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McLaren summoned by FIA's WMSC to answer for *LIEGATE*(merged)


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#1 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 15:42

McLaren summoned by FIA's WMSC, This issue was all but finished and punishment dished out, how can Sex-pervert Max Mosely with even a modicum of sincerity, allow Mclaren to answer charges that it has brought the sport into disrepute? http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74346 The stewards handed out a punishment. What good would another retrospective punishment solve?

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#2 Owen

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 15:43

Another excuse to kick them while they're down I guess. :rolleyes:
Let's just say he's into punishment.

#3 Spyker MF1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 15:45

Originally posted by Owen
Another excuse to kick them while they're down I guess.


Cause they didn't bring it on themselves :rolleyes:

#4 TheD2JBug

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 15:47

Good old 151c , the cause of , and solution to , all of F1's problems.

#5 potmotr

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 15:48

What a witchhunt.

I'm very tempted to buy a Eurostar ticket and go and protest outside the FIA.

#6 Owen

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 15:48

Originally posted by Spyker MF1


Cause they didn't bring it on themselves :rolleyes:


Well, a punishment was given, as well as a public apology, as well as a suspension of senior staff member.
Think Max won't stop til they are on their knees though...

#7 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 15:55

Originally posted by Owen


Well, a punishment was given, as well as a public apology, as well as a suspension of senior staff member.
Think Max won't stop til they are on their knees though...


How can max with his S & M antics out in the public domain, have the audacity to accuse Mclaren of bringing the sport into disrepute, while defending his own dungeon based pleasure/pain practice was perfectly acceptable? :rolleyes: Private matter or not, Max has a pair on him, to even contemplate bringing a charge like this. This hearing will not solve nothing. Who can he hate inside Mclaren so much? I'm sorry but this has all the hallmarks of a witch-hunt. :down:

#8 united

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 15:56

Ah, I will be the first.

ZE PUNISHMENT!!!!

#9 HoldenRT

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 15:56

Harsh.

#10 D A

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:01

So what will ZE PUNISHMENT be?

$50M fine and excluded from WCC?

#11 Darth Sidious

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:01

Originally posted by potmotr
What a witchhunt.


I'm starting to think so, too. Mosley ain't gonna be happy till F1 2009 has an 18 car grid, 700 people join the dole queue in Woking, Hamilton joins NASCAR and the good 'ole boys, Ron Dennis slashes his wrists in the bath and Whitmarsh is selling Big Issues outside Waterloo station. Then he'll call it a day and hand over the FIA to Todt, a happy man.

What a mountain out of a molehill. Yes McLaren have brought it on themselves, but the wrongs perpetrated in Australia have already been righted by the stewards. Public opinion has condemned both McLaren and Hamilton for all eternity, there has been apologies and contrition up the wazoo since they were exposed as liars and Mercedes are on the verge of either pulling out of F1 or taking the team over themselves. Toss a coin on that one.

This is a humiliation exercise, in my opinion. Mosley's pulling down their pants and sharpening the birch.

#12 Clatter

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:04

Originally posted by potmotr
What a witchhunt.


Yep, pure and simple.

#13 Slartibartfast

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:04

I hope that at some point the McLaren lawyer asks Mosley the following question:

"Do you believe or suspect anyone connected with McLaren-Mercedes to have been in any way involved in last year's revelations about your private life?"

#14 VoidNT

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:05

Looks very bad for McLaren. Considering the fact that they aren't championship contenders this year the FIA may even throw them out of the championship.

Only a major 'reparation' of some sort can save McLaren now.

Hamilton is probably the only trump card McLaren have to avoid Ze Ultimate Punishment.

#15 Hacklerf

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:05

McLaren deserve to be punished, they cheated, so they shall be punished

#16 SchumiBoy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:06

Maybe we'll find out what Ed Gorman meant when he wrote this

McLaren being caught lying through the actions of Ryan and Hamilton is one thing; if it turns out that they have properly scapegoated Ryan and lied again about who knew about what was going on, I would fear for the consequences on their behalf. The FIA is not going to like that at all. The Times does in fact have an admission of sorts on this issue but it would be improper to report it here at this stage.



#17 D A

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:07

Originally posted by Hacklerf
McLaren deserve to be punished, they cheated, so they shall be punished


Unlike every other team who have appeared before the stewards.

#18 Spyker MF1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:07

IMO the one person who still needs to be punished is Hamilton, he still hasn't accepted responsibility for his actions, just shifted the blame to Dave Ryan. I don't think the team should receive a punishment, the mechanics and guys back at the factory have done nothing wrong in this yet it will be them that get screwed over again by deceitful actions taken by guys above them and any punishments should be taken at a personal level.

#19 Clatter

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:08

Originally posted by Hacklerf
McLaren deserve to be punished, they cheated, so they shall be punished


They already have been.

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#20 Slyder

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:09

Originally posted by Hacklerf
McLaren deserve to be punished, they cheated, so they shall be punished


They have already been punished. What the hell else is there that needs to be punished further?

#21 lokiman

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:09

I must have missed the hearing where the FIA called Charlie Whiting to account for the blatant lies that he told the WMSC last year............

I'm not saying that McLaren were right to mislead the stewards, or that punishment isn't warranted, but they have been punished and this is, indeed, looking more and more like a witch-hunt, when one considers how competitors' misleading statements have been dealt with in the past. Enough is enough.

#22 Clatter

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:09

Originally posted by Spyker MF1
IMO the one person who still needs to be punished is Hamilton, he still hasn't accepted responsibility for his actions, just shifted the blame to Dave Ryan. I don't think the team should receive a punishment, the mechanics and guys back at the factory have done nothing wrong in this yet it will be them that get screwed over again by deceitful actions taken by guys above them and any punishments should be taken at a personal level.


He has been punished. He was DQ'd from the race and lost all points.

#23 Rob

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:11

Originally posted by Spyker MF1
IMO the one person who still needs to be punished is Hamilton


Is disqualification not a punishment?

#24 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:11

I think this is procedural more than anything. It will be more like when JV was called to Paris for being a loudmouth than anything approaching 2007.

Still, it does look like an overreaction and doesn't even target the two individuals that actually created the problem.

#25 Hacklerf

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:11

They obviously feel the punishment wasn't strong enough and Mclaren require further sanctions, to which i agree

#26 JPW

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:12

Originally posted by SchumiBoy
Maybe we'll find out what Ed Gorman meant when he wrote this

"McLaren being caught lying through the actions of Ryan and Hamilton is one thing; if it turns out that they have properly scapegoated Ryan and lied again about who knew about what was going on, I would fear for the consequences on their behalf. The FIA is not going to like that at all. The Times does in fact have an admission of sorts on this issue but it would be improper to report it here at this stage."

Indeed I would not be surprised if the FIA possesses more info on who in McLaren was involved or informed on this fib as some like to call it.

Maybe daddy Hamilton spilled the beans in order to protect his son?

#27 raceday

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:12

I haven't followed this so closely but when I read today that the stewards had a second hearing with them and that they had the radio transcrips available and still McLaren stood by what they had said in the initial hearing, then it took a new dimension for me... Whitmarsh will not get out of that one easily! He can not blame Ryan for that one!


* on 2 April, 2009, at a second hearing before the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix, (meeting in Malaysia) made no attempt to correct the untrue statement of 29 March but, on the contrary, continued to maintain that the statement was true, despite being allowed to listen to a recording of the team instructing Hamilton to let Trulli past and despite being given more than one opportunity to correct its false statement;



#28 Hacklerf

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:14

Sad thing is that Ryan has taken the fall, whilst Hamilton and Mclaren say "nothing to do with me guv"

#29 mey3059

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:14

Originally posted by Clatter


He has been punished. He was DQ'd from the race and lost all points.


and the punishment for mclaren ? ... the same ? .

hope the racing makes the news and they settle all these soon enough

#30 Spyker MF1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:16

Originally posted by Rob


Is disqualification not a punishment?


In my opinion it is not when he has continued to lie after the original lie being revealed, and making one man a scapegoat while not taking any responsibility himself. Maybe I'm taking it to morally and judging him on the fact he obviously has no conscience and only cares about #1 rather than what should happen procedurally but that's just what I would do if I had the option.

#31 howardt

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:16

Hopefully they'll save some of that famous punishment for the FIA stewards for their epic incompetence, who failed to respond to the mclaren team questions during the race, which is what caused them to give up the place during the race *in order to avoid punishment*. Oh the bitter irony.

#32 ensign14

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:17

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Still, it does look like an overreaction and doesn't even target the two individuals that actually created the problem.

Yes, Trulli has totally got away with binning it off track under a safety period. Crazy that such ludicrously dangerous driving, that could have resulted in marshals getting killed, has been rewarded.

I've lost track whether I'm being sarcastic or not

#33 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:19

It wasn't dangerous, it was just really really amateur. He had the slowest speed off you could possibly have on a race track. He should have been moved behind Hamilton in the order regardless and only promoted to 3rd with Hamilton's disqualification. He was 4th on the road, end of.

#34 Slyder

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:19

Originally posted by Hacklerf
They obviously feel the punishment wasn't strong enough and Mclaren require further sanctions, to which i agree


They lost all scored points on both WDC and WCC standings.

I ask again, what else is there that requires punishment?

#35 Phucaigh

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:19

Originally posted by raceday
I haven't followed this so closely but when I read today that the stewards had a second hearing with them and that they had the radio transcrips available and still McLaren stood by what they had said in the initial hearing, then it took a new dimension for me... Whitmarsh will not get out of that one easily! He can not blame Ryan for that one!



That does seem to be the most damning thing for McLaren in all of this, even last Thursday they lied again and the FIA also say "although knowing that as a direct result of its untrue statement to the stewards, another driver and a rival team had been unfairly penalised, made no attempt to rectify the situation either by contacting the FIA or otherwise;"

So they will be done for cheating.

#36 Lopek

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:23

I have no doubt in my mind that Whitmarsh knew exactly what was going on right from the start - why else would he be spinning the media immediately after the race end about Trulli "overtaking Hamilton".

The number of pundits/reporters/columists in the paddock confidently using the word scapegoat about Dave Ryan says to me that most inside F1 think the same.

If the FIA take the same view, which I am sure they will, they'll throw the book at McLaren.

I will be shocked if McLaren get out of this still taking part in the constructors championship, and I bet Ron Dennis is back in charge by months end.

I hope they are not completely banned as that would be unfair on Heikki, and Lewis somewhat, but I don't think it is impossible.

#37 Scotracer

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:23

The posters in this thread are hilarious :rotfl:

#38 peroa

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:23

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I think this is procedural more than anything. It will be more like when JV was called to Paris for being a loudmouth than anything approaching 2007.


That would be nice ..., but no, I don`t think so.
Somebody must pay for the sextape and MM is convinced Ron set him up.
This hearing will be an event of great proportions, something Spanky is waiting for for over one year.
The ULTIMATE REVENGE! MM being prosecutor, judge and executor in one person and additionally in his head, the victim. His favourite roles. Actually quite simple if you think about it for a minute.

Mark my words. This is going to be epic!

If you would ask a police profiler, I bet 10 bucks (€ not the weak green american ones :p ) he will tell you the same thing.



Still, it does look like an overreaction and doesn't even target the two individuals that actually created the problem.


Jebus, you think?

#39 Garagiste

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:24

Slighty OT, but why do we we always have to suffix anything whith a whiff of scandal with "gate"? :rolleyes:
Yes I know the history, but as Mitchell and Webb pointed out, what happens when we get a scandal involving Water, what are we going to call that?

No wonder they didn't call the film Notting Hill Gate!

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#40 raceday

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:25

Originally posted by Phucaigh


That does seem to be the most damning thing for McLaren in all of this, even last Thursday they lied again and the FIA also say "although knowing that as a direct result of its untrue statement to the stewards, another driver and a rival team had been unfairly penalised, made no attempt to rectify the situation either by contacting the FIA or otherwise;"

So they will be done for cheating.


It does seem to indicate that the lying wasn't isolated to ryan/lewis, so I thing Whitmarsh will have a real tough time getting out of this. Not only with FIA but with Mercedes too?

#41 Lopek

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:25

Originally posted by Slyder


They lost all scored points on both WDC and WCC standings.

I ask again, what else is there that requires punishment?

The stewards gave the only punishment that was available to them, with the proviso that it was not the end of the matter. They were punished, but the punishment available could not fit the crime, so it was referred for further investigation and action.

#42 united

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:27

Originally posted by Scotracer
The posters in this thread are hilarious :rotfl:


Formula 1 has been hilarious recently, don't you think so?

#43 united

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:28

Sometimes I think that the whole motorsport is being governed by the article 151c. How crazy is that?

#44 VoidNT

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:28

Originally posted by peroa
The ULTIMATE REVENGE! MM being prosecutor, judge and executor in one person and additionally in his head, the victim. His favourite roles.


:up: :lol:

#45 Phucaigh

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:29

The case is the lies on the Sunday was McLaren handing the FIA a gun, the lies on the Thursday was McLaren handing the FIA the bullets and now the bullets will be tested on McLaren later this month.

#46 airwise

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:30

Bringing the sport into disrepute?

ARE YOU SERIOUS "SPANKY"?

How much longer does the Mclaren team have to endure this witch hunt.

Anyone up for a trip to Paris to protest (maybe dressed in leather gear and with some Luftwaffe insignias)?

#47 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:30

* on 2 April, 2009, at a second hearing before the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix, (meeting in Malaysia) made no attempt to correct the untrue statement of 29 March but, on the contrary, continued to maintain that the statement was true, despite being allowed to listen to a recording of the team instructing Hamilton to let Trulli past and despite being given more than one opportunity to correct its false statement;


how stupid could they be.. ? :confused:

#48 peroa

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:30

Originally posted by VoidNT


:up: :lol:


My previous post was dead serious. I wasn`t joking.
:rolleyes:

#49 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:30

Any further punishment is pointless. McLaren should be embarrassed enough for trying to get away with it which is enough damage in itself.

What McLaren an Lewis did on the track was nothing compared to Schumis antics at Monaco 06. Ferrari and MS lied to everyone that it was a mistake but the stewards proved otherwise and sent MS to the back for the race.

On that occasion it was done behind closed doors with no further penalties against anyone.

Why cant this be the same?

#50 Tolyngee

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 16:31

Originally posted by VoidNT
Hamilton is probably the only trump card McLaren have to avoid Ze Ultimate Punishment.


Odd you say that, as had he stuck with his story, this wouldn't have happened at all?