25 replies to this topic

[Broadway]

Seems like both Dorna and Bernie is trying to get more and more night races in. Next up seem to be Malaysia, where the experiment witha aftornoon race turned out to be a flop. Reason is simple - better broadcast times for the European audience. But what about the rest of the world? If MotoGP and F1 is intended mostly for European audience, maybe the races should be held in Europe? I almost went to Quatar to watch the MotoGP premiere and I think I would have been pretty pissed (and wet) if I had gone. I know it can rain at any time, at any place, but since the races seem to be aimed for us Europeans, it would make sense hold the races at tracks that will attract a live audience. In the long run, empty stands will kill the atmosphere and glamour pretty efficiently.

I do not mind them going outside Europe though, I just mind them going to places where no one is interested in what they bring. Except for some suspicious business people who have found a way of generate money from losses.

What speaks against night races is:
-Tracks has to be equipped with very expensive artificial lighting. So expensive that is not likely to be used more than once or twice per year.
-Races becomes more weather sensitive. You can not race in rain because the artficial lights will reflect in the water, and light up the falling drops and the spray so that it will quickly be zero visibility.
-In general, less pleasant for the live audience.

What speaks for night races:
-Fits better into European TV schedule

I am sure there is things both for and against that I have forgotten, or that I am not aware of. Feel free to add.

[Turn 1]

No!

One is a nice change, any more would be a joke!

[Atreiu]

No.
It's just a waste and futile effort.

[Crazy Ninja]

Yes if they can avoid the farce that was the motogp race. If they cant race in the dark and the rain at the same time then definitely no. Also, it shouldnt be limited to non-european races. They should run Monza at night it would be freaking awesome

[Lazy Prodigy]

I would like to see one a year. I think its a nice change up. MotoGP and F1 are the most advanced forms of racing in their fields and they cant figure out how to adjust to the rain then maybe shouldn't race at night, but these are the prime racing groups in the world Im sure they could find a way to work something out if they thought about it. Maybe they can have some anti glare stuff if it rains at night and they can implement in road cars. And yes I know these appeal to global audiences but they should plan ahead in case something comes up with being able to have time slots to adjust too, where they can race so the fans know what goes on, be it race the next day or some open weekend, or even nothing at all.

[Broadway]

I am surprised. So far the poll is almost 50-50. Seems like Bernie and Dorna has made a proper market analysis after all.

[Buckethead]

Max 1 night race in a season.

[D.M.N.]

I see the point with Singapore as a normal 14:00 start in Singapore is 07:00 in the UK, but Qatar? The night race there is nonsense, especially when a 14:00 start local time is only 12:00 in the UK, so seriously, I understand why they did it with Singapore, but Qatar = publicity stunt.

[Broadway]

Originally posted by Lazy Prodigy
I would like to see one a year. I think its a nice change up. MotoGP and F1 are the most advanced forms of racing in their fields and they cant figure out how to adjust to the rain then maybe shouldn't race at night, but these are the prime racing groups in the world Im sure they could find a way to work something out if they thought about it. Maybe they can have some anti glare stuff if it rains at night and they can implement in road cars. And yes I know these appeal to global audiences but they should plan ahead in case something comes up with being able to have time slots to adjust too, where they can race so the fans know what goes on, be it race the next day or some open weekend, or even nothing at all.

There is two separate problems - one is the glare from the standing water and the other one is the reflections in the spray and falling water. I think there is easier and cheaper ways to make experiments with rain visibility than in a F1 or MotoGP race.

[hunnylander]

No!

Singapore is more than enough, it suits to a night race quite well regarding scenery, though I liked the daylight pictures of the track more. But every other track, e.g. Sepang would look terribly as a night race. Also that MotoGP night race scenery is awfully ugly.

I HATE night races.

And I hate Bernie's twilight race idea too.

[Broadway]

Seems like there is scientific evidence that it rains more often during the night
http://wiki.answers....n_more_at_night

Q: Does it rain more at night?
A: Yes. This is because air is generally cooler at night, and cool air holds less moisture than warm air resulting in rainfall.

Q: Why does it rain more often at night than during the day?
A: The main reason would likely be that it takes the daytime heating to initailly produce the clouds and rainfall, which then persist into the night before ending. Obviously there are exceptions to this "rule".

This, in combination with the visibility problems must make the risk of being forced to cancel a race a lot bigger if it is run at night. I do not hold any of the sorces above as 100% reliable, but it fits into my general observations that rain often comes in evening or at night.

[Group B]

I quite like the spectacle, but steps need to be taken to avoid farces like yesterday.

[Lazy Prodigy]

Originally posted by Broadway

There is two separate problems - one is the glare from the standing water and the other one is the reflections in the spray and falling water. I think there is easier and cheaper ways to make experiments with rain visibility than in a F1 or MotoGP race.

people had KERS in F1 and it's not cheap.

[Broadway]

Originally posted by Lazy Prodigy
people had KERS in F1 and it's not cheap.

No. And it does not make much sense either. Wasting money on KERS is no reson to also waste money on anti-glare technique, useful only if you wear a helmet.

[rdebourbon]

Night races. No, no and no.

I'm waiting for the first *WET* night race to happen - If people thought IndyGate was bad.. lol we ain't seen nothing yet... F1 cars were not designed to race in such conditions period. IMHO its simply a new way for Bernie to hide the fact that all the new "stellar" GPs have poor trackside attendance after the inaugural GP... if its pitch black off-track, no need to make sure cameras dont pan over empty grandstands...

-EDIT-
Never mind that digital cameras etc will likely be less than stellar from the grandstands, so Bernie has less right management issues to worry about on the likes of Youtube etc.. its all about the money people.. LOL

[kar]

One maybe two a season, MAXIMUM.

[stevvy1986]

No, i'm quite happy watching races at silly o'clock in the morning if need be thanks,if bernie is that bothered abouteuropean audiences, hold more races in europe, or at least go to countries where people give a damn and will turn up (japan is a great example of a place to hold a race even if its an early morning race UK time, because at least the grandstands are full at good tracks, rather than less than half full at boring soulless tracks)

[Clatter]

I say no. IMHO it adds nothing to spectacle and makes a farce of the FIA's claims to be green.

[JPW]

Don't mind a couple of night races if that avoids getting up at silly o'clock but not more than 2 or 3 night races.

Singapore was quite good imo.

[kar]

Originally posted by Clatter
I say no. IMHO it adds nothing to spectacle and makes a farce of the FIA's claims to be green.

The commercial rights holder dictates when races are though, so it's hardly the FIA's fault. If it's safe, then they can't really prevent Bernie having races whenever he wants.

Unfortunately.

[Cenotaph]

I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with night races. I'm OK if we have one every once in a while, I don't think they are necessary, but I don't mind them at all either, their interesting infact.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by kar


The commercial rights holder dictates when races are though, so it's hardly the FIA's fault. If it's safe, then they can't really prevent Bernie having races whenever he wants.

Unfortunately.

I agree, but do not for one minute believe these decisions are done unilaterally.

[Turbo4]

As an Australian, i'm totally against night races. It was bad enough at 5pm this year.

We were forced to spend an additional night in a Melbourne hotel as there were no flights out to my destination after 7pm, so it's rather costly too. If it goes later next year, i'll be voting with my wallet and not going down to the GP.

[Decode]

Originally posted by kar


The commercial rights holder dictates when races are though, so it's hardly the FIA's fault. If it's safe, then they can't really prevent Bernie having races whenever he wants.

Unfortunately.

But its not safe. At Australia the drivers were complaining they couldnt see where they were going. Imagine a massive accident happening because of poor lighting. Unfortunately Max is in bernies back pocket so the sport has no protection.

[Bi-Polar Bear]

If MotoGP and F1 is intended mostly for European audience, maybe the races should be held in Europe?



Well, maybe if the taxpayers of European countries were willing to pony up millions upon millions of dollars to build dull, unispired tracks and line the pockets of one of the greediest men to ever bestride the earth, such a thing would be possible.

Your problem, sir, is that you still see F1 as a SPORT! Silly boy. F1 is a giant, intercontinental advertising medium designed to extract maximum cash from those stupid enough to fall for the ploy. Since some countries have virtually limitless supplies of ready cash to throw at Bernie, THAT is where the racing will be, until such time as someone, somewhere, drags the series back to its roots, which is about racing and not marketing.

One COULD draw and analogy between Bernie's capitalistic caper and that of AIG with its now infamous "credit default swaps." Bernie has created out of thin air a new marketing strategy that has driven his profits into the stratosphere. What incentive does he have to stop the process? None, is the correct answer. And so, we will continue to be treated to a show that is a chimera of racing until something happens to disrupt the treadmill he has constructed that transports cubic dollars to the coffers of Bernie Ecclestone Enterprises.

Will that day ever come?

I don't know. But if it ever does, I will stand up and cheer. F1 as presently constituted bears no more relationship to motor racing than Sister Teresa does to Madonna.

And to get to the point {finally}, night racing is merely another cog in the giant money making machine. It is as stupid as holding the America's Cup competition at night. Or the Oscar awards at noontime. Sure, you COULD do it. But WHY?

[Snap Matt]

Singapore was stunning to see on television. Last year's MotoGP in Qatar didn't really gain anything for being at night. Yesterday the sparks flying from a couple of the riders were very spectaular, but you have to balance that against the whole event nearly not happening. I don't think there should be more than one, possibly two night races in any category. I would also avoid twilight races... events should be one thing or the other... it would be no use giving a convenient start time for European viewers if the result was poor light stopping the race early.

Aren't the organisers of the Singapore GP fairly confident that driver would not be blinded by reflected light in the rain, unlike the situation in Qatar? Presumably the lighting systems are fairly different given the nature of the two tracks not being alike.