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Ferrari should sign Vettel and Alonso


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#1 Handwashed

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:53

I've supported Ferrari for nearly 30 years and I'm concerned about where my team are at right now. I was very concerned when the decision was made to replace Schumacher with Raikkonen, but thankfully Kimi managed to scrape the championship against the odds. Sadly though, it seems like he's lost his drive and our best hopes last season and this season are with Felipe Massa. This concerns me. Massa was only ever signed to be Michael's number 2, and with the team much less organised than in the Brawn & Todt era, they really need a top level driver to extract the maximum out of what they have.
I'd hate to see another season wasted with the same drivers having the same issues of either lack of commitment or lack of all-round ability. This is very much reminiscent of the Alesi & Berger days of the mid-nineties.
I think Alonso as a proven twice world champion and probably the best driver of the past four years is the man who can lead the team. Vettel should also be snapped up before someone else gets him.
Thank you Raikkonen for delivering us the championship in 2007, and thank you Massa for helping towards two constructors championships, but we're the best team of all time and we need more than what you two men are delivering for us.

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#2 Tomerell

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:57

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: not again... haven't you thought why both drivers are not delivering atm... Vettel and Alonso would not be able to do any better...

#3 Handwashed

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:04

Originally posted by Tomerell
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: not again... haven't you thought why both drivers are not delivering atm... ..

Yes, because the whole team is performing like crap, is lacking leadership and lacking drivers who inspire total confidence and commitment.

#4 Szoelloe

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:11

the amount of retarded people in this bb is astounding.

#5 klyster

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:14

"Yes, because the whole team is performing like crap, is lacking leadership and lacking drivers who inspire total confidence and commitment."

The kind of attributes Alonso is giving Renault at the moment?
Some of his comments aren't what I'd call commitment to the team.

But he is a great driver, and given better tools, he would maximise them.

Ferrari aren't those tools at the moment. IMO.

#6 Decode

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:23

vettel has thrown away the 2 races with mistakes so hes hardly proving much this year im afraid.

#7 craftverk

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:55

Why Vettel?

#8 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:59

More threads

#9 JPW

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:03

Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback
More threads

I was thinking the same, what's up with Handwashed's thread starting frenzy today? :confused:

#10 Tomerell

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 15:17

Originally posted by Handwashed
...and lacking drivers who inspire total confidence and commitment.



Where do you get the inside information to base opinnion like that???

#11 Sakae

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:13

Originally posted by craftverk
Why Vettel?

Why not? He is probably best of the rest, and who has any potential to grow in his craft.

#12 Gareth

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:16

It would be difficult for any team to do better than an Alonso/Vettel combination (provided no McLaren '07 issues raised their ugly heads), IMO. One experienced driver who has proven himself one of the best on the grid all round, with the ability to provide excellent technical input. The other one of the most promising youngsters on the grid.

#13 Vice::

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:26

Do you really have to start a new thread for every single opinion of yours?

#14 craftverk

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:29

Originally posted by MiPe
Why not? He is probably best of the rest, and who has any potential to grow in his craft.

And what facts do you have to prove that, without bringing up Monza 2008 which he won under unique circumstances? :rolleyes:

#15 Scotracer

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:30

Are we forgetting how many races Vettel dropped out of at the beginning of last year?

#16 tkulla

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:33

Or they could take that guy on the pit wall helping them make bad decisions and put him in the car. It's odd that the team's best driver is a strategic "consultant" and not in a car.

#17 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:33

Originally posted by Scotracer
Are we forgetting how many races Vettel dropped out of at the beginning of last year?

or this year?
since you mention it, 2 races out of 2 with driver error

#18 HoldenRT

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:46

Vettel is very raw, but he's still young and has time to mature.

#19 UPRC

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:46

Originally posted by Szoelloe
the amount of retarded people in bb is astounding.


So is the amount of people who make rude posts for no reason. :wave:

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#20 SpaMaster

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 16:52

Originally posted by Handwashed
I've supported Ferrari for nearly 30 years and I'm concerned about where my team are at right now. I was very concerned when the decision was made to replace Schumacher with Raikkonen, but thankfully Kimi managed to scrape the championship against the odds. Sadly though, it seems like he's lost his drive and our best hopes last season and this season are with Felipe Massa. This concerns me. Massa was only ever signed to be Michael's number 2, and with the team much less organised than in the Brawn & Todt era, they really need a top level driver to extract the maximum out of what they have.
I'd hate to see another season wasted with the same drivers having the same issues of either lack of commitment or lack of all-round ability. This is very much reminiscent of the Alesi & Berger days of the mid-nineties.
I think Alonso as a proven twice world champion and probably the best driver of the past four years is the man who can lead the team. Vettel should also be snapped up before someone else gets him.
Thank you Raikkonen for delivering us the championship in 2007, and thank you Massa for helping towards two constructors championships, but we're the best team of all time and we need more than what you two men are delivering for us.

OK, You are a Ferrari fan. You want Alonso who abused and exploited your team by using your stolen data. Yet you plead for his services. Great!

#21 BugTomek

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:08

Originally posted by MikeTekRacing

or this year?
since you mention it, 2 races out of 2 with driver error

So far he is slightly dissapointing this year - yep, he is fast, but still makes too many mistakes. Fact: he is young, but so are Hamilton or Kubica, and he has two full f1 seasons under his belt, so you can't say he lacks experience.

#22 engel

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:11

Ferrari needs a leader ... brawn/todt/schumi leaving was pretty bad for them. I don't think it's purely a driver issue, ok neither Kimi nor Phelipe are natural leaders like Schumacher but they are both capable of getting the job done if somebody else makes sure the whole package is there.

But it is sad, Ferrari has this uncanny ability to shoot itself in the foot, always had.

#23 airwise

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:13

Ferrari should sign Dave Ryan and Lewis Hamilton.;)

#24 F1 Tor.

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:25

I don't think it's all terrible. I mean, they won the WCC and came within half a lap of the WDC last year. I can think of a handful of teams that would kill for that result, thanks very much. I can't put my finger on it but, yes, something just feels different this year. Maybe it's a motivational thing, who knows. Okay the season has started poorly and some bad decisions have been made. That happens. I'm more worried that there is no passion left, no fightback left in some people in key areas. I have no way of proving if there is a motivational problem at Ferrari, but we'll know a lot more in the next few races. It's very hard to dissect from the outside.

#25 MichaelPM

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:30

Originally posted by airwise
Ferrari should sign Dave Ryan and Lewis Hamilton.;)

So if they ever get a decent result they can lie and up after a race because they failed to do it during the race?

#26 kismet

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:35

I doubt Ferrari wants to fire both their drivers at the same time so Felipe will stay and partner Alonso (who, I understand, has already been signed a few times) in 2010. Then, depending on how that goes, his contract will either be extended or he'll be dumped to make room for Vettel/Kubica/whoever Ferrari can attract.

#27 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:39

Originally posted by Handwashed
I've supported Ferrari for nearly 30 years and I'm concerned about where my team are at right now. I was very concerned when the decision was made to replace Schumacher with Raikkonen, but thankfully Kimi managed to scrape the championship against the odds. Sadly though, it seems like he's lost his drive and our best hopes last season and this season are with Felipe Massa. This concerns me. Massa was only ever signed to be Michael's number 2, and with the team much less organised than in the Brawn & Todt era, they really need a top level driver to extract the maximum out of what they have.
I'd hate to see another season wasted with the same drivers having the same issues of either lack of commitment or lack of all-round ability. This is very much reminiscent of the Alesi & Berger days of the mid-nineties.
I think Alonso as a proven twice world champion and probably the best driver of the past four years is the man who can lead the team. Vettel should also be snapped up before someone else gets him.
Thank you Raikkonen for delivering us the championship in 2007, and thank you Massa for helping towards two constructors championships, but we're the best team of all time and we need more than what you two men are delivering for us.


I have supported Ferrari for over 30 years and I think anyone who cannot see that the biggest problem at Ferrari the past 2 years and this year is Ferrari, not the drivers, is an idiot!

#28 Sakae

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:47

Originally posted by craftverk

And what facts do you have to prove that, without bringing up Monza 2008 which he won under unique circumstances? :rolleyes:

Just gut feeling on my part. Not all chiefs live by statistics only. Hill was WDC and Frank Williams sack him on gut feeling only, that he was not good enough for his garage.

#29 stonebutter

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:50

Originally posted by HoldenRT
Vettel is very raw, but he's still young and has time to mature.


he is closing in on 2 full years in the sport - I don't know why people are talking like he's just ran 2 or 3 races. He's fast but IMO he's very sloppy - he has yet to finish a race this season, and didn't finish a race till Turkey or monaco of last year.

#30 engel

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:51

Originally posted by kismet
I doubt Ferrari wants to fire both their drivers at the same time so Felipe will stay and partner Alonso (who, I understand, has already been signed a few times) in 2010. Then, depending on how that goes, his contract will either be extended or he'll be dumped to make room for Vettel/Kubica/whoever Ferrari can attract.


I believe Kimi/Felipe were confirmed for 2010 ...

Oh and side point, doubt Vettel will be ready for Ferrari for another 2-3 years. And Robert + Ferrari = disaster.
^^Personal opinions, and no it's not that I don't like Kubica, or that I don't rate him highly, I just think his personality coupled with Ferrari won't be pretty.

#31 Mauseri

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:52

Let's first see if Vettel can beat Webber. It will be a lot tougher nut than a champ car star.
So far Vettel has only beat Bourdais in his career so he really has a lot to prove. And right now it looks like Red Bull is the better team so
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#32 stonebutter

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 17:57

Originally posted by F1 Tor.
I can't put my finger on it but, yes, something just feels different this year.


:lol: The car sucks.

#33 bankoq

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 18:00

Originally posted by MiPe
Why not? He is probably best of the rest, and who has any potential to grow in his craft.


So far he haven't finish single race in 2008 because of his own mistakes.

#34 F1 Tor.

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 18:39

Originally posted by stonebutter


:lol: The car sucks.


this could come back to haunt you. ;)

#35 giacomo

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 19:00

Its two races in the season. High time to start the silly season speculations.

Kubica to McLaren! Hamilton to Brawn!! And the evergreen, Alonso to Ferrari, what else!!!

#36 stonebutter

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 19:05

Originally posted by F1 Tor.


this could come back to haunt you. ;)


I was just making a joke. ;)

#37 stonebutter

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 19:11

Originally posted by MiPe
Just gut feeling on my part. Not all chiefs live by statistics only. Hill was WDC and Frank Williams sack him on gut feeling only, that he was not good enough for his garage.


So...you're basing it on nothing of any significance. Got it. Thanks.

If it had been any other driver that crashed out of both races this season you would troll on and on about how they aren't worthy of F1. But since its your mancrush Vettel you talk about gut feelings and how young he is.

Until Vettel proves he is not just another Massa-ish driver (fast but too many mistakes) I don't see what makes him more attractive than the other talents in F1 who are proving themselves with a lot less mistakes and better results.

#38 rye&ginger

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 19:18

If Vettel and Alonso are brilliant race engineers/strategists then sure. :rolleyes:

#39 Sakae

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 19:51

Originally posted by stonebutter


So...you're basing it on nothing of any significance. Got it. Thanks.

If it had been any other driver that crashed out of both races this season you would troll on and on about how they aren't worthy of F1. But since its your mancrush Vettel you talk about gut feelings and how young he is.

Until Vettel proves he is not just another Massa-ish driver (fast but too many mistakes) I don't see what makes him more attractive than the other talents in F1 who are proving themselves with a lot less mistakes and better results.

Mine is just an opinion only, not a declaration of war on Poland.

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#40 Blythy

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:16

aye, massa and raikkonen are the reasons ferrari are shit atm.

#41 Sakae

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:18

Originally posted by bankoq


So far he haven't finish single race in 2008 because of his own mistakes.

You are, among other posters, lacking even the most basic objectivity on racing. Over the weekend I saw your post with pictorial representation of the altercation between Vettel and Kubica, which was one of the most distorted explanations one can ever find on this BB.

Now you continue to blame Vettel (his "mistake"), because he was on wrong tires, and in monsoon rain he slid off the tarmac.

Are you on a mission or something? Well whatever, please continue and write whatever you want, but leave me out of it, will you?

#42 orges

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:30

I think drivers are doing best they could. Can we wait. tables could turn around 2003 style. Just dont give up. Ferrari been this position before they havent forgot how to win. They will get back and Im confident there is one more title for Kimi or Felipe :wave:

#43 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:34

Originally posted by BugTomek
So far he is slightly dissapointing this year - yep, he is fast, but still makes too many mistakes. Fact: he is young, but so are Hamilton or Kubica, and he has two full f1 seasons under his belt, so you can't say he lacks experience.

hamilton didn't crash his car 2 races in a row
ham in his first year was sticking it up to alonso...vettel crashed into dc behind the safety car, now crashes 2 races in a row..
it's pretty safe to say he is a little more error prone.

#44 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:35

Originally posted by MiPe
You are, among other posters, lacking even the most basic objectivity on racing. Over the weekend I saw your post with pictorial representation of the altercation between Vettel and Kubica, which was one of the most distorted explanations one can ever find on this BB.

Now you continue to blame Vettel (his "mistake"), because he was on wrong tires, and in monsoon rain he slid off the tarmac.

Are you on a mission or something? Well whatever, please continue and write whatever you want, but leave me out of it, will you?

so he didn't crash into kubica (and later apologized for it)..it was his car, right?
and his tyres were wrong, that's why he lost the car?
funny how one person's mistake simply dissapear

#45 stonebutter

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:36

Originally posted by MiPe
You are, among other posters, lacking even the most basic objectivity on racing. Over the weekend I saw your post with pictorial representation of the altercation between Vettel and Kubica, which was one of the most distorted explanations one can ever find on this BB.

Now you continue to blame Vettel (his "mistake"), because he was on wrong tires, and in monsoon rain he slid off the tarmac.

Are you on a mission or something? Well whatever, please continue and write whatever you want, but leave me out of it, will you?


You're making an argument based on fiction though. You've made claims when trolling the BMW forum about how Vettel is more talented than any other driver, but where are the results to prove it? Because he qualified well on low fuel in Sepang? Big deal. He has crashed out twice, has no points I fail to see what is so impressive about him.

If another person says that another driver is good and backs it up with performances you completely dismiss the facts and say that Vettel would do better in the same car. Based on your "gut feeling"

You are biased beyond belief you just can't take it when people give you a taste of your own medicine,

Its only a matter of a few posts before people learn that you're a troll.

But I will agree with you that bankoqs picture was distorted.

#46 Peter Perfect

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 21:02

In answer to the original question... no.

The problem isn't the drivers, it's the car. Besides, replacing both race drivers means no continuity and a period of settling in. And I haven't even started on any potential relationship problems between two keen new drivers vying for number one status in the team...

#47 tkulla

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 21:21

Vettel is just the new, shiny object to some fans. This happens all the time. Young drivers shows promise and is hailed (hyped) as the new Shumi (or Senna, Prost, whomever) and then is forgotten once the reality sets in that they are "merely" a very good F1 driver. True greatness is rare, and even those aforementioned three drivers were not without their faults. I remember not long ago that Rosberg was the next big star - he led the race in Malaysia this weekend but still no one is talking about him. Nobody cares anymore - there's a new shiny. There was a lot of talk about Bruno Senna getting the Brawn seat this offseason. It didn't really make much logical sense, but people wanted more new shiny. Even Kubica, who has been the favorite new shiny (excepting Hamilton, of course) will probably lose that status this year tooling around in the midfield. It's natural to be attracted to youth and promise, and I doubt this will ever change.

#48 engel

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 21:26

what he ^ said.

I still remember when Coulthard was next British Champion, after Johny Herbert occupied that spot. When Fisichella and Frenzen were Schumacher beaters and Ralf was supposedly faster than Michael.

#49 Ligier26

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 21:38

Originally posted by engel
what he ^ said.

I still remember when Coulthard was next British Champion, after Johny Herbert occupied that spot. When Fisichella and Frenzen were Schumacher beaters and Ralf was supposedly faster than Michael.


All true. Fisichella was actually billed as the 'F1 drivers' F1 driver' and 'Frenzen was the only man that Michael is afraid of'. Remember that every year is also the 'make or break' season when Webber 'is going to deliver' etc. etc.

With regards to Bruno Senna, I've lost count of the number of sensation-seekers who have, in all seriousness, quoted the words of Ayrton at me "if you think I'm good, you should see my nephew", as though it was a prophecy and not something a kind uncle would say after an afternoon of playing with karts.

#50 Decode

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 23:28

Originally posted by tkulla
Vettel is just the new, shiny object to some fans. This happens all the time. Young drivers shows promise and is hailed (hyped) as the new Shumi (or Senna, Prost, whomever) and then is forgotten once the reality sets in that they are "merely" a very good F1 driver. True greatness is rare


Yep extremely rare, which is why Im extremely skeptical about any new driver immediately hailed as the next one. Im far from convinced about vettel for a number of reasons, like how he matched up against Heidfeld for that one race, or how he was missing pace for a number of races last year against bourdaris, and the number of mistakes he still makes. These things raise a lot of question marks.