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Should Ferrari sack Baldiserri?


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Poll: Should Ferrari sack Baldiserri? (155 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Yes (67 votes [43.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.23%

  2. No (88 votes [56.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.77%

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#1 jeze

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 19:19

Luca has taken many ridiciulous decisions the last two years, since he became the main man of strategy. It seems that the only way for Ferrari to even get points is to have a normal and dry race where nothing changes. In 2009 there has to be somewhat more clever, given that it's so close these days. I guess that Average Joe in the pub could have figured out that rain tyres was a no go when Kimi got it. For historical evidence, read Silverstone 08 and the horrific failure to bring in Kimi for new wets when he lost 10 s per lap :down:

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#2 Enkei

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 19:53

I think he's not the only one who dropped the ball at Ferrari the last two races. To sack him would be very unfair.

#3 engel

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 19:58

Rain tyres were a gamble, it had started lightly raining, they all believed as soon as it started raining it would turn into a downpour so they gambled since Kimi was due a pitstop.

It was an unnecessary gamble, true, but still ... it was their only hope of fighting for the race. It didn't pan out so Kimi ended up last.

I guess what I m try to say is they lost precisely because they were trying to be clever. It worked for them in Melbourne (first stint on the ultra softs -> safety car helped), it didn't work this time. Luck has more to do with it than brains ...

#4 carbonfibre

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:00

No it's a teamgame and sure some people might have made more mistakes the last 2 races then others but they need to sort the whole team out.

The last 2 races just were a big mess.

#5 Alfisti

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:11

I am usually not a fan of firing for the sake or trying to shake the boat but he's in all sorts of trouble. The place is farcical right now and he'd be on a short leash going into China.

#6 orges

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:36

Ok, ferrari sack Baldisseri but are there any other better guyes for Ferrari?

#7 mursuka80

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:43

Originally posted by orges
Ok, ferrari sack Baldisseri but are there any other better guyes for Ferrari?


They have MS :(

#8 Madras

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:46

Originally posted by mursuka80


They have MS :(


Like he said, are there any better guys than Baldiserri?

Seriously though there must be someone they could bring in.

#9 AndreasF1

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 20:56

yes great idea , lets start sacking folks because of some screw ups... This will get them right back to where they were prior to JT arrival in 92. I took them 4 years to get politics removed from Ferrari and put stability back into the team. I am not a fan of Ferrari but do think that fireing people would be a bit premature. I remember an interview a few years back with JT and RB where they said that it was incredibly difficult to build a structure with substance that would last years and wouldn't fall pray to Italian media pressure as well as internal team politics. It seems that structure is falling apart under the new leadership.
'

#10 kar

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 21:00

Falling apart under new regulations I think.

Ferrari will be okay, and no, Ferrari should not sack Baldiserri, that would be lunacy.

#11 F1 Tor.

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Posted 06 April 2009 - 21:15

Sorry, I want to make sure I understand. They win the constructor's title and come very close to the drivers title last year. This year they had problems in Australia and screw up in Malaysia and we should start firing people???? If it was 7 races in, sure, but, come on, let's get real. Australia has usually been an unfair way of evaluating who has the 'best' car due to the circuits characteristics, and yesterday's race was a crap shoot if I've ever seen one. Have some perspective. Did they do well in Australia last year?? If you follow your own logic many people should have been fired over the last little while. Teams WORK THROUGH problems and, if that can't be done, then you look at other solutions or options. I always saw firing someone as a last resort, not the first. :(

#12 SB

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 03:13

Originally posted by F1 Tor.
Sorry, I want to make sure I understand. They win the constructor's title and come very close to the drivers title last year.


They won WCC last year because they built a better car (credit to the designer team and engineer team) and a better pair of drivers. However it is quite clear that the new management (after Toat and Brawn have stepped down) are below "Ferrari / WCC" standard, which could be seen by the poor tire choice in Silverstone last year and the Malaysia GP, as well as the "pit-shop-traffic-light" event last year ....

#13 Poltergeistes

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 03:51

Originally posted by SB


They won WCC last year because they built a better car (credit to the designer team and engineer team) and a better pair of drivers. However it is quite clear that the new management (after Toat and Brawn have stepped down) are below "Ferrari / WCC" standard, which could be seen by the poor tire choice in Silverstone last year and the Malaysia GP, as well as the "pit-shop-traffic-light" event last year ....


What do you mean? A WCC comes due to ALL of the sectors doing a great job, it wasn't just in designing a fast car, it was how they managed most of the races too, how the drivers managed too, it's never won by one sector alone. They have made many mistakes during these 2 years and now the first 2 races, but they won 2 WCC and 1 WDC and had Massa losing it by one point last season. can we dismiss all that?

#14 chrcoluk

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 04:05

The trye thing was a gamble that could have paid off however kimi was 5th at time? When you up in the points is wise to take low risk moves only.

I think the big mistake of the weekend was been over confident in the qualifying.

#15 pacwest

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 05:14

Ask yourself this. Did Ross Brawn choose wets? Would he have chosen wets if he was at SF? No.

Time for someone else to win. Keep Ferrari as is for the year.

#16 Tomerell

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 05:38

Did Ross Brawn choose wets? Would he have chosen wets if he was at SF? No



Ross did not choose wets for Jenson when he pitted one lap after Kimi... Kimi had lost 30 sec already by then and he was going to lose 30 sec by every dry lap he was running... and it take less than 30 sec to pit for tyres ): who the hell was calculating in the Ferrari pitwall :drunk:

#17 pacwest

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 05:45

My question was somewhat rhetorical...

#18 Tomerell

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 05:49

I notice that pac, and so was my reply... :up:

#19 pacwest

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 06:36

Got it ;)

Whomever was calculating was not using a proper calculator. Or was not watching the same Google powered weather report that everyone else was using.

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#20 Buttoneer

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:08

Originally posted by Tomerell


Ross did not choose wets for Jenson when he pitted one lap after Kimi... Kimi had lost 30 sec already by then and he was going to lose 30 sec by every dry lap he was running... and it take less than 30 sec to pit for tyres ): who the hell was calculating in the Ferrari pitwall :drunk:

That's true but it's a 1'38 lap and the rain in the area goes from zero to waterfall in an instant. On slick tyres there is a 100% solid gold guarantee that Kimi would have gone off. So it's not just about the pit time but also risk management.

I think Ferrari made a call which could have made them heroes with one or the other of their cars. They hedged their bets, which maybe shows a slight lack of confidence. But we also don't know how much of the call was from the driver.

#21 pRy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:10

The sacking culture is already ruining football.. let's not let it ruin F1 too.

#22 One

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:19

If I may start critics on the topic starter, I must declare this, You would not even know on what ground you suggest to suck Baldesseri this time, or do you? Can you provide us with the evidence that it was Luca who made the decision? If the criticism is not well grounded I can propose to suck Michael instead.

#23 ATM_Andy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:20

No.

#24 Owen

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:35

Give the guy some support not sack him.

#25 alfa1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:46

Originally posted by SB
They won WCC last year because they built a better car (credit to the designer team and engineer team) and a better pair of drivers.


A better pair of drivers? Than the ones they have now???




...as well as the "pit-shop-traffic-light" event last year ....


You mean the traffic lights they've been using with no problems for all the pit stops this year?

#26 Buttoneer

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:48

Originally posted by Owen
Give the guy some support not sack him.

Translation: "I, as a dedicated McLaren fan, fully endorse the continued employment of this fine gentleman who, when it came down to it, made decisions which ensured my team are ahead in the championship despite everything." :rotfl:

#27 Szoelloe

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:53

Don't know the exact decision hierarchy during the race itsself, but if they HAVE to sack somebody, (which I think they don't), looking at it from the outside they should sack Domenicali first. He should have an impact on every major decision made.

#28 ATM_Andy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:57

Originally posted by Szoelloe
Don't know the exact decision hierarchy during the race itsself, but if they HAVE to sack somebody, (which I think they don't), looking at it from the outside they should sack Domenicali first. He should have an impact on every major decision made.


No.

#29 Owen

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 10:04

Originally posted by Buttoneer

Translation: "I, as a dedicated McLaren fan, fully endorse the continued employment of this fine gentleman who, when it came down to it, made decisions which ensured my team are ahead in the championship despite everything." :rotfl:


Yeh, very good. But the team (using this guy) came within a gnats of winning the WDC last year and comfortably won the WCC. Are you suggesting he's incapable after one dodgy risk taking decision? The more experience he gets the better he will become surely?

#30 dabrasco

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 10:05

pitchfork supporters :p

#31 Chiara

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 10:07

Pitchfork supporters who can't even spell his name right :p

BALDISSERRI - two 's' two 'r'.

#32 Buttoneer

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 10:16

Originally posted by Owen

Are you suggesting he's incapable after one dodgy risk taking decision?

Nope. My view is up there at post 20.

#33 Lorenzo

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 10:18

Melbourne was and generally always is a very strange race, and Malaysia there were certainly some mistakes made by the team, but honestly my opinion is that they may as well have tried "something"... because there is no sense in having less fuel on board than your competitors, running behind them and following their lead on when to stop and which tyres to put on.

Ferrari covered both bases with putting Kimi on full wets, as Felipe still had the option of choosing at that point, and they could have just as easily looked like genius' if they got it right. Kimi wasn't looking like he was going to shake the leader board anyway, so why not try it I say.

Sure it was never going to work, with what we saw and what we know now, but they must have had information telling them it was about to rain and rain heavy... they aren't so pathetically stupid to put Kimi out on those tyres if there is no basis to support the decision whatsoever... are they?? :

Oh and I voted no. Ferrari has bigger problems, that may almost be un-surmountable for this season. I can't for the life of me understand whilst one moment the car looks incredibly quick and then in seemingly more favourable conditions (judging by the other teams gaining pace), they go slower. There is something amiss, surely!!

#34 GerardF1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 10:19

In todays culture you have to have someone to blame for everything. So there was a bad weekend and some dodgy calls - so what. To expect perfection is to hold him and the team to a higher standard than anyone can achieve.

#35 whatto999

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 10:45

Chiara, clean this mess. :coffee:

#36 Owen

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 10:53

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Nope. My view is up there at post 20.


Well, we agree then. But my reasons are not as you've suggested. Just for clarity.

#37 Buttoneer

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:13

Originally posted by Owen


Well, we agree then. But my reasons are not as you've suggested. Just for clarity.

Didn't think it was - I did put a smilie as a clue...

#38 Owen

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:26

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Didn't think it was - I did put a smilie as a clue...


Sorry, didn't make that connection that you weren't being serious.

#39 glorius&victorius

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:31

yes sack him; i cant stand his arrogance during interviews.

i dont remember a race that was decided by baldesseri's "genius" strategic input (and i am looking at brawn@ferrari for comparison)

when felipe wins it is because he started from the front and he pushes like a maniac...

all we see at ferrari is errors in qualifying (didnt kimi have a moment last year when he got caught in Q2 or Q3?), the wrong tires and strategies for kimi

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#40 primer

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:40

First Ferrari should stop M. Schumacher from attending the GPs as team guest/employee. He is there for attention whoring, and distracts some team personnel from serious job of racing. Secondly they need to fire Stefano.

#41 Galko877

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:43

Originally posted by primer
First Ferrari should stop M. Schumacher from attending the GPs as team guest/employee. He is there for attention whoring, and distracts some team personnel from serious job of racing. Secondly they need to fire Stefano.


To those who are always whining about Schumacher going to GPs and being an attention seeker. His manager told yestarday he has a contractual obligation to attend a certain number of races per season and Ferrari decides to which GPs he has to go.



#42 Galko877

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 11:53

Originally posted by pacwest
Ask yourself this. Did Ross Brawn choose wets? Would he have chosen wets if he was at SF? No.

Time for someone else to win. Keep Ferrari as is for the year.


In the wake of current events it's always easy to forget about the past. I like Ross, but it's not like he never makes mistakes. In fact, in 2003 he made LOTS of mistakes, he was very self-critical about himself after that season. That's when Baldisseri emerged as his possible heir, because often he disagreed with Brawn on strategy and in the hindsight it turned out he was right and not Brawn! Having said that, it's true that Baldisseri hasn't shone since Brawn left the team.

#43 as65p

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 12:17

Originally posted by primer
First Ferrari should stop M. Schumacher from attending the GPs as team guest/employee. He is there for attention whoring, and distracts some team personnel from serious job of racing. Secondly they need to fire Stefano.


On german sites and in "Motorsport aktuell" MS gets quite a bit of flak and they even hint that he was behind those dodgy decisions.

No idea of the truth behind it, but this is translated from motorsport-total.com:

Question to Stefano Domenicali: Who made the decision to put Räikkönen on wets that early? "I don't want to reveal that in public", he says - and later when questioned about Schumacher he grinned: "I was expecting that question, but I don't want to talk about it, because I also didn't answer the earlier question who put Räikkönen on wets."

#44 Owen

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 12:19

Originally posted by as65p


On german sites and in "Motorsport aktuell" MS gets quite a bit of flak and they even hint that he was behind those dodgy decisions.

No idea of the truth behind it, but this is translated from motorsport-total.com:

Question to Stefano Domenicali: Who made the decision to put Räikkönen on wets that early? "I don't want to reveal that in public", he says - and later when questioned about Schumacher he grinned: "I was expecting that question, but I don't want to talk about it, because I also didn't answer the earlier question who put Räikkönen on wets."


Weber is saying he doesn't expect Schu's contract to be extended. :confused: make of that what you will.

#45 as65p

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 12:49

Originally posted by Owen


Weber is saying he doesn't expect Schu's contract to be extended. :confused: make of that what you will.


Again on motorsport.total.com it reads a bit different (where is your info from?)

There are rumours that MS' contract won't be extended. "Possible. But we'll only start talking in the middle of the year. Let's just wait", says Weber, who can't envisage that the contract would be terminated early. And if the contract won't be extended, "then certainly not because of Malaysia".

So in fact Weber is presented with rumours about contract termination and basically tries to rubbish them, as to be expected.

#46 Owen

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 12:53

Originally posted by as65p


Again on motorsport.total.com it reads a bit different (where is your info from?)

There are rumours that MS' contract won't be extended. "Possible. But we'll only start talking in the middle of the year. Let's just wait", says Weber, who can't envisage that the contract would be terminated early. And if the contract won't be extended, "then certainly not because of Malaysia".

So in fact Weber is presented with rumours about contract termination and basically tries to rubbish them, as to be expected.


From Autosport.com:

The German also suggested the former world champion's contract with Ferrari was unlikely to be renewed. "His contract with Ferrari ends at the end of the year, but I don't know whether it will be renewed.

"The attack against Schumacher makes no sense. He knows everyone and was in Sepang just by chance. The decisions from the pit wall were taken by the team.

"It's possible that his contract won't be renewed, but there will be a meeting midway through the year, so we'll have to wait.

Ferrari boss Stefano Domenicali refused to speak about Schumacher's situation following the race on Sunday. "This is something we will discuss internally, it is not something that we will discuss outside," he said.

#47 as65p

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 13:03

Originally posted by Owen


From Autosport.com:

The German also suggested the former world champion's contract with Ferrari was unlikely to be renewed. "His contract with Ferrari ends at the end of the year, but I don't know whether it will be renewed.


Hmm... the leading sentence doesn't really match with the actual quote, I'd say (unlikely vs. dunno).

Oh well, if there's substance to it we'll learn soon enough...

#48 Galko877

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 13:04

Why don't you guys also quote the part where Weber says:

Michael Schumacher's manager Willi Weber has labelled as "idiotic" the criticism aimed at the seven-time world champion following the Malaysian Grand Prix.

German and Italia media report that Schumacher, who works as a consultant for the Ferrari team, was the man in charge of making the decision that ruined Kimi Raikkonen's race on Sunday, the Finn switching to extreme weather tyres too early.

Weber said Schumacher had nothing to do with it.

The German also suggested the former world champion's contract with Ferrari was unlikely to be renewed.

"The criticism aimed at Schumacher is totally idiotic," Weber was quoted as saying by Gazzetta dello Sport.



The press needs a scapegoat and what better scapegoat than Michael Schumacher? Even if he had nothing to do with it.

#49 peroa

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 13:06

Still, why didn`t Stefano say so?
This story wouldn`t even come up if his answers weren`t so evasive.
On top of that the MS interview on RTL.

#50 as65p

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 13:13

Originally posted by Galko877

The press needs a scapegoat and what better scapegoat than Michael Schumacher? Even if he had nothing to do with it.


Yeah, they are the flavour of the season, those scapegoats... :p

I don't really care frankly. But I can assure you that the german press IS hinting at it all being MS' fault, probably copying stuff from oneanother like everywhere else.

Yet don't provide any real proof, so make of that what you will.

Just to make it clear: I didn't invent it, it's there.