16 replies to this topic

[mike toro]

Hello everyone. I'm a history buff and new found racing fan. I've been reading on the first Indy race and have found something of a mystery: the 8th place finisher W. H. Turner.

There's almost no information on him save his nickname "Wild Bill" and a questionable birth date and place in his wiki. Looking through old newspapers, only a few Maxwell ads from 1915 come up. I'd really like to know more about him. He had to be a character with the nickname Wild Bill, but was it because of his driving style, his drinking, his penchant for fight -- like the other more famous other Wild Bills -- or what ???

I've been lurking here for a few weeks now and found lots of interesting information. Many thanks

[fines]

Hello Mike, and welcome!

"Wild Bill" was a nickname virtually every racing driver with the first name "William" got by the press in those days - quite annoying, in fact, and not only for the researcher! Of Bill Cummings, for instance, it has been said that he absolutely detested the moniker, yet there was nary an article on him not mentioning it. What can you do?

On William Turner, the Indianapolis Star had this on him to say on the eve of the big race:

"Wild Bill Turner was born in Buffalo, N. Y., age 34, weight 160.
W. H. Turner, or better known as Wild Bill Turner, began his automobile career in 1900 as head tester for an automobile concern. Since then he has driven various makes of cars in this country as well as abroad. His actual racing experience began in Chicago in 1907, at which time he won one of the first twenty-four-hour races run in this country. He got a perfect score in the Glidden Tour in 1907 and 1908. He was runner up in the Fairmount Park race in 1909. In 1910 he won a special fifty-mile match race, driving fifty miles in forty-six minutes, which is considered a record on a mile track, after which Turner went abroad and purchased a Voissin [sic!] aeroplane. However, the aeroplane was never unloaded in this country on account of the injunction gotten out by the Wright brothers. Turner again tackled the racing game by driving the Amplex in the Panama-Pacific race last February."

The latter performance is the only one I can verify through my records: he was flagged in fourth (and last) on Feb 22 in the 600 CID race, and retired from the Free-for-all the same day.

[mike toro]

Thanks for the info, Fines! That Wright Brothers bit is fantastic!

[Richard Jenkins]

If anything could be found on this chap, it would really help...
What does the H stand for, for example?

I admit that after WWI not much is clear on this fellow...

[mike toro]

I admit that after WWI not much is clear on this fellow...

So very true.

I'd like to know how he got started in racing, what he did after he walked away from it and how he died. And I'd love to know what the H. stands for. That could unlock other doors, I imagine ...

[lesleycluff]

Have waited two days to be able to get in on this discussion! True its not exactly recent, but hopefully the posters so far do get notice when a cmment is added.
I am the great granddaughter of William 'Wild Bill' Henry Turner who took 8th postion at the first Indy 500. Been looking for details on gramps for some time! Was thrilled to see that not only did a search turn up his name, but someone actaully specfically was asking for info on him!
Will was born in Toronto, Ontario (not Buffalo) in 1877. TWenty-one years later he married Lily Jefferys, sister of a famous Canadian painter who had originally immmigrated to the US, then the family came north - William Charles Jefferys.
William and Lily had a daughter, Evelyn, my grandmother, then a couple years later a son, then a couple years later a second daughter. At some point, possibly around 1901, William was working and temporarily living in New York state, building cars. Could have been Ford, but I doubt it. There seems to have been several auto manufacturers in the state even near Detroit and Buffalo at that time. Sometime after 1906, he seems to have married the auto industry, and stopped coming back home to his wife and kids in Toronto. His wife listed him in the 1911 Canadian census as if he ws living with her, and stated his occupation as chauffeur. This was a few days after the Indy 500 he drove in. He was obviously not in Toronto.
There are family rumours about him, but someone kept in touch with him I am sure. He seems to disappear after 1911. I can't find him anywhere and seems no one else can either But, I think he just laid low. His son Harry was watching a film or the newsreel with a film, when he was sure he recognized his father in an auto racing scene. This likely was about 1918 to 1920. Story is that young Harry took off for California to find his father. Never did. Don't know if it was a film that centered around auto racing that he saw or was a newsstory on the newsreel that was always shown before the movie!
The story that belies the family assertion that he disappeared, is that there is a story about how he died. About 1943, a car lost control, was headed toward two women who did not see it coming. William ran out to save the women, which he did successfully, but he was hit himself and died of his injuries.
What he did in the 30 years between that first Indy 500, and few other races that year, and 1943 when there is in fact a California death registration for a non-American- country is left blank - is unknown. A census search failed to show up a likely candidate. The two who did jump out,after further investigation turned out to not be our William.
Any family here who might have known the family secrets, is now long gone, with those secrets - except what I found online.....
William's wife did remarry, finally, after years of enjoying the rest and board money of a gentleman boarder whom the children called Uncle William. Yes, another William and this one was a first cousin of the first one! But Lily knew her first husband was long gone and not coming back, even if likely still alive when she married William the second.
So Will Turner was not well liked by the next generation and one family geneologist refuses to even research him. But hey, we share blood, so I am eager to learn as much as I can find about him! Did my poor offering help fill in some blanks of interest?
Lesley

[Richard Jenkins]

Lesley - this is a huge help. I am sure you might have tried this already, but I will see if there is any way of looking on Ancestry to see if I can fill any blanks in to help even more.
I always wondered why W.H. Turner's details have been so difficult to get hold of. Like Claude Burton, some racing drivers disappeared - even to family - back in the days when disappearing without a paper trail was easier, I guess.

[Darren Galpin]

Don't know whether these are one and the same, but info on "William Turner":

22 Feb 1911 - Panama-Pacific Road Race, San Francisco. William Turner finished 4th in the 301-600ci race driving an Amplex, and 4th in the free-displacement race.

[Michael Ferner]

See post #2, Darren, this is the man (but he didn't finish the free-for-all, he retired early on). Since my earlier post I found one more appearance for Bill Turner, Sep 16 in 1911, New York State Fair in Syracuse, finished second to Bob Burman (Opel) in a 5-mile heat and second to Ralph de Palma (Simplex) in a ten-mile heat, both times driving an Amplex. He was a likely starter in the 50-mile main event, but results are difficult to find since this was the infamous event in which Lee Oldfield crashed, killing nine or even eleven spectators (sources differ). Turner didn't win, though, de Palma did.

Returning to the Indianapolis Star article, it's quite puzzling to find it loaded with nonsense - usually, those short driver resumés were quite accurate! Probably a junior hack getting the lowdown from the man himself. Anyway, Turner definitely did not finish second at Fairmount Park in 1909, neither overall nor in class, and I doubt he won the mentioned 24-hour and 50-mile races. Difficult to say if he partook in the Glidden Tours, since I never paid too much attention to those, but I know that "a perfect score" doesn't mean much - several dozen driving crews appear to have achieved that feat each year. Researching drivers with common names is always difficult, because personal names are rarely mentioned and often confused, but there were comparatively few Turners competing in America in those days, and most don't fit our William. There was, however, a minor hill climb in Colorado in 1913, won by a "Bill Turner" in a Maxwell - if he indeed ended up in California, that just might have been our man!?

Thanks for the correction of the birth place, another indication for the theory that the short Star bio probably emanated from Turner himself. Your story also explains why he may have given this false info - hiding from the family! Another puzzle that remains is that he, apparently, competed exclusively on Amplex cars, a company based in Mishawaka (IN). Amplex cars were built by the Simplex Motor Car Co., which is often confused with the more prominent Simplex Automobile Co. in New York, yet Bill Turner appears to have been based in New York - or was that another case of subterfuge?

[Richard Jenkins]

Lesley,
I would appreciate any more information you have about W.H.Turner's death. I have tried to search to see if he pops up anywhere else, but like yourself, the trail runs cold after a while. I would very much like to add that to the new found birth information on here - http://www.oldracing....._Bill'_Turner

Should Turner be listed as Canadian, rather than American seeing that he was born, bred & married in Ontario?

[lesleycluff]

Hello everyone. I'm a history buff and new found racing fan. I've been reading on the first Indy race and have found something of a mystery: the 8th place finisher W. H. Turner.

There's almost no information on him save his nickname "Wild Bill" and a questionable birth date and place in his wiki. Looking through old newspapers, only a few Maxwell ads from 1915 come up. I'd really like to know more about him. He had to be a character with the nickname Wild Bill, but was it because of his driving style, his drinking, his penchant for fight -- like the other more famous other Wild Bills -- or what ???

I've been lurking here for a few weeks now and found lots of interesting information. Many thanks

Looking through old newspapers, only a few Maxwell ads from 1915 come up.

Mike - you said
"Looking through old newspapers, only a few Maxwell ads from 1915 come up."
I haven't been able to find anything beyond 1911, so wow, what have you got from 1915????
Lesley

[lesleycluff]

Don't know whether these are one and the same, but info on "William Turner":

22 Feb 1911 - Panama-Pacific Road Race, San Francisco. William Turner finished 4th in the 301-600ci race driving an Amplex, and 4th in the free-displacement race.

Richie - I've looked thru ancestry, I have world deluxe, and checked out many possible Wild Bill's but none are the right one. I had one in 1910 and one in 1930, but both when investigated further were wrong. But, I am in my mind, knowing what I know about men, convinced that he did remarry, or at worst, had a few girllfriends. A theory - open for comments please guys ---- Will was in a new and very sexy field - a race car driver!!! Then he may have learned the newest adreniline rush sport - flying! Even bought a plane if the one newspaper report above is correct - and entered a second very sexy profession - pilot!!! That one I know is true for sure - my brother was a pilot. So here is a half good looking man (did find a lousy photo that does give some idea of his visage atleast) who is into two sexy new sports. So come on, is he goin' say no??? Wife is half a continent away with three kids. And his cousin is living with her as a boarder, called 'uncle' by his kids. I know Toronto, born there too, and there is no way even today you can compare the lifestyle of California (assuming he went there) and uptight Toronto, Ontario, Canada. My money is on descendants do exist!
Will does seem to have evaded the census takers - why? I believe the idea that he is an American born in Buffalo probably comes from the young reporter asking where he was from - and assuming the reporter meant where had he just come from, Will said Buffalo. Reporter meant place of origin. But, if everyone believed he was American, then he qualified to drive in at least one race that required all drivers to be natural born Americans. He also avoided that boring business of naturalization. So he kept his head down so the US government might not find him, and a Canadian wife might not find him either. He was working away from home even during the few years he and his wife Lily had their three kids. He likely never bonded to them. He worked across the border building cars is what has come across the century. You don't miss what you never really had.
I am playing with the idea that he may have crossed into the new industry of flying. Will do some googling on that and he may have moved to England, less likely France. I'll report back.

[Gerr]

The 1911 race results, in various books have this driver as W.H. "Jack" Turner.

[carl s]

Sorry - Can't make the paste function work.

https://books.google...ew york&f=false

 

Motor Age Vol 31

May `17, 1917 p21

 

"W.H. Turner Dies"

Denver Co. May 11

William H. Turner, race driver, has died in Denver after an illness of several months.

He was known throughout the Rocky Mountain Region as 'Wild Bill Turner', a title of admiration and affection given him because of performances as a race driver. 

He held the record for the Mt Falcon Hill Climb, a foothills event conducted by the Denver Motor Club near Morrison, and also had won several road and track racing prizes.

He was prominent in trade circles as Wyoming District Salesman for the Maxwell which position he held at the time of his death.

Edited by carl s, 06 September 2015 - 15:24.

[Richard Jenkins]

Wow! Totally unexpected place and date of death. Thanks Carl.
Before I update the necessary, I presume there were no other Wild Bill WH Turners of that era? The Maxwell connection seems solid, it's just the obit doesn't mention Indianapolis?

[Michael Ferner]

Well, since the Maxwell Bill Turner was described as "from New York" when winning at Mount Falcon, we can probably assume that he's identical to the Amplex Bill Turner "from New York". Great find, Carl!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 06 September 2015 - 09:22.

[carl s]

On a related note: How about ‘this’ for coincidence?

 

Thanks in great part to your notes I learned of Arthur Greiner being Wild Bill’s AMPLEX teammate in the 1911 race. In doing some snooping I came across this (but immediately lost the link) article:

 

“Chicago Tribune (IL) - May 25, 1917 GREINER DIES IN SANITARIUM Deceased Name: Arthur W. Greiner Arthur W. Greiner, conspicuous for several years as an automobile driver and "man about town," died yesterday in a Milwaukee sanitarium. He had been seriously ill for several months, following a nervous breakdown. The collapse came when he and Mrs. Greiner were living at the Edgewater Beach hotel. In the hope of recovering his health Mr. Greiner 's relatives caused his removal to the Milwaukee sanitarium, but he sank gradually. The body will be brought to Chicago and the funeral held tomorrow from the Greiner family residence at 1930 Lincoln avenue. Mr. Greiner was less than 34 years old. Chicago Tribune (IL) Date: May 25, 1917 Edition: Chicago Tribune Record Number: 19170525fp010”

 

Hard to believe but if accurate both died within DAYS of one another and both from medical not race related situations.

 

 

 

Turner is described as more than a bit of a shady character who disappeared more than once prior to his announce death – who knows?