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Commercial vehicle nostalgia


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#801 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 00:44

The diffs and in some cases widened wheels from those Morris Commercials were in the past  common fare in Speedway sedans and stockrods as well. Strong,,, but HEAVY!



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#802 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 23:52

Nobody has responded to my question about engine capacity and versatility yet...

If I can ask again, does anyone know the capacity of the 4-cyl post-war engine and if it was used in other vehicles?

#803 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:54

I finally got the details on the Morris Commercial engine...

2050cc (125cu.in)
Bore 80mm (3.1496in)
Stroke 102 mm (4.0157)
42 BHP at 3250rpm.
The NPFC/5 engine developed 91 lb.ft torque at 1500 rpm.
The pre war NEB engine with the same bore and stroke was 44 BHP

Well, it is more horsepower than an early VW Kombi had.

#804 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:49

Negated by the weight.

I suspect that bore and stroke has been metricised,, a very Pommy engine. Probably 3 1/8 x 4"

I have seen similar on some sites re Chevs, 102mm is not the 4" they actually are.

 Most English and American engines were made in imperial measurments. As would be commonsense for the period.

Conversions  to metric sometimes are lost. 

With wheels,, 4" is usually called that, 4 1/4 is called 108 but is actually 107 .8 or so. 4.5" is called 114.3 and then we have 120,, and 120.65 which is 4.75.

A lot of home and engineering sizes too are lost in translation.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 25 July 2019 - 00:19.


#805 Dipster

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 13:34

I always found that older long stroke engines were often relying on torque rather than horse power, not unlike old US V8s did.

 

102mm is surely a "rounded up" sum of 25.4 mm (the recognised and commonly accepted dead accurate number of mm to one inch) multiplied by 4 inches. Instead of the accurate 101.6 they give 102. No idea why they would though..... 



#806 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 14:57

I still haven't learned if the engine had other uses than in these trucks...

Were they, for instance, used in Nuffield tractors?

#807 Myhinpaa

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 22:14

TVO and petrol engines in the Nuffield tractor were sidevalve and the prototype used the EHB engine. (1931ish origin)

Production version engines had the codes ETA (3.77 litre, 33-36 bhp.) and was used until the petrol engine version was discontinued in 1957.

BMC own diesel engine (OEA2) came as the tractor version in 1954 and had a 3.4 litre capacity and 45 bhp.



#808 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 00:30

I always found that older long stroke engines were often relying on torque rather than horse power, not unlike old US V8s did.

 

102mm is surely a "rounded up" sum of 25.4 mm (the recognised and commonly accepted dead accurate number of mm to one inch) multiplied by 4 inches. Instead of the accurate 101.6 they give 102. No idea why they would though..... 

Most older engines were torquey. Small bore and long stroke complete with  huge flywheel weight. Which by the 50s was more changed to big bore shorter stroke that revved harder. Which required far more valve space.

Though HP is measured several different ways over the decades.

English vehicles were more 'taxable' power, American engines were measured without any accesories  until recent time and they are now measured with all ancillaries. 



#809 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 23:54

I found this on Google Earth's Street View...
 
0515olary-SAkarrier.jpg
 
It's at a pretty remote place, a very small village named Olary on the Barrier Highway about 120kms West of Broken Hill and in South Australia.
 
I believe this is a Karrier truck from the late forties or early fifties, others here might know better. The interesting thing is that it's parked on the road and has a load and a number plate, this indicates that it was still in use just over five years ago and probably still is today.



#810 Myhinpaa

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 00:17

That's a good find, almost have a Burt Munro style to it with the bike on the back. (But I know he was in Invercargill, South Island NZ)

 

But it might be a '52/'53 Morris Commercial LC4 25 cwt?

 

https://upload.wikim...3989320020).jpg



#811 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 04:02

You could well be right, there...

 

The grille is of the Morris Commercial, though I don't recall every having seen one just like that.



#812 Dipster

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 08:12

I think Myhinpaa is right. It is a Morris. They were sold old trucks. A similar truck featured regularly in a British TV show, Heartbeat. You can probably find it on You Tube. I think a good few mechanical components were carried over to later BMC commercials for a good few years too.



#813 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 09:13

I looked at some of my own photos afterwards...

 

This is the model with the Austin engine, I have pics of one or two of them, but not with what appears to be a chromed grille. They're painted. Also the shaping of the sides of the bonnet and the doors doesn't show up well on the GE pic.

 

I should have known by the wheels, anyway.



#814 Dipster

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 11:17

I looked at some of my own photos afterwards...

 

This is the model with the Austin engine, I have pics of one or two of them, but not with what appears to be a chromed grille. They're painted. Also the shaping of the sides of the bonnet and the doors doesn't show up well on the GE pic.

 

I should have known by the wheels, anyway.

I think the grille and bumper may have had slap of silver paint. Outback bling? 



#815 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 11:42

I don't know about 'outback'...

 

They might have, if they were very patient, driven it up from Adelaide.



#816 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 23:54

I found this on Google Earth's Street View...
 
0515olary-SAkarrier.jpg
 
It's at a pretty remote place, a very small village named Olary on the Barrier Highway about 120kms West of Broken Hill and in South Australia.
 
I believe this is a Karrier truck from the late forties or early fifties, others here might know better. The interesting thing is that it's parked on the road and has a load and a number plate, this indicates that it was still in use just over five years ago and probably still is today.

Morris LC3 I feel.

Those diffs ended up in speedway sedans and rods. HEAVY but strong and around 5.6 ratio from memory.



#817 Dipster

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 08:34

Taking another look I am wondering about the 'bike loaded on the back. What is it? It appears to have no engine, but a blanking plate of some form. Any ideas?



#818 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 11:45

Have a closer look for yourself...

 

-32.281573027316895, 140.32639700717107

 

Go to Street View, move around, get different angles.



#819 Geoff E

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 12:56

Googling

 

"morris commercial" olary

 

will find a few hi res images.  E.g. https://www.alamy.co...e336371703.html



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#820 Doug Nye

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 13:19

'Commercial Vehicle Nostalgia'? - What?  Like nostalgia for the days when one could take a truck through Dover and into France within two hours...?  I do recall doing that a few times.

 

DCN



#821 Myhinpaa

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 19:45

Morris LC3 I feel.

Those diffs ended up in speedway sedans and rods. HEAVY but strong and around 5.6 ratio from memory.

 

Didn't the LC3 have free standing headlamps and 20" wheels?



#822 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 22 December 2020 - 22:41

Didn't the LC3 have free standing headlamps and 20" wheels?

Possibly depending on the model with headlights. But were all on 16s. The bigger ones possibly had bigger wheels and possibly different mechanicals as well.

I am surprised that they sold any numbers, at least here in Oz as the American/Canadian light trucks had far more power and drove better as well.

I once rode in an LC3. A lot of noise to go very slow.  Fargoes, Chevs, baby Internationals, F trucks were all far better. Quieter and drove ok,, at least for the period.

And probably had double the top speed!

And around a 6.5 diff ratio does not hepl either!.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 14 January 2022 - 03:51.


#823 Dipster

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 13:53

Have a closer look for yourself...

 

-32.281573027316895, 140.32639700717107

 

Go to Street View, move around, get different angles.

Thanks Ray. But these coordinates took me to a place in the sea off the coast near Tokyo, Japan!  Did I do something wrong? Probably.........



#824 Myhinpaa

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 14:46

Thanks Ray. But these coordinates took me to a place in the sea off the coast near Tokyo, Japan!  Did I do something wrong? Probably.........

 

Here's a direct link.



#825 E1pix

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 17:40

Well, it is more horsepower than an early VW Kombi had.

As is a proper lawnmower. :-)

#826 Dipster

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 19:12

Here's a direct link.

 

 

Thank you Myhinpaa,  I didn't have my 12 year old granddaughter here to help me. 



#827 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 20:27

Originally posted by Dipster
Thanks Ray. But these coordinates took me to a place in the sea off the coast near Tokyo, Japan!  Did I do something wrong? Probably...


There's a minus symbol at the beginning, did you get that?

#828 Dipster

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 17:19

There's a minus symbol at the beginning, did you get that?

Ray,

 

Yes I did, thanks. But I foolishly (being an ignoramus) took it for a stray colon......   I did not (still don't!) know its significance. Where's my granddaughter when I need her?!



#829 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 March 2021 - 01:46

At the risk of being told that 'Aussie rust' isn't required here, I think these two are worth looking at:
 
19-19-01-maudslaysohc6.jpg
Maudslay. Very poor example, I know, but it is what it is. A single overhead camshaft is a unique feature of these trucks, I feel, and they had them from about 1904.
 
Can anyone estimate, perhaps, what age this might be? Most likely pre-1930s, the tyres tell me.
 
19-19-02-caldwell-vale.jpg
Definitely Aussie. The Caldwell-Vale trucks were built not far from where I came into being, Auburn in Sydney's Western Suburbs. Four wheel drive and four wheel steering were features of some of these vehicles, which went out of production about 1913.
 
Both of these makers built cars and I would think the Caldwell-Vale cars would have been the first ever 4WD cars, while the Maudslay cars I read had the first SOHC 6-cylinder engines put into production. They were also at the top of the price range.
 
Both of these are in the National Road Transport Museum at Alice Springs, not a place you can just drop into any old time, I'm going through my photos from that trip and came across them and did some Googling.



#830 arttidesco

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Posted 17 March 2021 - 07:51

'Both of these makers built cars and I would think the Caldwell-Vale cars would have been the first ever 4WD cars, while the Maudslay cars I read had the first SOHC 6-cylinder engines put into production. They were also at the top of the price range.'

 

Lovely finds Ray, IIRC Spyker built a 60hp 4WD car circa 1903 which I believe predates the foundation of Caldwell-Vale by a couple of years  :wave:

 
 



#831 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 March 2021 - 09:08

You get to be the lucky man, then...

 

You can ride as passenger in the Caldwell-Vale.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hang on tight!



#832 arttidesco

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Posted 17 March 2021 - 12:41

In a couple of years when I retire I plan to attempt to drive my MX5 Madge down the Trans Siberian Highway and then put her on a boat for a drive around Oz, when I get to the National Road Transport Museum at Alice Springs I'll tell them you sent me  :wave: 



#833 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 22:25

And still others play with the older relics...

 

In the yard of a Gold Coast tow-truck base:

 

0122commerlights.jpg

 

I'm sure Lee will have something to say about those exhaust stacks, even if it's just a comment about the amount of chromium being wasted thereon.



#834 Bloggsworth

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 23:11

And still others play with the older relics...

 

In the yard of a Gold Coast tow-truck base:

 

0122commerlights.jpg

 

I'm sure Lee will have something to say about those exhaust stacks, even if it's just a comment about the amount of chromium being wasted thereon.

Given the state of the cab, good quality chrome on the stacks!



#835 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 23:29

It's really just an attention-getter...

 

The headlights, with their modern multi-function (halo lights etc) inserts come on periodically in their various forms, the larger amber lights flash all night. There's chrome on the rims and the fake intakes and the sunvisor as well.



#836 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 14 January 2022 - 04:05

Given the state of the cab, good quality chrome on the stacks!

A lot of fresh chrome for such a tatty abandoned looking truck.

A truck I personally hate, my father nearly killed himself in one several times,,,, run out of brakes, run out of go mid major intersection, and with dreaded underbody hoist fell over at least 3 times. Once severely.  From memory that killed it. It was an 8 ton tipper.