24 replies to this topic

[fbarrett]

Friends:

The Porsche 917/20 (known during the 24-hour race as "The Pink Pig") made its debut at the Le Mans test weekend in April 1971 and was driven in a three-hour (some say four-hour) race then and there by Willi Kauhsen (same say Gijs van Lennep co-drove). At that point, the car was white and carried number 20. My question is, how did it do in that race?

In Porsche, Excellence Was Expected, Karl Ludvigsen writes that it retired with an electrical problem. In The Racing Porsches, Paul Frere writes that it won. Other sources also disagree. Can anyone verify exactly how it finished (and who drove it)?

Incidentally, there's an interesting story about how the 917/20 later figured in the 24-hour race. Reinhold Joest was driving when it crashed while about to go into the lead. He said that under braking at Arnage, the car suddenly turned right into the guard rail, but nobody believed him, and he was blamed.

Years later, Gerry Sutterfield restored the car for the factory museum. When he disassembled it, he found that the right front brake pads were down to bare metal and showed evidence of having welded themselves to the brake rotor. Porsche had fixed the body for display but had never done a full restoration, so they didn't notice that. Gerry discovered the evidence of the brake problem. Evidently what led to the problem was that no one realized that with its lower aerodynamic drag, the 917/20 took more brake effort to slow it. Consequently it used up pads sooner than the other cars.

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 01 May 2009 - 15:53.

[Duc-Man]

According to this website (http://wspr-racing.c.../porsche917.htm) did the car run in a 3 hour race on April 18...and didn't finish.

I was also wondering about this obviously unknown race because I saw a model of the car listed somewhere on the sit of a model-car company(it's listed as Le Mans 6h race there). And what I point out above is all I could find out.

Anybody any info?

[Jan Holmskov]

The german race commentator and journalist Rainer Braun has written two excellent books with stories on mainly german racing drivers and motorsport. The titles are Hallo Fahrerlager 1 and 2 and the text is in german.

In volume 2 there is a chapter on the "Pink Pig" or "Dicke Bertha" in german.

According to Rainer Braun, Willy Kauhsen and Gijs van Lennep raced the car in a 4 hour race 6 weeks before the 24 h Le Mans. They started from pole and led by 2 laps after 3 hours. Kauhsen is quoted saying that van Lennep then twice overlooked a signal to pit for fuel and the car ran out of fuel...

Rainer Braun managed Stefan Bellof, played an important role in Michael Schumacher's early career, was close to Rindt and was offered to manage Keke Rosberg.

In Vol 2 there is also a chapter on how Kurt Ahrens and Willy Kauhsen both crashed Porsche 917s on the VW test track. Both were lucky to survive. In vol 1 there is a hilarious story of how Willy Kauhsen took the german Bundespresident Dr Gustav Heinemann on a lap of the old Nuerburgring in a 1000 hp Porsche 917 despite snow on the track.

There are chapters on von Hanstein, Carlo Abarth (very revealing and entertaining), Rindt, Fittipaldi, Norbert Haug and many more personalities.

The books are very well written and very entertaining. I cannot recommend them enough if you can read german. Unfortunately vol. 1 is sold out. A volume 3 will be published later this year. See his website www.hallo-fahrerlager.de

Edited by Jan Holmskov, 01 May 2009 - 18:31.

[fbarrett]

Jan:

Thank you. One of the sources did say that the car ran out of fuel...

Frank

[markpde]

...In volume 2 there is a chapter on the "Pink Pig" or "Dicke Bertha" in german.

According to Rainer Braun, Willy Kauhsen and Gijs van Lennep raced the car in a 4 hour race 6 weeks before the 24 h Le Mans. They started from pole and led by 2 laps after 3 hours. Kauhsen is quoted saying that van Lennep then twice overlooked a signal to pit for fuel and the car ran out of fuel...

In Vol 2 there is also a chapter on how Kurt Ahrens and Willy Kauhsen both crashed Porsche 917s on the VW test track. Both were lucky to survive. In vol 1 there is a hilarious story of how Willy Kauhsen took the german Bundespresident Dr Gustav Heinemann on a lap of the old Nuerburgring in a 1000 hp Porsche 917 despite snow on the track...

To illustrate Jan's post: a nice photo (if there is such a thing...) of the 917/20 at the Le Mans test weekend (it's also in Paul Frère's 'The Racing Porsches'



Two photos of Kurt Ahrens' catastrophic crash in 917.040 at the VW test track - a miracle he survived without serious injury...





Lastly, Willi Kauhsen with his 917/10 at a snowy Nürburgring!

[MCS]

Lastly, Willi Kauhsen with his 917/10 at a snowy Nürburgring!

This must rank as one of the maddest pictures I've seen on here in quite some time!

[markpde]

This must rank as one of the maddest pictures I've seen on here in quite some time!

According to Jan's post, it sounds as if it was as mad as it looks - the Bundespresident evidently wasn't your typical 'stuffed shirt' politician!

[Jan Holmskov]

Thanks for posting the photos. The story of Kauhsen on the old ring in the snow is great.

The Bundespresident Heinemann visited all the german states during the last year of his presidency in 1973. He was 74 years old. On the visit to Rheinland-Pfalz he had expressed the wish to be taken around the ring in a really powerful and fast racing car, the Porsche 917 Turbo. The drive took place on April 3.

The story was told to Rainer Braun by Willy Kauhsen

The security people were worried, Mrs Heinemann terrified, but the Bundespresident was excited and determined that the ride should take place as planned. He was put in the car as he arrived at the track. In his suit and winter coat and with Kauhsens spare helmet. Kauhsen was told not to take any risks.

A vehicle with 6 armed security people (sitting or standing on the side boards) was sent out on the track 10 min in advance. At one of the highest points of the trach there was quite a bit of snow on the track and Kauhsen did a 360 deg spin without hitting anything or stalling and Heinemann hardly seemed notice it. Shortly afterwards they had to slow down because the security vehicle had crashed and the people were collecting their guns from the track. On the final straight Kauhsen took the Porsche up to 270 km/h.

According to Kauhsen the lap was done in about 12 min 30 sec. and Dr Heinemann was very grateful and happy!


Jan

[Doug Nye]

Would that Willibald still had the car, the snow was still down and the passenger list included our current Prime Minister...and his cabinet. Not, you understand, that by temperament I am at all malicious...

DCN

[sterling49]

Would that Willibald still had the car, the snow was still down and the passenger list included our current Prime Minister...and his cabinet. Not, you understand, that by temperament I am at all malicious...

DCN

Wonder if it can pull a seated trailer too?

[h4887]

Lastly, Willi Kauhsen with his 917/10 at a snowy Nürburgring!

Must have been the inspiration for this
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=xv4ova8VYeo

[markpde]

Must have been the inspiration for this
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=xv4ova8VYeo

Everything goes round in circles - I posted that video on the 'Lost Porsche 917' thread (024, the 917 represented in the video, 'won' the Le Mans movie; it followed Seppi's hearse at his funeral, was lost for years then turned up to be restored recently). I also recently posted the sequel - 'The White Hell 2' - on the 'YouTube' thread. Quite possibly was the inspiration, right enough - these videos are so inspired - you couldn't make it up.

Edited by markpde, 03 May 2009 - 01:18.

[markpde]

Incidentally, there's an interesting story about how the 917/20 later figured in the 24-hour race. Reinhold Joest was driving when it crashed while about to go into the lead. He said that under braking at Arnage, the car suddenly turned right into the guard rail, but nobody believed him, and he was blamed.

Years later, Gerry Sutterfield restored the car for the factory museum. When he disassembled it, he found that the right front brake pads were down to bare metal and showed evidence of having welded themselves to the brake rotor. Porsche had fixed the body for display but had never done a full restoration, so they didn't notice that. Gerry discovered the evidence of the brake problem. Evidently what led to the problem was that no one realized that with its lower aerodynamic drag, the 917/20 took more brake effort to slow it. Consequently it used up pads sooner than the other cars.

Frank

Frank: I'm convinced that's the true story, although there's another thread on here (can't find it just now) where a TNF member was talking to Willi Kauhsen at the Goodwood Festival of Speed and either Kauhsen wasn't aware of Gerry Sutterfield's findings or else he didn't believe them, however the evidence speaks for itself. Of course, race reports suggested Joest 'butchered' it, but I suppose that's inevitable!

I've always wondered how Willi Kauhsen felt about the livery applied for the race - I've seen a photo of him in the pits, looking seriously disgruntled as the Porsche stylists are putting the finishing touches to the 'butcher's diagram'. Story is that the Porsche styling department had submitted its own proposal for the project, which was to design a short-tail 917 with the low drag of the long-tail but without the length, and although its submission was supposedly more successful, it was rejected for 'political reasons' - the eventual, actual 917/20 was submitted by SERA, responsible for the Long-tail - so the Pink Pig livery was the styling department's revenge!

Fact is, even though Norbert Singer suggests, "It was not a very good car and was never going to win, although it got a lot of publicity," as you point out, with a clear run it could have won. It was up with 053, the eventual winner, when it crashed out; you have to wonder, given its comical colour scheme, how that would have gone down, in history or anywhere else!

Incidentally (you'll know this if you've got the book, but I found it quite incredible), Norbert Singer explains and illustrates in 24:16 that the wind tunnel Porsche used then, located in a shed and affiliated to Stuttgart University, was seriously flawed. It was used to test scale models of full-size aircraft as well as cars, so the cars were suspended on aerofoil-section wooden planks from the ceiling by cables; it therefore took little account of ground clearance (although the mimimum clearance in the Le Mans regulations then was quite high - 100mm). Years later, as was suspected from extensive track test results at the time, it was established that the aerodynamics - not just the drag (or lack of), but also the downforce - of the 1971 917LH (and probably, by association, the 917/20) were far superior to what the old wind tunnel figures suggested. My theory is that the downforce lowered the ride height, which increased the downforce further and lessened the drag - the best of both worlds, up to a point - an effect which would barely have shown up in the wind tunnel, given its limitations. That's just a theory, though - what would I know? Anyone on here who's better qualified (there must be lots!) wish to comment?

Edited by markpde, 03 May 2009 - 15:34.

[fbarrett]

I'm convinced that's the true story, although there's another thread on here (can't find it just now) where a TNF member was talking to Willi Kauhsen at the Goodwood Festival of Speed and either Kauhsen wasn't aware of Gerry Sutterfield's findings or else he didn't believe them, however the evidence speaks for itself.

Mark:

Thanks for the information. Gerry himself has told me that story twice, and he should know because he restored the car for Porsche. He's a great guy and a real historian. The info you present is much appreciated, but I'm still trying to confirm the true results of that April 1971 race...

Frank

[proviz]

Mark:

Thanks for the information. Gerry himself has told me that story twice, and he should know because he restored the car for Porsche. He's a great guy and a real historian. The info you present is much appreciated, but I'm still trying to confirm the true results of that April 1971 race...

Frank

The race (3 hrs) was won by Claude Ballot-Lena - Guy Chasseuil in a Porsche 908 from Guy Ligier in his JS3. Kauhsen started 917/20 and easily led away. Van Lennep took over after the first hour and after a while lapped the rest of the field, but then the car stopped with suspected ignition failure at Arnage.

[markpde]

Mark:

Thanks for the information. Gerry himself has told me that story twice, and he should know because he restored the car for Porsche. He's a great guy and a real historian. The info you present is much appreciated, but I'm still trying to confirm the true results of that April 1971 race...

Frank

Cheers, Frank. I'd already come across the story in Peter Morgan's Porsche 917 book, it's entirely convincing, and since you know Gerry Sutterfield personally you've heard it at first hand (twice!) - I'm just a punter. Sorry if the thread went off at a tangent.

(Incidentally, concerning 917 restorations, here's someone else you'll know, Kevin Jeanette, currently in the process of restoring 917.012 - epic stuff! I expect you've been following it, but for anyone else who hasn't: http://kevinshands.blogspot.com/. There's a link to a YouTube video at the end of each post - absolutely intriguing.)

proviz's post will have helped with the story of the test weekend race, although there appear to be conflicting versions of events (as is often the case!) - hope you confirm the true results.

Edited by markpde, 04 May 2009 - 12:24.

[fbarrett]

The race (3 hrs) was won by Claude Ballot-Lena - Guy Chasseuil in a Porsche 908 from Guy Ligier in his JS3. Kauhsen started 917/20 and easily led away. Van Lennep took over after the first hour and after a while lapped the rest of the field, but then the car stopped with suspected ignition failure at Arnage.

Proviz:

Thanks. What's the source of that information?

Frank

[proviz]

Proviz:

Thanks. What's the source of that information?

Frank

That's based on info from Autosport, which was the easiest contemporary source to dig out from the piles of mags stacked away. Haven't had the time yet to check from Motor, but it would be surprising if they had clashing results. In the next few days I'm also going to look at l'Automobile, which most likely has a report by Christian Moity.
Something which may have confused the issue in April 1971 was the fact that Georg Loos - Franz Pesch (Ferrari 512M)actually ran one lap longer than the winners, but ran out of fuel, so never reached the flag....

[Henri Greuter]

Mark:

Thanks for the information. Gerry himself has told me that story twice, and he should know because he restored the car for Porsche. He's a great guy and a real historian. The info you present is much appreciated, but I'm still trying to confirm the true results of that April 1971 race...

Frank

That 3 hours race was in fact the only ever occasion when a Porsche 908 won an event at Le Mans. Several 908's were entered over the years at le Mans and in other events and the 908 is rated as a fairy successfull Porsche.
But at Le Mans....

Porsche 908....

Peugeot 908....

Anyone awake over there in Sochaux????



Henri

[HEROS]

During the 3 hours race, Willy Kauhsen made the fastest lap with the 917/20 in 3'21''7 and at the 28th lap the car was DNF because of an ignition failure.

[SEdward]

I have never understood why this car - and other variants of the 917 - have been described as ugly. I think the they look fabulous. There is something brutish and brutal about them that inspires awe, almost fear.

I admire the men who actually sat behind the wheel of this beast at Le Mans.

Edward

[markpde]

I'm with you there, Edward. Doug Nye posted this photo of the 917/20, taken at the 1971 test weekend (possibly during the 3 hour race), in this thread:

Copyright: The GP Library

[fbarrett]

Friends:

An inquiry to Joest Racing brought forth more details. Reinhold Joest was not at the Le Mans trials that year (he drove this car in just the race), but his office contacted "some people who had worked for Porsche in those days" and were told that the first stint was driven by Willi Kauhsen, and the second stint by Gijs van Lennep. Shortly before end of the race, the 917/20 stopped due to a problem with an electrical part, the Zündabsteller, evidently the ignition switch or cut-off? (I'm unable to translate it.) Because this was van Lennep's first time in the car (!), he didn't know how to deal with the situation, so the car retired while leading.

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 16 May 2009 - 19:50.

[wolf sun]

Thanks for posting the photos. The story of Kauhsen on the old ring in the snow is great.

The Bundespresident Heinemann visited all the german states during the last year of his presidency in 1973. He was 74 years old. On the visit to Rheinland-Pfalz he had expressed the wish to be taken around the ring in a really powerful and fast racing car, the Porsche 917 Turbo. The drive took place on April 3.

The story was told to Rainer Braun by Willy Kauhsen

The security people were worried, Mrs Heinemann terrified, but the Bundespresident was excited and determined that the ride should take place as planned. He was put in the car as he arrived at the track. In his suit and winter coat and with Kauhsens spare helmet. Kauhsen was told not to take any risks.

A vehicle with 6 armed security people (sitting or standing on the side boards) was sent out on the track 10 min in advance. At one of the highest points of the trach there was quite a bit of snow on the track and Kauhsen did a 360 deg spin without hitting anything or stalling and Heinemann hardly seemed notice it. Shortly afterwards they had to slow down because the security vehicle had crashed and the people were collecting their guns from the track. On the final straight Kauhsen took the Porsche up to 270 km/h.

According to Kauhsen the lap was done in about 12 min 30 sec. and Dr Heinemann was very grateful and happy!


Jan

Funnily enough, Heinemann´s successor Walter Scheel had a chart hit, singing "Hoch auf dem gelben Wagen" (Up on the yellow carriage) - I wonder if this was in any way inspired by his predecessor´s Porsche exploits...

[wolf sun]

As an aside, here's the whole Kauhsen/Heinemann story (for those who speak German) - and well funny it is, too:

 

http://www.zwischeng...Nrburgring fuhr