Jump to content


Photo

Cobra Ferrari Wars (UK TV)


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Neil Smith

Neil Smith
  • New Member

  • 29 posts
  • Joined: July 03

Posted 14 May 2009 - 20:51

HI

just noticed that the above-named programme is being shown on BBC4 in the UK at 19:00 on this coming Saturday, the 16th. I can't find any mention of this on TNF.

Some info on the BBC website:

"The date is 1959. The place is Le Mans racing circuit, France. A little known Texan racing driver, Carrol Shelby, wins the most prestigious event in motor racing at his first attempt and is universally acclaimed as one of the best drivers in the world.

But Shelby had a secret that was to prevent him ever driving again.

This is the comeback story of a man driven by the desire to beat the world on the race track, and specifically to beat the might of motor racing, Ferrari. From his base in California with only a team of hot rodders for support, in three years Shelby put together a car that would take on the world and win. The Shelby Cobra, as it was known, is still an automotive icon today.

Featuring a great 60s soundtrack and using true-to-the-period split screen effects, this film is for car fans and casual viewers alike."

Director: Richard Symons
Producer :Richard Symons
Executive Producer: Hamish Barbour

Repeated Sun 17 May 200903:15BBC Four

Anyone have any more info on this programme?

cheers

Neil




Advertisement

#2 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,216 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 14 May 2009 - 21:05

It's been shown several times since 2002:

Cobra Ferrari Wars - BBC 4 Monday June 17th

#3 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,022 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 14 May 2009 - 21:36

HI

just noticed that the above-named programme is being shown on BBC4 in the UK at 19:00 on this coming Saturday, the 16th. I can't find any mention of this on TNF.

Some info on the BBC website:

"The date is 1959. The place is Le Mans racing circuit, France. A little known Texan racing driver, Carrol Shelby, wins the most prestigious event in motor racing at his first attempt and is universally acclaimed as one of the best drivers in the world.

~

Apart from 1954 that is ;)

Edited by D-Type, 14 May 2009 - 21:37.


#4 Dale Harvey

Dale Harvey
  • Member

  • 272 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 14 May 2009 - 22:08

The Cobra Ferrari Wars is available on DVD as a two disc set.

Dale.

#5 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,568 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 16 May 2009 - 17:12

Bump;
Tonight 7pm BBC4
RL

#6 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,314 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 16 May 2009 - 17:40

Based upon a false premise of course. In period the contest which MATTERED was the Ford-Ferrari 'war'...the GT title chase was very small beer in comparison... The Shelby faction has been hyping this distortion for years now.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 16 May 2009 - 17:40.


#7 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 16 May 2009 - 19:09

...as reflected by the 'facts' that the SWB took the first three places at Le Mans in 1960 and the GTO did the same in 1962

Something else I learned tonight was that the Tojeiro-framed AC Ace first appeared in 1942...

#8 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,811 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 16 May 2009 - 19:35

Some great footage, did I see an Jimmy in the Sebring shot in the Cortina? Shelby were obviously fighting for the GT class, but at the end of the film, I did wonder if any casual observers might think the Shelby Cobras had won the '64 race overall. They were great cars though, regularly saw Gentleman Jack, Bob Bondurant, Roger Mac and co. at Brands :up:

#9 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 5,726 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 17 May 2009 - 10:05

First time I had seen it . Very misleading I thought to the uninitiated viewer. The intention it seems was to make you believe that a Cobra was an American car and that it went on to win the Le Mans 24hr race outright, which was not the case on both counts.

Completely unnecessary to so over-egg the story. An objective analysis of events at that time would have been quite impressive enough.
Robbie Coltrane was even made to try to adopt a pseudo American accent and pronunciation. Scotsmen in a Scottish production do not pronounce 'Coupe' 'Coop' ( in Britain that is something hens live in ) Too many people interviewed now it seems at this distance believing their own mythology

Had it been an American narrator that would have been perfectly acceptable. I can only think it was made for sales in the US and not intended to be sold in Europe at the time.

Lots of very interesting archive footage , spoiled for me by poor (at best ) story telling.
We have had some really excellent motor racing documentaries on TV in the last few years this one for me was disappointing lacking clarity and objectivity.

#10 retriever

retriever
  • Member

  • 392 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 17 May 2009 - 10:15

My recollection of the programme is that it was like a number of similar one-off documentaries - too long! Thirty minutes of relevant material padded and dragged out into a 60 minute saga.

#11 RCH

RCH
  • Member

  • 791 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 17 May 2009 - 10:50

Based upon a false premise of course. In period the contest which MATTERED was the Ford-Ferrari 'war'...the GT title chase was very small beer in comparison... The Shelby faction has been hyping this distortion for years now.

DCN


Glad to see you making this point Doug, I have felt like a lone voice crying in the wilderness when I've written to various glossy mags pointing out that their articles on "Cobra v. Ferrari" are grossly inaccurate. I get particularly annoyed to read that Shelby's "small" team (which was nevertheless capable of employing the likes of Dan Gurney and Phil Hill!) was taking on the full might of the Ferrari "works" team in the GT championship. As I recall the only person who cared a fig for the GT Championship was Carroll Shelby, certainly Ferrari rarely entered works GTOs, relying usually on local privateers.



#12 HistoricMustang

HistoricMustang
  • Member

  • 4,076 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 17 May 2009 - 19:00

Fifteen minutes or so here:

http://historicmusta...x...&thread=544

http://historicmusta...x...&thread=545

Henry :wave:

#13 ianselva

ianselva
  • Member

  • 249 posts
  • Joined: December 05

Posted 20 May 2009 - 17:39

First time I had seen it . Very misleading I thought to the uninitiated viewer. The intention it seems was to make you believe that a Cobra was an American car and that it went on to win the Le Mans 24hr race outright, which was not the case on both counts.

I was there that year and I'm sure the Cobra was staggering along on less than 8 cylinders for most of the Sunday as I recall. Does that ring true or is the memory playing up again ?

#14 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,811 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 20 May 2009 - 17:44

They said an oil cooler pipe broke, they by-passed the cooler and then the oil ran incredibly hot, so they limped home, amazed that they finished, but no mention of a misfire (but it could have had one :) )

#15 David Wright

David Wright
  • Member

  • 79 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 20 May 2009 - 22:31

I was there that year and I'm sure the Cobra was staggering along on less than 8 cylinders for most of the Sunday as I recall. Does that ring true or is the memory playing up again ?


Perhaps you are thinking of 1965?

General comment not aimed at ianselva. While I fully accept Doug's point that the Prototype championship was the one which really mattered, I'm not convinced Ferrari took no interest in the GT Championship - at least in 1964. In 1965 he certainly took his bat home which you can either interpret as a lack of interest or acceptance of defeat. I just think that the 1964 Monza race being cancelled and his anger that the FIA didn't homologate the 250 LM as a GT indicate that he did have some interest in the 1964 GT Championship.

Edited by David Wright, 20 May 2009 - 22:47.


#16 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 21 May 2009 - 06:29

I just think that the 1964 Monza race being cancelled and his anger that the FIA didn't homologate the 250 LM as a GT indicate that he did have some interest in the 1964 GT Championship.

...as a sales outlet :)


#17 RCH

RCH
  • Member

  • 791 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:57

Perhaps you are thinking of 1965?

General comment not aimed at ianselva. While I fully accept Doug's point that the Prototype championship was the one which really mattered, I'm not convinced Ferrari took no interest in the GT Championship - at least in 1964. In 1965 he certainly took his bat home which you can either interpret as a lack of interest or acceptance of defeat. I just think that the 1964 Monza race being cancelled and his anger that the FIA didn't homologate the 250 LM as a GT indicate that he did have some interest in the 1964 GT Championship.


The 1964 Coppa Inter Europa at Monza was not cancelled, this is one of the myths that surrounds Shelby and the GT championship. The Italian authorities had been embarassed in 1963 when Roy Salvadori won it in an Aston Martin. They were further embarassed when having promised Ferrari that the 250LM would be homologated it wasn't. Consequently they were lukewarm from the start about running a race for larger GT cars. The event was listed for the GT championship up to 2-litres but there was only ever a possibility of a race for bigger cars. Presumably because of this it was never seriously regarded as an over 2-litre GT round. When they were sure that Shelby wouldn't be putting in an entry then a non-championship race for GTs and prototypes was run which was won by Vaccarella from Salvadori and Piper all in 250LMs. The source of this information is from Denis Jenkinson in Motor Sport, October (?) 1964. Quite an authoratitive source I would have thought.

During 1961 the view was for a while that with the end of the World Sportscar Championship all the "classic" events from 1962 on would be for GT cars only. As we now know the organisers of those events got together to devise the prototype rules. I suspect that the prospect of a "GT only" Le Mans was the inspiration behind the "Low drag" E Type coupe and possibly what became the P212 Aston. Whatever Ferrari felt, as he usually did, that he had to cover all the bases so he devised the GTO for '62 which was a large step forward when you consider that the car to beat was a Ferrari anyway, the 250GT SWB. Ferrari's main interest here was that he hoped he could sell lots of GTOs to privateers.

When the Prototype Championship evolved in 1962 the GT series came to be considered second rate, particularly as it included hill climbs and the T de F. Nevertheless Ferrari needed to be seen as supporting it because he could sell cars that way. Come the end of 1963 Ferrari no doubt saw that given a bit of factory involvement Jaguar, Aston Martin and Cobra could all beat his GT privateers which presumably meant that they may be tempted to buy elsewhere so he tried to homologate the 250LM. At one stroke not only was he making his competitors obsolete he was also making sure that his faithful customers would have to buy a new car. When this was not be I guess he did what he could to ensure the private entrants success but not at the risk of damaging his Prototype and F1 campaigns. So far as I am aware the only factory GT entry Ferrari ever made was the Parkes/Guichet GTO at the 'Ring in 1964. Could this have been because of Lindner's performance the previous year? It has long puzzled me.