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Ugly non-F1 open-wheelers


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#51 arttidesco

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 12:32

I agree with you Re. Alpha, not conventional, slighly out of proportion layout, but far from ugly, has flowing lines, nice effort for the time and place


And all done on a budget of a packet of fags and a tank of oxy acetylene I imagine :-)

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#52 tinkerwinker

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 12:38

And all done on a budget of a packet of fags and a tank of oxy acetylene I imagine :-)


and still have change for a bag of chips and a can of Tizer

#53 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 13:33

What we really need here are photos of the Argit Minx and the IRM Holden...

Anyone got those?

#54 eibyyz

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 00:23

I agree with you Re. Alpha, not conventional, slighly out of proportion layout, but far from ugly, has flowing lines, nice effort for the time and place


Reminds me of Ongais' 1981 Interscope taken to another level.


#55 EvDelft

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 09:46

indy cars are ugly in their current form

BUT they do run nose to tail far better then F-1 and PASS

what makes them able to do so that F-1 canNOT

I agree. I rather see an ugly fast car that can overtake then a beautiful fast car that cannot.

And what is Ugly? The March 792 doesn't qualify to me as ugly. But that's a matter of taste, I suppose?

#56 Graham Clayton

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 01:05

The 1969 GRAC MT8 that was entered in the French F3 championship:

http://www.dlg.speed.../autos/2304.php

#57 Barry Boor

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:54

Maybe it's just me but I like that Grac.

#58 Vicuna

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:12

Me too BB

#59 Stephen W

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:28

I just found this one in, on(?) a brasilian blog. I have no idea about the portuguese language but F5000 appears in the text a few times. So i guess it's a F-5000 build by Antonio Carlos Avallone.

Posted Image

By the way: that Eagle Flyer-Chevy is imho not that ugly. It just looks like some fighter spacecraft from a SciFi movie and not like a race car.



Is my memory playing tricks with me, or did I see Carlos Avallone race in F5000 at Brands Hatch?



The Avallone car looks like a Lola T142 in fancy dress...

No wonder he's got his head in his hands!


Carlos Avallone did race in the UK F5000 and had a big shunt at Oulton Park in a Lola which then caught fire. The photo does look like the Lola that has had additional bodywork strapped on and maybe that was for the South American Can-Am series. Avallone alos built a 'proper' Can-Am car using the Lola F5000's suspension and some Lola Can-Am bodywork.


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#60 nmansellfan

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:12

How well did the Grac MT8 perform? With that front wing and huge tyre widths for an F3 car with 115BHP to power it, it must have been able to use all of its power without ever breaking traction?

#61 backfire

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:53

I remember going to an early season Mallory clubbie in 1969 and Avallone entered his Lola T140 (not 142) in the Libre race, which he ran away with. However, when he appeared at the Guards F5000 round in May he was thoroughly outclassed. He obviously used the bits from the T140 to build an Interserie type contraption.

#62 MCS

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 13:00

The 1969 GRAC MT8 that was entered in the French F3 championship:


For those who don't know already, see Gérard Gamand's magnificent book, GRAC 1964-1974.

#63 Jon Petersen

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 22:16

"Strewth, who built that??"
"Vin did."

Hence the car's name, the Vindid.

Vin Smith had a front engined, de-dion-rear-axle single seater called the Alpha. Come the rear engined revolution, he moved the engine back as far as it could go, put the driver's seat and wheel in the former engine bay, draped his legs over the top tube of the VW based front suspension, and bingo: rear engined racer. It lasted one season, then he built a proper rear-engined from scratch. (It show's Vin's lateral thinking - his new car had a VW gearbox, but instead of swing axles, he sourced the box from a Tempo Wagen, which used VW engine and box to drive the front wheels - and got a proper IRS on the cheap, drive shafts and all.

Posted Image



But - that car is not ugly, is it? Just a little different, but nice flowing lines, I think!

Jon

#64 Kart15

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 00:04

looks like a pig´s penis, but nice wheels.

#65 Stephen W

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:31

I remember going to an early season Mallory clubbie in 1969 and Avallone entered his Lola T140 (not 142) in the Libre race, which he ran away with. However, when he appeared at the Guards F5000 round in May he was thoroughly outclassed. He obviously used the bits from the T140 to build an Interserie type contraption.


The "Interserie type contraption" became the basis of his Can-Am type car which I saw at Aintree within the last few years.


#66 Jon Petersen

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 13:57

looks like a pig´s penis, but nice wheels.


Well, who am I to judge that....


:blush:

Jon


#67 Graham Clayton

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:50

Would anyone be able to identify the slab-bodied Formula Vee on the right, which was photographed at the Levin circuit in New Zealand in November 1969? The driver is David Carswell.

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Source: http://horowhenua.ke...ng-circuit-1969

#68 opplock

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:26

The FV no 156 was listed in programme for the 29 November 1969 Levin meeting as a Pine Tree Vee. Either self-built or anticipating by a few years Lotus rebranding their F1 cars as JPS. Most of the other Vees entered were listed simply as Formula Vee. I always thought the early NZ Vees were extremely ugly.

#69 Rob G

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:47

They should have called it the Pinewood Derby Vee.

#70 David McKinney

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 13:17

Relying on ancient memory, I think Dave Carswell was an associate of Barry Munro, who had built NZ's first Vee in 1967. Both were, at different times, based at the army camp at Waiouru. I would say it was a one-off

Dave Hayward, in 155, was also in the armed forces, and would race FF cars in SE Asia a few years later

#71 Graham Clayton

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:37

1963 Deep Sanderson DS 105:

Posted Image

Source: http://bringatrailer...n-twinny-racer/

#72 Cargo

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 13:46

Not exactly an ugly car, but certainly unusual - Smokey Yunick's sidecar racer is worth a look :well:

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#73 Bloggsworth

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 15:27

The Dreossi Special was built from a drop tank from a F86 Sabre Jet:

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Edited by Bloggsworth, 28 April 2013 - 15:36.


#74 Paolo

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 20:33

Not exactly an ugly car, but certainly unusual - Smokey Yunick's sidecar racer is worth a look :well:

Posted Image


The hand bumpers deserve probably an explanation of their own...

#75 DampMongoose

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 14:33

Any mentions so far of the Preston Tucker special from Indy in the 40's? Or the Antares? Or even the Parnelli with the wings on the sidepods? I'm sure some kind person with the wherewithal can post an image of some of these...

#76 alansart

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 16:50

Or even the Parnelli with the wings on the sidepods? I'm sure some kind person with the wherewithal can post an image of some of these...


This one... http://farm1.staticf...38c6_z.jpg?zz=1


#77 DampMongoose

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 20:07

This one... http://farm1.staticf...38c6_z.jpg?zz=1


Yes although my memory was of that car in a yellow or pale orange colour... But thats the car or very close, the wings are smaller than I remember, although they did take them off for the year after?

Thanks Alan, any pics of the others? The Preston tucker looked like a half arsed auto union...

Edited by DampMongoose, 30 April 2013 - 20:13.


#78 arttidesco

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 20:29

Yes although my memory was of that car in a yellow or pale orange colour... the wings are smaller than I remember, although they did take them off for the year after?

Thanks Alan, any pics of the others? The Preston tucker looked like a half arsed auto union...

Joe Leonards Parnelli also available in yellow, and as you say later sans the odd mounted wings.

Miller Preston Tucker Special IMHO way ahead of the curve explored much later by Cooper and Lotus  ;)


#79 DampMongoose

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 20:55

Joe Leonards Parnelli also available in yellow, and as you say later sans the odd mounted wings.

Miller Preston Tucker Special IMHO way ahead of the curve explored much later by Cooper and Lotus ;)


Thanks art, although I can't see the first two? The Preston Tucker is the one but the b&w pic I saw made it look uglier...

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#80 funformula

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 21:08

The hand bumpers deserve probably an explanation of their own...


The Indy Car regulation required bumpers on the car. Yunick had forgotten them in the first place. To pass the scrutineering and to tease the marshals he mounted the hands as bumper.
For qualifying the car finally appeared with regular bumpers.

#81 arttidesco

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 21:13

Thanks art, although I can't see the first two?


The links worked fine just now :|


#82 DampMongoose

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 21:32

The links worked fine just now :|


Oh I just get a tripod logo? Although I am on my phone...


#83 Graham Clayton

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:19

1958 Hartmann Mk 1:

Posted Image

Source: http://www.dlg.speed...os/mk1_1958.jpg

#84 wildman

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:39

Any mentions so far of the Preston Tucker special from Indy in the 40's? Or the Antares? Or even the Parnelli with the wings on the sidepods? I'm sure some kind person with the wherewithal can post an image of some of these...

Did someone say Antares?

Posted Image

#85 wildman

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:56

Yes although my memory was of that car in a yellow or pale orange colour... But thats the car or very close, the wings are smaller than I remember, although they did take them off for the year after?

Not just the wings, they took the entire car off the track in '73, in favor of this stunner...

Posted Image

#86 BRG

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 17:44

Did someone say Antares?

Posted Image

Oh good grief! That is awful - why did anyone think it would be any good?

Which kinds of begs the question, did any of these ugly cars ever prove very effective, or is there a direct link between looks and success? Or do we see ugliness differently if we see that it is successful?

#87 Nemo1965

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:50

Oh good grief! That is awful - why did anyone think it would be any good?

Which kinds of begs the question, did any of these ugly cars ever prove very effective, or is there a direct link between looks and success? Or do we see ugliness differently if we see that it is successful?


Well... search your conscience. Do you think the Brabham Fan car is ugly? (Winning car)

And the Arrows A2 pretty? (Losing car)

Edited by Nemo1965, 14 May 2013 - 11:51.


#88 Michael Ferner

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 16:20

Oh good grief! That is awful - why did anyone think it would be any good?


Nobody did - it was "designed by a computer"! :drunk:

#89 DampMongoose

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:29

Did someone say Antares?

Posted Image


:clap: Ask a 4 year old to draw a racing car and you might find a more aesthetically pleasing design...

#90 BRG

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:41

Well... search your conscience. Do you think the Brabham Fan car is ugly? (Winning car)

And the Arrows A2 pretty? (Losing car)

I don't think that either car was particularly pretty or ugly. Both were interesting experiments.

I am trying to think of a winning car that was generally considered to be ugly, but nothing comes to mind ATM. Perhaps we tend to categorise successful but aesthetically challenged cars as 'purposeful' rather than ugly?

#91 ensign14

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:52

I am trying to think of a winning car that was generally considered to be ugly, but nothing comes to mind ATM.

Coupe de l'Auto Peugeot?

Never liked the Ferrari 312T4 either. Looked as if the front quarter was designed by the kid on work experience and tacked onto an existing car. But it worked.

#92 DampMongoose

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 13:53

I am trying to think of a winning car that was generally considered to be ugly, but nothing comes to mind ATM. Perhaps we tend to categorise successful but aesthetically challenged cars as 'purposeful' rather than ugly?



What about the 'tea tray' March that Peterson gained several podiums with and claimed 2nd place in the WDC in 1971? Or the 'teapot' Ligier which qualifed on pole and had a few podiums also? Although both F1 cars which you probably weren't thinking of given the non-F1 thread... :well:

For a non-F1 car, the ugly DW12 won the Indy 500 last year?

Edited by DampMongoose, 15 May 2013 - 13:54.


#93 E.B.

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 14:09

I am trying to think of a winning car that was generally considered to be ugly


Gaston Chevrolet's 1920 Indy 500 winning mount is the ugliest car I have ever seen.



#94 D-Type

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 23:08

I am trying to think of a winning car that was generally considered to be ugly, but nothing comes to mind ATM. Perhaps we tend to categorise successful but aesthetically challenged cars as 'purposeful' rather than ugly?

Lotus 18: not particularly elegant - but effective!
Naserati Tipo 61: In period it was considered ugly with the high front wings and the 'square' rear wheel arches. But as one of the last front-engined sports cars we now view it with feelingsof 'nostalgia'