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Ron Dennis to announce he's quitting McLaren altogether?


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#1 BrawnsBrain

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 19:50

An announcement is to be made by Ron Dennis tomorrow (Thurs 16th April) apparently.

The announcement will be regarding McLaren's future road cars.

It looks like an ideal time for Dennis to step down completely and take the heat off Whitmarsh at a crucial time.

So with Dennis gone from the F1 operation altogether, to play with his road cars, will you miss him?

And would you buy a used car from this man?

I wouldn't.

:lol:

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#2 TickTickBooom

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 19:53

That was my first thought when I saw the story. Maybe to distance himself from the spanking the team are going to get from the FIA.

#3 cdaara

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 19:54

It's a bit of a coincidence with all the rumours going around, isn't it.

#4 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 19:55

Ryan gone, Dennis gone, no-one left at McLaren that did anything wrong? Thats a defence that makes sense.

#5 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 19:57

Also remember the FIA cant force someone to testify at a hearing, though they could pretty much if it were and employee or say director of one of the teams/companies that entered one of the FIA series.

#6 One

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 20:01

Ryan left Maclaren formula ONe program, which does not necessarily mean that he left Mclaren group, I may assume.

No reason why Ron cannot go th way he choose to now.

#7 stevvy1986

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 20:03

Originally posted by One
Ryan left Maclaren formula ONe program, which does not necessarily mean that he left Mclaren group, I may assume.

No reason why Ron cannot go th way he choose to now.


Ryan apparently now has absolutely no connections to any part of the McLaren group (sure i read that somewhere, Whitmarsh may have said it)

#8 cdaara

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 20:03

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Also remember the FIA cant force someone to testify at a hearing, though they could pretty much if it were and employee or say director of one of the teams/companies that entered one of the FIA series.



Oooh, that's a tricky one. If Ron does step down from all activities with the racing side of McLaren, could he actually be called up to answer to the WMSC? That would be like the CEO of Toyota being dragged over from Japan to answer for something that the F1 team did, despite him having no real involvement in the team.

#9 BrawnsBrain

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 20:33

In real life, if a witness avoids court isn't that obstruction of justice?

So why, if the FIA calls them up, would Dennis and Ryan be able to snub the court?

I can imagine the meeting of minds at McLaren, behind this announcement. Ron: "Oh what you go do that for!?" Whitmarsh, scratching head: "I dunno!". Ron: "Well, I am gonna have to damn well sort it out then!". Whitmarsh: "Oh crumbs!". Dennis: "I'll go and work on the car, you keep your head low for a while, for God's sake!"

#10 Anomnader

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 20:39

Originally posted by BrawnsBrain
[B]In real life, if a witness avoids court isn't that obstruction of justice?
]

Becauses its not a real court

Because in a real court, the judge, jury, executioner isn't all the same person

Because in a real court the judge is sacked if he's found to be doing sex shows

Because in a real court the judge can't say he's there to represent just one of the sides

Because in a real court, it doesn't get away with lying

#11 Montoya1

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 20:51

I have thought for a long time that these things should be sorted out in a real court if we must go that route, not one of MM's mockery courts.

#12 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 20:52

Originally posted by BrawnsBrain
In real life, if a witness avoids court isn't that obstruction of justice?

So why, if the FIA calls them up, would Dennis and Ryan be able to snub the court?

I can imagine the meeting of minds at McLaren, behind this announcement. Ron: "Oh what you go do that for!?" Whitmarsh, scratching head: "I dunno!". Ron: "Well, I am gonna have to damn well sort it out then!". Whitmarsh: "Oh crumbs!". Dennis: "I'll go and work on the car, you keep your head low for a while, for God's sake!"


Read the ruling of the FIA regarding Stepney and Coughlan, they said they had no jurisdiction over them.

As I understand it the WMSC cannot force someone to testify, though I do expect that when a team enters an FIA event it agrees to bide by its rulings, governances, investigations, hearings etc so should they invite McLaren to give evidence, McLaren are pretty much obliged to, similarly McLaren would be expected to get their employees to give testimony if requested, as for anyone outside a team, the FIA could ask but thats it.

#13 potmotr

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 21:53

The fact that Ron Dennis can be run out of his own company, which he made great, is sickening.

#14 Clatter

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 21:57

Originally posted by potmotr
The fact that Ron Dennis can be run out of his own company, which he made great, is sickening.


He wouldnt be the first to have this happen to him. It's the risk you take when you start selling shares in your company and no longer have the majority.

#15 werks prototype

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 21:59

I think Dennis implyed this move months ago? What's the big deal? I admit the timing is canny in terms of diverting the media onto something positive, ie expanding the McLaren empire.

Better to stick to the bigger picture, we all know what's gonna happen post april 29th, but that will still be overshadowed in the longterm.

Life goes on, Dennis switches his focus.

#16 ensign14

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:00

Originally posted by Montoya1
I have thought for a long time that these things should be sorted out in a real court if we must go that route, not one of MM's mockery courts.

Which country's? You'd have to pick one, otherwise you'd end up with different verdicts for the same facts. Obvious choice is England (best and most unbiased judges, loser pays costs) but the English court rules require full disclosure, which is expensive. And even in England, which has a very fast court system compared to most of Europe, you'd need a year to get to trial and another year for the appeal.

#17 FLB

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:06

Originally posted by potmotr
The fact that Ron Dennis can be run out of his own company, which he made great, is sickening.

Don't forget that Dennis ran Teddy Mayer out of McLaren in late 1980, at Marlboro's behest. Mayer was one of the original employees of Bruce McLaren when the team was born.

#18 Anomnader

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:10

Originally posted by FLB
Don't forget that Dennis ran Teddy Mayer out of McLaren


I've never heard that, have you got any more information on it?

Cheers

#19 Rogue

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:16

Food for thought - what if tomorrow's announcement is in fact Witmarsh being run out as another sacrificial lamb with Dennis taking over the F1 operation again? It may be that the shareholders and sponsors are demanding a bigger scalp than Ryan's. Given that Dennis' involvement in McLaren's Australia transgression is distant in appearance, they may be pushing back into the team principle position to take the heat off the team?

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#20 werks prototype

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:16

What is the relevance of Ron Dennis stepping down in exchange for a lenient punishment from the FIA? Is he really that important? Is it legal for what amounts to a personal grudge being used to effect the outcome of an FIA inquiry? How come Dennis is a currency at all in this?

Could it be some kind of sting by McLaren, having recorded whoever put the proposal forward?

I dont know, I just don't get the importance of taking Dennis out. Surely his presence on the pit wall has been largely symbolic anyway for the past few seasons.

Dennis will never leave McLaren entirely and they need to strenghthen in different areas anyway, in a similar manner to Wiliams selling a variation of the flywheel tech. So again even his 'stepping down' 'pulling out completely' would only be a covert and symbolic gesture.

McLaren seem to be playing a game of chess here, right from Dave Ryans departure.

#21 potmotr

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:20

Originally posted by FLB
Don't forget that Dennis ran Teddy Mayer out of McLaren in late 1980, at Marlboro's behest. Mayer was one of the original employees of Bruce McLaren when the team was born.


Yes, but Mayer had led the team nowhere.

Ron's takeover took the team to a new level and, IMO, set the standard for professionalism and presentation that all teams now follow.

This wasn't an ego trip, it was so his sponsors (he coined the phrase Corporate Partner) could have a better experience and return for their buck.

And with these high standards came great success.

Say what you like about Ron Dennis's personality or our perception of it, the fact he is being ran out of his own company is totally fu@king obscene.

#22 David M. Kane

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:27

Isn't this what Max wanted all along?

#23 potmotr

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:30

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Isn't this what Max wanted all along?


Exactly. It is so wrong. Like throwing Enzo Ferrari out of the sport because he'd fallen out with Mosley.

#24 David Ricardo

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:36

I think it´s in Mclaren´s best interest. Having a team capable of building arguably the best car of the grid and ruining it all with bad management is a shame.

#25 potmotr

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 22:40

Originally posted by David Ricardo
I think it´s in Mclaren´s best interest. Having a team capable of building arguably the best car of the grid and ruining it all with bad management is a shame.


Yeah, but it is Ron's business. He built it up to what it is, with the culture of perfection it currently has.

Yes, we could argue about ethical decisions relating to stewards hearings in Melbourne, but that is a yellow card offence. Instead Ron faces losing his club. That is totally f*cked.

#26 kosmos

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:11

Do we know the time of the press conference or whatever?.

#27 UreaBorealis

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:15

http://www.timesonli...icle6101379.ece

The interesting bit:

Dennis’s decision to step back is also likely to be a consequence of pressure exerted by Anthony Hamilton, the world champion’s father and manager, who does not get on with Dennis. He is believed to have been furious with what he saw as the team selling his son’s reputation to try to gain a single championship point. Relations between the two are said to have reached a point at which Hamilton Sr, and to a lesser extent his son, did not want to continue with McLaren while Dennis was in charge.


Haven't been following the McLaren discussion lately enough to say anything on the credibility of that.

#28 MWM

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:16

Is it to announce the commissioning of a 200 foot high statue of himself by Antony Gormley to be placed outside his factory perhaps?

Or to announce he will be having a bare-knuckle fight with Whitmarsh after "Liegate"?

He certainly won't be quitting McLaren, and I'm guessing it will just be to re-hash old news that he's stepping back from the F1 team. Hopefully itn will be something more exciting, we shall just have to see.



Originally posted by UreaBorealis
http://www.timesonli...icle6101379.ece

The interesting bit:

"Dennis’s decision to step back is also likely to be a consequence of pressure exerted by Anthony Hamilton, the world champion’s father and manager, who does not get on with Dennis. He is believed to have been furious with what he saw as the team selling his son’s reputation to try to gain a single championship point. Relations between the two are said to have reached a point at which Hamilton Sr, and to a lesser extent his son, did not want to continue with McLaren while Dennis was in charge."

Haven't been following the McLaren discussion lately enough to say anything on the credibility of that.

Absurd. RD is not about to be told what he can and cannot do by one of his driver's dads!

#29 Oblivion

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:19

As far as I know Dennis has already left all the positions in the Racin Team. So from there he's gonna retire? From the position of the Head of McLaren Group? But FIA has nothing to do with the whole group - it's a business structure not a racing team.

#30 Suzy

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:20

Doesn't anybody else think it's alarming that Anthony Hamilton has managed, with the aid of MM, to force Ron Dennis out of McLaren? http://www.timesonli...icle6101379.ece There's something rancid at McLaren... and it has the initials AH!

[Edit: I see quite a few others have beaten me to it]

#31 hunnylander

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:21

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Ryan gone, Dennis gone, no-one left at McLaren that did anything wrong? Thats a defence that makes sense.


What are you talking about with the name McLaren? The McLaren Group or the F1 team?

Dennis has left McLaren Racing/Vodafone McLaren Mercedes/the F1 team already, on 2009 March 1st. So? Your're talking BS, he's left the team well before any trouble.

The announcement might be related to this:
http://www.motorauth...new-models.html

#32 stevewf1

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:26

He's hinted at this for awhile, if I recall and April 16 comes before April 29... Maybe Ron Dennis is just tired of it all?

#33 undersquare

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:36

Originally posted by Suzy
Doesn't anybody else think it's alarming that Anthony Hamilton has managed, with the aid of MM, to force Ron Dennis out of McLaren? http://www.timesonli...icle6101379.ece There's something rancid at McLaren... and it has the initials AH!

[Edit: I see quite a few others have beaten me to it]


Well the last time it was rumoured that Anthony and Ron didn't get on they flatly denied it. I would wait for confirmation before believing it.

I'm sure Anthony would have been furious at what happened, but ATM no reason to think he's still furious with Ron. With two characters like that there's no way to guess or estimate how they get on, they could be violent enemies or best mates. They are quite similar in many ways.

#34 Youichi

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:36

Maybe he's going to quit the McLaren group.....and run for FIA president :clap:

#35 primer

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:43

Ron can only 'quit' Mclaren in the most superficial sense since he still has a shareholding in the F1 team.

On the other hand, he might fire Whitmarsh for being a liar, acknowledge that getting into road car business does not make any sense and announce his return to the pitlane to head Mclaren. :clap:

#36 Man of the race

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:45

At McLaren there are and have been for a long time too many interest groups, who do not work particularly well together. Hamilton family (still there). Team Alonso (gone). Soldier JPM (gone). Ron (gone). Whitmarsh (still there). Mercedes and Haug (still there). Kovalainen (I didn't even notice him first. There but unsupported, because he is silent). Kimi (gone, but wasn't involved in any way). On that battlefield Raikkonen's "don't care" attitude was genuine. And people kept saying that he doesn't participate enough. I don't wonder why he didn't.

Lewis was obviously The Chosen One. There was a hoping that he were to become a team uniter, but he seems to be not a particularly good leader. He is willing to do wrong things, willing to use bad advice and far too interested in his own privileges.

People always said that Ron is the problem, but let's see what has happened. Dennis left, Hamilton stayed. Scandals remained. There is no way Lewis and Anthony could walk away from the situation with a clean face.

#37 kar

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:54

I'm not inclined to be fair to Lewis, but he is still, relatively, young. It's hard to expect someone just 23-24 to be a leader. Especially at a team like McLaren.

In fact there are very few drivers in the pitlane anymore you could say are natural leaders. Alonso and Vettel spring to mind but they are truly exceptional in that regard (in my opinion).

The argument for Kubica could be made too, but he seems more a kick them in the bottom kinda guy not a grab em by the scruff of the neck and drag them like an Alonso or Vettel.

#38 Anomnader

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:58

Originally posted by kar
Alonso and Vettel spring to mind but they are truly exceptional in that regard (in my opinion).

The argument for Kubica could be made too, but he seems more a kick them in the bottom kinda guy not a grab em by the scruff of the neck and drag them like an Alonso or Vettel.


Besides getting linked by fans to MS, vettel has in my opinion done totally nothing that enables him to be considered as being able to lead a team, I have no idea where thats coming from

#39 potmotr

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:01

Originally posted by Suzy
Doesn't anybody else think it's alarming that Anthony Hamilton has managed, with the aid of MM, to force Ron Dennis out of McLaren?


I've been a big supporter of both Lewis and Anthony Hamilton since they entered Formula One, and my sometimes foaming defence (especially in th Alonso days) proves this.

HOWEVER, should this story turn out to be true, I'll no longer back them.

What complete and utter arrogance to try and take down Ron Dennis. Especially by climbing into bed with, and getting manipulated by, that reptile Max Mosley, becoming pawns in his agenda to destroy Dennis.

Dennis made Lewis Hamilton. He offered massive substantial financial support and career guidence from a young age.

Yes, Lewis held up his end of the bargain by developing as a driver and winning every major championship he's competed in.

But in no way should either Hamilton think they are bigger than their team.

Lewis, and his Dad, should act like men.

They should swallow what is at the very worst a yellow card offence for a minor fib to the stewards and stop fuelling the fire in this utterly ridiculous story.

Both Lewis and his Dad are doing their reputations far more harm with such a lack of integrity.

They're appearing greedy and opportunistic.

When I was racing karts the Dads who got too heated and started yelling at other competitors or their own boys/girls were sent out of the pits by race officials until they'd cooled down.

It was a club rule. McLaren should do the same and muzzle Anthony Hamilton.

I thought for a long time that it was great Lewis was being managed by his old man rather than a professional with a track record in sports management.

But Anthony's actions, which are no doubt charged by high emotions at what he perceives as slights to his son's reputation, are dreadful.

For a big supporter like me, he's destroying the Lewis Hamilton brand in a far more comprehensive matter than one stewards hearing in Melbourne will ever do.

You win as a team, you lose as a team.

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#40 JPW

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:02

LOL I liked this headline

Ron Dennis set to quit McLaren to save Lewis Hamilton :lol:

#41 undersquare

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:08

You couldn't call Alonso a leader, he's fast, clever, good with feedback, that's all. He's no sooner back in Renault than the whole team knows he wants to leave. Even skipping debriefs. Everyone knows that.

As for Vettel, he's 21 for goodness' sake.

Hamilton is someone the team naturally focusses on, but way too young to 'lead' the team.

Anyway this just started with a junk post.

#42 fed up

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:09

Originally posted by UreaBorealis
http://www.timesonli...icle6101379.ece

The interesting bit:



Haven't been following the McLaren discussion lately enough to say anything on the credibility of that.


Absolute BS!

I don't know why you guys read that paper on matters F1, it is in Bernie's back pocket and prone to smear campaigns in line with whatever agenda suits Bernie.

I'd imagine that AH wouldn't have been happy, but he is not ungrateful. Know way would he betray the one person that nurture his son from an early age and given him the F1 opportunity.

Read other papers on F1, but not the Times or the Telegraph.

#43 pingu666

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:11

did ron have any part in liegate, whatsoever ?

#44 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:12

Originally posted by fed up


Absolute BS!

I don't know why you guys read that paper on matters F1, it is in Bernie's back pocket and prone to smear campaigns in line with whatever agenda suits Bernie.

I'd imagine that AH wouldn't have been happy, but he is not ungrateful. Know way would he betray the one person that nurture his son from an early age and given him the F1 opportunity.

Read other papers on F1, but not the Times or the Telegraph.


Autosport ran a feature where they mentioned AH ran to Max about the whole lie story wanting out of McLaren, the article makes sense if you really think about it.

#45 engel

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:14

There is no way Ron would quit for the Hamiltons. Only way Ron would quit is if he's being blackmailed into it. No offense to Hamilton fans but really he's not that important, he's a good driver and everything but not important enough to dictate terms to Ron. IMO always.

#46 kismet

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:14

While I find the idea that a driver's dad would have that kind of clout at a team of McLaren's stature as disgusting/unbelieveable as anyone, surely - IF THE RUMOURS ARE TRUE - this is a monster McLaren themselves have created.

I feel sorry for Ron whom I've always regarded as the one endearing(ly human) bit of McLaren's public image. As for the rest of the big cheeses at McLaren Mercedes - well, they may want to watch their backs because if Ron can be ousted that easily, what hope does anyone else have? Beware of the wrath of Anthony Hamilton and play nice with his son. :

#47 kar

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:14

My view of Vettel's leadership comes from the way he galvanised the chaotic management at Toro Rosso around him and the way he helped that team move dramatically forward.

Leadership has many qualities, for someone so young I think Vettel has a remarkable ability to help shape people around him.

Alonso is much the same. While I think he has many characteristics that are quite selfish, it is completely churlish to believe the admiration and respect Renault have for him comes from anything other than the strong direction and authority Alonso provides in the car. Look at Piquet's interview with F1 Racing this month. It comes across blindingly clear.

Drawing this back to the topic, Lewis doesn't seem to have this same ability. He drives the car but doesn't seem to be able to exert himself, he's never had to - his dad has always done it for him.

Self-starting people like Fernando, like Vettel like many people really, have to take charge themselves to get anywhere. Lewis has had to do a lot of work in the car, but he's been fortunate to have his dad to take care of the stuff outside the car.

That's where this is coming from in my opinion, Anthony is trying to assert himself - and therefore his son's interests - over Dennis'. It was a battle Fernando lost - but Anthony may well win.

Whether or not that is a good thing, time will tell.

#48 Anomnader

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:17

Originally posted by kar
My view of Vettel's leadership comes from the way he galvanised the chaotic management at Toro Rosso around him and the way he helped that team move dramatically forward.

Leadership has many qualities, for someone so young I think Vettel has a remarkable ability to help shape people around him.


I can't see where the evidence that that was all down to Vettel is coming from, the team might have focused on vettel as their main driver, but thats the team, nothing to do with vettel, from what I've seen he's just being along for the ride, albiet as a brilliant young driver.

If thats going to be the reasoning for applying it to vettel I'm sure many other drivers could apply for leadership qualities

#49 potmotr

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:18

Originally posted by kismet
Beware of the wrath of Anthony Hamilton and play nice with his son. :


It would appear the ego of both has reached such a size that they cannot tolerate even the slightest criticism aimed in their direction. They've clearly learned to listen to all the fawning yes men and other flunkies while attempting to insulate themselves from straight talkers who could give them a dose of reality. This is tragic.

#50 Orin

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:19

Originally posted by BrawnsBrain
So with Dennis gone from the F1 operation altogether, to play with his road cars, will you miss him?


He's what made McLaren great, and was the only guy who offered a challenge to Ferrari from 2000-2005 when Schumacher + Todt + Brawn + FIA bias + FOM money was turning F1 into a snoozefest. It's a shame so many have decided to do Mosley's job for him by believing a mixture of hearsay and conjecture during the last couple of years. Dennis was never about winning at any cost (unlike Todt), for him it was about being the best. A great competitor. :up: