in life sometimes.

Heres another situation. Seb Vettel. He very publicaly took the blame for the accident between him and Kubica which the majority seem to agree that was a racing accident, no one could have the majority of the blame apportioned to them. However because of his honesty, Vettel has been handed a grid penalty. Vettel has been praised for being honest about this. However had he not have said anything, would he have gotten such a penalty? Therefore does this encourage honesty? And im not saying that this event has anything to do with what Lewis and Dave Ryan have done.

[w00dy]

Matt Bishop wrote a good apology. Lewis rehearsed it all night, it was impressively acted.

[Scaramanga]

Originally posted by Oblivion
Why the F*** he should apologise to Trully? Trully overtakes kim under a SC which is forbidden.

Oblivious

Originally posted by Aitchjay
I note that the good Mr Hamilton apologises to everyone - except the person who suffered most in this nasty little affair - namely Jarno Trulli

Its funny to contrast reaction from when Trulli was penalized and when Hamilton was. There was no fuss when Trulli was proclaiming his innocence, no accusations of FIA unfairness, Toyota humbly rescinded their appeal. By consequence, both Trulli's and Hamilton's penalization are the same, both got no points for the race. Hamilton has gotten no worse then what he inflicted on Trulli.

Yet it tuns out one lied about it, and the other was unfairly accused. Yet only when the right is vindicated, and the wrong exposed, do the accusations of FIA bias become voiced.

I still believe SpA was a travesty, and the FIA unjust, but nobody should be defending what happened. There is something inescapably rotten here.

[stevvy1986]

Originally posted by Oblivion
Trully overtook Hamilton under SC. And Lewis wasn't slowing "with an obvious problem".

You obviously don't understand the situation. It's quite simple really, and has been explained many many times, as to why Trulli would have been unlikely to have got a penalty had McLaren and Lewis been 100% clear and honest about what happened in the first place.

[RobH]

I don't know what more people expected him to say to be honest.

[BMW_F1]

I accept his apology - he should now go and apologize to Trulli.

[windoesnot]

Mind you what is quite funny is there is a guy who works at my office called Dave Ryan.

Hes being asked a lot today if he's being completely honest with everyone here

[w00dy]

Originally posted by RobH
I don't know what more people expected him to say to be honest.

I expected him to resign. This "Befehl ist Befehl" thing is just so lame.

If they took this senior member is responsible thing seriously, they should have fired Ron and Martin for the spygate, not Mike.

I understand, they can't fire Hamilton over this because he is WDC, but they should.

[BMW_F1]

Originally posted by Scaramanga


Its funny to contrast reaction from when Trulli was penalized and when Hamilton was. There was no fuss when Trulli was proclaiming his innocence, no accusations of FIA unfairness, Toyota humbly rescinded their appeal. By consequence, both Trulli's and Hamilton's penalization are the same, both got no points for the race. Hamilton has gotten no worse then what he inflicted on Trulli.

Yet it tuns out one lied about it, and the other was unfairly accused. Yet only when the right is vindicated, and the wrong exposed, do the accusations of FIA bias become voiced.

I still believe SpA was a travesty, and the FIA unjust, but nobody should be defending what happened. There is something inescapably rotten here.

I could not agree more.

[RobH]

Originally posted by w00dy


I expected him to resign.

I understand, they can't fire Hamilton over this because he is WDC, but they should.

Stop trolling.

[inaki]

Originally posted by Oblivion
Why the F*** he should apologise to Trully? Trully overtakes kim under a SC which is forbidden.

Because Hamilton lied intentionally and changed his version of the facts with the only idea of gaining a podium and did not care at all about consequences (Toyota got a 25 seconds penalty and got out of points) obtained with such a dirty trick.

[gincarnated]

God I hate that he has to apologize. Real men just get on with it. God I wish Montoya was still in F1. Did Michael ever apologize after his nonsense? Hamilton is a media whore. Obviously it's good for him but there's not a single interesting person in F1.

[Oblivion]

Originally posted by stevvy1986


You obviously don't understand the situation.

Maybe. But I do understand the regulations. Trully should not overtake Hamilton. Even if Lewis was ordered to let Trully pass.

[whitewaterMkII]

I believe Lewis is just as culpable as Dave Ryan.
When your boss tells you jump off a bridge, a sentient human will refuse. Lewis knew full well that he had already told the press a different story than he was about to tell the stewards, either he is extremely stupid to go through with it or extremely foolish to think he could get away with lying.
Either way, he flat out lied, and it doesn't matter one whit to pull out the 'Bosses told me to' bullshit, a lie is a lie.
If Lewis can get off with an apology, undoubtably a well coached one, why not Ryan as well?
Whenever there is a bus coming, it seems that McClaren always has someone handy to throw under it, in this case it was Ryan, to protect the golden boy. If Whitmarsh had any integrity, he would have suspended both of the liars, not just one of them.

The corporate structure there must suck to have so many issues with honesty in such a short time period.

[tormave]

Originally posted by RobH
I don't know what more people expected him to say to be honest.

My impression when reading the "Apology" interview was that
1. McLaren has decided on the fall guy and suspended him - whether what happened was his idea has nothing to do with who was suspended
2. Hamilton did a very good job on directing all the blame in that direction

I fully realize this is how corporate PR works, but it would have been refreshing to see something that appeared more genuine and less spin-doctored.

[Gilles4Ever]

"I went into the meeting, I had no intention of...I just wanted to tell the story and say what happened. I was misled and that is the way it went. I would like to say a big sorry to all my fans who have believed in me, who have supported me for years, who I showed who I am for the past three years, and it is who I am. I am not a liar. I am not a dishonest person. I am a team player .

"Every time I have been informed to do something I have done it . This time I realise it was a huge mistake and I am learning from it. It has taken a huge toll on me. I apologise to you guys, I didn't speak to you yesterday, but there was a lot to take in and a lot to deal with. I am here to apologise to everyone and I assure you it won't happen again."

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74202

Rewind, Hungary 2007

"That was the only problem the team had. Ron's anger was because he (Hamilton) didn't accept an order that the team repeated several times over the first lap.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/61366

Dennis said: "They were out of sequence because Lewis should have slowed and let Fernando past. And he didn't. He charged off. That's how we got out of sequence.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/61368

[stevvy1986]

Originally posted by Oblivion


Maybe. But I do understand the regulations. Trully should not overtake Hamilton. Even if Lewis was ordered to let Trully pass.

And he wouldn't have passed him, had Hamilton stayed on the normal line and at a normal pace, which he didn't do, because he was ordered to let Trulli past. Hence why Trulli wouldn't have got a penalty had they told the whole truth in the first place. What would you have suggested Trulli do had Hamilton slowed down another 30mph? Crawl? Trulli wouldn't have got a penalty had they been honest in the first place.

[klyster]

Originally posted by gincarnated
Obviously it's good for him but there's not a single interesting person in F1.

I whole-heartedly agree with the first part of your post, but just to nitpick for a moment, count the threads related to Lewis in the Race Comments list.

Compare them to a driver like....say...well, any other driver really.

Surely this doesn't stem from disinterest?

The guy just seems to attract comments and interest, whether from fans, like myself, or people who don't like him, and those who are indifferent.

Anyway, not a personal stab at you, just an observation ;)

[Beamer]

Originally posted by Oblivion


Maybe. But I do understand the regulations. Trully should not overtake Hamilton. Even if Lewis was ordered to let Trully pass.

Euhhh.... Hamilton shouldn't have overtaken Trulli in the first place and Trulli overtook Hamilton because he slowed way down, thus rule 4.10 from regulations where in place:
All competing cars must then reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart and overtaking, with the following exceptions, is forbidden until the cars reach the Line after the safety car has returned to the pits. Overtaking will be permitted under the following circumstances :
[...]
if any car slows with an obvious problem.

If lewis slowed down that much, he probably breached the 10 car length rule (which is only like 40-50 meters, 1 or 2 seconds off the throttle already establishes that), thus leading Trulli to believe he must have a problem because a driver certainly doesn't breach regulations out of free will do they?

[metz]

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74202

Rewind, Hungary 2007


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/61366


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/61368

key is:
LH: I am not a liar. I am not a dishonest person. I am a team player.

Q: If you are a team player, will you follow orders in the future?

[MS7XWDC]

this somehow must be Ferrari's fault

[Beamer]

Originally posted by MS7XWDC
this somehow must be Ferrari's fault

Of course it is!!! Ferrari should have had a car good enough for a podium, and thus preventing LH be in that position to begin with.

[metz]

Originally posted by alfa1

So they fudged their argument to make it sound better, and probably spent 4 days terrified that they'd be found out and get a penalty for it.

They HAD to be found out, since the radio communications are recorded.
Dave Ryan should be fired for stupidity.

[Gilles4Ever]

Originally posted by metz

They HAD to be found out, since the radio communications are recorded.
Dave Ryan should be fired for stupidity.

Did no one at McLaren ask Lewis and Ryan what went down in the stewards meeting? If they did did they lie to them too? Wasn't there a 3rd McLaren person there?

[metz]

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Did no one at McLaren ask Lewis and Ryan what went down in the stewards meeting? If they did did they lie to them too? Wasn't there a 3rd McLaren person there?

Yes. Whitmarsh said, as far as he knows, the question (were you ordered to let him pass) was never asked by the stewards. Thus Hamilton and Ryan must have lied to Whitmarsh.

[kismet]

"Dave, Lewis, you're back from your meeting with the stewards, and I just heard Jarno copped a 25-second penalty. Well played. Do I want to know how that happened?"
"Not really, Martin. Might be better if you didn't."
"OK, then. Off you go."

Plausible deniability, I believe it's called.



As far as apologies go, while the one offered by Lewis may leave something to be desired in the sincerity department, I have to admit it beats such classics as "I apologise if I've done something to upset you" and the all-time #1 passive-aggressive masterpiece "Well, I'm sorry that you feel that way".

[otoelpiloto]

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74202

Rewind, Hungary 2007


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/61366


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/61368

can anyone stop such ac compulsive liar deceiving?

[senna da silva]

I'm hugely disappointed in the McLaren management and Lewis, I hope this is the end of it as I would hate for Lewis to turn into a win at all costs and do anything to acheive the goal "Schumacher".

How many of us would tow the line in the same situation. Your Director says to you before entering a meeting "follow my lead". What would you do?

Again, I'm sick of morons and moronic situations ruining my favourite sport.

[BrendanMcF]

Schumacher lied to the stewards when he parked his Ferrari during qualifying in Monaco. Justice was served, demoted to back of the grid.

Alonso lied to the stewards in Hungary in 2007, and was also penalised, but only 10 places on the grid.

Hamilton lied to the stewards in Australia, but he did so under the influence of a senior team member, one of his bosses. In this case he was disqualified from the race entirely.

Q: Which driver is the least trustworthy? And why?

[RoutariEnjinu]

This discussion is pointless.

He's now labelled as a compulsive liar (which is a very serious and real mental condition) after this isolated incident?

No usefull discussion or conclusions will be drawn from this thread, because anyone who tries is drowned out by anti-Hamiltons exaggerating and spinning things while slapping each others backs, and pro-Hamiltons in denial and licking each others wounds.

There is NOTHING Hamilton can do to please the anti crowd. If he doesn't meet the press to talk and appologise: he's being arrogant. If he does: He's just doing it for show.
I'm not particularly bothered by McLaren or Hamilton at the moment. I'm far more interested in what's going on with the mid-field and back-markers who've had a chance to shine, yet I feel compelled to play devils advocate and feel sorry for the guy. He's been a douche. No question, but so are MANY people on this forum in how THEY are spinning things, while at the same time sitting in their arm-chair, on a soap box saying how McLaren aren't honest and that it's all spin! It's hypocracy, and it's typical uneducated torch & pitchfork mob mentality.

The Hamilton fanboys are useless, but so are the people just as blind on the other side. This thread is swamped by both, which is why This discussion is pointless.

To end a sentence in 'but' DOESN'T mean there follows an excuse. This interpretation is confirmation bias from someone who's already made up their mind.

Because someone lied, DOESN'T mean they're a compulsive liar.

[Lontano]

Originally posted by metz

Yes. Whitmarsh said, as far as he knows, the question (were you ordered to let him pass) was never asked by the stewards. Thus Hamilton and Ryan must have lied to Whitmarsh.

the question is, why do we believe Whitmarsh? I can't see the sporting director and the lead driver of the team putting the team in such a risk without consulting it with him.

[blackgerby]

Originally posted by gincarnated
God I hate that he has to apologize. Real men just get on with it. God I wish Montoya was still in F1. Did Michael ever apologize after his nonsense? Hamilton is a media whore. Obviously it's good for him but there's not a single interesting person in F1.

Totally disagree, real men front up and apologise for their cockups and make sure they don't happen again.
Children pretend it never happened.

[otoelpiloto]

the question for me now would be whether he apologized if nothing came out to light...obviously the answer is NO...

another clear example of the so-called british double morality