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Lola to return? Any others?


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#1 f1steveuk

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:06

I've just read the news that Lola are considering a return to F1, of course they have been in and out of the sport on a regular basis. That got me thinking, Honda have dipped in and out, as have Renault and March, but who else has "returned"?

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#2 bigears

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:15

Mercedes entered their cars as work entries but in the 1990s, they returned to F1 as engine suppliers for McLaren.

#3 alansart

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:29

Originally posted by bigears
Mercedes entered their cars as work entries but in the 1990s, they returned to F1 as engine suppliers for McLaren.


Weren't they Saubers?

...and they also entered the own cars in the 50's :)

#4 zakeriath

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:37

It would be interesting to know who owns the rights to the old team names, BRM, Tyrrell, Shadow, Lotus, Brabham etc

#5 f1steveuk

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:37

Though you'd struggle to call Mercedes a constructor this time around?

#6 bigears

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:38

Originally posted by alansart


Weren't they Saubers?

...and they also entered the own cars in the 50's :)


Oh of course! I will go back and hide in a dark corner...

#7 alansart

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:40

Originally posted by zakeriath
It would be interesting to know who owns the rights to the old team names, BRM, Tyrrell, Shadow, Lotus, Brabham etc


The rights for Lotus (GP) were owned by David Hunt some years ago - Is that still the case or does the Classic Team Lotus outfit have something to do with it?

#8 Red Socks

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:43

Originally posted by zakeriath
It would be interesting to know who owns the rights to the old team names, BRM, Tyrrell, Shadow, Lotus, Brabham etc


AFAIK BRM belongs to GKN, Tyrrell to Bob Tyrrell, Shadow to Don Nicholls and Brabham probably to Bernie Ecclestone now.

#9 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:48

Originally posted by alansart


The rights for Lotus (GP) were owned by David Hunt some years ago - Is that still the case or does the Classic Team Lotus outfit have something to do with it?


DH does still own 'Team Lotus' hence Clive & Hazel having to put 'Classic' before their team name.

#10 f1steveuk

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 17:53

Although, all, sadly, not returning to constructing F1 cars.

Tyrrell, so Paul Stodart didn't buy the name when he brought all the kit? Never knew that.

#11 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 18:02

But didn't BAR own it, hence why they ran the team in 1998? I know they did very little with the entry other than the paperwork, but who did own the name 99 and beyond?

#12 ray b

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 18:15

Alfa Romeo

#13 kayemod

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 18:52

BMW raced in 1952, gave up and returned many years later after swallowing Sauber, does that count?

#14 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 18:56

I hear they did some stuff in the 80s too ;)

#15 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 19:00

There was the turbo BMW episode in between this anyway ;). I think many other constructors came, went, and came back : Porsche, Hart, Maserati, Tomaso, RAM, OSCA come to mind, just to stick to the WDC. There must be others.

edit : you deffo are faster than me Ross ;).

#16 David McKinney

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 19:37

Originally posted by kayemod
BMW raced in 1952

Really?

#17 David Holland

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 20:59

Well, I suppose the 1952-53 BMW entries were really home built specials and only F2 at that. As was the BMW entry for the F2 section of the 1969 German GP, but the team non-started after Gerhard Mitter's fatal accident. I suppose they've never properly returned because they're actually called BMW-Sauber, which I never really understood to be honest.

I'm pleased about the Lola news - every few years they dip their toes in the F1 world, it has become a bit of a tradition!

#18 kayemod

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 21:04

Originally posted by David McKinney

Really?


Yes, really. There were five BMWs entered for the 1952 German GP at the (where else?) Nurburgring, and a smaller number in one or two other races then and in 53. I was stretching a point of course, I think all of these were private entries, but they were BMWs on the entry list, BMW cars with BMW engines. I quite intentionally wasn't counting their return as an engine supplier for Brabham and others in the 1980s.

#19 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 21:33

Sorry kayemod, but if you follow that reasoning Connaught A-types are actually Lea-Francises, Cooper T20s are Bristols and F2 HWMs are Altas.

I'm no expert on Eigenbaus, but I think most of them were very far removed from BMW 328 chassis ....

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#20 RA Historian

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 21:33

Originally posted by f1steveuk
I've just read the news that Lola are considering a return to F1,

I sure hope that it is more thought out and successful than 1997.. :eek:
Tom

#21 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 21:39

Can hardly be less thought and less successful I think :D !

#22 D-Type

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 21:56

How about BRM? - 1951 and back in 1956
And Connaught dropped out as a works team in 1954 although a couple of privateers raced. Does that count?

#23 kayemod

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 21:58

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Sorry kayemod, but if you follow that reasoning Connaught A-types are actually Lea-Francises, Cooper T20s are Bristols and F2 HWMs are Altas.

I'm no expert on Eigenbaus, but I think most of them were very far removed from BMW 328 chassis ....


All absolutely correct, but Connaught/Lea-Francis, Cooper T20/Bristols and HWM/Altas were all listed as such, both at the time and subsequently. I'm no expert on 1952 Eigenbaus either, and I knew I was making a pretty feeble point, but the German GP organisers actually listed all these private entries as BMW/BMWs, so they were there in print if not in fact. Do I get away with this on a technicality?

#24 David McKinney

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 22:16

No, because the thread is about manufacturer participation. The BMW company played no part in the 1952 and 1953 appearances of cars which may or may not have borne their name

#25 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 23:23

Originally posted by D-Type
How about BRM? - 1951 and back in 1956

They also dropped out early 76 and came back (if you can call it that...) in 1977

#26 stuartbrs

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 10:15

Porsche?

Obviously 2 of those efforts were "only" as an engine supplier..

#27 alansart

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 11:46

Originally posted by David McKinney
No, because the thread is about manufacturer participation. The BMW company played no part in the 1952 and 1953 appearances of cars which may or may not have borne their name


What about the cars entered for 67, 68 & 69 German GP's. F2 cars, but still in competition.

#28 kayemod

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 12:00

Originally posted by alansart


What about the cars entered for 67, 68 & 69 German GP's. F2 cars, but still in competition.


The 67 & 68 cars were Lola BMWs, but the 69 cars were BMW/BMWs, and all the 67,68 and 69 cars were officially entered by the factory, Bayerische Motoren Werke AG. The 52 & 53 cars were entered as BMW/BMWs, but in the names of their individual privateer owners.

#29 ghinzani

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 12:35

Splutter! This from crash.net

"Following the announcement less than 24 hours ago that Lola is evaluating a return to Formula 1 after more than a decade away, David Richards has become the latest to throw his name into the hat for a potential 2010 entry – in a move that would see the iconic Aston Martin brand in the top flight for the first time in history."

http://www.crash.net...ards_hints.html

Words fail me.

#30 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 12:57

Hold on, I'll do my David Richards impression...


Hello, I'd like to run an F1 team. But I want you or someone you know to pay for it. Cheerio.

#31 sramoa

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 13:07

These cars were(BMW) :Balsa's BMW Special,(1952 German GP-Marcel Balsa),Heck BMW(for Ernst Klodwig),Greifzu BMW(for Rudolf Krause) and BMW Eigenbau(Günther Bechem's design:Bechem and Harry Merkel in 1952 German GP)

#32 alansart

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 13:11

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Hold on, I'll do my David Richards impression...


Hello, I'd like to run an F1 team. But I want you or someone you know to pay for it. Cheerio.


Isn't that what they all do?

#33 Chezrome

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 13:38

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Hold on, I'll do my David Richards impression...


Hello, I'd like to run an F1 team. But I want you or someone you know to pay for it. Cheerio.


Geez, that's harsh.

#34 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 13:49

But really how many times have we seen Richards/Prodrive F1 rumours? It will be news when he shows up with a car.

#35 Chezrome

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 14:05

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
But really how many times have we seen Richards/Prodrive F1 rumours? It will be news when he shows up with a car.


Yeah, but... like I posted in another thread: the FIA really screwed his last F1 plans. I know, I know, some posters think that Richards wasn't serious and stuff... but I always felt that was faulty reasoning. 'It is not that bad that the FIA came back on its promise, Richards was just trying to sound important.'

If I promise you a bicycle, and you agree to buy it, and then I say I don't want to sell it after all, I have broken my promise. It is nonsense to say: 'Oh, that is not important, Ross wasn't going to pay anyway.'

#36 f1steveuk

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 16:50

So in summary, and as constructors of chassis'

Alfa Romeo, March, Lola, Renault and Honda.......................

#37 philippe charuest

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 18:29

we should change the name of the thread to people who left formula one and nobody want to see them back ever . david richards . pollock . walkinshaw ,dennis ,and hoping that briatore will leave the sooner the better, seriously a name that id like to see again in F1 is MATRA(they did a short return as Talbot)

#38 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 19:26

Originally posted by philippe charuest
we should change the name of the thread to people who left formula one and nobody want to see them back ever . david richards . pollock . walkinshaw ,dennis ,and hoping that briatore will leave the sooner the better, seriously a name that id like to see again in F1 is MATRA(they did a short return as Talbot)


I don't understand the emnity towards David Richards or, indeed Ron Dennis. What was Richards' crime? To run BAR more successfully than any who preceded him, and not fawn over Jacques Villeneuve? Please explain your comments re DR and RD. Thanks

#39 D-Type

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 19:36

Originally posted by f1steveuk
So in summary, and as constructors of chassis'

Alfa Romeo, March, Lola, Renault and Honda.......................

and BRM and Connaught :p

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#40 Tim Murray

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 19:49

And Brabham (missed 1988, back in '89).

#41 D-Type

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 21:19

Cooper: Monaco 1950, 1952-55, 1957-68

On a technicality: Williams 1972-76 and 1978-now and on even weaker ground Jaguar Syracusa 1950 and Italy 1950 as an engine supplier then 2000-2004 as a manufacturer

#42 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 22:04

What would we class Gilby as?

As TNFers we should all back the return of Connew - that's for sure!!

#43 philippe charuest

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 14:38

Originally posted by Nigel Beresford


I don't understand the emnity towards David Richards or, indeed Ron Dennis. What was Richards' crime? To run BAR more successfully than any who preceded him, and not fawn over Jacques Villeneuve? Please explain your comments re DR and RD. Thanks

i couldnt care less about jacques villeneuve imo its not even a real WC not a great one for sure . as for Richards ,he is just one of a long list of people who are/were in motorsport for the money and the money only thats it . they are i guess people of there time with value that i dont share.

#44 RA Historian

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 15:55

Well, we are all in something or other for the money or we wouldn't eat, would we?

As for David Richards, let's see.. Very successful rally program, winning Aston Martin GT effort, winning Ferrari Maranello GT effort, brought BAR from chaos to respectability, orchestrated the saving of Aston Martin, now bringing Aston Martin back to racing again this time in the LMP category, yeah, I'd have to agree with M Charuest that David Richards is a real wanker....

Tom

#45 philippe charuest

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 16:42

then everything is perfect in a perfect world, with f1 team running on 500 million $ per year budget . racing on pharaonic track in country were theres not even national motorsport , great i like what they did of that sport, please dont stop the good job

#46 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 19:46

Originally posted by philippe charuest
then everything is perfect in a perfect world, with f1 team running on 500 million $ per year budget . racing on pharaonic track in country were theres not even national motorsport , great i like what they did of that sport, please dont stop the good job


But Philippe, you can't blame David Richards for that. Be rational about it... people like Richards and Dennis worked hard, took risks and are achievers. For that they should be saluted, not hated.

#47 Giraffe

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 20:44

Originally posted by Gregor Marshall
What would we class Gilby as?

As TNFers we should all back the return of Connew - that's for sure!!


I will second that! The Connew story would at the very least make a great TV movie........... :cat:

#48 alansart

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 21:09

Originally posted by Giraffe


I will second that! The Connew story would at the very least make a great TV movie........... :cat:


Who would play Barry?

#49 kayemod

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 09:16

Originally posted by alansart


Who would play Barry?


How about ..... Barry ?

#50 philippe charuest

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 14:41

Originally posted by Nigel Beresford


But Philippe, you can't blame David Richards for that. Be rational about it... people like Richards and Dennis worked hard, took risks and are achievers. For that they should be saluted, not hated.

to be saluted depend of what you achieved and they dont deserve congratulation for what they "achieved", anyway its no a personal vendetta . but its not either a simplistic blame bernie ecclestone or blame mosley for everything wrong in motorsport . all that generation is guilty including david richards. ron dennis , frank william name it including the journalists very happy with climatise press center" courtoisie this and that " fed with champagne and caviar. and now the vintage racing event and magazines will fall in the same trap and become commercial pretext to sell bling-bling watches and champagne. but who am i fooling vintage racing is already in the hand of speculator .