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Mclaren out of F1?


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#1 REN_AF1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:35

What racing series could Mclaren possibly participate in once the reality that FIA (or persons affiliated with same) will NEWER let go, sinks in for real?
Could Le Mans satisfy the corporations ambitions? "Revitalizing" A1GP perhaps.. I am still drooling whenever I think about the CanAm series, but today? is there really any alternatives to the deranged ramblings of Max and friends?

R

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#2 pacwest

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:38

Nascar. JPM will drive for them again.

#3 Enkei

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:40

There is no alternative. Anything other than F1 can be seen as downgrading.
Without F1, McLaren can not exist.

#4 SevenTwoSeven

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:41

Id bet if they put there minds to it they could create a superb Mclaren Mercedes Diesel Sports car for Le mans. Seeing as everyone nowadays seems to drive Audis, rather than BMW's maybe Mercedes would like to stick one up Audi at the 24hrs? Be interesting to see if Hamilton could adapt to the discipline required for such an event, if he had nothing else to do and Ferrari let him out of his new contract for a weekend :clap: Bet hed be awesome at night :drunk:

#5 Mika Mika

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:42

IRL... well away from max... Id imagine IRL would be well up for having hamlilton too...

#6 Mika Mika

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:44

Originally posted by SevenTwoSeven
Id bet if they put there minds to it they could create a superb Mclaren Mercedes Diesel Sports car for Le mans. Seeing as everyone nowadays seems to drive Audis, rather than BMW's maybe Mercedes would like to stick one up Audi at the 24hrs? Be interesting to see if Hamilton could adapt to the discipline required for such an event, if he had nothing else to do and Ferrari let him out of his new contract for a weekend :clap: Bet hed be awesome at night :drunk:


Maybe - Audi has had masses of success with LeMans... Lets face it PR wise they have had better return on their investment than say toyota have in F1...

#7 stevewf1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:46

Originally posted by SevenTwoSeven
Id bet if they put there minds to it they could create a superb Mclaren Mercedes Diesel Sports car for Le mans.


That would depend if Mercedes decided to continue their partnership. I could see that ending.

#8 fed up

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:47

It really must be a nightmare for their employees - the uncertainty must be very demotivating. They're looking to expand on their car division so this may be a short term diversion. They've already lost Santander, if Vodafone jump ship, it'll all be over.

I just think the team needs to survive until the end of the current Concorde agreement. This, IMHO, is the real issue at play here.

Or...why not start a rival series. Mercedes have the Brawn car and Force India - the FIA have the 2 Toyota engined cars and maybe Brawn, so Ferrrari and the Redbull teams could hold the balance of power.

Mclaren need to do something before their reputation and brand is damaged irreparably - along with the reputations/brands of those associated with them.

#9 Bloggsworth

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:49

If I were McLaren I would have pulled out In 2007.

#10 fed up

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:49

Originally posted by stevewf1


That would depend if Mercedes decided to continue their partnership. I could see that ending.


It can't end without Mercedes selling their 40% stake - unless they're prepared to give it away for nothing.

#11 stevewf1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 19:56

Originally posted by fed up
It can't end without Mercedes selling their 40% stake - unless they're prepared to give it away for nothing.


IMO, anything is possible right now.

#12 WillG

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:04

They should pull out of F1, as to avoid any further Mosely rapes. Would love to see them compete at LeMans, Sebring or even Daytona or the like. It's just sad how politicking has taken over the sport. If you aren't friends with Mosely (aka pay him off like Ferrari), then you are basically screwed.

#13 douglasross

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:05

As a committed Ferrari fan I would hate to see the end of McClaren in Formula 1 race. I could never support them but without them and other teams like Ferrari I think the sport would be a lot poorer.

Maybe its time that FOTA and the GPDA told Bernie and Max that it is time for them to go with their stupid rules and ideas, twilight races in the middle of nowhere, to form a new series with clear concise sensible and transparent rules, permanent stewards etc

This may bring back the spectacle that the premier motorsport event shoud be

#14 Jones Foyer

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:07

Originally posted by Enkei
There is no alternative. Anything other than F1 can be seen as downgrading.
Without F1, McLaren can not exist.


History has shown they can do things other than F1, you know. Yes, it has been years, but I think they're a little more flexible than you think.

The old days

#15 Enkei

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:12

Originally posted by Jones Foyer


History has shown they can do things other than F1, you know. Yes, it has been years, but I think they're a little more flexible than you think.

The old days


I know they have a history somewhere else, but in my opinion McLaren can not be the million dollar company it is now in any other racing class.
The brand exposure in F1 is second to none. They have sponsor responsibilities and I wonder how they would handle even a ban for a few races.

#16 Knowlesy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:14

Originally posted by pacwest
Nascar. JPM will drive for them again.


:lol:

#17 REN_AF1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:18

"The brand exposure in F1 is second to none."

You could say that again! I am not really sure its the right kind of exposure they receive right now, thou..

Team up with FIAT group and get the hell outathere i say.. To let F1 sink and form a rouge series would seem like a really good idea IMHO.

R

#18 PNSD

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:18

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
If I were McLaren I would have pulled out In 2007.


What are you stupid?

The essense of Mclaren is racing! They are here to race in F1!

Pulling out because of a setback is abit silly! And think about all those workers, despite the bad PR and $100mil fine how would they have felt of Dennis just pulled out??! You cant just pull out because you dont agree with a ruling!

Mclaren will exsist in F1 for many many years to come in F1! Even if they get excluded from 09 (Almost an impossibility imo) they will continue and work for '10!

#19 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:18

I reckon they'll get a 3 race ban.

Hamilton could always move to Renault, i'm sure Alonso would be pleased to see him :lol:

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#20 Buss

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:23

Originally posted by douglasross
As a committed Ferrari fan I would hate to see the end of McClaren in Formula 1 race. I could never support them but without them and other teams like Ferrari I think the sport would be a lot poorer.


Couldn't agree more. As a Ferrari fan I need Mclaren as the antipole. F1 would not be the same without them.

#21 d246

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:29

Originally posted by Buss


Couldn't agree more. As a Ferrari fan I need Mclaren as the antipole. F1 would not be the same without them.



As an F1 fan, why would you want to see one of the very few consistently competitive teams disappear? It would devalue anything the others achieve in the near future and detract from the viewing.

#22 Beaumont

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:30

Plenty of options: LIAR Car Series, CHEATER Auto Racing Championship, DECEIVER Cup.

#23 REN_AF1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:38

Originally posted by Beaumont
Plenty of options: LIAR Car Series, CHEATER Auto Racing Championship, DECEIVER Cup.


Let me ask you this: What do you enjoy the most.. Actually seeing the technical excellence of Formula one, or reading the flamboyant tabloid frontpages about same come Monday morning?

R

#24 Meanstreak

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 20:54

Originally posted by Jones Foyer
History has shown they can do things other than F1, you know. Yes, it has been years, but I think they're a little more flexible than you think.

The old days

How can you compare Bruce McLaren days to what McLaren is today?

#25 stevewf1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 21:09

Originally posted by Meanstreak
How can you compare Bruce McLaren days to what McLaren is today?


Then why is it called "McLaren" today?

#26 prty

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 21:30

Originally posted by Beaumont
Plenty of options: LIAR Car Series, CHEATER Auto Racing Championship, DECEIVER Cup.


And if they go first would they be mis-leading the race? :p

#27 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 21:38

Originally posted by prty


And if they go first would they be mis-leading the race? :p


:lol:

#28 ForeverF1

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 21:40

Let's say for arguments sake that McLaren are banned for the rest of this season.

They will then not be affected by the lack of in-season testing so they will be able to get their car sorted for next season and come back dominating the grid in 2010.

#29 SchumiBoy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 21:41

Originally posted by ForeverF1
Let's say for arguments sake that McLaren are banned for the rest of this season.

They will then not be affected by the lack of in-season testing so they will be able to get their car sorted for next season and come back dominating the grid in 2010.


Who says banned teams can test ?

#30 wrighty

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 21:44

Originally posted by SchumiBoy


Who says banned teams can test ?


i would respectfully suggest that if a team is not an entrant in the championship, but has cars and a team, they could test as much as they want. Once they enter the championship, they are bound by its rules, but they are not until they enter.
Having said that, i'm not sure when the entries for 2010 have to be submitted by, if indeed that deadline has already passed (i assume it hasn't, given that Bernie assures us there will be be 3 more teams in the series for 2010 :lol: :lol: :lol: )

#31 Dolph

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 21:47

Originally posted by PNSD


What are you stupid?

The essense of Mclaren is racing! They are here to race in F1!

Pulling out because of a setback is abit silly! And think about all those workers, despite the bad PR and $100mil fine how would they have felt of Dennis just pulled out??! You cant just pull out because you dont agree with a ruling!

Mclaren will exsist in F1 for many many years to come in F1! Even if they get excluded from 09 (Almost an impossibility imo) they will continue and work for '10!


Exactly. Bloggsworth is just a drama queen. I think he quits his job every time he has a disagreement with his boss.

#32 Meanstreak

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 22:23

Originally posted by stevewf1


Then why is it called "McLaren" today?

It's not like I couldn't answer that question, but I don't understand how that relates to what I asked. :rolleyes:

#33 werks prototype

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 22:28

I realise McLarens rivals would like to see them wiped of the face of the earth, they are clearly a threat to certain records. However I think McLaren have become largely what the FIA have made them through their various witch hunts.

We all know in our hearts that Renault and Ferrari have routinely been allowed to get away with much much more.

I do think they should withdraw from the series though, F1 is not worthy of their contribution in my opinion, maybe come back post Max and Bernie. As long as Lewis keeps it British in the meantime, ie Brawn or Williams.

I don't know how Montezemolo, Todt, Schumacher and Flavio can keep so quite though, they must know what has gone on over the years.

#34 SchumiBoy

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 22:32

Originally posted by werks prototype
... I think McLaren have become largely what the FIA have made them through their various witch hunts.


Originally posted by werks prototype
We all know in our hearts that Renault and Ferrari have routinely been allowed to get away with much much more


Originally posted by werks prototype
F1 is not worthy of their contribution in my opinion


Hope you have some medication for that :eek: :eek:

#35 Like_a_Rocket

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 22:46

Hmmm I don't really know of any motorsport federation where cheating and lying is OK.

So I guess they're stuck with F1...

#36 ClubmanGT

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 22:58

There is some grade-A denial/fanboyism in this thread. Keep up the good work boys, hope you don't get melanoma from hanging around Ron Dennis's arse all day.

#37 MattPete

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 23:09

I was really hoping that the Nazi hooker business would have solved this once and for all. Alas, a lack of balls last summer means that we are stuck with Max.

#38 Anomnader

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 23:15

Originally posted by ClubmanGT
There is some grade-A denial/fanboyism in this thread. Keep up the good work boys, hope you don't get melanoma from hanging around Ron Dennis's arse all day.


When you are trying to score points on a moral subject it helps with your point when your not doing it while standing in the gutter. :down:

#39 Rob

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 23:20

I sincerely doubt that they'll be thrown out.

Given this hypothetical situation, I've got a suggestion. Mercedes buy any other team, relocate the team to the Paragon HQ, rename it "McLaren" and put all the ex-McLaren employees back in their old jobs. McLaren circumvent the punishment :)

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#40 Paolo

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 23:25

Well, let's play...
Mc Laren had a lot of success at Indy and in Can Am, so they are definitely able to race elsewhere.
The only technically challenging arena beside F1 is Le Mans, but it is not enough to justify their current size.
They probably could go the Lola way, producing race cars for spec series.
Or they could try and take the enormous F3 market out of Dallara hands: the category is still open, in theory.

#41 WillG

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 23:29

Originally posted by SchumiBoy






Hope you have some medication for that :eek: :eek:


Says the Ferrari fan :rotfl:

#42 Tolyngee

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 23:42

Originally posted by BuzzingHornet
I reckon they'll get a 3 race ban.

Hamilton could always move to Renault, i'm sure Alonso would be pleased to see him :lol:


I couldn't but get a mental image of the snapshots of Hammy, Alonso and Flavio in the pool together...

#43 scottb32

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 23:52

Originally posted by werks prototype
I realise McLarens rivals would like to see them wiped of the face of the earth


I don't think the other teams hate McLaren. The other teams want to see more competitors, not less. Each team consists of engineers, constructors, mechanics, IT personnel, team principals, etc. They know that if the whole of F1 succeeds, there is more revenue and sponsors. Sure, they want to win, but they really want to see F1 succeed as a whole (and keep getting paychecks for doing something interesting). F1 is not a zero-sum affair. F1 is a racing series and, monetarily-speaking, an entertainment venue. In some ways they're competing against FIFA or "Dancing with the Stars" or any other entertainment activity. If F1 can grow in viewership and revenue, every team will gain more money. The more we watch, the more the sponsors are willing to fork over.

If McLaren is kicked out, the other principals will probably react with disgust. The FIA has taken this whole affair way to far (again). Personally, I find the demise of McLaren (or Honda, for that matter) a very sad proposition.

#44 Kelateboy

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 00:59

Originally posted by BuzzingHornet
I reckon they'll get a 3 race ban.

Hamilton could always move to Renault, i'm sure Alonso would be pleased to see him :lol:

Hamilton will not relish the prospect of becoming Alonso's bitch at Renault.

-KB

#45 primer

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:26

Originally posted by REN_AF1
What racing series could Mclaren possibly participate in once the reality that FIA (or persons affiliated with same) will NEWER let go, sinks in for real?


They should refrain from all racing activities because if they continue to lie like they are doing now they will continue to get 'harrased' by regulating authorities.

By the way, it is indeed strange that liars are being punished. What is happening to humanity? :confused:

#46 Knot

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:56

Originally posted by SchumiBoy


Who says banned teams can test ?


I figure a banned team can do whatever it pleases.

;)

#47 wrighty

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:18

Originally posted by scottb32


I don't think the other teams hate McLaren. The other teams want to see more competitors, not less. Each team consists of engineers, constructors, mechanics, IT personnel, team principals, etc. They know that if the whole of F1 succeeds, there is more revenue and sponsors. Sure, they want to win, but they really want to see F1 succeed as a whole (and keep getting paychecks for doing something interesting). F1 is not a zero-sum affair. F1 is a racing series and, monetarily-speaking, an entertainment venue. In some ways they're competing against FIFA or "Dancing with the Stars" or any other entertainment activity. If F1 can grow in viewership and revenue, every team will gain more money. The more we watch, the more the sponsors are willing to fork over.

If McLaren is kicked out, the other principals will probably react with disgust. The FIA has taken this whole affair way to far (again). Personally, I find the demise of McLaren (or Honda, for that matter) a very sad proposition.


:up:

I dont know if anyone else has noticed, but i haven't seen any....as in ANY anti-McLaren statements by the other teams in relation to this......

#48 airwise

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:37

Originally posted by primer


They should refrain from all racing activities because if they continue to lie like they are doing now they will continue to get 'harrased' by regulating authorities.

By the way, it is indeed strange that liars are being punished. What is happening to humanity? :confused:


Jarno, Charlie and others aren;t being punished. Wierd.

Start a one make series ala ProCar. Buy the very best drivers from around the world (whose salaries will be capped in F1), put them in Mercedes branded Mclarens with enhanced KERS and Michelin Tyres, and sell the series to Sky and Fox. Reinvest any monies into driver salaries and make sure all of the best drivers are driving equal machinery that is faster than any current F1 design. Race at all the circuits nearing financial collapse thanks to being raped then discarded by Spanky and Greedy.

#49 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 10:36

Jarno did not lie I guess...Charlie didn't lie also

#50 alfa1

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 10:44

Originally posted by airwise
Start a one make series ala ProCar.



They could even race at Silverstone, Suzuka, Hockenheim, and all those other tracks that the FIA dont want to use anymore. They could use Goodyear or Michelin tyres.
They could even be a supplier to customer teams in that old F1 series.

Freed from the fear of punishment by the FIA, they could actually take the FIA to *real courts* to sort out some grievances. The *real courts* could start to ask questions of Max that he's never had to face before, because the teams were too scared to get on his wrong side. McLaren could start with Spa 2008, and the circumstances surrounding that hearing.