Jump to content


Photo

Will Button's WDC Be A Hollow Victory?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
53 replies to this topic

Poll: Will Button's WDC Be A Hollow Victory? (111 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Yes (21 votes [18.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.92%

  2. No (90 votes [81.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 81.08%

Vote

#1 rolf123

rolf123
  • Member

  • 2,331 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 00:57

I don't doubt that Button is a good driver but this year the only real competition will come from Barichello who has already shown himself in the last two races to be the no.2 driver that he always was.

So basically this season is going to look just like '92, when one car was just insanely good and Patrese was a poor teammate. I would say that '92 was Mansell's least impressive year of them all because there was zero pressure.

When Button wins nearly every race this year he won't have won the WDC in a pressure situation. At least Senna had Prost to contend with. And Button has never shown any signs at Honda, Williams or Renault of extracting incredible performances out of a bad car or dominating his teammates in the way that other WDCs have.

So a WDC with no competition or pressure, and no history of doing incredible things in inferior machinery. Will Button's WDC be a hollow victory?

Personally I think it will and I look forward to seeing performances further down the grid.

Advertisement

#2 Alfisti

Alfisti
  • Member

  • 26,596 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:00

Worst thread ever.

Try 2002, 2001, 2004 etc etc etc

#3 rolf123

rolf123
  • Member

  • 2,331 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:02

Originally posted by Alfisti
Worst thread ever.

Try 2002, 2001, 2004 etc etc etc


Big difference - you need to get new glasses because you obviously didn't read the post properly. We know from Benetton years that Schumi was already great. Even in '91 he was like Vettel is now, decimating his teammates. Remember Roberto Moreno? Most people have never heard of him!

Button has never done this. Even Mansell proved his mettle against the likes of 3xWDC Piquet.

#4 Ultra150

Ultra150
  • Member

  • 628 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:03

Sour grapes make for horrible whine.

#5 beanoid

beanoid
  • Member

  • 5,247 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:09

So what?

Last I checked, the rules (for now) say that whoever has the most points when November 2 dawns is the WDC.

This is the same farking argument we had in the bike thread in 2006. "Undeserving," "hollow victory," blah blah blah.

Collect points. Add 'em up. You have more than everyone else, you win. This isn't politics, where you get to vote for who you like best.

And--"zero pressure." What? Have you ever raced? Have you ever talked to anyone who races? Even when you're winning by 15 seconds, it's still not a "zero pressure" situation. Racing is hard work, particularly at this level--whether you're at the front of the grid or not.

#6 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,165 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:12

So if Jenson wins the WDC by beating Rubens by the same margin that Shumi did will it still be a hollow victory?

Well, only two races and already the Button backlash has begun...

#7 Zippel

Zippel
  • Member

  • 1,031 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:13

Originally posted by rolf123


Big difference - you need to get new glasses because you obviously didn't read the post properly. We know from Benetton years that Schumi was already great. Even in '91 he was like Vettel is now, decimating his teammates. Remember Roberto Moreno? Most people have never heard of him!

Button has never done this. Even Mansell proved his mettle against the likes of 3xWDC Piquet.


Button didn't have a consistently top 4 car like Schumacher did. Button proved he had the consistency to be at the top end in 2004 as long as the car is right.

#8 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,165 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:21

Originally posted by rolf123
When Button wins nearly every race this year he won't have won the WDC in a pressure situation.


And this is especially odd... the first two races have seen safety cars, a setting sun, and a monsoon. Hardly what the doctor ordered for a team with the best car - he could have easily made one of the many mistakes his competitors have made, but he hasn't.

#9 brunopascal

brunopascal
  • Member

  • 1,356 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:23

Originally posted by rolf123


Big difference - you need to get new glasses because you obviously didn't read the post properly. We know from Benetton years that Schumi was already great. Even in '91 he was like Vettel is now, decimating his teammates. Remember Roberto Moreno? Most people have never heard of him!

Button has never done this. Even Mansell proved his mettle against the likes of 3xWDC Piquet.

I'd say Button was pretty decent in 2003, beating WDC-Villeneuve, and in 2004 basically the only challenger to Ferrari and was very consistent scored a lot of podiums. Second half of 2006, I think Button scored the most points or smth.

Finally he's lucky to be in a front running car, and he earns it. Those laps when he passed Trulli & Rosberg thru the pitstops where reminiscent of MS.

I'd say if he win it, he will have earned it.

#10 rolf123

rolf123
  • Member

  • 2,331 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:26

Jeez, some of you take it personally as if I had insulted your mothers! :rotfl: :rotfl:

Please think logically and not like a thicko boy racer young, dumb and full of cum.

Bruno's is the only thought out answer so far.

#11 Lazy Prodigy

Lazy Prodigy
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:32

No.

#12 GregAU

GregAU
  • Member

  • 524 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:38

Originally posted by rolf123


like Vettel is now, decimating his teammates.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#13 molive

molive
  • Member

  • 9,794 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:39

Originally posted by Alfisti
Worst thread ever.

Try 2002, 2001, 2004 etc etc etc


Indeed.

#14 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,165 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:46

Originally posted by rolf123
Jeez, some of you take it personally as if I had insulted your mothers! :rotfl: :rotfl:

Please think logically and not like a thicko boy racer young, dumb and full of cum.

Bruno's is the only thought out answer so far.


Pot. Kettle. Black.

Read my posts again and tell me there's no logic.

#15 Zippel

Zippel
  • Member

  • 1,031 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:50

Originally posted by rolf123
Jeez, some of you take it personally as if I had insulted your mothers! :rotfl: :rotfl:

Please think logically and not like a thicko boy racer young, dumb and full of cum.

Bruno's is the only thought out answer so far.


How's that petition of yours going? :lol: :up:

#16 rolf123

rolf123
  • Member

  • 2,331 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 02:04

Originally posted by tkulla

Pot. Kettle. Black.


Prove it.

Originally posted by tkulla

Read my posts again and tell me there's no logic.


OK.

Originally posted by tkulla

And this is especially odd... the first two races have seen safety cars, a setting sun, and a monsoon. Hardly what the doctor ordered for a team with the best car - he could have easily made one of the many mistakes his competitors have made, but he hasn't.


A monsoon? Don't be ridiculous. I've lived in the Far-East and that wasn't a monsoon that hit the circuit. It was a rain shower. The race would have been called off if there was a monsoon. Let's not forget the extra downforce the Brawn car has either.

Safety cars? Since when does a safety car make a race difficult? It might instantly erase your advantage but when your car is the class of the field and you've been sandbagging then a safety car doesn't pose any threat. Let's get real here

A setting sun? Get real, no driver ended the race or made a mistake because of this.

You don't need to be a great driver or even WDC material to easily win in that Brawn.


Next time, engage your brain, mate. Use logic and take your fanboy glasses off.

#17 beanoid

beanoid
  • Member

  • 5,247 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 06 April 2009 - 02:23

Originally posted by rolf123
Jeez, some of you take it personally as if I had insulted your mothers! :rotfl: :rotfl:

Please think logically and not like a thicko boy racer young, dumb and full of cum.

Bruno's is the only thought out answer so far.


I am far from a "fanperson" of Button. I support Alonso, and have done so for years.

However, I fail to see how the computation of simple maths, as my post above explains, makes my post illogical. And I'm still not sure where this inference comes from that Button has had "zero pressure," as tkulla attempted to briefly explain.

But, you know, whatever. I actually quite enjoy seeing underdogs at the top, for a change, and watching someone different on top of the podium who's pretty down to earth.

#18 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,165 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 06 April 2009 - 02:25

Originally posted by rolf123

A monsoon? Don't be ridiculous. I've lived in the Far-East and that wasn't a monsoon that hit the circuit. It was a rain shower. The race would have been called off if there was a monsoon. Let's not forget the extra downforce the Brawn car has either.



Oh, okay. It was just a little rain shower... that ENDED the race.


Safety cars? Since when does a safety car make a race difficult? It might instantly erase your advantage but when your car is the class of the field and you've been sandbagging then a safety car doesn't pose any threat. Let's get real here



Yeah, losing a big lead and having a rolling restart on cold tyres and brakes is a no pressure situation (especially when one of your competitors is on the much preferred tyre).

A setting sun? Get real, no driver ended the race or made a mistake because of this.



Yeah, I'm sure having to look directly into a low sun is a lot of fun at 300kph. It may not be as tough do deal with as a "rain shower" but it sure doesn't make life easier.

You don't need to be a great driver or even WDC material to easily win in that Brawn.


Translated: I'm annoyed that Button has been so impressive so I started this thread to try to diminish what he's done so far.

Next time, engage your brain, mate. Use logic and take your fanboy glasses off.


Read your own post title. The answer to anyone who "engages their brain" is that there is no such thing as a hollow WDC. If he wins it he'll at the very least have to overcome Rubens in a truly fair fight. If you want to claim that Shumi's championships were "hollow" when he had the best car (2004, etc) then man-up and say so.

#19 Schuperman

Schuperman
  • Member

  • 1,745 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 06 April 2009 - 02:33

Originally posted by rolf123
So a WDC with no competition or pressure, and no history of doing incredible things in inferior machinery. Will Button's WDC be a hollow victory?


A WDC with no competition IMO shows a quality of a great champion.

While Brawn GP is so superior in the hands of JB, Rubens was struggling in the race today.

To answer the question, Jenson has long been touted as a champion in the making. And now he gets the car to get the job done. I hope he will. He deserves it.

Advertisement

#20 wepmob2000

wepmob2000
  • Member

  • 709 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 06 April 2009 - 02:38

Historically, most world champs have had the best car, or at least one of the best, and often team orders have come into play. Remove all the 'hollow' world champion victories and you'll end up with a very short list of 'worthy' world champs..... If it was as easy as turning up with the best car to win a WDC, everyone would be doing it.... Probably the pressure is even more so when a driver does have the best car, winning is expected and anything else is a failure.

Jenosn seems to have stepped up to the mark, and he's totally dominating his team-mate now he's actually got a decent car, and no way is Rubens a slouch - far from it.

#21 bobqzzi

bobqzzi
  • Member

  • 360 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 06 April 2009 - 02:42

No, don't be ridiculous

#22 J2NH

J2NH
  • Member

  • 1,378 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 06 April 2009 - 02:55

Agree with:
bobqzzi
wepmob2000
Schuperman
tkulla
beanoid
Zippel
molive
GregAU
Lazy Prodigy
brunopascal
Ultra150
Alfisti

We are two races (okay 1.5) races into the season and Jenson Button has yet to put a foot wrong. To assume that Button will be WDC and then to further suggest it will be "hollow" is a disservice to all of the other teams on the grid. I would not be so quick to discount Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull, BMW, or Renault. All are capable teams and who is to say they will not respond and put Jenson and Brawn on their heels in the coming races?

Good for Brawn and Jenson if at the end of the season he is the WDC. No matter the final points tally they will have earned it.

#23 DLaw

DLaw
  • Member

  • 1,613 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 06 April 2009 - 03:16

What a F**king stupid question.

#24 Slyder

Slyder
  • Member

  • 5,453 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 06 April 2009 - 03:57

Typical rolf, spouting his nonsensical blabbery, what did you people expect? :rolleyes:

#25 Kelateboy

Kelateboy
  • Member

  • 5,792 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 04:27

Originally posted by rolf123
I don't doubt that Button is a good driver but this year the only real competition will come from Barichello who has already shown himself in the last two races to be the no.2 driver that he always was.

So basically this season is going to look just like '92, when one car was just insanely good and Patrese was a poor teammate. I would say that '92 was Mansell's least impressive year of them all because there was zero pressure.

When Button wins nearly every race this year he won't have won the WDC in a pressure situation. At least Senna had Prost to contend with. And Button has never shown any signs at Honda, Williams or Renault of extracting incredible performances out of a bad car or dominating his teammates in the way that other WDCs have.

So a WDC with no competition or pressure, and no history of doing incredible things in inferior machinery. Will Button's WDC be a hollow victory?

Personally I think it will and I look forward to seeing performances further down the grid.

If Button becomes 2009 WDC, then he will be a deserving champion. There is no asterisk to this achievement.

The WDC is not a done deal - we are only 2 races into the season. As good as Brawn GP is, Toyota is just as competitive with RedBulls not far behind. If McLaren got its act together and manage to get the new diffuser ready by Spain, then Brawn GP will have a fight in its hands. Of course, you don't want Hamilton to be 34pts down on Button by the time the F1 moves to Europe.

-KB

#26 Kelateboy

Kelateboy
  • Member

  • 5,792 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 04:33

Originally posted by wepmob2000
Historically, most world champs have had the best car, or at least one of the best, and often team orders have come into play. Remove all the 'hollow' world champion victories and you'll end up with a very short list of 'worthy' world champs..... If it was as easy as turning up with the best car to win a WDC, everyone would be doing it.... Probably the pressure is even more so when a driver does have the best car, winning is expected and anything else is a failure.

Jenosn seems to have stepped up to the mark, and he's totally dominating his team-mate now he's actually got a decent car, and no way is Rubens a slouch - far from it.

Any worthy champion that drove a Dog to the WDC?

-JB

#27 Galka

Galka
  • Member

  • 300 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 06 April 2009 - 05:13

That's called jealousy.

#28 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,311 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 06 April 2009 - 05:24

Assuming things stay roughly the way they are, which I have no reason to doubt they shall; I think Button will win a championship that is massively impressive statistically, but won't be remembered as one of the great seasons. It will be Mansell'esque, minus Nigel's previous form.

#29 Ricardo F1

Ricardo F1
  • Member

  • 38,486 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 06 April 2009 - 05:35

WTF? If you don't already comprehend that Button is a damn good racing driver, hmm, 2004 comes to mind, then you're a fricking idiot who clearly has no idea about the sport. Rolf.

#30 stairpotato

stairpotato
  • Member

  • 430 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 06 April 2009 - 05:43

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
WTF? If you don't already comprehend that Button is a damn good racing driver, hmm, 2004 comes to mind, then you're a fricking idiot who clearly has no idea about the sport. Rolf.


In fairness to Rolf in the first line of the first post he does say that Button is good....

...though you're right - he clearly has no idea about the sport, amongst his other failings.

#31 e34fanatic

e34fanatic
  • Member

  • 182 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 06 April 2009 - 05:57

Originally posted by rolf123


Big difference - you need to get new glasses because you obviously didn't read the post properly. We know from Benetton years that Schumi was already great. Even in '91 he was like Vettel is now, decimating his teammates. Remember Roberto Moreno? Most people have never heard of him!

Button has never done this. Even Mansell proved his mettle against the likes of 3xWDC Piquet.


I did not bother to read this thread intensively. But it must be said, that Roberto Moreno has had much following during his lengthy career across the globe. "Pupo" was highly popular driver and it was always pleasure to see him driving. Sure he wasn´t superstar like Mansell. However it is fair to say that in racing circles Roberto and his personality together with his career is fondly remembered and respected.

#32 Mika Mika

Mika Mika
  • Member

  • 6,738 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 05:59

No - quite the opposite being on how they nearly didn't make it to the grid in the 1st place.

#33 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,516 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 06 April 2009 - 06:39

Oh!, I say, well done old bean you have started a thread and poll. :rolleyes:

#34 Tomerell

Tomerell
  • Member

  • 1,333 posts
  • Joined: November 98

Posted 06 April 2009 - 06:43

Why would you call Mansel's WDC hollow :confused: any driver that can hang in F1 so long to wait for the right machinery is more than worthy CHAMPION in my eyes.

So simple the answer to a "simple" question is NO Jenson would be a very worthy champion if he manages to win the WDC this year :up:

#35 Madras

Madras
  • Member

  • 3,911 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 06:44

Mansell 1992
Prost 1993

#36 ashnathan

ashnathan
  • Member

  • 5,018 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 06:46

Rolf123 is already known to be one of the biggest jokes on this forum why prove it more so than already before. You are horrible at winning and losing, and your constant whinging when Ferrari isn't winning is horrendous. I don't think F1 is the sport for you my friend.

#37 ashnathan

ashnathan
  • Member

  • 5,018 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 06:48

Ps. How many hollow WDC's has your beloved Schumacher have notched on his belt then? 3? Or more?

#38 Gareth

Gareth
  • RC Forum Host

  • 11,023 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:09

Originally posted by Ultra150
Sour grapes make for horrible whine.

:up: :lol:

#39 Handwashed

Handwashed
  • Member

  • 87 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:13

So after 1.5 races we're already calling the WDC to Button, are we? God I love this forum sometimes. :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Advertisement

#40 djellison

djellison
  • Member

  • 1,725 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:24

Originally posted by Slyder
what did you people expect? :rolleyes:


More people to add him to their ignore lists. It makes for a better forum.

#41 airwise

airwise
  • Member

  • 2,001 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:44

Originally posted by rolf123


Big difference - you need to get new glasses because you obviously didn't read the post properly. We know from Benetton years that Schumi was already great. Even in '91 he was like Vettel is now, decimating his teammates. Remember Roberto Moreno? Most people have never heard of him!


Remember he was with holding setup information from his teammates at Benetton from day one. I remember Herbert pretty much matching him first time out - only to be denied access to any of Schuey's data from then on. And Brundle caused him concerns over a race distance on more than one occasion. Take the rose tinted specs off and remember the facts please.

#42 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,376 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:53

And the OP wonders why he gets called a troll so often. :rolleyes:

#43 Motormedia

Motormedia
  • Member

  • 2,024 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:57

I'm surprised to see how many seem to think the WDC is a foregone conclusion. Brawn and Button is on a roll right now, they do have the best car on the grid, but things will change over the season. The margins are not that big. A slip up in qualifying and Button could find himself sixth on the grid, out of the podium, another driver bridges the points gap and all of a sudden, Button and Brawn will come under a different kind of pressure and that will put further pressure from within Button and the team. If Button keeps his stuff together and wins the WDC, it certainly won't be a more hollow victory than others. To be able to deliver when there is actually something to deliver, that's what makes a champion.

#44 wewantourdarbyback

wewantourdarbyback
  • Member

  • 6,358 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:23

A topic with no OP... suspicious ;)

#45 TickTickBooom

TickTickBooom
  • Member

  • 1,043 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:52

I'm not even going to say anything. This thread is beyond pathetic.

#46 lokiman

lokiman
  • Member

  • 1,706 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:59

Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback
A topic with no OP... suspicious ;)


:rotfl:

#47 Arion

Arion
  • Member

  • 2,353 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:03

Depends if he wins another WDC with more competition. I know where the OP is coming from, the same thing has been asked on Damon Hill and JV.

#48 Jambo

Jambo
  • Member

  • 2,065 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:06

Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback
A topic with no OP... suspicious ;)


I love the way it starts, Worst thread ever!

#49 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,337 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:08

21 people voted yes. I assume they were confused between the options.

#50 rolf123

rolf123
  • Member

  • 2,331 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:24

What's incredible is that yet more people are thinking with their balls rather than their brains.

Well, in the interests of the silent minority (20%) who feel the same way I do, I'll counter each of your arguments with logic. You may not like to hear the truth and put me on your ignore list but sure, go ahead and keep doing what your government tells you too.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Schuperman


A WDC with no competition IMO shows a quality of a great champion.

While Brawn GP is so superior in the hands of JB, Rubens was struggling in the race today.

To answer the question, Jenson has long been touted as a champion in the making. And now he gets the car to get the job done. I hope he will. He deserves it.
[/QUOTE]

No competition shows the quality of a great champion? Er do you want to re-read your statement??

Today's race is hardly a benchmark. Very unique conditions and Boobens with a grid penalty. And Boobens screwed up his start in the first race. I have no doubt that we'll see many 1-2s for Brawn from now on. Just like Mansell and Patrese.

"Long been touted as a champion"? By whom? The British media? If you look outside these shores you'll find that very few people have this view. Any driver on the grid could "get the job done" with this car.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wepmob2000
Historically, most world champs have had the best car, or at least one of the best, and often team orders have come into play.[/QUOTE]

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that other WDCs usually prove themselves in lesser cars too? Button hasn't done this. His performances are more reminiscent of Alesi. Good but not great.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by J2NH
Agree with:
bobqzzi
wepmob2000
Schuperman
tkulla
beanoid
Zippel
molive
GregAU
Lazy Prodigy
brunopascal
Ultra150
Alfisti

We are two races (okay 1.5) races into the season and Jenson Button has yet to put a foot wrong. To assume that Button will be WDC and then to further suggest it will be "hollow" is a disservice to all of the other teams on the grid. I would not be so quick to discount Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull, BMW, or Renault. All are capable teams and who is to say they will not respond and put Jenson and Brawn on their heels in the coming races?

Good for Brawn and Jenson if at the end of the season he is the WDC. No matter the final points tally they will have earned it.
[/QUOTE]

I don't care much for your "list". Like I said, there is a silent but significant 20% minority that I speak for. Your peer pressure means nothing to me.

"To assume that Button will be WDC" - are you kidding me? If the diffuser is not banned then Brawn will run away with this championship like Mansell did in '92. They are sandbagging but occasionally revealing that the real pace of that car is about 2-3 seconds a lap on the nearest competitor. Opening laps in Australia, Button getting released after the cars pitted in front of him yesterday.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DLaw
What a F**king stupid question. [/QUOTE]

What a F**king ridiculous answer. I hope you never have to defend yourself in court one day. I advise you buy the most expensive lawyer you can afford.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Assuming things stay roughly the way they are, which I have no reason to doubt they shall; I think Button will win a championship that is massively impressive statistically, but won't be remembered as one of the great seasons. It will be Mansell'esque, minus Nigel's previous form. [/QUOTE]

Exactly. At last, a man who talks sense and is not blinkered by emotions.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ricardo F1
WTF? If you don't already comprehend that Button is a damn good racing driver, hmm, 2004 comes to mind, then you're a fricking idiot who clearly has no idea about the sport. Rolf. [/QUOTE]

glasses? emotions? Jeez......

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tomerell
Why would you call Mansel's WDC hollow :confused: any driver that can hang in F1 so long to wait for the right machinery is more than worthy CHAMPION in my eyes.

So simple the answer to a "simple" question is NO Jenson would be a very worthy champion if he manages to win the WDC this year :up:
[/QUOTE]

It was hollow, of course it was! Were you alive then? F1 is not a dream story where an unlucky few are rewarded with machinery in the last few years of their career. I'm sure that even the most ardent Mansell fan would believe he deserved the championship in his earlier Williams-Honda years rather than in 93. I think Mansell deserves at least one WDC too, frankly he deserves two WDCs. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it was a hollow WDC in 92. Patrese was useless competition and the rest of the grid didn't even come into it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Madras
Mansell 1992
Prost 1993
[/QUOTE]

exactly

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kids like ash
Rolf123 is already known to be one of the biggest jokes on this forum why prove it more so than already before. You are horrible at winning and losing, and your constant whinging when Ferrari isn't winning is horrendous. I don't think F1 is the sport for you my friend. [/QUOTE]

emotions? logic? argument? btw your sig is ironic.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kids like ash
Ps. How many hollow WDC's has your beloved Schumacher have notched on his belt then? 3? Or more? [/QUOTE]

glasses? logic? Read the bold in my original post please. Your memory is selective. I'm getting quite tired of repeating myself to people who do not read properly.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Handwashed
So after 1.5 races we're already calling the WDC to Button, are we? God I love this forum sometimes. :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: [/QUOTE]

If the diffuser is not banned (which unfortunately is looking increasingly likely) then the championship is Brawn's. I'll bet you a thousand quid if you'll put your money where your mouth is.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by airwise


Remember he was with holding setup information from his teammates at Benetton from day one. I remember Herbert pretty much matching him first time out - only to be denied access to any of Schuey's data from then on. And Brundle caused him concerns over a race distance on more than one occasion. Take the rose tinted specs off and remember the facts please.
[/QUOTE]

You prove my point. Far lesser teammates like Herbert needing setup data from teammates. Let's face it, barring a few exceptions, Schumacher dominated his teammates and produced memorable performances in sub-par cars. I think you're the one with the rose tinted specs on.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clatter
And the OP wonders why he gets called a troll so often. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]

Troll is a retort used by people who lack the skill to debate logically. If you deny this then please go ahead and destroy my arguments....Nah, didn't think you could.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ensign14
21 people voted yes. I assume they were confused between the options. [/QUOTE]

Yes and No are pretty definitive. This silent minority are afraid to speak but not to worry, I will be their "Gandhi" in the face of such oppression.