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Where is Jacques Villeneuve?


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#901 BoschKurve

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 00:05

I think JV is so overrated, that he has essentially become underrated.

To hear people talk these days about him, it's almost as if the fact that he actually had talent was an affront to the gods themselves...or that he didn't actually have much ability, yet somehow lucked into a CART title and the F1 title. His fatal mistake was joining BAR, had he gone to McLaren, we might refer to JV as a double or triple world champion for all we know. Alas, no such thing happened.

But I've got immense respect for what he did in racing, even if his personal tastes in things were somewhat suspect.

In that ESPN article above, I like the Danica Patrick quote.

Patrick was not in a forgiving mood. "After all the things that have happened, it's hard to have any respect for someone like that. I have respect for his career, but I can't respect him for what he does to others on the race track."

JV did what many would love to do to her, he gave it to her from behind. For that, I applaud him.

It amuses me to see NASCAR guys who haven't even accomplished 1/10th of what he did mouthing off. I don't know, I'd rather get slagged off by them knowing I won races at the highest levels of motorsport and had championships to show for it. Funny thing is, if it were JV's old man behind the wheel, they'd probably all consider it an honor to bang wheels with GV.

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#902 pingu666

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:24

jv did a terrible job explaining what happed with danica. he got shoved onto the grass and couldnt slow down enough because of that, and danica was in the way. he didnt shove her off on purpose


#903 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:31

jv did a terrible job explaining what happed with danica. he got shoved onto the grass and couldnt slow down enough because of that, and danica was in the way. he didnt shove her off on purpose


He had a lot of wheel hop under braking and couldn't slow down. It wouldn't have mattered if it was anyone else but Danica.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 25 June 2013 - 04:47.


#904 Myrvold

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:10

jv did a terrible job explaining what happed with danica. he got shoved onto the grass and couldnt slow down enough because of that, and danica was in the way. he didnt shove her off on purpose


Like it would've mattered much. He hit Danica...

#905 V3TT3L

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:38

Like it would've mattered much. He hit Danica...

The name is Princess Sparkle Pony and not Princess Spank Pony.

#906 Andrew Hope

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:50

When thinking of Danica "spank" is usually the word that comes to mind.

#907 Craven Morehead

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:03

:lol: :lol:

#908 Sakae

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:23

The most surprising thing I find is that this is actually news to anyone.
Been this way for about three years now.

I used to be fan of his earlier in his career (Atlantic series, and early Indy), but then it went down-hill once he started talking about F1. I do not follow him now, but from time to time headlines re-appear, so we have him back.

#909 mnmracer

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:23

He had a lot of wheel hop traction control under braking and couldn't slow down. It wouldn't have mattered if it was anyone else but Danica.



#910 motorhead

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:44

Don't know what you're on about here. JV was mostly positive about MS' comeback.


He bashed Kimi´s comeback on many occasions, maybe the results has shut his mouth

Edited by motorhead, 25 June 2013 - 10:44.


#911 Craven Morehead

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:32

JV did what many would love to do to her, he gave it to her from behind. For that, I applaud him.


Nicely done. :lol: :lol:


#912 four1

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 13:48

Who is Jaques Villeneuve?

#913 ViMaMo

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 15:19

6th person most popular person on wiki with Jacques as first name.

#914 BoschKurve

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 15:35

Who is Jaques Villeneuve?


I don't know who Jaques Villeneuve is, but I do know of a Jacques Villeneuve.

Edited by BoschKurve, 25 June 2013 - 15:35.


#915 fastlegs

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 16:11

To all the JV bashers I would say that myself and millions of other people wouldn't mind a CART championship, Indy 500 win, a WDC and the ability and opportunity to race in various venues throughout the world. :)

#916 four1

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 16:31

I don't know who Jaques Villeneuve is, but I do know of a Jacques Villeneuve.


You can 'c' what I mean...even the letters in his name are trying to abandon him :)


#917 Myrvold

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 17:58

He bashed Kimi´s comeback on many occasions, maybe the results has shut his mouth


4Chan style: SAUCE !

#918 BoschKurve

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 18:37

To all the JV bashers I would say that myself and millions of other people wouldn't mind a CART championship, Indy 500 win, a WDC and the ability and opportunity to race in various venues throughout the world. :)


I believe JV may be the most polarizing F1 driver of the last 17 seasons.

While many may be quick to point to Schumacher, I'd dispute that by saying that MS's talent was never really called into question other by a very, very small minority. JV's talent has been called into question for years by everyone and their mother. Was he ever the most talented driver to sit on the grid during his time in F1? Certainly not, but talent alone does not win championships in F1. This isn't Formula Ford. However, he was very fast, and perhaps one could say he was more versatile than any of the top drivers he lined up against in F1.

#919 Zippel

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 23:35

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's a real shame he didn't come over here and take on the V8 Supercars full-time.


Who would have given him a full-time drive? Particularly after taking out no less than 4 cars in the first corner of his first race. Who has money to burn?

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#920 holiday

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 00:01

Don't know what you're on about here. JV was mostly positive about MS' comeback.


My impression either. I was shocked to see that they may be even on good terms. Sports rivalries aren't what they used to be. Ali and Frazier could not stand each other right to the death bed.

#921 f1fan1998

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:09

news coming...



#922 FullThrottleF1

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:18

news coming...

Eh?



#923 jonpollak

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:37

He bashed Kimi´s comeback on many occasions, maybe the results has shut his mouth

Then this article will piss you off as well

:lol:

 

 

news flash

JV goes Euro-NASCAR

 

http://www.nascarwhe...-great-success/

 

Jp


Edited by jonpollak, 20 December 2013 - 12:39.


#924 f1fan1998

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 23:29

Global rally cross anyone?

#925 Eff One 2002

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:05



Who would have given him a full-time drive? Particularly after taking out no less than 4 cars in the first corner of his first race. Who has money tappeo burn?

Actually watch the footage instead of going along with the common misperception and your well-known hardwired dislike for JV. toungey2.gifFirst Luke Youlden drove like a blind old lady and sideswiped him and then for good measure, the #33 Gary Rogers Commodore of Greg Ritter tapped him in the back which sent him spinning. It wasn't JV's fault. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dhJZJ7A8BEc


Edited by Eff One 2002, 01 February 2014 - 02:21.


#926 pacwest

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:11

I believe JV may be the most polarizing F1 driver of the last 17 seasons.

While many may be quick to point to Schumacher, I'd dispute that by saying that MS's talent was never really called into question other by a very, very small minority. JV's talent has been called into question for years by everyone and their mother. Was he ever the most talented driver to sit on the grid during his time in F1? Certainly not, but talent alone does not win championships in F1. This isn't Formula Ford. However, he was very fast, and perhaps one could say he was more versatile than any of the top drivers he lined up against in F1.

 

I watched ponytail boy racing indy lights and was enthralled at his racecraft. Watched him win the Indy 501 then was thrilled to see him in a Williams. The guy had and or has speed and guile. A good combination of go for the hole and keep it off the grass.

 

You might understand him more if you understood the Quebecois better.



#927 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:00

People say nonconformist regarding Räikkönen. But I think Villeneuve was much more a maverick-kinda f1 driver.



#928 slmk

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:10

Wasn't Villeneuve supposed to come back and use the flich throttle technique he learned from Senna?



#929 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:52

I think JV is so overrated, that he has essentially become underrated.

 

Interesting thought. Anyway, no matter how much fun they make of him. Compared to Coulthard in the Williams, Villeneuve was more impressive. And yet, it was Coulthard who was the one who ended in a McLaren...

 

Villeneuve following the "adventure path" called "BAR" was the same like Fittipaldi following the "adventure path" called "Copersucar"... What a shame. So wasted. 

 

In both cases: Best qualifying positions: 5th and two or three podium finishes for each of them...



#930 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 11:15

Under-rated. 

 

Could have achieved so much more had the BAR adventure not happened.



#931 chipmcdonald

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:39

To all the JV bashers I would say that myself and millions of other people wouldn't mind a CART championship, Indy 500 win, a WDC and the ability and opportunity to race in various venues throughout the world. :)

 

 

Yeah, he sucks,  the average guy here could probably drive a car better than him and Danica has sharp knees.  Standards and all that.



#932 Juan Kerr

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 13:03

Wasn't Villeneuve supposed to come back and use the flich throttle technique he learned from Senna?

When did he learn that? It was something Senna did to avoid Turbo lag in slow corners in the 80's, ironically Jacques Villeneuve is still riding on his father legacy even after winning championships.



#933 Andrew Hope

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 16:47

How is he riding on his father's legacy?



#934 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 05:12

People say nonconformist regarding Räikkönen. But I think Villeneuve was much more a maverick-kinda f1 driver.

The difference is that Kimi didn't let that side of him destroy his career.  JV is one of those smart guys who are too enamored with their intelligence to realize that they don't know everything about everything, and as a result look foolish quite regularly.  Brad Keselowski is another one like that in the making.



#935 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:03

When did he learn that? It was something Senna did to avoid Turbo lag in slow corners in the 80's, ironically Jacques Villeneuve is still riding on his father legacy even after winning championships.

 

Nonsense, he achieved far more than his father did.

 

His father may have have a cult following, but Jacques is far more accomplished and deserves his own [high ranking] legacy.



#936 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:39

The difference is that Kimi didn't let that side of him destroy his career.

 

One should also not forget that Räikkönen also has A+ managers. Aren't they said to be the best or the toughest negotiators?

 

On the other hand, you're right, of course. Räikkönen would've never been "so über smart" to follow a career-suicide path called "BAR"...

 

Anyway, speaking of BAR: maybe the most impressive performance of JVilleneuve in F1 (apart from Estoril 1996 and his WDC title) were his qualifiying performances in Imola 1999 and Barcelona 1999 regarding the fact that someone (Salo) who could've easily won in his second guest appearane at Ferrari later that season, was one and two seconds behind Villeneuve in the starting grid. It must have been a tremendous achievement for Villeneuve in those s...boxes of cars. OK, Salo was a guest driver, but he was also a guest driver later in that season at Ferrari and he could, in most cases, easily duplicate the times of Irvine. So the fact that Salo was only a "guest driver" at BAR is not an excuse for his one-and-two-second gaps to Villeneuve.



#937 Paco

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 14:49

Wow.. people are still slagging him after a decade..

 

Seriously people.. get over it.  Sure he has.    He was a great a driver.. we all know he put toooooo much faith in the BAR project but then again.. all the pieces where there to think just maybe it could work out.  Then he stuck it out too long, jumping around making bad decision due to his management team.  Maybe he did race with a Chip on his shoulder trying to always prove himself due to the constant comparisons to his mythical father (who accomplished way less then his son)..

 

That said.. as for performance...even though he won't talk about it much in public.. after the major accident that hurt his back - it took the edge off of his racing and ever since that day he was never the same racer.  Much like Kimi and even Schumi.. racing with an injury (even if healed) in F1 and most other series you are unable to get back to 100%... mentally and physically.. you come to realize you are not superman.   As soon as Jacques lost that.. it was the beginning of the end for him.  I will admist, Kimi ability to drive with his pain is pretty freaking remarkable.

 

What Jacques has done is far far far far more in his career then almost anyone has every done .. easily in the top 99.9% of racers in the world.   Period.  Almost anyone .. ANYONE would love to have the career, wins and experience that Mr. Jacques Villeneuve achieved.  


Edited by Paco, 04 February 2014 - 14:54.


#938 fastlegs

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 17:51

Yeah, he sucks,  the average guy here could probably drive a car better than him and Danica has sharp knees.  Standards and all that.

 

I hope you play guitar better than you post.



#939 chipmcdonald

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 18:29

I hope you play guitar better than you post.

 

 

As opposed to that brilliant nugget of information?  I'm sorry, who are you again?  Jacque's driving coach?  :rolleyes:



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#940 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 21:23

Every time I see this thread on the front page I'm disappointed that there isn't one of these going on, so I'm going to correct it.

 

WheresVilleneuve_zps118b70d6.jpg



#941 Bimmer

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:32

IMO Jacques VIlleneuve is one of the best F1 drivers ever. It was really great to watch how he drove, how he overtaking (for example Estoril 1996 when he overtook Schumacher outside etc). He was one of drivers, who didn't only calculate tactics, but he attacked and always took a lot of risk. If F1 would have more drivers like Villeneuve, it would be much more interesting to watch.


Edited by Bimmer, 05 February 2014 - 06:32.


#942 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 05:41

Actually watch the footage instead of going along with the common misperception and your well-known hardwired dislike for JV. toungey2.gifFirst Luke Youlden drove like a blind old lady and sideswiped him and then for good measure, the #33 Gary Rogers Commodore of Greg Ritter tapped him in the back which sent him spinning. It wasn't JV's fault. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dhJZJ7A8BEc

JV was unloaded but tried to turn it around on the throttle,, infront of the pack. Not the smartest idea!
The Surfers is a track that if you don't hit someone once a lap you get black flagged. Several of the tracks they 'race?' on are like that

#943 sennafan24

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:41

IMO Jacques VIlleneuve is one of the best F1 drivers ever. 

I would not go that far. Maybe a bit underrated, and a big "what if" due to the career path he took, but one of the best? I disagree. Hill, Mika and Schumi for my money were all better drivers than him, so it is arguable he is not even one of the best of his era. Hill outperformed him in 1996 and by more than the points margin showed in my opinion.

 

I say "arguable" though, because you could argue J,V beating Frentzen 81-42 in points, and 5-3 in races ahead when both finished in 1997 is proof that J.V was a elite driver of his time. The gap did close significantly in 1998 between the 2, where it was 4-4 in races finished ahead when both finished, and 21-17 in points to J.V, That shows for that year, they were quite evenly matched to say the least. It was only a year later that Frentzen outperformed an aging Hill, and got the Jordan into title contention, so it is not like J.V was beating a complete dummy head to head.

 

So yeah, I would say J.V was a top 3-5 driver in his Williams years, and maybe for a few years after that. But I do not think that warrants being an all time great. Just my opinion.


Edited by sennafan24, 08 February 2014 - 01:42.


#944 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:57

I would not go that far. Maybe a bit underrated, and a big "what if" due to the career path he took, but one of the best? I disagree. Hill, Mika and Schumi for my money were all better drivers than him, so it is arguable he is not even one of the best of his era. Hill outperformed him in 1996 and by more than the points margin showed in my opinion.

 

I say "arguable" though, because you could argue J,V beating Frentzen 81-42 in points, and 5-3 in races ahead when both finished in 1997 is proof that J.V was a elite driver of his time. The gap did close significantly in 1998 between the 2, where it was 4-4 in races finished ahead when both finished, and 21-17 in points to J.V, That shows for that year, they were quite evenly matched to say the least. It was only a year later that Frentzen outperformed an aging Hill, and got the Jordan into title contention, so it is not like J.V was beating a complete dummy head to head.

 

So yeah, I would say J.V was a top 3-5 driver in his Williams years, and maybe for a few years after that. But I do not think that warrants being an all time great. Just my opinion.

I suppose you base your judgement on his F1 career only, because if you were not so blinkered you might realize he is one of the best drivers ever that chose to race a bit in F1.



#945 Myrvold

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 02:02

I would not go that far. Maybe a bit underrated, and a big "what if" due to the career path he took, but one of the best? I disagree. Hill, Mika and Schumi for my money were all better drivers than him, so it is arguable he is not even one of the best of his era. Hill outperformed him in 1996 and by more than the points margin showed in my opinion.

 

I say "arguable" though, because you could argue J,V beating Frentzen 81-42 in points, and 5-3 in races ahead when both finished in 1997 is proof that J.V was a elite driver of his time. The gap did close significantly in 1998 between the 2, where it was 4-4 in races finished ahead when both finished, and 21-17 in points to J.V, That shows for that year, they were quite evenly matched to say the least. It was only a year later that Frentzen outperformed an aging Hill, and got the Jordan into title contention, so it is not like J.V was beating a complete dummy head to head.

 

So yeah, I would say J.V was a top 3-5 driver in his Williams years, and maybe for a few years after that. But I do not think that warrants being an all time great. Just my opinion.

You know that, even though it's quite reasonable, you are taking the Hill > Villeneuve > Frentzen > Hill > Villeneuve > Frentzen > Hill > Villeneuve > Frentzen route.



#946 sennafan24

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 02:06

I suppose you base your judgement on his F1 career only, because if you were not so blinkered you might realize he is one of the best drivers ever that chose to race a bit in F1.

Depends on what you classify J.V as then.

 

Yes he did have a very decorated racing career, and was successful in other Formulas, and did very well in F1. But I was basing my ranking of J.V solely on what he.did in F1, compared to other F1 drivers on what they did solely in F1. 

 

If we are talking about drivers in general, different debate, but the post I responded to said " one of the best F1 drivers ever" which I disagree with

 

You know that, even though it's quite reasonable, you are taking the Hill > Villeneuve > Frentzen > Hill > Villeneuve > Frentzen > Hill > Villeneuve > Frentzen route.

Yeah, I know.

 

However, I did underline that Hill was aging in 1999, and was not the same beast J.V faced (or at least that is how it seemed). But yes, different drivers will thrive under different conditions and circumstances. I was just giving my opinion on how well J.V compared in the situations and conditions he faced, and the teammates he faced head to head.


Edited by sennafan24, 08 February 2014 - 02:09.


#947 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:07



I would not go that far. Maybe a bit underrated, and a big "what if" due to the career path he took, but one of the best? I disagree. Hill, Mika and Schumi for my money were all better drivers than him, so it is arguable he is not even one of the best of his era. Hill outperformed him in 1996 and by more than the points margin showed in my opinion.

 

Yes, but one little addition has to be made: nevertheless, Villeneuve was kinda more consistent. What I mean? Villeneuve didn't have as many "ups and downs" like Hill...

 

For Hill, it was win, win, failure (Nürburg), win, total failure (Barcelona), win, win, technical DNF (not his fault), win, win, failure (Spa), total failure (Monza), kinda failure (Estoril), win.

 

For example, there were too many unexplicable situations where Villeneuve could fight for the win or for podium and Hill had strange results (4th in Nürburg or even only 5th in Spa, though the latter one was at his fourth attempt regarding the WDC), although the car didn't have any technical issues in those races in Nürburg or Spa (at least, as far as I know). If the car had technical issues in those races, nobody woud've the right to complain much about it. But, as I said before, I guess there wasn't any technical issues in Nürburg or Spa. Those were poor results and Villeneuve was a victory contender or at least a podium contender in those races.

 

That's why I say that Villeneuve was more consistent because of the fact that Villeneuve was ALWAYS at least on the podium in 1996 when he didn't have DNFs.

 

Or, another example, Hill was about to have "matchball" in Spa and he couldn't get it. Then he had his first matchball in Monza (and everybody knows what happend), afterwards he had his second matchball in Estoril (he could've won there). At last, in Suzuka he did it at his fourth attempt in mostly more than convincing cars (bar 1994 maybe... that car doesn't stand by far in the same row as the 1993, 1995, 1996 Williams).

 

So, Villeneuve was even in 1996 better than expected.

 

And so I think the Hill > Villeneuve > Frentzen > Hill paradoxon doesn't count.

 

Why?

 

Villeneuve was much closer to Hill (he could've also very well be WDC in 1996 in his first attempt compared to Hill's fourth attempt) but Frentzen who was beaten by Villeneuve wasn't by far as close as Villeneuve regarding "getting the WDC in 1997" and Hill was of course by far not as good as Frentzen getting the contendership of the 1999 WDC (billions of self induced DNFs all over the season in 1999 for Hill).

 

So in general, in WDC-possible seasons Hill beat Villeneuve marginally whereas Frentzen and Hill were beaten extremely in 1997 or 1999. So it is probably more like Villeneuve > Frentzen > Hill.

 

[Sorry once again for the very simple and clumsy grammar or sentence structures.]



#948 Dolph

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:19

Depends on what you classify J.V as then.

 

Yes he did have a very decorated racing career, and was successful in other Formulas, and did very well in F1. But I was basing my ranking of J.V solely on what he.did in F1, compared to other F1 drivers on what they did solely in F1. 

 

If we are talking about drivers in general, different debate, but the post I responded to said " one of the best F1 drivers ever" which I disagree with

 

Yeah, I know.

 

However, I did underline that Hill was aging in 1999, and was not the same beast J.V faced (or at least that is how it seemed). But yes, different drivers will thrive under different conditions and circumstances. I was just giving my opinion on how well J.V compared in the situations and conditions he faced, and the teammates he faced head to head.

 

 

That right there just shows your extreme bias. "Did very well in F1"? The guy was a freakin world champion!! During the period he was active there were 5 people who became world champion. He was one of them. He did absolutely excellent!

 



#949 sennafan24

sennafan24
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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:24

That right there just shows your extreme bias. "Did very well in F1"? The guy was a freakin world champion!! During the period he was active there were 5 people who became world champion. He was one of them. He did absolutely excellent!

 

We are arguing semantics there though. I would not argue against him doing excellently. "Very well" is not exactly a indication I thought he did average is it?

 

I just do not think he is an all time great in F1 when compared to the likes of Schumi, Mika and Hill. The former 2 I think were better F1 drivers than him, and the latter I thought was at least on his level.

 

You cannot expect everyone to give a driver you like the world of credit.


Edited by sennafan24, 08 February 2014 - 12:27.


#950 sennafan24

sennafan24
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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:32

 

 

So in general, in WDC-possible seasons Hill beat Villeneuve marginally whereas Frentzen and Hill were beaten extremely in 1997 or 1999. So it is probably more like Villeneuve > Frentzen > Hill.

 

[Sorry once again for the very simple and clumsy grammar or sentence structures.]

Yes, but Hill was disinterested and almost retired in 1999 when HHF beat him head to head. Look at the stats I pointed out, whilst it is true J.V beat Frentzen significantly in 1997, in 1998 they were pretty evenly matched. 

 

There is enough scope to rate J.V over Hill, I would not scoff at that, but you have rated drivers there based on them being drones, they all faced each other at different times. No doubt, J.V was a rookie in 1997, so I guess that earns him some leeway, but you have to be consistent and notice that Hill was for lack of better term "over the hill" in 1999.


Edited by sennafan24, 08 February 2014 - 12:36.