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Amon and the rare Ferrari


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#1 Juihi

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 06:52

NZ racing legend has vivid memories of the P4 from the 1960s - including the time he left one burning in a ditch

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Pretty much the last time Chris Amon saw the Ferrari sports racer pictured on this page was in 1967, when he and Scotland's Jackie Stewart finished second in an endurance race in Britain.

A month or so earlier, the New Zealander had abandoned an identical car at Le Mans. He left it on fire in a ditch, surrounded by French policemen. It was midnight and Amon was out of the classic 24-hour endurance race.

Now, the Ferrari 330 P4 Amon last drove with Stewart 42 years ago goes up for sale at Ferrari's headquarters in Italy. A man from London house Sotheby's will handle the May 17 auction. Talk is chassis number 0858, one of only three P4s ever built, will fetch more than US$5 million ($9 million).

Four P4s made up Ferrari's sports racing team in 1967. Three were dedicated P4s, with chassis numbers 0856, 0858 and 0860. The fourth car was an earlier P3 model, updated to P4 specifications. The revisions included a stronger engine and a Ferrari-built gearbox to replace the P3's ZF unit.

The P4 was the final iteration of this particular series for Ferrari. It is regarded as one of the greatest sports-racing prototypes ever designed by Ferrari. The car for sale has been in the hands of its American owner for the past 38 years.

"To say this car is rare is an understatement," says Max Girardo, managing director of specialist automotive auction house RM Europe.

"There is tremendous excitement surrounding 0858's appearance at our auction.

"Its offering represents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to acquire one of the most important race cars ever created and a highly desirable piece of Scuderia Ferrari racing history."

Amon's association with the P4 and its 4.2-litre V12 engine began in the United States in December 1966, preparing for the Daytona race in February'67. He was one of four drivers Ferrari were using.

"It was a bit awe-inspiring for me because it was sort of my first connection with Ferrari and I was conscious of the fact that there were four of us going for two Formula One seats," he said from his home in Taupo.

"I wanted to show up reasonably well and fortunately I did."

The first thing Amon noticed about the P4 was how nimble it was. "It was a lovely car. I'd been driving Ford GT40s for a couple of years. They were a really nice car and I had done many, many miles in them.

"But the P4 was far more nimble. I noticed that as soon as I got into it. Compared with the Ford, it felt much more like a CanAm-type car than a long-distance car."

The P4 on paper developed around 360kW (480bhp) but was down considerably on torque compared with the 4.7- and 7-litre V8s used in the Mk I and Mk II GT40s.

"Some of that 480 horsepower in the P4 never left the stable," said Amon. "Oh, I think it was genuine but with the various oil-scavenging problems once the engine was in the chassis, I don't think they ever produced the power they got on the test bench."

But despite the power difference, the P4s cleaned out the GT40s at Daytona. "They were quite a lot quicker around the infield at Daytona, whereas the Fords had us at top speed on the banking."

Ferrari skipped the next North American race at Sebring and headed for hometown Italy, pairing Amon with Lorenzo Bandini in one of two P4s in a 1000km race at Monza.

Amon and Bandini won in P4 chassis number 0858. The Italian fans were ecstatic. Bandini died two weeks later in the Formula One Grand Prix at Monaco.

"I finished third at Monaco," said Amon. "I was running second but punctured after hitting debris from Lorenzo's car and had to pit. It was a terrible day, that."

Later that year Amon would partner Stewart in P4 0858 to finish second. But his most vivid recollection of the Ferrari 330 P4 is from the 1967 Le Mans, where Ferrari entered three cars. Amon didn't finish.

"I got a puncture in the right-rear tyre and the suspension upright was scraping on the track. There were sparks everywhere. I had about seven miles [11.2km] or so to go before I could pit and change tyres.

"Back then there was a toolbox in the cars, so I decided to stop and change the tyre myself. We carried a smaller get-home tyre for emergencies.

"I got the torch out of the toolbox to see what I was doing in the dark, but the torch wouldn't work. So I took the hammer I needed to loosen the wheel hub and waited for the headlights of the other cars to give me some light.

"It was on the Mulsanne Straight. You have to remember that the cars were doing around 190-200mph [307-325km/h] going past me, so I didn't have much time to see what I was doing. I took a swing at the wheel as a car flashed past but the head of the hammer flew off. I got back in the P4 and drove off.

"It caught fire from the sparks soon after and I jumped out and watched it eventually drift off the track and into a ditch.

"Gendarmes ran to it and flew into a panic because they couldn't see the driver. They nearly died when I walked up and tapped one of them on the shoulder."



http://www.nzherald....10568471&pnum=2

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#2 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 09:03

Hope that Keir has a long hard look at this one and asks TW to open up the infamous Chris Amon thread that was history every day until old grumpy read a few posts at the wrong time of the month :smoking:

#3 Catalina Park

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 12:13

Originally posted by Juihi

Pretty much the last time Chris Amon saw the Ferrari sports racer pictured on this page was in 1967, when he and Scotland's Jackie Stewart finished second in an endurance race in Britain.

A month or so earlier, the New Zealander had abandoned an identical car at Le Mans. He left it on fire in a ditch, surrounded by French policemen. It was midnight and Amon was out of the classic 24-hour endurance race.

Now, the Ferrari 330 P4 Amon last drove with Stewart 42 years ago goes up for sale at Ferrari's headquarters in Italy. A man from London house Sotheby's will handle the May 17 auction. Talk is chassis number 0858, one of only three P4s ever built, will fetch more than US$5 million ($9 million).

Chris Amon drove that car in Australia in 1968 for Scuderia Veloce, so I guess the last time he saw it was at Longford.

#4 Keir

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 14:42

An all time lap record with that car ?? At Longford??

Peter Revson compared the GT40's to driving a truck !!

The "famous Amon" thread, locked but still loaded.

#5 Direct Drive

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 16:30

I don't ever recall a P4 with that low sprint type windshield.

#6 Macca

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 19:45

Pictures here:
http://www.slotforum...showtopic=28998

of the three cars that ran in Can-Am with the different bodywork, and also David Piper's car (c/n 0854) that he raced with a low windscreen.

Paul M

#7 Direct Drive

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 23:12

Thanks Macca, way cool looking car. In any of its configurations one of the most beautiful of all time I think.
I recall reading some story about Didier Pironi driving one in "demo" around some track some place (some memory, eh?) and giving it memorable stick.

#8 Wirra

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 01:14

Amon at Warwick Farm and possibly Bill Brown (?) at Bathurst. Apologies for the 'Instamatic' quality.

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#9 David Shaw

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 05:08

You're right there Wirra, that'll be Brown coming around towards Reid Park.

Thanks for posting that, the first colour photo I have seen of it in the SV livery. :up:

#10 ellrosso

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 08:49

We have a few colour and some terrific b/w's of the car at Longford '68 on the oldracephotos.com website (type Ferrari P4 into the Advanced Search will bring them up). One of my all time favourite cars and the outright lap record holder at Longford by Amon in 1968 - 122 mph lap average - not bad when Bathurst was only around 100 mph average at the time!
Regards ellrosso

#11 Hieronymus

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 05:37

David Brown, kindly asked me to post this photo of the Gunston sponsered P4. Photo is courtesy and copyright of Geoff Frizell and was taken at Bulawayo.


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#12 Vicuna

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 05:41

yuk

#13 lil'chris

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 10:50

Originally posted by Direct Drive
I recall reading some story about Didier Pironi driving one in "demo" around some track some place (some memory, eh?) and giving it memorable stick.


Possibly Montlhery

#14 Tim Murray

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 11:06

Originally posted by lil'chris
Possibly Montlhery

Yes indeed. The story is (re)quoted in Nigel Roebuck's profile of Pironi in his book Grand Prix Greats. Pironi drove David Piper's P4 in a race at Montlhéry in the spring of 1982, just a week before Imola. He was very enthusiastic about the car ("I haven't enjoyed a racing car so much for years"), but broke it in the race.

#15 SEdward

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 13:16

Hieronymus,

Heavens above! How could anyone do that to a P4...

Edward

#16 Keir

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 14:29

Sacrilege !!

#17 Doug Nye

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 14:49

Not at all - it's called paying your way.

DCN

#18 sterling49

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 14:57

If this is the same car, then this is the way I last saw it, just a stunningly beautiful car, driven by two of the best, and as painted by TNF's own Andy Kitson :up:

http://www.andrewkit...pages/P4-2F.htm

#19 Bruno

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 16:20

Originally posted by Hieronymus
David Brown, kindly asked me to post this photo of the Gunston sponsered P4. Photo is courtesy and copyright of Geoff Frizell and was taken at Bulawayo.


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in 1968 at GP Rodhesia with Paul Hawkins ?
or 1969 with Alistair Walker/Widdows ?

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#20 Hieronymus

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 17:26

Re. Paul Hawkins and the Gunston sponsered P3. In the book SPRINGBOK SERIES (Greg Mills) it is said that, "Hawkins arrived in South Africa with his own Ferrari P4, purchased from David McKay's Scuderia Veloce. He was placed 1st overall in the 1968/9 Springbok series.

#21 Keir

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 14:27

Paying your way - ugly !!

#22 Tmeranda

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 15:03

Originally posted by Direct Drive
I don't ever recall a P4 with that low sprint type windshield.


This car now exists as it was rebodied for CanAm racing in North America. When it raced at Brands Hatch, it looked as per the link in Sterling49 post. AIR, only one of the orginal P4 remains bodied as in this link.

#23 David Shaw

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 20:52

Originally posted by SEdward
Hieronymus,

Heavens above! How could anyone do that to a P4...

Edward


It may to us now be one of the most beautiful cars ever built and highly desirable, but forty years ago it was a piece of expensive equipment that enabled someone to go racing, and it had to be paid for somehow.

#24 Hieronymus

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 05:36

It may to us now be one of the most beautiful cars ever built and highly desirable, but forty years ago it was a piece of expensive equipment that enabled someone to go racing, and it had to be paid for somehow.


Pukable??


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#25 gio66

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 15:24

http://wheels.blogs....124-million/?hp

#26 zoff2005

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 15:42

Was it this car that Scarfiotti drove at Mosport CanAm (I think 1967)? In which case I saw it crashing at Turn 4!
Marcus

#27 Direct Drive

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 20:10

Not at all - it's called paying your way.
DCN



How right you are. I don't recall many (althought I'm certain there were some) bitches about David Piper's bright green Ferraris

#28 scags

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 20:16

Does anyone know the reserve? 10 million or so must have been short by 4 or 5.

Edited by scags, 18 May 2009 - 20:17.


#29 MKIVJ6

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 17:38

Does anyone know the reserve? 10 million or so must have been short by 4 or 5.


I was told that the car could be bought for a hammer of 7.5e about 10 USD.
Keep in mind that a US buyer would have to pay about 22.5% above hammer to return it to the US and pay all taxes.


#30 grandprix61

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 04:07

You're right there Wirra, that'll be Brown coming around towards Reid Park.

Thanks for posting that, the first colour photo I have seen of it in the SV livery. :up:

What was the chasis number on the 350 Pedro drove in the CAN/AM in 1967 at Elkhart Lake. here is a photo of it. hope it posts. Ron N. more photos on my web site - www.prairiestreetart.com
http://img41.imagesh.../pedro96car.jpgPosted Image

#31 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 05:42

What was the chasis number on the 350 Pedro drove in the CAN/AM in 1967 at Elkhart Lake.


I think that 0860 was the chassis number on the 330 P4 Pedro drove in the Can Am in 1968 at Elkhart Lake.

Vince H.


#32 Bruno

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 11:05

yes:
1/9/68 200 miles Road America, Elkhart Lake (Canam)
Pedro Rodriguez/350 Canam Spider "0860" n° 22 13em

#33 grandprix61

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 16:06

yes:
1/9/68 200 miles Road America, Elkhart Lake (Canam)
Pedro Rodriguez/350 Canam Spider "0860" n° 22 13em

Here is another Ferrari from Elkhart. It must have been the next year. I do not have any info on the car and rather than research it out I thought I would just post for all of you to take a look at. I am sure many of you will know the car. have a lot more vintage stuff on my site. take a look.
www.prairiestreetart.com regards, Ron
http://img189.images...m0chrisamon.jpgPosted Image

#34 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 18:51

Here is another Ferrari from Elkhart. It must have been the next year. I do not have any info on the car and rather than research it out I thought I would just post for all of you to take a look at. I am sure many of you will know the car. have a lot more vintage stuff on my site. take a look.
www.prairiestreetart.com regards, Ron


Yes, I believe from 1969. The 612 which later became the 712!

31.8.1969 Can-Am Road America #16 Ferrari 612P 0866 Chris Amon DNF Fuel pump

Vince H.


#35 Ducfer

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 12:18

The 612 which later became the 712!

Although the 612P Serial #0866 ran in many different displacements, (as high as 6.9 liters), it was never the 712. The 712 is a modified 512 chassis Serial #1010 and came later. The 612 was the only car that Ferrari every built specifically for CanAm and it filled two roles for Ferrari. The first to act as a test bed for the 512 series that they needed to develop for endurance racing, the second was to race in the CanAm series, but unfortunately with little factory support. The car suffered from oil surge problems and suffered from lack of development with only one chassis to work with, whereas McLaren continued to develop their cars. Both the 612 and the 712 were at Goodwood together a few years ago.


#36 Keir

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 14:42

I often wondered how well that 612 might have gone if Ferrari really cared about the effort. What Chris and company were able to do with the Tasman Dinos should have translated into better performances in the CanAm, but as Bill Gavin, a journalist and team manager for the 612 effort, would say, "Ferrari gave his blessing and that was it."

#37 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 03:21

Although the 612P Serial #0866 ran in many different displacements, (as high as 6.9 liters), it was never the 712. The 712 is a modified 512 chassis Serial #1010 and came later. The 612 was the only car that Ferrari every built specifically for CanAm and it filled two roles for Ferrari. The first to act as a test bed for the 512 series that they needed to develop for endurance racing, the second was to race in the CanAm series, but unfortunately with little factory support. The car suffered from oil surge problems and suffered from lack of development with only one chassis to work with, whereas McLaren continued to develop their cars. Both the 612 and the 712 were at Goodwood together a few years ago.


I agree about #1010. But in James T. Crow's January 1970 Road & Track report on the 1969 Riverside Can-Am, he says "...Chris Amon finally got the long-awaited 7-liter Ferrari engine...", and the results have "...Chris Amon, Ferrari 712..."

Vince H.




#38 Ducfer

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 03:00

I agree about #1010. But in James T. Crow's January 1970 Road & Track report on the 1969 Riverside Can-Am, he says "...Chris Amon finally got the long-awaited 7-liter Ferrari engine...", and the results have "...Chris Amon, Ferrari 712..."

Vince H.



Vince:
Undoubtably the race reporter rounded up the displacement and dubbed the car the 712, before the 712 #1010 came along. Once the 712 came along, 0866 remained the 612 and the 1010 the 712. They ran together at 1971 Watkins Glen 6hr with Jim Adams in the 612 and Mario Andretti in the 712.

#39 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 05:46

Vince:
Undoubtably the race reporter rounded up the displacement and dubbed the car the 712, before the 712 #1010 came along. Once the 712 came along, 0866 remained the 612 and the 1010 the 712. They ran together at 1971 Watkins Glen 6hr with Jim Adams in the 612 and Mario Andretti in the 712.


The 1969 Riverside Can-Am program listed the car as "Ferrari T 612", 6200 cc, although we know the engine was bigger for that race, and, I think, Texas. Whatever we call it, I think my initial point was that the engine got bigger by season's end.

The 1971 Riverside Can-Am program listed the car as "Ferrari 512 Can-Am".

Vince H.






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#40 helioseism

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 01:27

Not sure if this the best place to post this, but it was the only thread with both Amon and Ferrari in the title. There is an interview with Chris Amon about his years with Ferrari in the latest issue (December 2011, No. 114) of the US magazine Forza. No mention of the car which is the original subject of this thread, but an amusing story about his experience in the 1967 Le Mans 24 Hours. The issue also contains a story about another rare Ferrari - the unique 1996 F50 GT1.

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

#41 Garsted

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:12

According to the Talacrest advertisement in the December issue of Motor Sport 0858 is for sale again : "Currently Spyder bodywork is being prepared for the car..."

I guess they think its world sportscar championship winning configuration is more desirable than its Can Am configuration. Personally, if I was shelling out the money for it I would want both sets of bodywork, the authentic Can Am and the newly made Spyder

Steve

#42 launchpad

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 10:43

Chris Amon drove that car in Australia in 1968 for Scuderia Veloce, so I guess the last time he saw it was at Longford.


The P4 was raced also at Surfers Paradise and Sandown Park in the weeks before Longford in 1968.

This pic was taken by me at Sandown and shows Chris Amon and the owner David McKay.

It aso shows the low windscreen mentioned in other posts that was different to other P4's.

Posted Image
copyright Rod Mackenzie.

Not only was it beautiful, it was fast too! providing competition for Frank Matich in his Matich SR3 which he took to the US for some Can-Am races,

#43 austmcreg

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:13

Not only was it beautiful, it was fast too!

Yes it was!

Longford March 1968. Monday morning, after Chris set off a lap down on the field following a battery failure on the grid. The road was wet from the first shower of the day, that turned into a deluge later, for the Tasman race. This is a Jim & Pat Smith photo taken from a colour print, and I think the overcast conditions, wet road and river in the background combine to give perfect lighting to highlight the car. I have had this as a screensaver for a while now. The location is coming off the Kings Bridge, taken from the old Longford pumphouse station. The 1880s railway bridge is in the background.

Posted Image

Rob Saward

#44 SJ Lambert

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:33

Oh, to have that one back at Longford for a Revival!!!!!!


#45 launchpad

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 11:58

I thought another pic might be of interest.
Chris Amon in the P4 on Pit Straight at Longford.
Not in Colour but at some speed.

Posted Image
Copyright Rod Mackenzie

Rod Mackenzie

Edited by launchpad, 01 November 2011 - 07:15.


#46 Bruno

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 17:23

please, at Sandown Park (serie Canam) 25-fév-1968.

you are Result Chris Amon/350 Canam