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any action for kovalinen being blocked?


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#1 Boing 2

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 13:43

Just curious, after Alonso's being 80m in front of another car was defined as blocking and fit for a grid penalty. Whats the penalty for being 3m in front of a car?

maybe it depends on what car you're in front of?

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#2 TickTickBooom

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 13:44

Doesn't look like McLaren are even lodging a complaint. And the way their complaints seem to go, it's hardly surprising. ;)

#3 aditya-now

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 13:46

And it surely also depends on who you are.

Sebastian is the "golden child" of F1 at the moment, like Brawn GP is the "golden team" right now, so pretty much has to happen for them being punished...

Of course, some are more equal than others. :smoking:

#4 Dragonfly

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 13:47

Better look around for an existing thread than starting another paranoic one all over again.

#5 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 13:48

i keep checking back here expecting to have found the result had been changed! Call me cynical, but i seriously think there are grounds for an appeal!

#6 TickTickBooom

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 13:49

Originally posted by jimjimjeroo
i keep checking back here expecting to have found the result had been changed! Call me cynical, but i seriously think there are grounds for an appeal!

I thought so too, but it looks like we're wrong. :confused:

#7 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 13:54

Why does every **** with a meaningless question or comment insist on making a new thread on every rare occasion that an idea pops into their head? :

#8 Gilles12

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 13:56

Originally posted by Chubby_Deuce
Why does every **** with a meaningless question or comment insist on making a new thread on every rare occasion that an idea pops into their head? :

lol :lol:

It's seems to be a common phenomenon on this BB

#9 EthanM

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 13:59

Originally posted by aditya-now
And it surely also depends on who you are.

Sebastian is the "golden child" of F1 at the moment, like Brawn GP is the "golden team" right now, so pretty much has to happen for them being punished...

Of course, some are more equal than others. :smoking:


Didn't Vettel get punished pretty harshly in Australia or was I watching a different race?
Wonder what exactly you 're smoking by the way ... very bad choice in smilies, you left yourself wide open for that

#10 Burai

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 14:00

Originally posted by jimjimjeroo
i keep checking back here expecting to have found the result had been changed! Call me cynical, but i seriously think there are grounds for an appeal!


You should phone Martin Whitmarsh and let him know. He probably hasn't realised it what with him being at the circuit, being in charge of the team and having access to Heikki, telemetry and knowing exactly whether they were on a fast lap or not.

What he really needed was to be sat at home watching the telly to see an out-of-context replay pop up and judge it based on all 5 seconds of footage that was shown just once with no other supporting facts or evidence of anything.

He'll thank you for it. Imagine what might have happened if I hadn't phoned him to warn him about those transparent engine covers before they got to Melbourne!

#11 Galko877

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 14:02

Originally posted by aditya-now
And it surely also depends on who you are.

Sebastian is the "golden child" of F1 at the moment, like Brawn GP is the "golden team" right now, so pretty much has to happen for them being punished...

Of course, some are more equal than others. :smoking:


Probably that's why Vettel was punished so hard for Australia. :rolleyes:

#12 Gilles12

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 14:03

Originally posted by Burai


You should phone Martin Whitmarsh and let him know. He probably hasn't realised it what with him being at the circuit, being in charge of the team and having access to Heikki, telemetry and knowing exactly whether they were on a fast lap or not.

What he really needed was to be sat at home watching the telly to see an out-of-context replay pop up and judge it based on all 5 seconds of footage that was shown just once with no other supporting facts or evidence of anything.


It wouldn't be the first time Martin has offered his opinion without access to all the facts, which has subsequently turned out to be incorrect, despite having access to telemetry and knowing exactly whether they were on a fast lap or not.

#13 MWM

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 14:03

Originally posted by Galko877


Probably that's why Vettel was punished so hard for Australia. :rolleyes:

Stop letting the cold hard facts getting in the way of somebody elses paranoia. ;)

#14 F1Champion

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 14:06

Firstly why was Heikki weaving before the hairpin?

Secondly you could argue that Vettel was held up by Rosberg ahead, meaning he was compromised and backed into Heikki.

#15 anthony says

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 14:18

It looked like more Rosberg's fault than Vettell's, although they will each have had a radio warning that Kovalainen was coming up behind them.

Kovalainen did seem angry, so perhaps he was on a reasonable lap (and he missed out on Q3 by 0.067 sec), but if McLaren don't protest, I expect the explanation is that they don't feel in any position to protest anything just at present.

#16 Dragonfly

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 14:27

Penalize Rosberg now!

#17 EthanM

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 14:28

Ban them all ... give team principals the cars and make them race them.

#18 Viktor

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 14:30

Look at this time sheet from FIA, http://www.fia.com/e...fying_times.pdf, there you can see that lap 9 was Kovalainens out lap and it was lap 9 he was held up on, if you look at the replay from BBC you see that Kovalainen continues the lap and then enters the pits at the end of the next lap, lap 10 his last lap.
It's a none issue as both (all three?) drivers was on there out laps.

/Viktor

#19 anthony says

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:18

Originally posted by Viktor
Look at this time sheet from FIA, http://www.fia.com/e...fying_times.pdf, there you can see that lap 9 was Kovalainens out lap and it was lap 9 he was held up on, if you look at the replay from BBC you see that Kovalainen continues the lap and then enters the pits at the end of the next lap, lap 10 his last lap.
It's a none issue as both (all three?) drivers was on there out laps.
/Viktor

I don't follow your logic - as lap 9 was his out lap, you would expect him to complete lap 10 as his hot lap, not come into the pit.

Looking at the lap chart, you would think the hold up must have occurred on lap 10 and was the explanation for him aborting that lap, which was his hot lap.

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#20 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:32

Originally posted by Chubby_Deuce
Why does every **** with a meaningless question or comment insist on making a new thread on every rare occasion that an idea pops into their head? :


why is it that people on here who see something they disagree feel the need to become abusive, from the information available to the viewer thats what was perceived! Surely the whole point of this site is to discuss what is going on in the world of formula one!? Maybe if thats something you don't want to do, you should piss off to www.grandprix.com!

Now, can we establish if this occured on his out lap or no!?

Also why do people get sh1tty when threads are posted, get tired of reading threads with 2000+ posts in it!

#21 Viktor

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:41

Originally posted by anthony says

I don't follow your logic - as lap 9 was his out lap, you would expect him to complete lap 10 as his hot lap, not come into the pit.

Looking at the lap chart, you would think the hold up must have occurred on lap 10 and was the explanation for him aborting that lap, which was his hot lap.

But he did not abort the lap (e.g. dive into the pits). Look at the replay from the BBC, he creates a gap between himself and Vettel and tries to start his flying lap in clean air.
Look at the chart again, remember that a P after the lap number indicates that the driver entered the pits at the end of the lap.
Lap 1 - out lap
Lap 2 - flying lap
Lap 3 - in lap
Lap 4 - out lap
Lap 5 - in lap
Lap 6 - out lap
Lap 7 - flying lap
Lap 8 - in lap
Lap 9 - out lap - The insident happen on this lap, we know that Vettel was only on track in the last minutes of the session.
Lap 10 - in lap - The insident can't have happend on this lap as Kovalainen finished the lap he hit traffic as seen on the pictures from BBC)

/Viktor

#22 Clatter

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:42

Originally posted by anthony says

I don't follow your logic - as lap 9 was his out lap, you would expect him to complete lap 10 as his hot lap, not come into the pit.

Looking at the lap chart, you would think the hold up must have occurred on lap 10 and was the explanation for him aborting that lap, which was his hot lap.


Not sure of the timings, but I think the session might have ended before HK crossed the line therefore he couldnt do his last run. Not sure if being blocked was enough of a delay or not.

#23 pUs

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:43

Originally posted by aditya-now
And it surely also depends on who you are.

Sebastian is the "golden child" of F1 at the moment, like Brawn GP is the "golden team" right now, so pretty much has to happen for them being punished...

Of course, some are more equal than others. :smoking:


Well, for being the new "golden child" I'd say he was quite severly punished for his incident in Melbourne..

#24 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:44

I think you're guessing slightly, so thats not definite.

At the end of the day, even though they were wronged, if the appealed and won, they would gain no tangible benefit.

Heikki would still be where he is, Lewis wouldn't move forward, all the would happen is that Vettel would move down to 5th position and everyone below that move up, as theres no gain, probably pointless causing a fuss.

#25 Gilles12

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:45

The incident happened on the penultimate corner of his out lap

The question is did it impact his run up and speed into the last corner and onto the start/finish straight?

#26 Viktor

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:47

Originally posted by Clatter


Not sure of the timings, but I think the session might have ended before HK crossed the line therefore he couldnt do his last run. Not sure if being blocked was enough of a delay or not.

Having looked at the replay once again I can tell you that it's green when he crosses the line.

/Viktor

#27 Clatter

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:49

Originally posted by Viktor

Having looked at the replay once again I can tell you that it's green when he crosses the line.

/Viktor


Fair enough.

#28 Viktor

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:50

Originally posted by Gilles12
The incident happened on the penultimate corner of his out lap

The question is did it impact his run up and speed into the last corner and onto the start/finish straight?

I very much doubt it, it's a F1 car and it can get up to the speed it needs in the corner in a short time and distance. And as far as I know its the drivers and teams responsibility to find clear air to do your qualifying run in.

/Viktor

#29 EthanM

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 15:52

I ve been telling you since the other thread that it happened on his out lap (http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=2) ... anyone with half a brain can see it even from just the BBC replay, but ... McLaren fans seem to always be looking for something to suggest they were wronged

#30 Francesc

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:00

McLaren don't even bother to protest for Kovalainen, they concentrate all of their efforts on Lewis, if it was posible, they would be racing with just one car

#31 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:03

Originally posted by EthanM
I ve been telling you since the other thread that it happened on his out lap (http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=2) ... anyone with half a brain can see it even from just the BBC replay, but ... McLaren fans seem to always be looking for something to suggest they were wronged


Well, you'd have a good point, expect one little thing spoils it, its not just McLaren fans mentioning it.


Epic fail on your attempted bash...

#32 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:04

Originally posted by Francesc
McLaren don't even bother to protest for Kovalainen, they concentrate all of their efforts on Lewis, if it was posible, they would be racing with just one car


Like Renault and Alonso you mean? well at-least Kovi is getting the upgrades which Piquet isn't

#33 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:06

Originally posted by Anomnader


Like Renault and Alonso you mean? well at-least Kovi is getting the upgrades which Piquet isn't

What does Renault have to do with this?

#34 EthanM

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:09

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

What does Renault have to do with this?


nothing .. he's just being defensive. I m sure if the thread goes on he 'll mention Ferrari and Schumacher in some context

Originally posted by Anomnader


Well, you'd have a good point, expect one little thing spoils it, its not just McLaren fans mentioning it.


Epic fail on your attempted bash...


Yeah but you people seem to be the only ones insisting on it after being told it was an out lap ;)

#35 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:11

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

What does Renault have to do with this?


Why not, you're not suggesting people should be biased in there opinions are you and single out a certain team whilst several others do the same thing?

#36 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:12

Originally posted by EthanM


Yeah but you people seem to be the only ones insisting on it after being told it was an out lap ;)


I don't think it is, some of the people in this thread and the other are not McLaren fans, and also, yes, why not take the word of a mclaren basher without any evidence.

#37 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:13

Originally posted by Anomnader
Why not, you're not going to be biased in your opinions are you?

I just didn't see the relevance of it, thats all.

#38 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:15

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

I just didn't see the relevance of it, thats all.


No, I wouldn't expect you to.

#39 EthanM

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:16

Originally posted by Anomnader


I don't think it is, some of the people in this thread and the other are not McLaren, and also, yes, why not take the word of a mclaren basher without any evidence.


How does me saying no foul it happened on an out lap make me a basher? Are you insane or just unable to tolerate something that doesn't fit in with your view of poor McLaren they are persecuted by everyone? You people go so far as to suggest the FIA is supporting Vettel in the face of the penalty he got in Aus ...

PS you don't need my word, go watch it ... do you even watch races or just pick up gossip on the boards and run with them?

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#40 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:18

Originally posted by Anomnader
No, I wouldn't expect you to.

I wouldn't expect anyone to, really.

#41 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:19

Originally posted by EthanM


How does me saying no foul it happened on an out lap make me a basher? Are you insane or just unable to tolerate something that doesn't fit in with your view of poor McLaren they are persecuted by everyone? You people go so far as to suggest the FIA is supporting Vettel in the face of the penalty he got in Aus ...

PS you don't need my word, go watch it ... do you even watch races or just pick up gossip on the boards and run with them?


Maybe I wouldn't term you a basher if you didn't take several opportunities to to bash McLaren fans in this very thread :rotfl:

#42 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:20

Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

I wouldn't expect anyone to, really.


Maybe you should look at the original quoted post.

#43 EthanM

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:20

Originally posted by Anomnader


Maybe I wouldn't term you a basher if you didn't take several opportunities to to bash McLaren fans in this very thread :rotfl:


I bash whiners, like you, that jump on any bandwagon no matter how irrelevant and cry oh we were wronged AGAIN.

#44 Peppe

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:20

It couldn't have been on Vettels inlap because the session was ended when Vettel crossed the line to start his inlap so Heikki couldn't improve his time.

Judging by laptimes and time of lap from the FIA timing documents you see that Kova was 4 seconds behind Vettel when they begun their hotlaps. Vettel completed his and Kovalainen then crossed the line 9 seconds later in pitlane.


	Vettel						 Kovalainen	

Type of lap	Lap ended at			 Type of lap	 Lap ended at	

Outlap			14:41:26	00:01:35	 Outlap			 14:35:46	00:01:36

Hotlap			14:43:01	00:02:05	 Hotlap			 14:37:22	00:01:45

Inlap			14:45:06			 Inlap			 14:39:07	00:02:23

								 Outlap			 14:41:30	00:01:40

								 Inlap			 14:43:10


#45 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:21

Originally posted by EthanM


I bash whiners, like you, that jump on any bandwagon no matter how irrelevant and cry oh we were wronged AGAIN.


And as was pointed out, it isn't just McLaren fans, but then that would make your bash invalid and so you decided to ignore it.

Fail again :wave:

#46 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:23

Originally posted by Anomnader
Maybe you should look at the original quoted post.

I'm well aware of the sequence of events.

#47 EthanM

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:24

Originally posted by Anomnader


And as was pointed out, it isn't just McLaren fans, but then that would make your bash invalid and so you decided to ignore it.

Fail again :wave:


hahaha ... You did notice it's just you that still thinks there's a foul right? Talk about fail ;)

#48 mursuka80

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:26

So,this was a non-issue.I expected that,because in Finnish broadcast they mentioned nothing.Its funny when this kind of thing happens its automatically conspiracy against Mcmerc :) You digged your own hole Woking boys :wave:

#49 Anomnader

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:26

Qualifying
Q1 1m36.646s (14th)
Q2 1m36.032s (12th overall)
Satisfied with his balance in the morning session, Heikki started qualifying in a confident mood, setting a 1m36.646s lap early in the session – it was enough to place him 14th and meant he was able to abort a later lap and move into Q2. Into the second session, he once again attacked, setting a 1m36.032s despite locking his left-front on the entry to Turn 11. It was enough to place him 12th after a later attempt was again abandoned following a delay in the middle sector. “We’ve really improved our car this weekend,” said Heikki. “It was unfortunate we couldn’t go any faster in Q2 but I am glad for the team that Lewis made it into Q3. While 12th position doesn’t truly reflect my pace, it’s clear that we’re heading in the right direction. With the right strategy and some better luck in the opening laps, I’ll be aiming for my first points of the year tomorrow.



#50 mursuka80

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 16:27

No mention of blocking,but keep trying :up: