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The real story behind the Hamilton/Trulli debacle.


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#1 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 16:52

According to my source at Mclaren this is what REALLY happened. After Trulli had left the racing circuit, Hamilton passed him (which was within his right to do) and assumed 3rd place. Mclaren being s**t scared of the FIA stewards rang Charlie Whiting for clarification on the pass (ie; if it was legal, or did he have to give it back). Due to the fact Mclaren couldn't get an answer straight away, they decided to play it ultra safe and asked Hamilton to give the place back. Hamilton knowing the rules questioned inside his head, the rationale behind behind his team asking him to giving up the posistion. As the telemetry has confirmed, Hamilton never varied his speed or slowed down once behind the safety car. He did however move over to the right hand side of the circuit, whilst talking with the Mclaren pitwall about giving back the position to Trulli.

(Now for the important bit and why Ryan decided and encouraged Hamilton to be economical with the truth.) Whilst talking it over with Mclaren pitwall, Trulli decided to overtake Hamilton on his own volition. Even though Mclaren had discussed and ordered Hamilton to let Trulli pass, at the time of Trulli's overtake, Hamilton had not conciously let Trulli through. So when the team again asked Hamilton to let Trulli through, Hamilton answered back "I let him past already". (this reply must be seen in the context of Hamilton questioning the legality of his move on Trulli and the team ordering him to relinquish the position and because Trulli had already gone past, Hamilton said "I let him past already", conceding he would have to given the place up anyway.)

Now this should have been the end of it and subsequently it would have been a story about the race stewards not being available to officiate/rule on the Trulli/Hamilton pass, and how our boywonder was robbed of a point. But when Hamilton got called up to the stewards, Ryan again asked him "did he willingly/conciously give up his place to Trulli." On this point Hamilton is telling the truth and he did not give it up, Trulli took it. However from Ryans advice, Hamilton did not tell the stewards that by him moving over to the right hand side of the circuit, Trulli could have seen this as a gesture to overtake. Neither did Ryan or Hamilton inform the stewards, even though Trulli overtook him, they were going to let him through anyway. If the stewards had all these facts the first time, Trulli would not have been demoted and this is why the wrath of the FIA came down on Mclaren.

Even though Hamilton and Ryan did not technically lie about Trulli's pass, it was the with-holding of information and not allowing the stewards to be fully informed of the whole picture, is the reason the FIA f**ked over Mclaren in this scandal. So when Ryan and Hamilton went into the first stewards meeting, "did they lie?" I'll leave that up to you. This puts into context why Trulli kept his mouth shut and never complained too much about being demoted and why the stewards never believed Trulli's story, because Hamiltons telemetry showed he never slowed down to encourage him to overtake. :eek:

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#2 ensign14

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 16:59

FWIW the Hamilpology does not say that he "lied", only that he withheld information. Which, if this scenario were correct, shows the stewards are hopeless at cross-examination - and indeed that the FIA summary was in itself misleading. Which would not be unexpected. And would explain why McLaren go the kowtow route; they don't want the ban hamster from the FIA for pointing out they've ballsed it up (again). Someone has to be Snowball.

#3 Jojodyne

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:01

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge
According to my source


I'm interested. Who is your source?

#4 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:01

Originally posted by Jojodyne


I'm interested. Who is your source?


:rolleyes:

#5 Nuvol

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:03

worst cover up ever. Move over.

#6 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:04

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge
According to my source at Mclaren this is what REALLY happened. After Trulli had left the racing circuit, Hamilton passed him (which was within his right to do) and assumed 3rd place. Mclaren being s**t scared of the FIA stewards rang Charlie Whiting for clarification on the pass (ie; if it was legal, or did he have to give it back). Due to the fact Mclaren couldn't get an answer straight away, they decided to play it ultra safe and asked Hamilton to give the place back. Hamilton knowing the rules questioned inside his head, the rationale behind behind his team asking him to giving up the posistion. As the telemetry has confirmed, Hamilton never varied his speed or slowed down once behind the safety car. He did however move over to the right hand side of the circuit, whilst talking with the Mclaren pitwall about giving back the position to Trulli.

(Now for the important bit and why Ryan decided and encouraged Hamilton to be economical with the truth.) Whilst talking it over with Mclaren pitwall, Trulli decided to overtake Hamilton on his own volition. Even though Mclaren had discussed and ordered Hamilton to let Trulli pass, at the time of Trulli's overtake, Hamilton had not conciously let Trulli through. So when the team again asked Hamilton to let Trulli through, Hamilton answered back "I let him past already". (this reply must be seen in the context of Hamilton questioning the legality of his move on Trulli and the team ordering him to relinquish the position and because Trulli had already gone past, Hamilton said "I let him past already", conceding he would have to given the place up anyway.)

Now this should have been the end of it and subsequently it would have been a story about the race stewards not being available to officiate/rule on the Trulli/Hamilton pass, and how our boywonder was robbed of a point. But when Hamilton got called up to the stewards, Ryan again asked him "did he willingly/conciously give up his place to Trulli." On this point Hamilton is telling the truth and he did not give it up, Trulli took it. However from Ryans advice, Hamilton did not tell the stewards that by him moving over to the right hand side of the circuit, Trulli could have seen this as a gesture to overtake. Neither did Ryan or Hamilton inform the stewards, even though Trulli overtook him, they were going to let him through anyway. If the stewards had all these facts the first time, Trulli would not have been demoted and this is why the wrath of the FIA came down on Mclaren.

Even though Hamilton and Ryan did not technically lie about Trulli's pass, it was the with-holding of information and not allowing the stewards to be fully informed of the whole picture, is the reason the FIA f**ked over Mclaren in this scandal. So when Ryan and Hamilton went into the first stewards meeting, "did they lie?" I'll leave that up to you. This puts into context why Trulli kept his mouth shut and never complained too much about being demoted and why the stewards never believed Trulli's story, because Hamiltons telemetry showed he never slowed down to encourage him to overtake. :eek:


:up:
Thanks for that.

#7 Gareth

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:05

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge
So when the team again asked Hamilton to let Trulli through, Hamilton answered back "I let him past already". (this reply must be seen in the context of Hamilton questioning the legality of his move on Trulli and the team ordering him to relinquish the position and because Trulli had already gone past, Hamilton said "I let him past already", conceding he would have to given the place up anyway.)

This is simply factually wrong, so I find your account not credible. The team did not "again [ask] Hamilton to let Trulli through", they told Hamilton to hold his position.

Even if you managed to get the basic facts right, I still cannot comprehend what possible context could ever convert "I let him past already" from meaning "I let him go through" to "I did not mean to let him go through but he took the place anyway".

#8 engel

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:05

ROFL ... :rotfl: :rotfl:

Love how you took everything that could conceivably be used to defend McC/LH and used it in your "insider" view, even if most of it has been since denied by both McC and LH

Here's my insider's view. Elvis did it.

#9 Monad

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:06

Does anyone have the Trulli/Toyota team radio?

#10 engel

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:08

Originally posted by Monad
Does anyone have the Trulli/Toyota team radio?


http://www.wrzuta.pl...io_melbourne_09

posted by somebody else, not me, so props to them whoever they are

#11 alg7_munif

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:08

This is what I was saying yesterday, Hamilton didn't slow down to let Trulli through, he just went off the racing line, that is why the telemetry doesn't show that he slowed down hence the penalty was given to Trulli. Maybe you are right, they were not "explicit" enough and they were withholding information about letting Trulli pass.

Even this video shows that Hamilton was not "very very very slow" like said by Trulli.
http://rapidshare.co...lli_Onboard.FLV

#12 Rainking

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:09

Hamilton, who received applause by a number of journalists at the end of the short press conference, said that only he and Ryan had been involved in the decision to withhold information from the FIA.

And yet...

MW: "Trulli then re-took the place under the safety car, which ordinarily you wouldn't do so I know that the FIA are looking at it at the moment and doubtless we'll have a ruling in due course. That's our position at the moment and we will see what happens in the coming hours".

:down:

#13 ensign14

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:11

Originally posted by Gareth
Even if you managed to get the basic facts right, I still cannot comprehend what possible context could ever convert "I let him past already" from meaning "I let him go through" to "I did not mean to let him go through but he took the place anyway".

Cos Hamilton was not being cross-examined at the time?

#14 erpetao

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:11

Are you adding anything new to what has already been discussed on this board?

Lol do you need a McLaren source for that?

I'll ask my CIA source and post later.

#15 JPW

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:12

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge
According to my source at Mclaren .........................

Didn't read any further, why believe anything that comes from McLaren after this fiasco?

I think that in future the stewards will also take any answer coming from McLaren or Hamilton with a healthy dose of scepticism.

#16 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:13

Originally posted by Gareth

This is simply factually wrong, so I find your account not credible. The team did not "again [ask] Hamilton to let Trulli through", they told Hamilton to hold his position.

Even if you managed to get the basic facts right, I still cannot comprehend what possible context could ever convert "I let him past already" from meaning "I let him go through" to "I did not mean to let him go through but he took the place anyway".


Hamilton: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, ..., is this OK?


McLaren pitwall: Understood, Lewis. We'll confirm and get back to you.


Hamilton: He was off the track. He went wide.


McLaren pitwall: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.


Hamilton: Okay.


Hamilton: He's slowed right down in front of me.


McLaren pitwall: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.


Hamilton: I let him past already

#17 HP

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:15

So Withmarsh suspends Dave Ryan, Hamilton makes a public apology because the FiA got it all wrong?

Then McLaren is in a worse state than if they 'just' had 2 of their employees lying.

#18 stevvy1986

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:15

Have to admit I also wasn't convinced once i saw the 'According to my source at McLaren' bit at the start (no offence ragged)

#19 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:16

Originally posted by alg7_munif
This is what I was saying yesterday, Hamilton didn't slow down to let Trulli through, he just went off the racing line, that is why the telemetry doesn't show that he slowed down hence the penalty was given to Trulli. Maybe you are right, they were not "explicit" enough and they were withholding information about letting Trulli to pass.

Even this video shows that Hamilton was not "very very very slow" like said by Trulli.
http://rapidshare.co...lli_Onboard.FLV


Thanks for the file. :up:

Trulli claimed he had to slow down to 80kmh, it doesn't look that slow to me.

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#20 Gareth

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:17

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge


Hamilton: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, ..., is this OK?


McLaren pitwall: Understood, Lewis. We'll confirm and get back to you.


Hamilton: He was off the track. He went wide.


McLaren pitwall: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.


Hamilton: Okay.


Hamilton: He's slowed right down in front of me.


McLaren pitwall: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.


Hamilton: I let him past already

Exactly. They asked him to let Trulli through once.

They did not (as you say) then "again [ask] Hamilton to let Trulli through". They told him to retain his position.

#21 bankoq

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:17

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge
But when Hamilton got called up to the stewards, Ryan again asked him "did he willingly/conciously give up his place to Trulli." On this point Hamilton is telling the truth and he did not give it up, Trulli took it.


Your theory falls down here mate. There was a direct question from stewards: were you instructed by the team to let Trulli by? Aswer: NO. Conclusion - LIE. Period.

#22 Gareth

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:19

Originally posted by ensign14

Cos Hamilton was not being cross-examined at the time?

I am sure he was not aiming for 100% under oath precision. But there is a massive difference from "he took the place" to "I let him through" and, in those conversations where they are obviously trying to work out what their position was, a degree of accuracy was needed.

#23 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:21

Originally posted by stevvy1986
Have to admit I also wasn't convinced once i saw the 'According to my source at McLaren' bit at the start (no offence ragged)


No offence taken, but the sceptisim on this board is amazing. It's not like I'm saying I'm related to the Queen or Barack Obama. I know a faceless £40K a year F1 mechanic, who has a mortgage and a couple of kids. It's not like i'm saying i know whats in area 51, or who really shot Kennedy. :eek: All he did via e-mail, was give his version of events how he was told. Thats it.

#24 alg7_munif

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:22

Originally posted by Gareth

I am sure he was not aiming for 100% under oath precision. But there is a massive difference from "he took the place" to "I let him through" and, in those conversations where they are obviously trying to work out what their position was, a degree of accuracy was needed.


Is it OK to overtake someone under a safety car if he lets you through?

#25 primer

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:22

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge
According to my source at Mclaren this is what REALLY happened.


Heh.

Confucius says a man who spins so much has no traction. :cool:

#26 Gareth

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:22

Originally posted by alg7_munif


Is it OK to overtake someone under a safety car if he lets you through?

Yes. That is why Trulli's penalty was overturned.

#27 Atreiu

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:24

This whole issue was blown out of hands by the stewards' incompetence. It's ridiculous that they can't give quick and definitive rullings on issue like these. It's almost as if they do not have tapes of the race to watch and only take decisions by what they listen.

We are only one race into the season and the stewards have already fvcked up twice, with Hamilton and Vettel.

I dare someone keep count of how many highly questionable and absurd calls the stewards will make this season.

---

As for the reactions on the BB, it's obvious the vast majority has made up its mind based on a handful of misconceptions and doesn't bother trying to know the whole chain of events.

#28 engel

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:24

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge
He did however move over to the right hand side of the circuit, whilst talking with the Mclaren pitwall about giving back the position to Trulli.
(Now for the important bit and why Ryan decided and encouraged Hamilton to be economical with the truth.) Whilst talking it over with Mclaren pitwall, Trulli decided to overtake Hamilton on his own volition. Even though Mclaren had discussed and ordered Hamilton to let Trulli pass, at the time of Trulli's overtake, Hamilton had not conciously let Trulli through.



I don't believe people are taking this seriously ... cmon that's a wet dream the guy posted.

Case in point, download the actual UNEDITED pit-car radio conversations http://dl.groovygeck...audio_final.mp3

0.30 Seconds In - > Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.
0.39 Seconds In - > OK (LH)
1min 02 seconds in -> He’s slowed right down in front of me.(LH)
1min 05 seconds in -> OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are
talking to Charlie. (clearly Hamilton's previous message didn't register with the team so he comes back on with)
1min 10 seconds in ->I let him past already. (LH)

Between Lewis' OK and his statement "He’s slowed right down in front of me." there's 23 seconds of radio silence.NO CONVERSATION WHILE TRULLI WENT BY. So the whole "he moved to side to talk to the team" is bull. He’s slowed right down in front of me. refers to trulli slowing down AFTER Hamilton let him through, so the account posted above is bullshit the OP thought up and imagined he 'd get attention if he claimed it was "insider"


PS I insist my insider claims Elvis did it.

#29 kismet

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:28

Hamilton never varied his speed or slowed down once behind the safety car.

So why lie or mislead then? :confused:

If, as suggested by this alleged McLaren insider, Hamilton never once slowed down behind the safety car, why would McLaren have needed to 'be economical with the truth' at all? They would've been 100 % in the clear and Trulli would've been guilty as all heck.

#30 Monad

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:28

To you have Trullis radio like that. Because i can't download Trullis radio from the other link.

#31 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:29

Originally posted by engel



I don't believe people are taking this seriously ... cmon that's a wet dream the guy posted.

Case in point, download the actual UNEDITED pit-car radio conversations http://dl.groovygeck...audio_final.mp3

0.30 Seconds In - > Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.
0.39 Seconds In - > OK (LH)
1min 02 seconds in -> He’s slowed right down in front of me.(LH)
1min 05 seconds in -> OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are
talking to Charlie. (clearly Hamilton's previous message didn't register with the team so he comes back on with)
1min 10 seconds in ->I let him past already. (LH)

Between Lewis' OK and his statement "He’s slowed right down in front of me." there's 23 seconds of radio silence.NO CONVERSATION WHILE TRULLI WENT BY. So the whole "he moved to side to talk to the team" is bull. He’s slowed right down in front of me. refers to trulli slowing down AFTER Hamilton let him through, so the account posted above is bullshit the OP thought up and imagined he 'd get attention if he claimed it was "insider"


PS I insist my insider claims Elvis did it.


Well if the old senile Chalie Whiting could do his job none of this would have been an issue. And if Jarno Trulli was a good driver and could keep his car on the road during the SC period this wouldn't be an issue would it. But don't let that get in the way of a good mob rule crucifixion. :rolleyes:

#32 j madra

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:29

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge
Now this should have been the end of it and subsequently it would have been a story about the race stewards not being available to officiate/rule on the Trulli/Hamilton pass


In my opinion, this is the thing that is getting lost in the whole discussion. The fact F1 race control and stewards have overlapping responsibilities and historically have had conflicting opinions leaves teams unable to get proper guidance during an event. If race control was on top of things, they could have simply had Trulli and Hamilton swap places and there would be no issue.

As for the stewards...why did they bother making a ruling without all of the information that was available to them?? Instead they issue a ruling that impacts the final race result and decide to re-summon the parties involved once they got wind of Hamilton's version of the events in the press.

#33 JPW

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:31

Originally posted by The Ragged Edge
No offence taken, but the sceptisim on this board is amazing. It's not like I'm saying I'm related to the Queen or Barack Obama. I know a faceless £40K a year F1 mechanic, who has a mortgage and a couple of kids. It's not like i'm saying i know whats in area 51, or who really shot Kennedy. :eek: All he did via e-mail, was give his version of events how he was told. Thats it.

Maybe you should tell your friend that he's probably being lied to as well.

A company lying and cheating to the (F1) world so often would probably have no qualms with telling a BS-story to a faceless £40K a year F1 mechanic, who blabbers via e-mail to his mates.

#34 wingwalker

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:36

So Hamilton didn't let him past, he just was told to let him past and later said "I let him past already' after he coincidentally moved over with no intention whatsoever to let him past. Yeah, right. Anyone wants to hear my source at FIA story about how everyone in F1 is controlled by body invaders? It's 100% legit, I swear.



Sorry for the scepticism.

#35 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:37

Originally posted by JPW

Maybe you should tell your friend that he's probably being lied to as well.

A company lying and cheating to the (F1) world so often would probably have no qualms with telling a BS-story to a faceless £40K a year F1 mechanic, who blabbers via e-mail to his mates.


Of course you're right and we should tell all people who have any association with anybody employed with McLaren to cut their ties with immediate effect. Furthermore, we should tell these people not to convey any of their lies to people on BB's as we clearly aren't interested in having lies and untruths passed to us. In addition, anybody merely posting about McLaren in a positive light should be denigrated and ridiculed mercilessly by as many posters on the BB as possible. :rolleyes:

#36 alg7_munif

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:37

Lewis overtaking Trulli:

Trulli overtaking Lewis: http://rapidshare.co...lli_Onboard.FLV

Trulli's radio: http://www.wrzuta.pl...io_melbourne_09

Hamilton's radio: http://dl.groovygeck...audio_final.mp3


Can someone answer a few questions for me:

1) Did Lewis let Trulli pass?
2) Did Lewis slow down "a lot, a lot, a lot" like Trulli said?
3) Did Trulli tell his team that Lewis overtook him when he was off the track?
4) Did Toyota convince Trulli that Lewis overtook him under a yellow flag?
5) What was there on the left side of the track right after Trulli overtook Lewis?

Now if we can have the telemetry data...

#37 fed up

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:38

Why is there always semantics in F1. If you watch the onboard shot on Trulli's car it is obvious that Trulli overtakes hamilton behind the safety car - Hamilton wasn't doing 15mph (as suggested by Brundle) and the radio shows the team asking Lewis to stay ahead of Trulli while they get clarification from Charlie. Trulli took the place back by travelling faster than Lewis.

I really dont understand why we have to get into what instructions were given AFTER Trulli had already taken the place back. This whole saga confuses me because there is so much grey area.

#38 mursuka80

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:43

So,should we make a quessing game,where we guess what is the next crappy story that interferes and takes the spotlight from the really important thing....RACING!!!! Thread after thread full of crap.And my opinion to this matter is that Lewis/Mclaren had it coming.

#39 bond

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:45

Originally posted by JPW

Maybe you should tell your friend that he's probably being lied to as well.

A company lying and cheating to the (F1) world so often would probably have no qualms with telling a BS-story to a faceless £40K a year F1 mechanic, who blabbers via e-mail to his mates.


So i can assume you also lie in every post you make here...

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#40 engel

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:47

Originally posted by alg7_munif
The overtaking: http://rapidshare.co...lli_Onboard.FLV

Trulli's radio: http://www.wrzuta.pl...io_melbourne_09

Hamilton's radio: http://dl.groovygeck...audio_final.mp3

Can someone answer a few questions for me:

1) Did Lewis let Trulli pass?
2) Did Lewis slow down "a lot, a lot, a lot" like Trulli said?
3) Did Trulli tell his team that Lewis overtook him when he was off the track?
4) Did Toyota convince Trulli that Lewis overtook him under a yellow flag?


1) Yes
2) Yes (Trulli is doing 50 PMH when he passes Hamilton, which would make Hamilton very very very slow if he is passed like he's stopped at 50 mph)
3) Was he off track? Do you have video? Trulli's story is that he was rejoining the track when Hamilton passed. Technically off the track = 4 wheels outside the white lines Personally I can't answer this question since I haven't seen video
4) Don't understand the question. Trulli told them there were yellow flags where Hamilton overtook and they said ok ok hamilton overtook with yellow flags. Ie acknowledged his info ... and (implicitly) would take it up with RC. Where does "convince trulli" come into it?

#41 Dragonfly

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:50

From the transcript

Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are
talking to Charlie.
LH:I let him past already.
:rotfl:

Martin?

#42 alg7_munif

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:50

Originally posted by engel


1) Yes
2) Yes (Trulli is doing 50 PMH when he passes Hamilton, which would make Hamilton very very very slow if he is passed like he's stopped at 50 mph)
3) Was he off track? Do you have video? Trulli's story is that he was rejoining the track when Hamilton passed. Technically off the track = 4 wheels outside the white lines Personally I can't answer this question since I haven't seen video
4) Don't understand the question. Trulli told them there were yellow flags where Hamilton overtook and they said ok ok hamilton overtook with yellow flags. Ie acknowledged his info ... and (implicitly) would take it up with RC. Where does "convince trulli" come into it?

Edited my post to add the video and another question.

Originally posted by alg7_munif
Lewis overtaking Trulli:

Trulli overtaking Lewis: http://rapidshare.co...lli_Onboard.FLV

Trulli's radio: http://www.wrzuta.pl...io_melbourne_09

Hamilton's radio: http://dl.groovygeck...audio_final.mp3


Can someone answer a few questions for me:

1) Did Lewis let Trulli pass?
2) Did Lewis slow down "a lot, a lot, a lot" like Trulli said?
3) Did Trulli tell his team that Lewis overtook him when he was off the track?
4) Did Toyota convince Trulli that Lewis overtook him under a yellow flag?
5) What was there on the left side of the track right after Trulli overtook Lewis?

Now if we can have the telemetry data...



#43 wingwalker

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:51

Originally posted by fed up
the radio shows the team asking Lewis to stay ahead of Trulli while they get clarification from Charlie.



Yeah, to which he responds "I already let him through", cause he was told to do so 40 seconds earlier. Martin Whitmarsh, is that you?

#44 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:52

Originally posted by engel


2) Yes (Trulli is doing 50 PMH when he passes Hamilton, which would make Hamilton very very very slow if he is passed like he's stopped at 50 mph)


Do you have the speed traces to prove Trulli was only going 50mph?

#45 D.M.N.

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:54

Originally posted by alg7_munif

Edited my post to add the video and another question.


5) Pickup truck to recover Kubica's car.

#46 engel

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 17:56

Originally posted by alg7_munif

Edited my post to add the video and another question.


OK then having seen the video, clearly:

3) Clearly yes Hamilton overtook while Trulli was offtrack.
...
5) Crane removing Kubica's car (assuming you mean the big yellow thing on the left right before Trulli pulls left and slows down)

Originally posted by senna da silva


Do you have the speed traces to prove Trulli was only going 50mph?


nope, I m not toyota. It's a matter of record that hasn't been disputed by anybody so far.Besides, look at the video you posted ... 1st gear and no where near the rev lights

#47 alg7_munif

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 18:00

Originally posted by engel


OK then having seen the video, clearly:

3) Clearly yes Hamilton overtook while Trulli was offtrack.
...
5) Crane removing Kubica's car (assuming you mean the big yellow thing on the left right before Trulli pulls left and slows down)


You didn't answer my third question:
3) Did Trulli tell his team that Lewis overtook him when he was off the track?

For 5), don't you think that Trulli was too fast overtaking the crane?

#48 Madras

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 18:04

Why did Trulli leave the track?

#49 senna da silva

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 18:05

Originally posted by engel
nope, I m not toyota. It's a matter of record that hasn't been disputed by anybody so far.Besides, look at the video you posted ... 1st gear and no where near the rev lights


It doesn't look like first gear until after he passes the truck on the circuit. IMO it looks like he's in 2nd when he passes Lewis.

#50 bond

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 18:06

Originally posted by Madras
Why did Trulli leave the track?


Cold brakes...