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#1 Vicuna

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 05:49

Not going to get into BRG discussion

But

Cooper dark green and white
BRM dark green and orange
Lotus darkish green and yellow

I've seen dark/(ish) green and red and even green and blue on an Aston Martin sports car.

But what about dark green and a lighter green on an open-wheeler. Did anyone ever run that as like a regular 'team' colour?

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#2 Giraffe

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 06:22

http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=1

When it comes to getting your greens, this thread is worth a blimp, Vicuna.............

#3 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 07:21

Interesting question .Without bragging I believe to have a good recollection on colours over many years. Neither way have I ever seen a 2 colour green team colour , whereas all other than green has been used on a green main colour. In fact the only 2 green that comes to my mind is the Lotus Bedford transporter of the 50's which was a dark and light green coloured (with white roof) , but that of course was no open wheeler.
Might Barry have one ?

#4 Barry Boor

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 07:22

The lightest green used regularly on any open-wheeler was probably on cars run by Ken Gregory's teams - whether they were entered under the name of the British Racing Partnership or Yeaman Credit.

The colour was laughingly called British Grazing Green, but it was way lighter than grass....

Grass green was a colour close to that used by Tony Marsh on his Coopers and Lotus towards the back end of the 50s and the early 60s.

As for two-tone green, I'm struggling.....

#5 ensign14

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 08:14

Gilby? Green car, Greene driver...

#6 Vicuna

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 08:43

:clap:

#7 Rob29

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 10:26

Originally posted by Vicuna
:clap:

Yep,think that is it BRG- Cooper F2 with pale green nose stripe?

#8 Stephen W

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 11:58

Originally posted by Barry Boor
The lightest green used regularly on any open-wheeler was probably on cars run by Ken Gregory's teams - whether they were entered under the name of the British Racing Partnership or Yeaman Credit.

The colour was laughingly called British Grazing Green, but it was way lighter than grass....

Grass green was a colour close to that used by Tony Marsh on his Coopers and Lotus towards the back end of the 50s and the early 60s.

As for two-tone green, I'm struggling.....


I seem to recolect that YEOMAN Credit's cars were pale green with a gold band round the nose.

Tony Marsh latterly has had a couple of his Gould hillclimb/sprint cars decked out in two-tone green but like most I am struggling to recollect a racing car from the 50s or 60s that was painted in two shades of green!

:wave:

#9 Pat Clarke

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:03

First Jordan F1??

Pat

#10 RobertE

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:49

The BRP cars were painted Mint green, which was Alfred Moss's choice, partly because they were extremely visible both on B&W telly and on the track. The Ferrari GTO and the assorted sports cars the team also ran were also the same colour. An exact match is hard to find, but Barry (in the thread just cited) has got fairly close with the Toyota shade. A bit of an eyeful. Problems with fading film stock from the time offers problems, too, but as someone else has remarked, it's not far away from the colour often used on the inside of military stuff all over the world. There's probably a bird'e egg which is spot-on. The Ferrari F1 car which Innes once drove had a band of the colour around the nose, iirc.

Lister's brief F2 effort ran in BP green and yellow (BL's sponsor's colours at the time, basically) , but legend has it that Napier was the first, probably the darkest ever. Brian maintains to this day that Lotus nicked the Lister colour scheme...

#11 alansart

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:55

The 1978 ICI Formula 2 Chevrons were at least 3 shades of green.

IIRC they were painted that way as green was a difficult colour to work with and ICI wanted to show off a bit.

#12 Odseybod

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 13:09

Just a slight aside. I was talking to the company that produced a very smart Ferrari 156 'sharknose' replica or two, which one customer wanted finished in Equipe Spa Francorchamps yellow. They told me the only way to get the correct shade of yellow was by spraying it over Ferrari red, which they claimed was how it would have been done originally, as all Ferrari Grabnd Prix cars were supplied in that colour. Spraying the correct shade of yellow over bare metal produced a distinctly 'wrong' colour.

So I wonder if the varying shades of BRP/UDT/Yeoman Credit green are all being correctly remembered, having been sprayed over different underlying colours. Having said which, I can't imagine the boys at Lotus missing the chance to save a bob or two by supplying a bare metal body - then again, not all the teams' cars came to them new or were Loti.

#13 RA Historian

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 14:13

Originally posted by Stephen W
I seem to recolect that YEOMAN Credit's cars were pale green with a gold band round the nose.

My books show the pale green (referred to as "apple green" in R&T way back then) Coopers with the nose painted red, sweeping all the way to the windscreen. This, of course, was when the BRP ran as Yeoman Credit. In 1961 Yeoman Credit took its money to Reg Parnell and his cars were dark BRG with a red stripe. BRP picked up sponsorship from UDT-Laystall and ran the cars (now mostly Lotus 18s) in the "BRP green" with a tartan plaid stripe on the nose.

It has been interesting to note all the shades of "BRG". From the light green of BRP to the very dark, seemingly mixed with gray, green of BRM. I always thought the Aston Martin green was mixed with a bit of silver to give it that distinctive Aston look.

Not to forget 1979 when Lotus changed its shade of green in mid year. They started out with a rather dark shade of green with Martini flashes along the cockpit surround. Later in the year they changed to a much lighter green with the Martini flashes now on the sidepods.

But as someone mentioned many years ago, any shade of green is BRG if it is on a race car.

Tom

#14 David McKinney

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 14:18

Originally posted by RA Historian
In 1961 Yeoman Credit took its money to Reg Parnell and his cars were dark BRG with a red stripe

I think we've discussed this before, but my clear recollection is that the Bowmaker cars were a very deep turquoise/dark blue with red noses

#15 Bauble

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 15:35

Green used to be seen as unlucky, which is why so many people went for the darkest shade possible. There used to be a fair bit of superstition in the early days of motor racing and it lingered on for a while after thhe war. You never wished anyone 'good luck', you said break a leg, boca il lupo or in German something like hallsenbrunden bach(?).
Briitish Racing Green was usually 'Sherwood Green' a mid colour and used before the darker shade was adopted by Jaguar and BRM.


Who cares if a car was two tone green? You guys do go down some blind alleys.

#16 Giraffe

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 15:48

Originally posted by Bauble



Who cares if a car was two tone green? You guys do go down some blind alleys.


Ahh, but you should never forget Bauble, that in the land of the blind, the one eye'd man is King!;)

#17 D-Type

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 16:16

To be very boring and return to the original question:

Did the Formula 1 Jaguars adopt a two-tone green livery at any time?

#18 Doug Nye

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 16:35

Works Aston Martins tended to be in more than one shade of green I have been assured - dependent upon whether or not the notably irascible paint shop foreman was in a good mood the tin got shaken either furiously, or insufficiently. Thus bonnet, boot lid, doors and fixed body panels were all liable to emerge with variably metallic shades and finishes... :smoking:

DCN

#19 markpde

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 16:41

Originally posted by Pat Clarke
First Jordan F1??

Pat

:up: Well done, Pat! I've never noticed before. These are the best photos I could find on Google to show the true colours of the 191 - lighter green on the leading edge of the front wings and the upper surface of the sidepods - not just a trick of the light.

http://www.linksheav...6/jordan191.jpg
http://farm1.static...._7d61b111d6.jpg

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#20 Barry Boor

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 16:50

Quite right! The 7-UP Jordans were green with green flashes.

And the ICI F.2 Marches were two or three shades plus white.

#21 markpde

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 16:54

Originally posted by D-Type
To be very boring and return to the original question:

Did the Formula 1 Jaguars adopt a two-tone green livery at any time?

Curiously, yes and no - a sort of hi-tech version of Doug's Aston Martins. I remember they tried BRG on the F1 Jaguars but on TV it looked black, so they resorted to a 'flip' green which altered its hue depending on the light - this time it really was a trick of the light! Not quite two-tone, though - several, just like the Astons, except all at once!

Incidentally, aircraft modellers have strived for years to replicate the 'patchwork' effect of the panels of bare metal aircraft - seems like an accurate model of the Aston Martins would have to apply the same principle with varying shades of metallic green - and no two cars would be alike! :)

#22 Twin Window

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 17:26

Originally posted by Doug Nye

Works Aston Martins tended to be in more than one shade of green I have been assured - dependent upon whether or not the notably irascible paint shop foreman was in a good mood the tin got shaken either furiously, or insufficiently.

A very similar thing used to occur on the [British] railway network, right up and into the diesel era. Not so much the panels, but locos were often out-shopped in slightly differing shades.

#23 RA Historian

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 23:10

Originally posted by David McKinney

I think we've discussed this before, but my clear recollection is that the Bowmaker cars were a very deep turquoise/dark blue with red noses

I would assume that you are right, David. My memory is based on trying to recall faded color photos from 46 or so years ago!
Tom

#24 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 06:42

Don't know about the turquoise aspect but the Coopers in 1961 and the Lolas in 1962 were most definitely dark blue.

Colour photos in, amongst other places, Roy Salvadori's autobiography confirm the fact.

#25 Rob29

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 07:14

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Don't know about the turquoise aspect but the Coopers in 1961 and the Lolas in 1962 were most definitely dark blue.

Colour photos in, amongst other places, Roy Salvadori's autobiography confirm the fact.

Afraid this is accounted by poor colour printing Barry.Works Coopers were certainly Dark Green.Yeoman Credit /Bowmaker/Reg.Parnell cars 1961-67 a bluish dark green.I was there :) Anyone seeing turquoise must be thinking of an early Brabham/MRD?

#26 David McKinney

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 08:41

I did say very dark turquoise, which has probably got another name
And I'll swear by dark blue rather than dark green - greenish dark blue rather than bluish dark green
I was there too :)

#27 ensign14

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 09:03

Originally posted by David McKinney
I did say very dark turquoise, which has probably got another name

Teal?

#28 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 09:51

There was no green in the Bowmaker blue; I am unanimous in that!

#29 Stephen W

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 11:30

Originally posted by Barry Boor
There was no green in the Bowmaker blue; I am unanimous in that!


Okay Mrs Slocombe, no need to shout. :

#30 David Beard

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 11:40

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Works Aston Martins tended to be in more than one shade of green I have been assured - dependent upon whether or not the notably irascible paint shop foreman was in a good mood the tin got shaken either furiously, or insufficiently. Thus bonnet, boot lid, doors and fixed body panels were all liable to emerge with variably metallic shades and finishes... :smoking:

DCN


I suppose the restorers today are inevitably not being very accurate then?
Whatever, I like this shade a lot...

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#31 Stephen W

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 13:17

Originally posted by David Beard
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Is that Roger on the left? :wave:

#32 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 15:44

Yes it is!

I like that colour, too, but somehow it doesn't seem quite right, but then as we now know, there is no right where Astons are concerned.

#33 Stephen W

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 15:52

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Yes it is!

I like that colour, too, but somehow it doesn't seem quite right, but then as we now know, there is no right where Astons are concerned.


But there is a left? :confused:

#34 David Beard

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 16:01

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Yes it is!

I like that colour, too, but somehow it doesn't seem quite right, but then as we now know, there is no right where Astons are concerned.


I must own up to have been messing about with the exposure settings on my shots taken in RAW format. I admit I might have gone a bit far with the side view...looks a bit gaudy. The others are reasonably true I think. Perhaps in 1959 the amount of metalic effect in the paint finish would have been a lot less striking?

The man who looks like Roger Clark appears to be up to no good, to me. I hope none of the knock off hub spinners went missing...

#35 ensign14

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 16:11

Eyeing it up like I would a weathergirl.  ;)

#36 Stephen W

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 08:12

The man who looks like Roger Clark appears to be up to no good, to me. I hope none of the knock off hub spinners went missing...


They only become knock off hub spinners once they have been nicked! :rotfl:


#37 Barry Boor

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 13:33

Subsciption post

#38 Stephen W

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 14:37

They only become knock off hub spinners once they have been nicked! :rotfl:


Just repeating this to get the Thread to show up again! :up:

#39 RobertE

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 15:31

I suppose the restorers today are inevitably not being very accurate then?
Whatever, I like this shade a lot...

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I believe the Aston racing green was known as Aqua Verde at the factory. God knows what the ICI paint code is, though...

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#40 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 17:20

I am not God , but my info says ICI M035-2629 , California Sage Green in the last years (AM212-215 ?) ((up to 1967 !))

#41 john ruston

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 06:45

Two shades of green.Works Talbot Team from 30's.31 Team cars different from 34

#42 Rob G

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 22:02

The Skoal-sponsored RAMs had three shades of green, although the lighter two greens were just accent stripes.