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The Greatest Ever to never win a WDC


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#1 WillG

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:29

I wanted to take a little break from all the negative press going around F1 lately. I have been thinking about past Formula1 drivers and started to realize that there are many greats that have never won a championship.

Who do you think is the greatest to never win a WDC? I would probably say David Coulthard or Stirling Moss. Gilles Villeneuve is another, but his career was cut short so we may never know...

Who's your pick?

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#2 Craven Morehead

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:40

Coulthard? :lol:

Check TNF, there's prolly a thread like this there with lots of well reasoned opinions.

#3 slideways

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:41

David Coulthard!?

#4 ray b

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:45

moss by a mile

dan the man

sorry DC is not on the short or long list

#5 senna da silva

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:48

Moss.

#6 ashnathan

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:49

De Cesaris.

#7 SevenTwoSeven

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:53

Id go for Jos 'the boss' Verstappen (if thats how you spell it)

#8 nordschleife

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 03:58

1. Sir Stirling Moss

2. Gilles Villeneuve

3. Ronnie Peterson

4. Dan Gurney

5. Rick Mears

6. A. J. Foyt

7. Juan Pablo Montoya

8. Mark Donohue

9. Parnelli Jones

10. Tony Brooks

11. Chris Amon

12. Tony Brise

13. Stefan Bellof

14. Tom Pryce

15. Francois Cevert

16. Jacky Ickx

17. Carlos Pace

18. Carlos Reutemann


I've put this list together in haste. On any given day I would surely rearrange the order. On the wise counsel of Vegetableman, Broadway and Bluesmoke I've added some names that I inexplicably forgot. Thanks, guys.

#9 Vegetableman

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 04:21

Decent list, but you're missing Chris Amon.

#10 Broadway

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 04:22

I think Ronnie Peterson is worth a mentioning. But like him and Gilles, many talented drivers died before they got lucky.

#11 Bluesmoke

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 04:31

Originally posted by nordschleife
1. Sir Stirling Moss

2. Gilles Villeneuve

3. Dan Gurney

4. Rick Mears

5. A. J. Foyt

6. Mark Donohue

7. Parnelli Jones

8. Tony Brooks

9. Tony Brise

10. Stefan Bellof

11. Tom Pryce

12. Francois Cevert

13. Jacky Ickx

14. Carlos Pace

15. Carlos Reutemann


I'd put Montoya up in that list.

#12 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 04:49

Juan Pablo Montoya

#13 Rob G

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 04:55

I'd say Moss, but I think Gurney, Villeneuve and Peterson deserve a mention. I'll also nominate Jean-Pierre Wimille as a candidate, since he raced in pre-WDC Formula One races in 1947 & 1948. In those two years, he had five victories and one second place in his six Grands Prix with Alfa Romeo.

#14 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 05:05

GV

#15 LukeM

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 05:07

gotta be moss and gilles at the top of the list

#16 pacwest

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 05:21

On pure natural talent - GV

#17 The Kanisteri

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 05:23

Jenson Button :cool:

#18 ensign14

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 06:12

For F1 drivers, Moss. Gurney probably next.

#19 Zippel

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 06:33

No mention of Elio de Angelis?

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#20 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 06:55

Originally posted by nordschleife
1. Sir Stirling Moss

2. Gilles Villeneuve

3. Ronnie Peterson

4. Dan Gurney

5. Rick Mears

6. A. J. Foyt

7. Juan Pablo Montoya

8. Mark Donohue

9. Parnelli Jones

10. Tony Brooks

11. Chris Amon

12. Tony Brise

13. Stefan Bellof

14. Tom Pryce

15. Francois Cevert

16. Jacky Ickx

17. Carlos Pace

18. Carlos Reutemann


I've put this list together in haste. On any given day I would surely rearrange the order. On the wise counsel of Vegetableman, Broadway and Bluesmoke I've added some names that I inexplicably forgot. Thanks, guys.


Pretty good list I agree with. I'd like to add Didier Pironi as well to this list.

#21 Bob Nomates

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 06:58

Johnny Herbert :up:

#22 hellbent

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:35

Stefan Bellof?
Oh well, Sebastian Vettel could be the 2nd coming of Stefan Bellof :)
I hope he would be luckier and win the WDC this year
Just my opinion

#23 Frans

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:36

Jos "The Boss" Verstappen of course. :smoking:

#24 smithy

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:37

Originally posted by Vegetableman
Decent list, but you're missing Chris Amon.

Whilst my heart wants Chris Amon to be there, you need to win races to win a WDC. Poor Chris belongs more in the second category.

#25 Kelateboy

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:42

Alex Yoong. :D

If only he had a Ferrari and not a Minardi....

-KB

#26 pUs

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:46

In modern times, Irvine and Montoya :up: Honourable mention to Ralf as well.

#27 WHITE

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:49

The list could be endless

- Louis Chiron

- George Follmer

- Jackye Oliver

- Vern Schuppan

- Peter Gethin

- Peter Revson

- Froilan Gonzalez

- Pedro Rodriguez

- etc.

#28 john ruston

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:03

The Moss list includes all the correct names and cetainly Moss should lead with GV and Gurney next.

Why the Montoya devotion?I do not understand.Decent to good equipment in F1 and NASCAR and a jouneyman type record,Good but certainly not great.

Two we will never know,Tony Brise and Tom Pryce

Don't understand the Chiron bit as he would be a bit old and if you include him you include all the Pre War greats

#29 ensign14

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:06

Even an endless list would not contain Vern Schuppan.

#30 WHITE

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:13

I was thinking of Vic Elford

#31 giltkid

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:23

Gilles most of all - but also Alboreto, Didier Pironi, Jacques Laffite, Carlos Reutemann, Jean Alesi (in particular)should have been rewarded with much more

#32 TT6

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:27

The list you're going to hate... based on the number of wins :wave:

[list=1]
[*]Moss
[*]Coulthard
[*]Reutemann
[*]Massa
[*]Peterson
[*]Berger
[*]Barrichello
[*]Ickx
[*]Arnoux
[*]Montoya
[/list=1]

#33 LuNaeika

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:42

montoya :cat:

#34 Dalton007

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 08:46

Martin Brundle.

#35 wdh

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:02

Originally posted by TT6
The list you're going to hate... based on the number of wins :wave:
...

The raw number of wins is an easy and therefore easily misleading figure.

In the past there were far fewer GP's each year.
Careers were tragically short. To survive for three full seasons anywhere near the front of the field was itself a measure of greatness.

There are lots of great drivers that haven't been mentioned yet. No Siffert. No Seaman. Not even von Trips who got so close. Let alone really quick guys that never got a proper chance to show in GP's just what they could do. Folk like Roger Williamson.



But on a very short list of people that were truly outstanding in their day, I'd say Moss, because its pretty much obligatory, but right up with him would be Peterson for sheer speed and Ickx for results in uncompetitive (GP) machinery.

#36 ViMaMo

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:10

Drivers who came 2nd but never won the WDC (60s to the early 80s) :

1960 Bruce McLaren
1961 Wolfgang von Trips
1969 Jacky Ickx
1970 Jacky Ickx
1971 Ronnie Peterson
1974 Clay Regazzoni
1978 Ronnie Peterson
1979 Gilles Villeneuve
1981 Carlos Reutemann
1982 Didier Pironi

#37 27GV

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 10:31

Moss by far.

Gurney, Brooks, Gilles, Ickx, Peterson, McLaren should surely follow.

On the "who knows what could have been" side you must have Brise, Pryce, Rodriguez, Cevert and Beallof

#38 Barramut

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:15

Mark Webber or Jackes Villeneuve.

#39 MegaManson

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:18

Originally posted by Barramut
Jackes Villeneuve.


Do you mean Gilles brother ? or the 1997 F1 world champion ?

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#40 MegaManson

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:19

Going back to the thread itself its Gilles Villeneuve for me by some margin

#41 TT6

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:25

Originally posted by wdh
In the past there were far fewer GP's each year.
Careers were tragically short.


Maybe just divide the number of wins by the number of attended races? If that won't help, then exclude Coulthard, Massa and Montoya by some other criteria. :D

#42 Kop Alonso

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:30

Well for me its got to be Didier Pironi

:clap:

#43 Georg_Kuyumji

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:41

Stirling Moss, Gilles Villeneuve and Montoya

#44 Barramut

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 11:53

Originally posted by MegaManson


Do you mean Gilles brother ? or the 1997 F1 world champion ?

No sh*t :eek:
Jackes became F1 WDC ?

#45 john ruston

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:00

Not worked it out but would think that Moss wins the GP's driven against wins ratio as well .Min no of drives 20.Coultard now that a good one when you consider JV,Gurney,etc.The French gang Arneoux,Tambay,and those 70/80's drivers should take precedence over Coultard,Montoya,and why include Pre War drivers as its pretty obvious why they didn't win WDC.Some of the opinions show an illogical thought process.Thank god its not an important discussion but could provide a pool of personnel for Max to find his next Race Stewards

#46 MegaManson

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:04

Originally posted by john ruston
Not worked it out but would think that Moss wins the GP's driven against wins ratio as well .Min no of drives 20.Coultard now that a good one when you consider JV,Gurney,etc


Have I misread it or have you too forgotten that JV won a world title ?

#47 Jambo

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:04

Moss and Gilles one of those two. either one really.

#48 john ruston

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:09

Getting my JV's And GV's muddled.It's my age.Obviously Gilles as the son was lucky to win anything and screwed his career up due to a poor choice of management and money.Thinking about it Lewis could make the same mistake.

#49 roughage

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:16

Got to be Rene Arnoux. How gutted would Prost have been if Arnoux's pace had been matched by reliability in 1982? :D How good looking was the Renault Re30B? Best looking Formula One car of the 80's by a distance..

http://farm4.static....pg?v=1206216627

I don't think that it's copywritten...

#50 27GV

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:21

Originally posted by john ruston
Getting my JV's And GV's muddled.It's my age.Obviously Gilles as the son was lucky to win anything and screwed his career up due to a poor choice of management and money.Thinking about it Lewis could make the same mistake.


Gilles was Jacques father. :rolleyes: