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Which team will be next (or last) to fit their car with a DDD package?


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#1 glorius&victorius

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:09

I'd say Mclaren will be the next team to fit their cars with a DDD package.

Force India will be the last? This is bad news for them, having to spend all resources to fit their car with the DDD package.

STR will get its package a few weeks after Red Bull...

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#2 JForce

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:24

I think what will happen now is that the likes of McLaren and Ferrari will fit DDD's that aren't fully integrated with their entire car, like the Williams/Toyota/Brawn ones....and as a result, will come under scrutiny and perhaps protest due to their interpretation of the diffuser rules....

#3 Risil

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:24

Fit an F1 car with a DD package? I had no idea Milka Duno was being looked at by F1...

#4 tahadar

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:26

i think you'll find that Force India is one of the teams that will easily be able to fit the double diffuser package

#5 whatto999

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:27

DDD. Like it's a packet you put onboard.

Whoever brings DDD implementation first isn't so important - it's important who makes most out of implementation.

#6 Lopek

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:28

RBR and STR will be among the last, if the do it at all - they have suspension in the way.

#7 Owen

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:29

Originally posted by tahadar
i think you'll find that Force India is one of the teams that will easily be able to fit the double diffuser package


Yep, McLaren and Force India appear ready to go with the new diffusers.

#8 Owen

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:31

Although I still expect Brawn to be at the front, it will be interesting to watch qualifying now!

#9 Francesc

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:34

Originally posted by glorius&victorius

Force India will be the last? This is bad news for them, having to spend all resources to fit their car with the DDD package.


Just the opposite mate

STR will be the last one to fit it

#10 One

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:47

Mclaren had almost their DD installed on ther car, was not it? I assume that the Mclaren wil lremove their cap and they"ll almost have it done in China.

#11 sanjiro

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:48

Originally posted by Lopek
RBR and STR will be among the last, if the do it at all - they have suspension in the way.


You are correct, assuming AN tries to design a DD like the BF1.
But this rule has oppend the posibility of all maner of underbody ground effects, using the new defenition of a "hole"

Expect a whole range of new ideas to come out of the teams as they seek to make the most of this ruling.

#12 Massa_f1

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:52

I read on f1-live Reanult have theres ready for china.

#13 Owen

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:55

Originally posted by Massa_f1
I read on f1-live Reanult have theres ready for china.

:up: Yeh, they said as much at the appeal hearing.

#14 EthanM

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:58

Aren't McLaren and Renault supposedly ready to race theirs in China
Ferrari probably in Spain along with BMW.

TBH I think most except the 2 that have their DDDs ready would realistically target Spain for a launch.

#15 bystander31

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 11:59

Next: Renault, McLaren and Force India

Last: Ferrari and Toro Rosso

#16 BrawnsBrain

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 12:05

Of more interest to me is which will be the next team to make a complete mess of redesigning their car!

With zero testing, how are they going to take such a fundamental design change to a race and get it right first time? It will be a busy Friday.

#17 bankoq

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 12:07

McLaren for sure.

Then Renault, Ferrari, BMW and Red Bull as the last team to introduce DDD.

#18 Buttoneer

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 12:07

McLaren will have the first optimised version. I have no doubt that they have been preparing one for some months.

I think they didn't protest because of the engine supply and also because they saw it when it appeared, facepalmed, and realised they had missed a trick. They also have 'spies' in the camp because of various seconded staff members who will have been assured of the legality and who will have seen the rear end of the car when mating the engine to gearbox.

#19 Lontano

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 12:53

didn't ferrari also have concerns of having to modify the suspension layout to fit a new difusser?

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#20 TickTickBooom

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 13:06

I can't wait to see how these plug'n'play diffusers work out. :lol:

#21 metz

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 17:32

Mac and Reno first. (Sepang)
Ferrari last. (Turkey)

#22 lettuce

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 17:35

Originally posted by metz
Mac and Reno first. (Sepang)


they'll need a time machine first :p

#23 metz

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 17:37

They have one....;)

#24 metz

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 17:44

Originally posted by metz
They have one....;)

Seriously. AMuS reports that McLaren and Renault will be presenting their early DD solution this Sunday at Sepang.

#25 Mackey

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 18:35

Originally posted by metz

Seriously. AMuS reports that McLaren and Renault will be presenting their early DD solution this Sunday at Sepang.


I think you mean Shanghai, Sepang was two weeks ago ;)

#26 metz

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 19:24

Originally posted by Mackey


I think you mean Shanghai, Sepang was two weeks ago ;)

I just checked, They clearly say Sepang.
I therefore assumed they are testing or doing some kind of demo there.

Maybe someone can help me with the translation of this report dated today:

"Die Frage für die nächsten Wochen lautet somit: Wer baut die beste Kopie? McLaren-Mercedes und Renault wollen schon am Sonntag in Sepang einen neuen Diffusor präsentieren, der allerdings noch nicht die endgültige Lösung darstellt. Zum Europa-Auftakt in vier Wochen wollen auch BMW-Sauber und Force India mit neuen Teilen kommen. Komplizierter wird es bei Ferrari und Red Bull. Hier dauert es nach eigener Aussage jeweils bis zum siebten WM-Lauf in der Türkei (7.6.), bis das komplizierte Heck umgerüstet ist."


edit: :blush: Unless, of course, they made a mistake.

#27 TickTickBooom

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 19:45

Originally posted by metz
"Die Frage für die nächsten Wochen lautet somit: Wer baut die beste Kopie? McLaren-Mercedes und Renault wollen schon am Sonntag in Sepang einen neuen Diffusor präsentieren, der allerdings noch nicht die endgültige Lösung darstellt. Zum Europa-Auftakt in vier Wochen wollen auch BMW-Sauber und Force India mit neuen Teilen kommen. Komplizierter wird es bei Ferrari und Red Bull. Hier dauert es nach eigener Aussage jeweils bis zum siebten WM-Lauf in der Türkei (7.6.), bis das komplizierte Heck umgerüstet ist."

It doesn't say anything about Sepang the place, the word Sepang means 'separate':

"The question for the next race is who will build the best copy? McLaren Mercedes and Renault will already have a new diffuser, although admittedly not the final version. In Europe in four weeks BMW-Sauber and Force India expect to run their version. There is confusion about Ferrari and Red Bull, they admit theirs may not be ready until Turkey."

#28 noikeee

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 21:36

The big question is how much time per lap will these half-assed diffusors be able to give, to the teams that fit them in.

#29 Dark Monkey

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:26

And how much they'll improve grip and tyre wear and ballast distribution and KERS effectivity and... :drunk:

The thing may be a whole different beast.

#30 anthony says

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:49

People say Renault should be ready to roll with a double-decker as they have already proposed it to the FIA. But according to their testimony to the ICA, they don't understand why if their design was assessed by the FIA as being illegal, the Brawn, Williams and Toyota designs could possibly have been ruled legal.

If they really don't understand this, how can they know whether the DD they are working on is legal?

But if they do understand it, they must have been lying to the ICA. And we all know what can happen to liars, don't we?

#31 wonk123

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 23:23

Originally posted by sanjiro


You are correct, assuming AN tries to design a DD like the BF1.
But this rule has oppend the posibility of all maner of underbody ground effects, using the new defenition of a "hole"

Expect a whole range of new ideas to come out of the teams as they seek to make the most of this ruling.


Exactly what I was thinking.

I half expect Newey (who seems more than a little peeved) to come back with some radical design based on this new interpretation. possibly multiple layers and he may even redsign the suspension to mount a long way forward to give even greater scope.

What will happen if RBR turn up with something at Monaco that this loophole has allowed and lap the entire field?

#32 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:40

Originally posted by anthony says

But if they do understand it, they must have been lying to the ICA. And we all know what can happen to liars, don't we?

A slap on the wrist? Unless you're a McLiar in which case it's a crime against humanity and freedom and the FIA goes to DEFCON 1.

#33 Rambazamba

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 10:17

AMuS says Renault will have a first version of the DD in Shanghai but only for Alonsos car. McLaren won´t come up with a DD but with an evolution of the Diffusor that has been used so far.

#34 Verbal

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 10:34

Originally posted by metz
"Die Frage für die nächsten Wochen lautet somit: Wer baut die beste Kopie? McLaren-Mercedes und Renault wollen schon am Sonntag in Sepang einen neuen Diffusor präsentieren, der allerdings noch nicht die endgültige Lösung darstellt. Zum Europa-Auftakt in vier Wochen wollen auch BMW-Sauber und Force India mit neuen Teilen kommen. Komplizierter wird es bei Ferrari und Red Bull. Hier dauert es nach eigener Aussage jeweils bis zum siebten WM-Lauf in der Türkei (7.6.), bis das komplizierte Heck umgerüstet ist."

So the question for the next weeks is: Who will make the best copy? McLaren-Mercedes and Renault are going to present a new diffusor already in Sepang on Sunday, although it won't be the final version. At the start of the european season in four weeks also BMW-Sauber and Force India want to present new parts. The situation at Ferrari and Red Bull is more complicated. According to them, redesigning the complete rear will take until the 7th race in Turkey (June 7th).

#35 f1rules

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 11:10

f1total is quoting an interview from AS with P symonds saying they will have a temp version ready for the first european race, no new diffuser for shanghai

#36 f1rules

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 12:34

McLaren also has a new diffuser in China, but it is merely a development of its conventional design. "There has not been enough time for a double-decker diffuser," said Team Principal Martin Whitmarsh. He said he is hoping an early double-diffuser for the MP4-24 will be ready for Bahrain next weekend.

BMW's double-diffuser won't be ready until Barcelona next month. "There we will have a new aero package, and I hope the diffuser," said Nick Heidfeld.

#37 metz

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 12:39

Originally posted by Verbal

So the question for the next weeks is: Who will make the best copy? McLaren-Mercedes and Renault are going to present a new diffusor already in Sepang on Sunday, although it won't be the final version. At the start of the european season in four weeks also BMW-Sauber and Force India want to present new parts. The situation at Ferrari and Red Bull is more complicated. According to them, redesigning the complete rear will take until the 7th race in Turkey (June 7th).

Thanks Verbal. :wave:
I think they made a mistake, meaning China, not Sepang.