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I think Webber will be a Force India driver in 2010


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#1 Handwashed

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 04:55

I don't think Mark will still have a future at RedBull after being owned by Vettel all season, but Vijay Mallya would probably want to get rid of Fisichella at the end of the year and Mark would be a decent enough replacement for a team like that. Sutil will probably also be shown the door, so one way or another I think there will be space for MW to fit into Force India.

Right?

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#2 PassWind

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 05:00

Whats your middle name Nostradamus?!

#3 27GV

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 05:01

No. He's far from getting owned. If I remember rightly only one of the pair finished with 4 wheels in Australia and in Quali in Malaysia if you take into account fuel loads they were about even, Vettel only had about a thimble full.

Stop trying to troll.

#4 Gag Bueno

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 05:15

Hmmm... I think Webber will be a Force Australia (V8's, better than falling down from a bike) driver next year...

#5 Handwashed

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 05:17

Originally posted by Gagá Bueno
Hmmm... I think Webber will be a Force Australia (V8's, better than falling down from a bike) driver next year...

No, I think Webber still has at least another two seasons of F1 left in his career, albeit in a lesser team.

#6 Mauseri

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 05:53

I think Webber will stau Red Bull. I dont think he is champion material, but anyway, fast he is and poeple will realize Vettel isnt that special.

#7 Bluesmoke

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:13

Originally posted by micra_k10
I think Webber will stau Red Bull. I dont think he is champion material, but anyway, fast he is and poeple will realize Vettel isnt that special.


If Newey can make a fast and reliable car, Vettel will dominate the champion within 2 years.

10 years from now, we'll be talking about him closing in on Schumaker's 7 title record.

There's a genuine humilty, intelligence and maturity to the kid. He has the confidence and speed to do so. His wet driving is proof enough.

#8 KAus

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:21

What I don't understand is, even taking into account the single digit IQ of many posters, is that if Vettel is 'the next Schumacher' and he beats Webber, that doesn't mean Webber is finished in F1 (or consigned to a back marker team). It probably would mean the end of his hopes of getting into a top car (unless it happens to be Red Bull) but I think that chance is gone already :(

Pretty even so far this year too...

#9 DiStefano

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:55

Vettel owning?

Do you realize that Webber outqualified him fuel corrected?

#10 wonk123

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 07:00

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Considering Webber is not even aty 100% fitness, and that in just about every session they are swapping fastest times... then either Vettel is NOT the next Schumacher or Webber is the equal best driver getting around in F1.

MW will be at RBR next year.. who unless the DD diffuser is banned will be high midfield again

My Tip for this year is MW to beat SV 60% in qualifying and to score more points with SV crashing far too often

#11 taran

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 07:35

It's far too early to suggest vettel will own Webber. But it would be fair to say Webber is up for the fight of his career. If he does well (beats or matches the highly regarded Vettel), his stock will rise considerably as there have always been question marks about his ultimate ability. Maybe not enough to make it to a genuine top team at his age but he finally would be an established peddler in the Heidfeld/Coulthard/Fisichella mold.

If he is beaten soundly by Vettel, his career would indeed be damaged. By how much would be anybody's guess but a place at RBR or any other midfield team would be doubtful because at that point, his strengths would be considered similar to a Coulthard or Fisichella in their later years, e.g. experience, reasonable ability and a benchmark. That's an attractive package for a back marker team or start up team but not necessarily for a mid field team.

How will it all pan out? Very difficult to say. Webber's reputation (IMO) is not that good when faced with a rapid team mate. When paired with Heidfeld and later Rosberg, he clashed repeatedly with his team. That was put down to disappointment with the Williams' competitiveness but his Red Bull was not that much better. Yet there were no problems there......perhaps due to Coulthard being slower than Mark.....???

#12 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 08:04

Originally posted by Handwashed
I don't think Mark will still have a future at RedBull after being owned by Vettel all season, but Vijay Mallya would probably want to get rid of Fisichella at the end of the year and Mark would be a decent enough replacement for a team like that. Sutil will probably also be shown the door, so one way or another I think there will be space for MW to fit into Force India.

Right?


Dont be so cruel. :eek: Webbo deserves better than that. Lets wait and see how he matches up with Vettel by mid-season. Vettels reputation might be taking a battering by then, for noit being able to dispatch Webber regular enough.

#13 Mauseri

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 08:17

Originally posted by Bluesmoke


If Newey can make a fast and reliable car, Vettel will dominate the champion within 2 years.

10 years from now, we'll be talking about him closing in on Schumaker's 7 title record.

There's a genuine humilty, intelligence and maturity to the kid. He has the confidence and speed to do so. His wet driving is proof enough.

I didnt say Vettel isnt a talent. A god he isnt. Considering the F1 is heading towards a spec series, he has almost no hope of catching the results of Schumacher. Remember Hamilton will stay around for years, Alonso and kubica arent finished yet, Button and Kimi might still score a championship, ...

Oh and no need to bash Webber. He deserves place in F1 and I guess at the end of the season bashers will also understand he deserves better than Force India.

#14 krapmeister

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 08:20

Originally posted by taran
It's far too early to suggest vettel will own Webber. But it would be fair to say Webber is up for the fight of his career. If he does well (beats or matches the highly regarded Vettel), his stock will rise considerably as there have always been question marks about his ultimate ability. Maybe not enough to make it to a genuine top team at his age but he finally would be an established peddler in the Heidfeld/Coulthard/Fisichella mold.

If he is beaten soundly by Vettel, his career would indeed be damaged. By how much would be anybody's guess but a place at RBR or any other midfield team would be doubtful because at that point, his strengths would be considered similar to a Coulthard or Fisichella in their later years, e.g. experience, reasonable ability and a benchmark. That's an attractive package for a back marker team or start up team but not necessarily for a mid field team.

How will it all pan out? Very difficult to say. Webber's reputation (IMO) is not that good when faced with a rapid team mate. When paired with Heidfeld and later Rosberg, he clashed repeatedly with his team. That was put down to disappointment with the Williams' competitiveness but his Red Bull was not that much better. Yet there were no problems there......perhaps due to Coulthard being slower than Mark.....???


I agree that it is too early to judge who is going to beat who in the RedBull team - we haven't even had a 2 races yet lol...

But was he clashing that much with the Williams team in 06? Definately in 05 - especially when he realised that the car wasn't going to be what he expected - but I was under the impression that the relationship between him and the team in 06 was better.

#15 krapmeister

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 08:21

Originally posted by micra_k10
...Oh and no need to bash Webber. He deserves place in F1 and I guess at the end of the season bashers will also understand he deserves better than Force India.


:up:

#16 primer

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 08:27

Will Farce india still be around in 2010? :cat:

#17 krapmeister

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 08:29

Originally posted by primer
Will Farce india still be around in 2010? :cat:


Hmm...that is an interesting question.

Will Vijay be happy with possibly tooling around at the back after the linkup with Merc/Mclaren?

I get the impression that he expects results and if he doesn't get them, he's not happy Jan...

#18 Madras

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 08:36

Originally posted by krapmeister


Hmm...that is an interesting question.

Will Vijay be happy with possibly tooling around at the back after the linkup with Merc/Mclaren?

I get the impression that he expects results and if he doesn't get them, he's not happy Jan...


Yeah I doubt he's too happy with this year's car. He's also trying to offload Whyte & Mackay that's why they are advertised on his cars, he bought them in 2007 for £595m and he'll be lucky to get £200m for them now. His business is not doing so well these days.

#19 krapmeister

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 08:38

Originally posted by Madras


Yeah I doubt he's too happy with this year's car. He's also trying to offload Whyte & Mackay that's why they are advertised on his cars, he bought them in 2007 for £595m and he'll be lucky to get £200m for them now. His business is not doing so well these days.


Yeah - he's taken a huge hit with the GFC. I can certainly see him offloading FI at the end of the season.

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#20 27GV

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 14:34

Originally posted by Bluesmoke

His wet driving is proof enough.


Spinning off twice. Great effort! :clap:

#21 RoutariEnjinu

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 14:39

I'd like to see Webber get a win this year. Maybe that car with a redesigned rear for a sneaky diffuser might leap frog the Toyotas and Brawns. It's the fastest "stupid people" diffuser, and seemed good in the wet.

#22 pedrovski

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 16:25

Webber looked amateurish against Hamilton though, had a much faster car and went off twice trying to go past him, Hamilton showed him whose boss, and over the whole season I reckon Vettel will too.

#23 Dunc

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 16:34

Originally posted by micra_k10
... he has almost no hope of catching the results of Schumacher. Remember Hamilton will stay around for years, Alonso and kubica arent finished yet, Button and Kimi might still score a championship, ...


Totally agree. Vettel is awesome but with the level of competition now in F1 I seriously doubt anyone is going to beat Shumi's championship record anytime in the next decade (which is a good thing IMHO).

#24 Anomnader

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 16:42

Where is all the uber-admiration for Vettal coming from?

He is good, but I think he is in danger of getting too hyped and getting damaged.

Nothing has happened this season yet to have shown him much better then Webber

#25 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 17:01

Originally posted by Handwashed
after being owned by Vettel all season, .

Right?



hmm..... IIRC one of them has exited both races this season before the chequered (or red) flag....

#26 lwd

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 17:04

Originally posted by pedrovski
Webber looked amateurish against Hamilton though, had a much faster car and went off twice trying to go past him, Hamilton showed him whose boss, and over the whole season I reckon Vettel will too.


He DID pass Hamilton though, just took him a little while as Hamilton has KERS which he didn't.

#27 Blythy

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 17:08

worst speculative bullshit on this forum for a long time.

#28 pedrovski

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 17:12

Originally posted by lwd


He DID pass Hamilton though, just took him a little while as Hamilton has KERS which he didn't.


The straights weren't the problem the corners were though. :p

I don't think there's a big difference in laptime between Webber and Vettel but Webber has the knack of screwing up when he's on for a great result. Over a season I'd bet on vettel despite his dodgy start.

#29 Willy_Wonka

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 17:19

I realy dont care for webber at all, mouth so and so, but that being said, i dont see anything for him to fear in vettel.
Another uberhype youngster, he makes to many mistakes in my opinion.
He can be quick, but i think he could go the way jenson did when he was young and couldnt handle the hype that was pushed onto him.

#30 Handwashed

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 18:42

Vettel is easily the driver every team wants right now. All the commentators and journos single him out, and they know what they're talking about.

#31 Anomnader

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 18:45

Originally posted by Handwashed
Vettel is easily the driver every team wants right now. All the commentators and journos single him out, and they know what they're talking about.


Do they? Can anyone confirm?

Yeah, Vettels ok, but I've yet to see what makes him better the Rosberg, Webber, Massa, Kubica let alone Kimi, Lewis or Alonso

Its all promise, same as it is with Rosberg, but one day they have to start delivering what they promise.

#32 Handwashed

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 18:50

Originally posted by Anomnader


Do they? Can anyone confirm?

Yeah, Vettels ok, but I've yet to see what makes him better the Rosberg, Webber, Massa, Kubica let alone Kimi, Lewis or Alonso

Its all promise, same as it is with Rosberg, but one day they have to start delivering what they promise.


Yes they do; just watch races on ITV/BBC and read mags like F1 Racing and Autosport... they all go on about Vettel as the hottest property.

Rosberg was rated for about 2 races in 2006, since then not many people mention his name. Webber was hyped up at Jaguar but then disappointed at Williams, we all know about Massa, Kubica is another driver the experts go on and on about, we know how good Alonso is and Raikkonen was brilliant but now he's not really interested by the looks of things.

#33 Dalek Caan

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 18:52

Originally posted by Anomnader
Where is all the uber-admiration for Vettal coming from?

He is good, but I think he is in danger of getting too hyped and getting damaged.

Nothing has happened this season yet to have shown him much better then Webber


He did win a race in a 'Minardi'. He did finish 4th in Shanghai 2007 in what was only his 6th race (again in a 'Minardi'). He did dominate Bourdais in 2008, ok not exactly difficult, but when a youngster dominates a seasoned racing champion in his first full year of F1 then of course people will talk about it.

I also made the point yesterday that Vettel has been very clever in his career train. Starting as a Toro Rosso young driver, he progressed to the parent team, and has made it public that he wants to drive for Ferrari. As long as he carries on impressing his employers (such as Marko) he will get to Maranello because of the links between the teams. Once there, it will be Schumacher all over again.

On the other side of the coin, I admit that the world's media like Vettel because he dedicates a lot of time to them, he drives for a fun-loving team (and Toro Rosso last year), plus is a polyglot, speaking upto 5 or 6 European languages fluently - including Italian. It's not just his talent that gets him in the limelight, but boy he does have it in abundance anyway!

#34 Handwashed

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 18:54

Originally posted by Dalek Caan


He did win a race in a 'Minardi'. He did finish 4th in Shanghai 2007 in what was only his 6th race (again in a 'Minardi'). He did dominate Bourdais in 2008, ok not exactly difficult, but when a youngster dominates a seasoned racing champion in his first full year of F1 then of course people will talk about it.

I also made the point yesterday that Vettel has been very clever in his career train. Starting as a Toro Rosso young driver, he progressed to the parent team, and has made it public that he wants to drive for Ferrari. As long as he carries on impressing his employers (such as Marko) he will get to Maranello because of the links between the teams.

Vettel is surely set for a Ferrari drive in the very near future.

#35 Supersleeper

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 21:29

Originally posted by Handwashed
I don't think Mark will still have a future at RedBull after being owned by Vettel all season, but Vijay Mallya would probably want to get rid of Fisichella at the end of the year and Mark would be a decent enough replacement for a team like that. Sutil will probably also be shown the door, so one way or another I think there will be space for MW to fit into Force India.

Right?


He spoke on the Thursday night prior to the OZ GP to a group of us and said "there's no way I want to run around in the midfield forever. I don't want to end up like Fisi. I'd rather go and do something else."

He's reinterated this a number of times. So sorry - he won't be driving for Force India - he'd be more likely to buy a 125, 250 or Moto GP team.....as stated as an ambition of his.

So it's wonderful that you think he will end up at Force India. I can only hope that as a Force India supporter you're not too dissapointed when this doesn't happen.

#36 Melbourne Park

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 23:22

This is not the season to judge Mark Webber. Unless the FIA leaves the minimum weight and the tyre balance the same next year. If the tyres and the minimum weight are the same, then MW, Kubica and such weighted drivers will have to leave F1. But its stupid to compare MW this year in a car that Adrian Newey has said, MW will not be competitive with in KERS configuration, and possibly its current configuration.

No ones knows either the issues with MW's body - which may also effect his confidence, which is a normal issue with injury recovery.

So wait until next year's season in order to judge MW.

If they leave the tyres and the car weight alone though, MW won't be racing F1 next year, because he's already too heavy for the sport. If you look at the physical dweabs that race F1, most really should be jockeys. But maybe they picked motor racing, because its so much safer.

#37 Handwashed

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:34

Originally posted by Supersleeper

So it's wonderful that you think he will end up at Force India. I can only hope that as a Force India supporter you're not too dissapointed when this doesn't happen.

Sorry but as a life-long Ferrari supporter for over 25 years I don't think I qualify as a McLaren B-team fanboy. :lol: :wave:

#38 sanjiro

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:48

Well it was good to see that whilst Vettel was owning him, Mark was faster in the dry by 0.8s and so much faster in the wet its not even worth making a comparison.
Yep Vettel sure showed Mark who was boss as he slid off the track.

Why am I responding to this most stupid of threads.... boredom.

SV and MW are so close in pace its hard to separate them in Q and only race strategy and randomness has made the difference in the few races we have had so far.

#39 taran

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:46

I really don't understand the negativism in this (and other treads). The future of Webber's career (or any other driver( is a valid discussion point for a F1 forum and Webber is teamed with a highly regarded youngster who has already won a race and is likely being eyed by the big teams.

So speculating about his performance compared to Vettel is indeed very kosher IMO.

If you don't like the thread, why bother responding? Nobody is forcing you to respond. Or read it in the first place. Just vote with your feet (or mouse) and walk away. Those of us who do wish to discuss the topic will thank you for it.

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#40 wonk123

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 10:49

Maybe the thread should be titled

"Will Sebastien Vettel have a drive after this year?"

Whilst looking reasonably fast in qualifying, Vettel has been Ordinary in the face of a very fast team mate. Even though he is recovering from injury Webber has put so much pressure on Vettel he has made driving errors and has failed to finish a race.
The Star that promised to shine so bright may go the way of Antonio Pizzona, who also promised so much!
The German fans who were hoping for a new Schumacher have been left dissapointed again.

Vettels one small hope is that Matesich will be kind to him after his sole win at Monza and send him back to Torro Rosso.



:lol: :rotfl:

Yes I know it's a joke but has a similar chance of being correct as the Webber to FI

maybe if you dont like that thread you could vote with your feet :p

#41 krapmeister

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:01

Originally posted by taran
I really don't understand the negativism in this (and other treads). The future of Webber's career (or any other driver( is a valid discussion point for a F1 forum and Webber is teamed with a highly regarded youngster who has already won a race and is likely being eyed by the big teams.

So speculating about his performance compared to Vettel is indeed very kosher IMO.

If you don't like the thread, why bother responding? Nobody is forcing you to respond. Or read it in the first place. Just vote with your feet (or mouse) and walk away. Those of us who do wish to discuss the topic will thank you for it.


Well I'll try again, seeing as my last post has mysteriously disappeared into the ether lol...

Yes - Mark's future is a valid discussion point, as are most drivers competing this year.

However the OP is basically writing him off already and proclaiming the Vettel will completely dominate him this season, thus consigning Mark to FI obscurity. I think what has a few people's hackles up is that we are now only 1.5 races into the season, and it is far too early to pass judgement on how either driver will perform through the whole year. It can be argued that Mark is currently outperforming Vettel, although it is probably pretty even actually.

Just as you are requesting other forum members to do, you can infact choose to ignore posts you don't like.

As for the negativity - nothing much more negative than writing a guy off before the season barely begun.

#42 pduncle

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:09

IMO, even if Webber does beat Vettel or match him this year im not sure if he will be kept at Red Bull (but i hope he does!)

Why?

It seems from all the press releases and interviews etc that the **** Helmut Marko (who is basically the right-hand man to the big guy Mateschitz) is not a very big fan of Webber. He always seems bitter about Webber for some odd reason, and some things he says were quite outrageous, like 'too bad webber just has to adapt to vettel's style' and saying the Vettel is a driver that can actually be quick (and disregarding Webber).

The right-hand man to Mateshitz would most likely get things his way. Marko seems to hold Vettel with a god-like status or something. Sure he recruited Vettel but c'mon, way to put down your other drivers! I recall Marko saying some sort of bullcrap about DC too which was not acceptable.

Horner is also jumping on the Vettel bandwagon. Way to go. But yeh my main problem is Marko. FFS that guy did nothing when he was racing anyway!

Just hope Webber can get a win and couple of podiums this year and either matches or beats Vettel just to shut Marko up. That tosser.

#43 krapmeister

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:28

Originally posted by pduncle
IMO, even if Webber does beat Vettel or match him this year im not sure if he will be kept at Red Bull (but i hope he does!)

Why?

It seems from all the press releases and interviews etc that the **** Helmut Marko (who is basically the right-hand man to the big guy Mateschitz) is not a very big fan of Webber. He always seems bitter about Webber for some odd reason, and some things he says were quite outrageous, like 'too bad webber just has to adapt to vettel's style' and saying the Vettel is a driver that can actually be quick (and disregarding Webber).

The right-hand man to Mateshitz would most likely get things his way. Marko seems to hold Vettel with a god-like status or something. Sure he recruited Vettel but c'mon, way to put down your other drivers! I recall Marko saying some sort of bullcrap about DC too which was not acceptable.

Horner is also jumping on the Vettel bandwagon. Way to go. But yeh my main problem is Marko. FFS that guy did nothing when he was racing anyway!

Just hope Webber can get a win and couple of podiums this year and either matches or beats Vettel just to shut Marko up. That tosser.


Marko obviously has his own barrow to push. But what you say is a good point.

I just hope Mark makes it very hard for them to let him go - and if he does that, even if Marko gets his way, surely there will be another team wanting his services next year (and I don't mean FI...)

#44 Muzzinho

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 14:10

Unless Buemi has a terrific season then i dont think Webber will be let go at Red Bull, They would be crazy to IMO, They may even lose Vettel for next season!! Depending on Kimi then there may be a spot at Ferrari for Vettel or maybe even Mclaren if he performs well against mark. Or if Alonso goes to Ferrari then there will probably be 2 seats at renault next year. If Webber is not at Red Bull next year then he may go to one of the Renault seats.

Isnt having Mark a condition for Red Bulls Renault engines?

#45 PassWind

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:30

Originally posted by Muzzinho
Unless Buemi has a terrific season then i dont think Webber will be let go at Red Bull, They would be crazy to IMO, They may even lose Vettel for next season!! Depending on Kimi then there may be a spot at Ferrari for Vettel or maybe even Mclaren if he performs well against mark. Or if Alonso goes to Ferrari then there will probably be 2 seats at renault next year. If Webber is not at Red Bull next year then he may go to one of the Renault seats.

Isnt having Mark a condition for Red Bulls Renault engines?


Mmm I heard this rumour but Renault owns the engines not Flav so I cannot see how Flav could influence this as a manager and there not be something illegal about it.


Webber could be a good fit at Renault if they hang around in the sport, I am sure he enjoy driving with Alonso if he stays. Nelson just is not F1 material. But I tip that RBR will keep Webber for as long as he wants to drive. I think its a good system that RBR have and personally I don't want to be trying to develop 2 drivers at the same time. So say when Webber leaves they get someone like Massa, or even Kimi on the team. Nico Rosberg could be an option if the big team wont coerce him though Williams is pretty close to breaking through.

#46 Alfisti

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:05

No way Webber drives with Alonso, Flav is not stupid. I'd steer well clear of Renault, they are gone as a force for a long time IMHO.

#47 race addicted

race addicted
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:07

Yep, he wont put two of his drivers - and certainly not Alonso and Webber - in the same team.
...but I've no doubt Webber will stay with Red Bull for a good few years. Probably till he hangs up his helmet.

#48 rdebourbon

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:07

Originally posted by Alfisti
No way Webber drives with Alonso, Flav is not stupid. I'd steer well clear of Renault, they are gone as a force for a long time IMHO.


I hope that Renault are not gone as a force for a long time - not because I am a Renault fan - but because Renault are well known to expect track results for their contribution - and if the results are not forthcoming, will pull out. They already threatened this a few years ago....

#49 GhostR

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:13

Originally posted by race addicted
Yep, he wont put two of his drivers - and certainly not Alonso and Webber - in the same team.
...but I've no doubt Webber will stay with Red Bull for a good few years. Probably till he hangs up his helmet.


Except he wanted to do exactly that a few years back. Remember: Webber went against Flav's advice when he signed for Williams. If he'd taken the advice, he would have been in the second Renault alongside Alonso instead of Fisi.

#50 race addicted

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:19

Hmm, you're right! I knew that but had just forgotten. Thanks.