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Huge mistake by Ferrari/Massa


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#1 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:37

I was watching Q1 and with the time counting down I looked at the bottom 5 and there were 2 BMWs there which would obviously improve, Massa was 8th, Piquet 9th and Piquet went out to improve his time. I counted only 4 cars that I didnt think could get clear of the bottom 5 zone down to Piquet, and I coundnt understand how Massa didnt go again. I'm just amazed Ferrari messed up like that. They have made way too many mistakes tactically since Ross Brawn left, it's schoolboy errors as well.

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#2 Scotracer

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:38

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#3 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:42

Originally posted by Scotracer
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What an intelligent post.

#4 Scotracer

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:43

I thought so too.

#5 primer

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:46

Don't worry Stefano will have excuses/explanation ready soon.

#6 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:49

Originally posted by primer
Don't worry Stefano will have excuses/explanation ready soon.


Sack the tactician.

btw anyone else think they should ditch KERS? Kubica is doing well without it.

#7 Dragonfly

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:51

I think Kimi already was driving without KERS.

And Stefano has already found an excuse.
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74231

#8 Wolbo

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:51

At this level that is amazingly incompetent.

#9 KAus

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 10:53

Massa better hope this doesn't come back to bite him at the end of the season :( Ferrari making rookie errors again :down:

PS: I thought the pop corn pic was worth a laugh :wave:

#10 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:01

Originally posted by KAus


PS: I thought the pop corn pic was worth a laugh :wave:


I guess it was if he meant the Ferrari team were eating it during qualifying.

#11 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:04

Originally posted by Dragonfly
I think Kimi already was driving without KERS.

And Stefano has already found an excuse.
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74231

That was before qualifying.

#12 KAus

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:07

Strange thing is that I actually support the 'new' Ferrari team (was really not a fan of the Todt/Schumi/Brawn era). They seem a lot more open/fair than they used to be but are making way too many errors over the last few years :(

Hopefully they get the car back up to the front and this won't damage Massa's title hopes too much.

#13 OLEV

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:08

Originally posted by Madras


I guess it was if he meant the Ferrari team were eating it during qualifying.


Don't get it, do you?

#14 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:10

Originally posted by OLEV


Don't get it, do you?


I guess not. Please explain I feel left out.

#15 Scotracer

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:10

:lol:

I meant I was getting popcorn to watch this thread - it's gonna be F.U.N

#16 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:12

Originally posted by KAus
Strange thing is that I actually support the 'new' Ferrari team (was really not a fan of the Todt/Schumi/Brawn era). They seem a lot more open/fair than they used to be but are making way too many errors over the last few years :(


Tactically I have found them hopeless. It's like if they're unsure what to do they do nothing, rather than actively trying something that might help. They just dont have the insight that's required.

#17 Zarathustra

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:13

Originally posted by KAus
Strange thing is that I actually support the 'new' Ferrari team (was really not a fan of the Todt/Schumi/Brawn era). They seem a lot more open/fair than they used to be but are making way too many errors over the last few years :(

Yeah I've enjoyed the incompetence of the new Ferrari team too.

#18 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:14

Originally posted by Scotracer
:lol:

I meant I was getting popcorn to watch this thread - it's gonna be F.U.N


I see.

#19 pippin

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:18

I gotta say what an error!! :eek: I know other teams have been caught out before, but still they should have seen it coming. Button doing quicker laps on hard tyres should have been a big warning sign.

I hope Ferrari can sort themselves out quickly. Even though I don't support the team myself, I still want to see them fighting up front.

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#20 KAus

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:19

Originally posted by Zarathustra
Yeah I've enjoyed the incompetence of the new Ferrari team too.


Well, at least they were fast and incompetent last year :)

Actually, that's probably worse. I'd rather get shafted by the team running in 10th than 1st.

#21 inca_roads

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:21

Team under pressure to quickly return to their normal front-running position gets themselves in to a position they never should have.

Theme of the week...

#22 Hyatt

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:22

Schuey showed what he is really worth as Ferrar-consult ...

#23 lokiman

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:23

Notorious Ferrari-hater, Felipe Massa, has said that Ferrari made 'a strategic error' in not doing another qualifying run.

#24 carbonfibre

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:25

Originally posted by Hyatt
Schuey showed what he is really worth as Ferrar-consult ...

O yes blame it on Michael shall we... :drunk:

#25 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:26

Originally posted by Hyatt
Schuey showed what he is really worth as Ferrar-consult ...


Yeah I fail to see what good he's doing in the team.

#26 KAus

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:33

I have got no idea what Schumi actually does for Ferrari but you would think that he would be very useful for this kind of thing. Is he involved at all during qualifying/race or mainly during testing?

#27 HP

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:34

Originally posted by Hyatt
Schuey showed what he is really worth as Ferrar-consult ...

Didn't took long for someone to point towards MS. By your comment it looks you didn't understand the Brawm/MS era.

MS was good at executing Brawn's strategies, but MS didn't made them himself. It is simple as that, two very different abilities complementing each other perfectly. Unfortunately Ferrari don't have the best in either department anymore.

At least they seem to have gotten the message, judging by Massa's comments.

What they missed is that the winds were changing to allow for faster lap times towards the end of Q1. At least the Ferrari has decent race pace.

#28 HP

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:35

Originally posted by KAus
I have got no idea what Schumi actually does for Ferrari but you would think that he would be very useful for this kind of thing. Is he involved at all during qualifying/race or mainly during testing?

MS is currently there because he has experience with slicks. But he ain't no strategist.

#29 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:37

Originally posted by HP
Didn't took long for someone to point towards MS. By your comment it looks you didn't understand the Brawm/MS era.

MS was good at executing Brawn's strategies, but MS didn't made them himself. It is simple as that, two very different abilities complementing each other perfectly. Unfortunately Ferrari don't have the best in either department anymore.

At least they seem to have gotten the message, judging by Massa's comments.

What they missed is that the winds were changing to allow for faster lap times towards the end of Q1. At least the Ferrari has decent race pace.


He wasnt saying Schuey was responsible for this. Just questioning the need for him being there at all.

#30 tifosi

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:37

That had to be one of the most incompetent moves made. I was sitting there watching the times drop and just saying to myself, WHERE THE HELL IS FERRARI?

EVen the Speed guys saw it coming. What the hell was going on in that garage?

#31 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:38

Originally posted by HP
MS is currently there because he has experience with slicks. But he ain't no strategist.


Is there a Ferrari strategist?

#32 Zarathustra

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:38

Originally posted by KAus


Well, at least they were fast and incompetent last year :)

Actually, that's probably worse. I'd rather get shafted by the team running in 10th than 1st.

Their speed just made it funnier when they clowned around with pit lights and fuel hoses and dodgy engine "reliability" upgrades.

#33 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:39

Originally posted by tifosi

EVen the Speed guys saw it coming. What the hell was going on in that garage?


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#34 Racing Dutchman

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:40

Originally posted by Hyatt
Schuey showed what he is really worth as Ferrar[i[i[/i]-consult ...

Indeed, he is a consultant, and if you had any organizational knowledge like I do, you would know this means he has no power of command: he can only advise.

Biggest mistake a consultant can make is to make it feel like you are giving an order, in which case the actual real management will feel as if their authority threatened and ignore you, no matter how good your ideas are.

Management consist of people, not robots, threat them like this (although I think the people in Ferrari management have had enough chances)

#35 HP

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:41

Originally posted by tifosi
What the hell was going on in that garage?

In one word pride.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74240

Once they saw the lap times coming down there was no time to do a lap anymore.

#36 Racing Dutchman

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:41

Originally posted by Madras


Is there a Ferrari strategist?

Yes, he is called El Saboteuro

#37 KAus

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:42

Originally posted by Madras


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Now you're on the trolley :lol:

#38 tifosi

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:43

Originally posted by HP

In one word pride.


Once they saw the lap times coming down there was no time to do a lap anymore.


I (snd Speed) saw it at about the 8 minute mark. What qualifying session were they watching? It was pretty obvious by then that Massa's time was dead in the water.

#39 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:44

Originally posted by HP

In one word pride.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74240

Once they saw the lap times coming down there was no time to do a lap anymore.


Not pride, lack of concentration. Sitting at home watching the BBC internet feed I was able to see that Massa needed to go out again. When Piquet, who was 9th, with Massa 8th, went out, that was the signal for Massa to go out. It's just sheer incompitance by the decision makers at Ferrari.

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#40 Racing Dutchman

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:44

Ferrari was doing a Kimi

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#41 KAus

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:45

Originally posted by Racing Dutchman

Yes, he is called El Saboteuro


He must have been promoted as I thought he was still manning the fuel rig ;)

#42 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:45

Originally posted by tifosi


I (snd Speed) saw it at about the 8 minute mark. What qualifying session were they watching? It was pretty obvious by then that Massa's time was dead in the water.


Not the 8 minute mark, but certainly around 3 minutes to go it was getting dicey.

#43 stevewf1

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:46

I still think Ferrari are "basically there". Maybe not the super-team of a few years past, but I think "something happened" with Massa's car and Ferrari just aren't letting us know everything...

#44 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:48

Originally posted by Madras


Not pride, lack of concentration. Sitting at home watching the BBC internet feed I was able to see that Massa needed to go out again. When Piquet, who was 9th, with Massa 8th, went out, that was the signal for Massa to go out. It's just sheer incompitance by the decision makers at Ferrari.


Yet you are unemployed, you would think with that kind of insight you would be sought after among the teams.

Massa was a second off the fastest time, they called it wrong. I guess very few people thought his time was ever in question.

#45 HP

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:49

Originally posted by Madras


Is there a Ferrari strategist?

Luca Baldisseri

#46 Racing Dutchman

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:51

Originally posted by KAus


He must have been promoted as I thought he was still manning the fuel rig ;)

No, they 'solved' that problem by giving El Saboteuro a even more important position

#47 HP

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:51

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Yet you are unemployed, you would think with that kind of insight you would be sought after among the teams.

Massa was a second off the fastest time, they called it wrong. I guess very few people thought his time was ever in question.

Well I was uneasy, when I saw they didn't come out, while Massa was only 0.6 seconds away from being eliminated, I thought, hope they know what they are doing...

#48 Racing Dutchman

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:53

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Yet you are unemployed, you would think with that kind of insight you would be sought after among the teams.

Massa was a second off the fastest time, they called it wrong. I guess very few people thought his time was ever in question.

Why would the Ferrari crew risk their jobs by allowing actual smart people into the decision making? Makes them look bad. Now they can all at least say it was a team mistake. Pretty hard when one person IS doing a good job.

#49 Madras

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:53

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


Yet you are unemployed, you would think with that kind of insight you would be sought after among the teams.

Massa was a second off the fastest time, they called it wrong. I guess very few people thought his time was ever in question.


I'm not unemployed, that was in 2007 when I joined. Your final sentence is wrong, most people watching the qualifying saw it. The gap from fastest is completely irrelevant in this type of situation, you must have been looking at the wrong end of the table like the Ferarri guys.

#50 KAus

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 11:54

Originally posted by Racing Dutchman

No, they 'solved' that problem by giving El Saboteuro a even more important position


Well, a few more f*ck ups like that and he'll be running FIAT !!!