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What is your opinion about Mclaren now II


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Poll: What is your opinion about Mclaren now II (214 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. was anti - still anti (69 votes [32.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.39%

  2. didn't mind them - now anti (19 votes [8.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.92%

  3. didn't mind them - still don't mind them (53 votes [24.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.88%

  4. was a fan - now I am not so sure /having second thoughts (12 votes [5.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.63%

  5. was a fan - now anti (8 votes [3.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.76%

  6. was a fan - always a fan (I know they are honest) (26 votes [12.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.21%

  7. was a fan - always a fan (I don't care if they lied) (26 votes [12.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.21%

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#1 BMW_F1

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:11

I figured it would be a good idea to get a new perspective after what has happened today - Lewis & Mclaren apologizing to the FIA, Press and Fans for misleading the stewards in the first hearing and causing Trulli a 25 second penalty.

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#2 RoutariEnjinu

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:18

It must be a comfortable world you inhabit if you think people are so black and white.

#3 Johny Bravo

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:18

Nothing new. A team still lacking integrity though being very proud of it.

#4 Ricardo F1

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:18

Forum . . .going . . .down . . .the . .shitteeerrr . . .

#5 Orin

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:19

I've really gone off them. One senior employee acting on his own initiative lied to the FIA and got the driver to lie too. That means the other 900 odd employees are shit and the organisation is corrupt.




Oh yeah -

:rolleyes:

#6 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:20

Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
It must be a comfortable world you inhabit if you think people are so black and white.


*sigh* do I need to have a version two of my Cheese poll?

#7 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:20

Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
It must be a comfortable world you inhabit if you think people are so black and white.

It's OK I went for the 'give the OP a hard on' option this time :up:

On a more serious note, I wonder if this whole affair will cost them sponsorship?

#8 kismet

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:25

This poll, just like the previous one, is missing the 'was anti - now a fan' option. :wave:

That's such a glaring omission that I feel like I'm being manipulated. So I didn't vote. So there.

#9 BMW_F1

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:26

this poll if properly conducted, can demonstrate if the actions of mclaren have had any repercussions on the general fanbase. If the numbers are worse than before, perhaps mclaren should start doing something about it and change their behavior - that's if they really care about formula one fans.

#10 AyePirate

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:26

Come on Robyn

#11 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:30

Originally posted by Buttoneer
It's OK I went for the 'give the OP a hard on' option this time :up:

On a more serious note, I wonder if this whole affair will cost them sponsorship?


yeah, how many times does a team have to be caught lying and cheating before the sponsors no longer want the association.

#12 Johny Bravo

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:31

Originally posted by Orin
I've really gone off them. One senior employee acting on his own initiative



Now THAT's exactly why they lack integrity.

They never did anything wrong.
Even if they did, it was one rogue employee acting on his own initiative.
Or two.
Maybe one driver.
Or a testdriver.
Or both.
But none from the senior staff.
Or one senior.
Or a few seniors, but not Ron.
But only rogue sleeping terroris cells - Mclaren are innocent, and full of integrity.
Pot, kettle.

The same disgusting screenplay we've seen not so longish ago: Spygate anyone?

#13 djellison

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:32

Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback


*sigh* do I need to have a version two of my Cheese poll?


A crumbly Cheshire.

#14 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:32

Originally posted by BMW_F1
this poll if properly conducted,

*Pheeeep*

Got to stop you there.

!EPIC FAIL!

This is Atlas F1.

#15 giacomo

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 15:32

That incident once again confirmed my opinion on McLaren as being right. Just like Spygate.

#16 schumi7x

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 16:29

It's not a matter of integrity any longer. That went out the door a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if it's a philosophy, or a style, or a corporate vision, or a manifestation of Ron Dennis' personality? But this team seams absolutely hell bent on attracting as much negative publicity it can! It's just endless. You have a former and a future WDC winning drivers, that for one reason or another leave the team at their absolute peak of their careers. You also have a two time WDC/future 7X WDC winning driver that at the peak of his career could not be persuaded to come to the team. Also, arguably the greatest F1 designer of the last 20 years can't be persuaded to stay either. Then of course Spygate. Only the biggest controversy the sport has ever seen. And along the way there are numerous penalties, fines, constant bickering back and forth in the press with the FIA, Ferrari, race stewards, etc.

I have never liked Mclaren. Then or now. And I can't imagine why Mercedes puts up with this situation year after year? And now this year, the car can't get out of it's own shadow, and the front running team has a Mercedes engine? I know they own 40% or whatever. So sell it! Or buy the rest, kick out 80% of the personel, and run your own team. I remember in 2007 there was talk that Mercedes should do this after all the spygate mess. And I remember thinking how a legendary name like Mclaren going away would be so strange, and even sad. But now? They need to go!

#17 brunopascal

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 16:46

- didn't mind them, still don't mind them

I don't think they're criminals or really bad people, just very competitive and sometimes think too high of themselves, fail to play the political game, or try to over-do stuff, etc, and get then into these kinds or trouble.
I bet there are other teams out there w just as high/low morale as McLaren. I think Ferrari didn't always play according to the rules, but were just more intelligent in the way they went about it, etc.

Besides, just because a couple of guys at McL lied or made a "mistake" it doesn't means all the other employees did smth bad. McLaren's name was tarnished by this, but in the long run it will be seen as the idiocy of a few.

#18 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 19:15

Originally posted by Buttoneer



This is Atlas F1.

Saying that, I've yet to find anywhere better than here. Everywhere I look either has not enough frequent posters, not enough actual knowledge or is a fanboy site like TSN.

#19 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 21:27

Originally posted by brunopascal
Besides, just because a couple of guys at McL lied or made a "mistake" it doesn't means all the other employees did smth bad. McLaren's name was tarnished by this, but in the long run it will be seen as the idiocy of a few.

1000 employees all evil and wicked and encouraged to sell their grandmothers by The Arch Lord Ron Dennis is an odd image to conjure.

But if they employ hugely competitive people they should expect a few problems.

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#20 BMW_F1

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 22:43

The overall behavior of a company is dictated from the top all the way down to the bottom.

I know a car repair shop which specializes on european cars. I used to go to them until they split into two shops to broaden their customer base. The shop closer to my house kept the best work equipment (I hear they are the only non-dealer repair shop around my area which owns a BMW diagnostics computer) and location - they were the main flagship shop with the most customers, the other was the startup shop located far away in the suburbs of the city.

About 3 years ago my car broke down and I took it to the main shop to have it repaired without knowing who was the manager/owner - I thought it was the same guy I used to deal with when they were just one company. The guy I knew was not there, his old mechanic was the guy in charge now. This guy was a royal dick, all he wanted was my money and brag about his new store with his state of the art diagnostic tools. It was the worse service you could imagine, all the way down to the receptionist - everyone was rude and unfriendly. They made repairs to my car that I had not even asked for and charged me for it. That was end of that relationship. I now drive miles out of the city when I need to have my car serviced. It turns out the old owner is in charge of the second store, which now operates under a different name.

#21 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 22:50

Originally posted by BMW_F1
The overall behavior of a company is dictated from the top all the way down to the bottom.

Yes there must be lots of elderly bodies buried near paragon from the human sacrifices. Not a proper virgin in sight either.

#22 dabrasco

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 22:58

lord how many threads already :down: :down: :down: :down:

#23 scheivlak

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 23:03

Originally posted by dabrasco
lord how many threads already :down: :down: :down: :down:


Yep.

And still no opportunity to vote for "was anti / now a fan" :D

#24 dabrasco

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 23:08

Originally posted by scheivlak


Yep.

And still no opportunity to vote for "was anti / now a fan" :D


:lol:

the whole front page of the forum is filled with same threads... its like everyone with a mclaren/hamilton bone to pick is coming out the woodwork to create their own special spinoff thread to gloat


all this over one lie, you will think F1 was a saintly sport run in the vatican or monastery....sht, even monks wont make this much fuss about a lie

#25 One

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 23:10

Boring thread, if there is no new fact appearing.

#26 ZenSpeed

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 23:53

(was a fan - always a fan (I know they are honest) 17 12.23%)


Now you are a scary bunch. I understand the I know they lied, but I am still a fan...let's face it, they all have lied at one time or another.....I know for a fact of lies of Todt of Ferrari, Briatore of renault, BOTh Williams and Head of Williams, dennis of Mclaren and the list goes on. People usually don;t switch team just because of lie (it's just that in McLaren's case, it comes after the worst scandal in F1 history and they needed to the under the radar for a season or two, at the very least). But to state You know they are honest, when their CEO suspended the manager who represented McLaren in the matter, their driver admitted of being told by his manager to withold information with the marshals, and the team as a whole didn't think they needed to say anything once they saw poor innocent Jarno Trulli stripped of his podium and well deserved points........their CEO stated this incident was embarasing to McLaren and you still think they are honest and wouldn't lie....they said it themselves once they got caught!!! You basically are the fundamentalists of F1, the Al quaida of sporting fans, the ones with whom no discussion is possible.

Kudos to those fans who will stick with their team, McLaren, accepting the fact they behaved in a seriously unsporting manner. Send emails of protest to the team telling them that while you hope for their success, you expect their behavior to be professional and you are tired of being humiliated by their antics, but don't turn your back to them, that's what being a real fan is all about.

#27 Johny Bravo

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 00:58

Originally posted by dabrasco


all this over one lie, you will think F1 was a saintly sport run in the vatican or monastery....sht, even monks wont make this much fuss about a lie


:lol:
:lol:
:lol:
:lol:
:lol:

Well, if You consider a team (not Ferrari...) having a 780 pages manual on how to "run, develop, manage, test, etc a 2007 Ferrari F1 car", You can't really think F1 is the Vatican or a monastery. No, it's just dirty business with the most disgusting criminals available (at Woking).

#28 Johny Bravo

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 01:01

Originally posted by One
Boring thread, if there is no new fact appearing.


Exactly. :up: :up: :up:

Mclaren just a bunch of cheaters, liars. Nothing new there. :up:

Now who wouldn't trade his 'integrity' for a mere 1 point (3rd place instead of 4th)? Obviously anyone at Woking.

#29 manmower

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 01:15

I was a fan from the Prost days and had some sympathy for them right until the end of the Marlboro livery era. Don't know what happened to turn me off but surely it wasn't just the livery. :D

#30 WillG

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 01:22

Originally posted by Buttoneer
It's OK I went for the 'give the OP a hard on' option this time :up:

On a more serious note, I wonder if this whole affair will cost them sponsorship?


Yeah right! Sponsors generally don't care too much about this stuff. McLaren is getting so much attention now, they may pick up a sponsor or two!

And ZenSpeed, I agree 100%.

#31 rsherb

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 02:09

Can't vote as there is no option for "Was a fan and still a fan, although I'm disappointed in the way they handled the Stewards inquiry"

#32 Dunder

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 02:16

was a fan - always a fan (I don't care if they lied)

That is not too say that what the team did in the aftermath of the race in Melbourne was unbeleivably dumb! It was, and the fact that this led to Trulli being penalised means that I have no complaint about Hamilton being disqualified.

With that said, I beleive (quite strongly) that the FIA has a vendetta against my team and a bit like a Londoner during the blitz it would hardly be right to abandon them just because times are tough. This fascist dictatorship can bring it's onslought and it's appeasers and apologists can stand idly by (you might be next if your car isn't red) "we will never surrender". :smoking:

#33 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 02:23

Originally posted by brunopascal
- didn't mind them, still don't mind them

I don't think they're criminals or really bad people, just very competitive and sometimes think too high of themselves, fail to play the political game, or try to over-do stuff, etc, and get then into these kinds or trouble.
I bet there are other teams out there w just as high/low morale as McLaren. I think Ferrari didn't always play according to the rules, but were just more intelligent in the way they went about it, etc.

Besides, just because a couple of guys at McL lied or made a "mistake" it doesn't means all the other employees did smth bad. McLaren's name was tarnished by this, but in the long run it will be seen as the idiocy of a few.

Same.

#34 Zdeus

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 02:24

Originally posted by WillG


Yeah right! Sponsors generally don't care too much about this stuff. McLaren is getting so much attention now, they may pick up a sponsor or two!

And ZenSpeed, I agree 100%.


As someone who went to a top b-school known for marketing and having known several brand managers - I very furiously disagree with you. There are immense stories of brands pulling the plug of sponsorship because the team or personality they endorsed lost face. Think back to times when the Madonna and Michael Jackson Pepsi commercial (1989) to the recent Chris Brown wrigley's commercial. Brands and sponsorship lives and dies based on perception and performance...

#35 slideways

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 07:46

Originally posted by slideways
Just cements my moral dislike for them really.

Give me Williams, RBR or even the new Todtless, Schumacherless Ferrari any day over this bunch of corporate cheating robots.



#36 Anomnader

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 07:47

Originally posted by slideways




:wave: Hi Equality

#37 slideways

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 07:53

Originally posted by Anomnader




:wave: Hi Equality


I don't know who you are or who Equality is but I don't play this game.

#38 EVO2

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 09:57

"Was a fan and still a fan, although I'm disappointed in the way they handled the Stewards inquiry"

Have to agree with this.

What can a McLaren fan say ? we defended the team through Stepneygate and there's little doubt that the team and Lewis have been treated very hard by the FIA for at least the last two seasons.

But we can't defend the indefenceable :

Ryan has to be fire but let's look at Hamilton's position :

Lewis in only his second year in F1 is just about to go into the Stewards and the Sporting Director of McLaren, no less, with 35 years experience, remember, tells him to say nothing about letting Trulli by.

Very hard to argue outside the Steward's door yet Hamilton knew he had already told the press he was ordered to let Trulli pass !

A monumental cock up and Hamilton has had another big learning experience.

But all you Ferrari fans out there, don't get too prissy about this :

just contrast the behaviour of Hamilton and McLaren after this incident with that of Ferrari, Schumacher, Todt and even Ross Brawn after the Monaco parking incident. Nobody would admit to Schumacher having done anything wrong : in fact, THEY ALL LIED, not just to the Stewards but to the fans live on TV.

McLaren will fire Ryan and Hamilton will take his chances with the FIA. and we can have a reasonable expectation that he now has a better understanding of what's right and wrong having learned an important lesson

Something that Michael Schumacher never did.

#39 werks prototype

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 12:35

I think any criticism of McLaren is frankly hypocritical after so many years of the F1 championship, with all that has gone on, especially in light of what we already 'know' partially about the apparent underlying motivational theme of the FIA under Mr Mosley.

Still, nobody alive could deny McLaren have been extremely stupid. I suppose now the sadisitc side of the FIA will once again rear its ugly head. The sadistic side of McLarens rivals has already rather predictably reared it's ugly head. Not least on these forums. I am amazed that motor racing fans with even an appreciable knowledge of recent F1 history are so ready to hang Lewis and co. Is he really such a threat? That he needs to be eradicated.

What doesn't change in my opinion is McLaren being the producer of the worlds best road going sports car and also that McLaren will probably in the very near future overtake Ferrari's record in F1. And as any racing fan will appreciate, the Ferrari record was probably not a record built on fair play. So that is where we are, right now the classless will seek to take advantage and exploit the situation at every turn as they are always prone to do, and invent as many anti-McLaren polls as they can possibly think of (which always seem to leave little voting options to actualy say something good about the team).

Be careful though because life has a habit of biting back at the hypocrite. Expect Alonso and Ferrari scandals soon!

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#40 ZenSpeed

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 13:20

quote:Originally posted by WillG Yeah right! Sponsors generally don't care too much about this stuff. McLaren is getting so much attention now, they may pick up a sponsor or two! And ZenSpeed, I agree 100%. As someone who went to a top b-school known for marketing and having known several brand managers - I very furiously disagree with you. There are immense stories of brands pulling the plug of sponsorship because the team or personality they endorsed lost face.



no need to go so far back in the past........Phelp lost sponsors recently for one bong hit, despite being fresh of 8 Gold Medals

#41 alfista

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 13:36

Originally posted by EVO2
McLaren will fire Ryan and Hamilton will take his chances with the FIA. and we can have a reasonable expectation that he now has a better understanding of what's right and wrong having learned an important lesson

Something that Michael Schumacher never did.


How can you take granted that Hamilton will know now? MS was more or less a good guy in the beginning of 1994 but lost that image completely during that year. What is there to prevent the same thing happening to Lewis? IMHO he is well advanced on his way. Imagine if FIA hadn't renewed Trulli-Hamilton case (no matter for what reason). Would Hamilton knock on FIA's door saying "Oh, guys, I am very sorry but I lied to you"?

#42 slideways

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 13:38

You do realise that not being a McLaren fan doesn't automatically make you a Tifosi or crazy Spanish guy? Many of us are just straight up fans of the sport, and don't care about your he did, she did crap between Ferrari and McLaren.

If this was cricket, football, tennis etc. it would be a lengthy ban. Because we have a fuckwit like Mosely leading another bunch of fuckwits like the FIA, no one knows what will happen.