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Are F1 Cars Symmetrical?


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#1 christoff

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 17:17

During the BBC coverage of the Malaysian GP Ted Kravitz reported that they were putting 4 turns of wing on one side only of Hamilton's car, which got me thinking . . . . .

Obviously NASCAR cars are set to turn left, are F1 cars generally set up with a slight advantage to turning in a particular direction depending on key corners on a given circuit?

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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 17:20

I think the single adjustment raises the wing on both sides, though they do occasionally have offset bodywork. Sometimes the gills may be bigger/smaller on one side.

But generally with settings you are even left to right. Otherwise the car would be really funny under braking.

#3 peroa

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 17:21

Also with the suspension?

#4 Nonesuch

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 17:23

The examples I can think of probably had more to do with cooling than aerodynamics.

The F2004 on the picture below for example, has a chimney on the right side of the car but not on the left:

http://www.autosport...4-08-29T15510-2

#5 SchumiBoy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 17:25

Originally posted by christoff
During the BBC coverage of the Malaysian GP Ted Kravitz reported that they were putting 4 turns of wing on one side only of Hamilton's car, which got me thinking . . . . .

Obviously NASCAR cars are set to turn left, are F1 cars generally set up with a slight advantage to turning in a particular direction depending on key corners on a given circuit?


Last year at Monza Ferrari used an asymmetrical rear wing http://www.autosport...o.php/id/113928

http://premium.f1-li...8/diapo_164.jpg

#6 Blythy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 17:30

Mclaren at silverstone had a significantly smaller air intake on the right sidepod than on the left.

They usually put water and oil coolers on different sides afaik. At silverstone less cooling was required for the oil (cos it was f'ing freezing)

I know that there might also be asymettrical tyre pressures, but don't quote me on that.

#7 ATM_Andy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 17:30

If you look at the internal layout the cars are remarkably asymmetric.

#8 christoff

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 17:30

I guess there are parts that have to be asymmetric, cooling, kers bulges etc, however I was wondering if a bias to one side might be aimed for to gain any advantage - must have too much time on my hands :lol: (laoj)

#9 DEVO

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 17:47

From the shots of both FM and KR, the Ferrari appear to have their side mirrors mounted diffently from left to right sides.

#10 Dino Scuderia

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 18:27

they are actualy mounted the same, just ones bigger cause it has a camera in it

#11 F1Fanatic.co.uk

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 18:33

On some occasions last year McLaren ran with asymmetrical side pods - they tested them at Silverstone and Hockenheim, I think Hamilton raced with them in the German GP. Here's Kovalainen with them in practice:

Posted Image

Also Alain Prost raced with an asymmetrical nose.

#12 Atreiu

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 18:43

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk
(...)Also Alain Prost raced with an asymmetrical nose.


hehehe :up:

#13 denthierry

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 18:51

if you look at it from the side, you'll notice that front-end and back-end of the car are definitely different.
Among other details, I've recently noticed that the frontwing for example is much smaller and positioned much lower than the rear wing. besides that, as i said, it's details, barely visible with the naked eye. Irrelevant actually.

#14 Madras

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:01

Originally posted by denthierry
if you look at it from the side, you'll notice that front-end and back-end of the car are definitely different.
Among other details, I've recently noticed that the frontwing for example is much smaller and positioned much lower than the rear wing. besides that, as i said, it's details, barely visible with the naked eye. Irrelevant actually.


:rotfl:

#15 Clatter

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:31

Originally posted by denthierry
if you look at it from the side, you'll notice that front-end and back-end of the car are definitely different.
Among other details, I've recently noticed that the frontwing for example is much smaller and positioned much lower than the rear wing. besides that, as i said, it's details, barely visible with the naked eye. Irrelevant actually.


:rotfl: :up:

#16 Victor_RO

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:42

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk

Also Alain Prost raced with an asymmetrical nose.



That's one of the funniest one-liners I've heard in recent times. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#17 stevewf1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:43

Don't why they should always be symmetrical. It could depend on which direction the fastest (longest) corners go. Monza?

#18 noikeee

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 21:53

I don't think it's usual to have asymmetrical parts, but asymmetrical setups are usual, at least in racing games. :D

#19 Barramut

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 22:04

Recently there are a lot of assimetrical exhaust pipes - shapes and positions.

The most experienced guys remember the times when you could shod the car with different specs of tires left&right as Senna used to do to correct car imbalance. :cool:

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#20 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 22:15

The front wheel cambers often seem quite assymetrical to me.

#21 Paolo

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 23:29

Mario Andretti and Jacques Villeneuve often used asymmetrical setups, out of Indy experience.

In theory asymmetrical setups are faster; in race simulators which allow them, such as Grand Prix Legends, the faster setups are always asymmetrical.

.

Of course in GPL one does not risk to get killed if the car suddenly gets sideways of her own will.

#22 330P4

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:44

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk


Also Alain Prost raced with an asymmetrical nose.


That really is hilarious! Nearly fell off my chair......!

:lol:

#23 Owen

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:03

Originally posted by 330P4


That really is hilarious! Nearly fell off my chair......!

:lol:


Me too. Great stuff F1Fanatic.co.uk :clap:

#24 Barramut

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:05

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk
Also Alain Prost raced with an asymmetrical nose.

Here is a classic video...



#25 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 13:45

Originally posted by christoff
During the BBC coverage of the Malaysian GP Ted Kravitz reported that they were putting 4 turns of wing on one side only of Hamilton's car, which got me thinking . . . . .

Obviously NASCAR cars are set to turn left, are F1 cars generally set up with a slight advantage to turning in a particular direction depending on key corners on a given circuit?

since circuits are never symmetric (can't be, they need to be a close loop) why wouldn't setups be the same?
even drivers' necks are forced more on one side than the other it's pretty obvious the cars are too..

I would find it strange it they would ever use a symmetrical setup

#26 SkorbiF1

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 14:09

Originally posted by MikeTekRacing

since circuits are never symmetric (can't be, they need to be a close loop)

8

#27 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 16:03

yeah, and except suzuka we see all the circuits being 8 shape :p

#28 Rogue

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 20:50

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk
On some occasions last year McLaren ran with asymmetrical side pods - they tested them at Silverstone and Hockenheim, I think Hamilton raced with them in the German GP. Here's Kovalainen with them in practice:

Posted Image

Also Alain Prost raced with an asymmetrical nose.


Brilliant! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#29 Lukin

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 22:33

Originally posted by Dmitriy_Guller
The front wheel cambers often seem quite assymetrical to me.


That is generally the way if the circuit is mostly one direction. For example Adelaide you would run higher LHS camber but Surfers Paradise you would run it higher on the RHS. You can also run more than 50% cross weight (RF + LR / Total Weight) to get it to turn right better than left (and help with inside front locking at RH corners).

#30 wdh

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 22:45

Originally posted by christoff
...
Obviously NASCAR cars are set to turn left, are F1 cars generally set up with a slight advantage to turning in a particular direction depending on key corners on a given circuit?


In the past, Indy cars were quite grossly asymetric by design ...
http://www.can-am-ca...518_general.jpg
http://img407.images...5turbinekj3.jpg

But because F1 circuits vary (mostly clockwise, but some anti-clockwise) the basic design/construction is going to be based on equal corner weights left and right side. However, I think you'll find that if something CAN be adjusted, then F1 teams will indeed try to optimise that adjustment for each specific circuit.

#31 wonk123

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 23:30

After coming back to Australia from Charlotte, I worked with a guy who raced at Mount Panorama In a sedan, who had equal corner weights, after my suggestion we tried to get as much weight on the left hand side (anti clockwise circuit) he picked up 7/10's which was a 9 place improvement in qualifying.

I am sure F1 teams would be doing this with ballast, and to a lesser extent aero. Pretty sure they are smarter than me :eek:

#32 Paolo

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 01:18

Even in F3 there have been asymmetrical cars; 1985 Ralt had radiators only on left side; a similar formula was employed by Ermolli in Italian Formula Alfa Boxer, year 1992, IIRC.

#33 plg101

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 10:47

A few years ago there was talk of F1 going racing on ovals... which I understand would have needed an entirely asymmetric setup with some quite extreme changes.

So which modern F1 circuit demands the most asymmetric setup?

Indy - with the long banked bend? (not strictly current I know..)