Jump to content


Photo

One-make racing


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 NanningF1fan

NanningF1fan
  • Member

  • 61 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 17 May 2009 - 10:12

Some people think that the plethora of one make racing has ruined modern race meetings. But I am not so sure. For one thing the concept is not all that modern. According to Bill Boddy in his history of Brooklands the first ever one make race was for Sizaire Naudin 10hp cars. Anyone remember them? Probably not; it happened in 1907!

Even some of the more modern series surely count as nostalgic by now. I never saw the Escort Mexico Championship which kicked off the modern one make saloon car era. But I have a lot of happy memories of the Renault 5TS, Ford Fiesta, Metro, Honda CRX, Rover 216 and Renault Clio series of the 1980s. These series always seemed to have the same front runners. People like David Carvell, Paul Taft, Dave Loudoun, Andy Ackerley et al seemed to migrate like a flock of birds from one series to another. But what happened to them? Does anybody know where they are now?

There were also other less successful series. Does anyone remember Saab 900s trying, not very successfully, to imitate racing cars? The VW Polo G40 series fared little better. Neither did the VW Beetle Cup despite a horrendous bill for wrecked cars. Of course some of the cars from these defunct series were brought together in more varied club racing cataegories.

Which was your favourite series/driver/ memory?

Edited by NanningF1fan, 17 May 2009 - 10:17.


Advertisement

#2 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 5,768 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 17 May 2009 - 12:01

My favorite one make series would be the HQ Holdens in Australia.

My favorite driver would have been this bloke...
Posted Image

My favorite memory was this day...
Posted Image

#3 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 17 May 2009 - 13:41

Some people think that the plethora of one make racing has ruined modern race meetings. But I am not so sure. For one thing the concept is not all that modern. According to Bill Boddy in his history of Brooklands the first ever one make race was for Sizaire Naudin 10hp cars. Anyone remember them? Probably not; it happened in 1907!

I'm pretty sure there was a Mors "one-make" race in 1899! Other than that, I think it's fairly insignificant whether one-make races have ruined only modern race meetings, or if they have done so since the beginning of time - fact remains, they bore me stiff. :down:

#4 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 17 May 2009 - 14:13

I have a lot of happy memories of the Renault 5TS, Ford Fiesta, Metro, Honda CRX, Rover 216 and Renault Clio series of the 1980s. These series always seemed to have the same front runners. People like David Carvell, Paul Taft, Dave Loudoun, Andy Ackerley et al seemed to migrate like a flock of birds from one series to another

Which to me sums up why I have never liked one-make racing
Why have a race - or worse, a series - for the same guys racing Fiestas, Metros and Clios?
Half a dozen one-make series in any one year means, on the assumption of 10 rounds each, at least 50 races for other (multi-make) classes that won't take place that year


#5 john aston

john aston
  • Member

  • 841 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 17 May 2009 - 16:35

One make racing is usualy pants - although I enjoyed 29 MX5s dicing at Croft earlier today.I saw the Mexico series and it was a lighthearted crash and bumpfest,as were most of the rest, apart from the legendary Proton Coupe cup which was possibly the dullest thing I have ever seen.

But 2 exceptions to the norm- Procars (what is not to like about 475 bhp sportscars being ragged silly by World class drivers eh ?).And TVR Tuscans- insanely overpowered for the grip and brakes and quite asight around Cadwell before they misbehaved so much they were no longer invited.Maybe it was the massive startline shunt with bodywork flying into the crowd ?

#6 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 17 May 2009 - 19:12

(what is not to like about 475 bhp sportscars being ragged silly by World class drivers eh ?).

They all look and sound alike?

#7 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 6,249 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:18

Unfortunatly one make series are generally crash fests as all the cars are similar. Lots of cheats too normally in the quest for miniscule gains.
I raced HQ Holdens a few times very early on and sustained more damage than in any other racing over 25 years including Rallycross. And they were still slow and boring!! Though a HQ is bloody fast for the limited modificatios allowed, a good one is faster than a strong roadgoing A9X around Mallala!

#8 dbw

dbw
  • Member

  • 993 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 18 May 2009 - 06:08

as i recall ettore bugatti had a race for just customers with his type 35s....

#9 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 5,742 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 18 May 2009 - 06:27

The difference is that in the 60s and 70s there was just one or at most 2 races on a 10 race programme of one make, maybe Minis etc .
Now racedays are dominated by one make races, all, or nearly all the races , drivers are in identical cars, which takes away all the technical interest and the inter-marque rivalry which was the whole point of motor racing being started in the first place.

How popular would Le Mans the World Rally Championship and Grand Prix racing be if they were all make ?

Edited by RTH, 18 May 2009 - 06:29.


#10 Andrew Kitson

Andrew Kitson
  • Member

  • 2,535 posts
  • Joined: July 03

Posted 18 May 2009 - 06:43

The difference is that in the 60s and 70s there was just one or at most 2 races on a 10 race programme of one make, maybe Minis etc .
Now racedays are dominated by one make races, all, or nearly all the races , drivers are in identical cars, which takes away all the technical interest and the inter-marque rivalry which was the whole point of motor racing being started in the first place.


Richard, that is true enough if you go to a BTCC or a BARC Dunlop 'Best of British' race meeting, but far from the truth at a lot of other UK race meetings. There is still huge variety and some of the 'one make' racing is fantastic fun and entertainment - think Lotus Elise Trophy ( 45 entries at Brands 2 weeks ago ) or the Caterham classes. Some of the finest yet cleanest racing I have ever seen involves Caterhams (although they can turn into thugs occasionally!). Despite the state of the economy, there are still some big grids out there, one make or not, although a few classes have suffered.


#11 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,139 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:06

One aspect of the growth of one make racing is the loss of club racing as a training ground for the next generation of racing car designers (think 750 Formula and Formula Ford). A college course followed by, say, developing the optimum aerodynamic design for the wing mirror of a Formula 1 car doesn't teach the basic engineering feel that's needed.

#12 john aston

john aston
  • Member

  • 841 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 18 May 2009 - 18:24

They all look and sound alike?

Well ,in an absolute sense yes but if you had seen them bumping and grinding around Donington I think you might have put up with it!

#13 Phil Rainford

Phil Rainford
  • Member

  • 5,290 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 18 May 2009 - 18:41

Don't think there is any doubt that one make racing provides close exciting racing.

However both to create interest and a spectacle the more variation there is on the grid the better :)

PAR

#14 Gregor Marshall

Gregor Marshall
  • Member

  • 1,249 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 18 May 2009 - 21:21

Debenhams Escorts, Talbort Horizons, Renault 5s, Ford Consul GTs, Excort Mexicos, Mini Miglias, Ford P100s, Saab 900 Turbos, TVR Tuscans, Multisports 2000, Caterham Vauxhalls, Pro-Sport 3000, Formula Classics and that's juat my late Dad was involved in and not mentioning the big Ford, Rover and VW championships!! There was various one-make one-off races too - all good fun.

Some one-make stuff was a little boring but the Mexicos, Tuscans and Caterhmas were great series but maybe some did promote bad driving - was tghe only way to get passed people, nudging them off, just like the BTCC now!!

Edited by Gregor Marshall, 18 May 2009 - 21:22.


#15 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 19 May 2009 - 07:05

Well ,in an absolute sense yes but if you had seen them bumping and grinding around Donington I think you might have put up with it!

Not wanting to prolong an argument here, but one of my pet hates about touring car racing is the constant bumping and grinding... one make touring car racing is about as bad as it gets! And yes, I've seen Procar races in their time...

#16 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,424 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 19 May 2009 - 08:30

100% on your side, fines... 100%...

Let people get into racing and get on with racing in established and more traditional classes. Leave this stuff to the boy racers on the streets.

#17 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,843 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 19 May 2009 - 08:40

The difference is that in the 60s and 70s there was just one or at most 2 races on a 10 race programme of one make, maybe Minis etc .
Now racedays are dominated by one make races, all, or nearly all the races , drivers are in identical cars, which takes away all the technical interest and the inter-marque rivalry which was the whole point of motor racing being started in the first place.

How popular would Le Mans the World Rally Championship and Grand Prix racing be if they were all make ?


Totally agree. Back in the day the Metros or Minis were an interesting diversion within the programme. Now supporting the BTCC - arguably the pinnacle of British Motorsport - we have Porsches, Ginettas, Clios and Formula Renault all one make/chassis racing! What does this say about the industry in the UK?

:|




#18 Andrew Kitson

Andrew Kitson
  • Member

  • 2,535 posts
  • Joined: July 03

Posted 19 May 2009 - 08:52

Now supporting the BTCC - arguably the pinnacle of British Motorsport - we have Porsches, Ginettas, Clios and Formula Renault all one make/chassis racing! What does this say about the industry in the UK?

:|

What it says is that those manufacturers of these one make series, have to pay the meeting organisers (BARC/TOCA) to have their products racing on the BTCC bill, infront of arguably the biggest crowds at national race meetings and to have their races shown live on ITV4. All about money as usual.


#19 Phil Rainford

Phil Rainford
  • Member

  • 5,290 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:08

What it says is that those manufacturers of these one make series, have to pay the meeting organisers (BARC/TOCA) to have their products racing on the BTCC bill, infront of arguably the biggest crowds at national race meetings and to have their races shown live on ITV4. All about money as usual.


Quite right Andy......for real progress in both development and PR surely the Car Manufacturer's need to be competing against their rivals

Look at Le Mans this year the battle between Peugeot and Audi will be immense

PAR

Advertisement

#20 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,869 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:16

But the flipside is one-make racing usually keeps it far more affordable. Very few series can survive in an open format. Even those tend to heavily favour one make/chassis/engine over another just for competitive reasons.

One-make racing is the result of the cost of racing far outgrowing it's commercial value.

#21 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,843 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:56

But the flipside is one-make racing usually keeps it far more affordable. Very few series can survive in an open format. Even those tend to heavily favour one make/chassis/engine over another just for competitive reasons.

One-make racing is the result of the cost of racing far outgrowing it's commercial value.


I agree that spiralling costs are a problem however once on the treadmill of a one-make series it isn't that cheap to move on.

:wave: