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Photos from New Zealand tracks, pits and paddocks


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#1 hatrat

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 11:08

Some photos don't fit in the "hills" and "forgotten drivers" threads so I thought I would start with these two:
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#2 wenoopy

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 12:22

[quote name='hatrat' date='May 27 2009, 23:08' post='3665723']
Some photos don't fit in the "hills" and "forgotten drivers" threads so I thought I would start with these two:
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The RA Special looked totally out of place among the rest of the field for the 1954 Dunedin race. More like a 1957 or so Cooper. Does someone have a photo of that car in action?

NZ Magazine articles in recent years have led to confusion by wrongly using photos of its later 1960's reincarnation in the earlier context. But the 1954 car had no real impact on the racing scene. Had Hec Green lost interest, or was he more keen on the construction than the racing and development?

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 14:14

It's true the 1954 RA achieved little in the way of results, but in that year and the next it was a front-runner while it lasted. As far as I can see though, it wasn't much faster than the RA Vanguard it replaced
Green then started work on his next RA but then got diverted into working as Tom Clark's mechanic. When Clark retired after the 1959 season work resumed, and the new car appeared in 1960

#4 hatrat

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 19:58

Another photo of the RA most probably taken at the same time as the engine bay shot. These photos look like they are early in this RA series of evolution.

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#5 hatrat

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 20:00

An evocative paddock photo with BRM and the Lucas service truck.

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#6 bradbury west

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 08:30

What engine is in the RA, please?
RL

#7 David McKinney

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 08:59

It's an RA...

Specially-cast block, with Hec Green's own twin-cam head and camshafts. Only the crankshaft and conrods, which were Standard Vanguard, the SU carburettors and the twin-ignition system were not Green-built.




#8 Peter Leversedge

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:58

What engine is in the RA, please?
RL

The engine in the RA is an engine that Hec and Jack built them self based on a 4 cyl Vangard. I understand that in its last version they made every thing except the crank

#9 wenoopy

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 10:48

Some photos don't fit in the "hills" and "forgotten drivers" threads so I thought I would start with these two:

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Ardmore 1956 NZ Grand Prix.
Presumably Frank Kleinig in Porsche that Moss drove in the sports car race.
Driver has visor, Moss wore goggles.

#10 hatrat

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 10:54

Couldn't find any photos of Moss in the Porsche - this is as close as I could get:

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#11 thunder427

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 11:30

hatrat;...#7,is that Johnny Mansell ?????,I always remember him wearing a 'Black' shirt with a 'White' helmet, but I seem to remember that his 250f was 'Black'........."I'm worried my memory is fading , Doctor Hatrat" ????????..................regards427

#12 David McKinney

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 11:42

I thought everyone recognised Stirling Moss :)

#13 thunder427

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 12:05

David McKinney...........Does this mean my memory 'HAS' Faded,Your 'Right' ofcoarse and as stated else where,my alltime 'Hero'....but it has to be said (in my Defernce!!) that Johnny Mansel did look a lot like 'Sir Sterling',in that 'Black' 250f................I shall 'ASK' to be forgiven !!!....regards427

#14 bradbury west

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 12:13

It's an RA... Specially-cast block, with Hec Green's own twin-cam head and camshafts. Only the crankshaft and conrods, which were Standard Vanguard, the SU carburettors and the twin-ignition system were not Green-built.

Many thanks. Bearing in mind the Vanguard bits were for/from a Ferguson tractor they should have been robust enough. Do we have an idea of hp as the period TR2 churned out something in the region of 100bhp on twin SUs, or the revs he used?. The TR used to peak at around 4500/4750 IIRC.
Was the Vanguard engine a popular and/or just a cheap and available appropriately sized wet-liner unit? ISTR that the Citroen Special I saw in 2001 at Ruapuna had one too. ISTR it had broken its crank...........certainly hors de combat. It was one of those run-what-u-brung events. Got some film of it here somewhere.

What gearbox did Green use?

The Hec Green tc heads etc seem really pioneering when you consider Triumph's own much later efforts with the "Sabrina" engine
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 28 May 2009 - 12:14.


#15 David McKinney

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 14:12

Roger,
Don't think I've ever seen hp figures for the RA engine, but 180bhp was claimed for the supercharged Vanguard engine he used in an earlier car. No idea of rpm. I'll have a look, but I'm not optimistic

The gearbox was also an RA design


Thunder,
You're forgiven :wave:

#16 maoricar

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 14:50

Many thanks. Bearing in mind the Vanguard bits were for/from a Ferguson tractor they should have been robust enough. Do we have an idea of hp as the period TR2 churned out something in the region of 100bhp on twin SUs, or the revs he used?. The TR used to peak at around 4500/4750 IIRC.
Was the Vanguard engine a popular and/or just a cheap and available appropriately sized wet-liner unit? ISTR that the Citroen Special I saw in 2001 at Ruapuna had one too. ISTR it had broken its crank...........certainly hors de combat. It was one of those run-what-u-brung events. Got some film of it here somewhere.

What gearbox did Green use?

The Hec Green tc heads etc seem really pioneering when you consider Triumph's own much later efforts with the "Sabrina" engine
Roger Lund


I'm not ENTIRELY sure that the Vanguard DID in fact evolve from the Ferguson engine. It MAY have been the other way round.
The Vanguard AND the Twin-cam Jaguar engines both had in their genes, a relationship to pre-WW2 Standard engines, esp in the crank-bearing areas. In fact, for reasons of economy, engine rebuilders in the 'know' would often order two sets of Vanguard big end bearings to make one set of Jaguar big end bearings...they were identical in every respect. They would obviously not use the left-over shells. Although quite weighty, the Vanguard WAS a very robust unit, especially for a 3 main bearing long stroke crank. For its time it was well designed and well executed especially when you consider that Mercedes were still using the retrograde 'thick-wall' type bearings and others such as Ford and Chevrolet still used direct metalled bearings...well into the 1950's..
During my time at Glacier Bearings NZ Ltd, we were approached by a number of people asking for assistance on various and sometimes, quite odd, engine design or modification issues.


#17 hiteknz

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 21:03

[quote name='maoricar' date='May 28 2009, 02:50' post='3667484']
I'm not ENTIRELY sure that the Vanguard DID in fact evolve from the Ferguson engine. It MAY have been the other way round.

The first post war Ferguson Tractors used a Continental Engine interim ,then according to the Ferguson records they switched to the Standard engine,so that would mean the Vanguard came first ,a bit OT but we used to put Ferguson cams into Vanguard engines for marine use ,they had a lot more torque
Bob

#18 hatrat

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 21:36

Seeing we are on engines, here is the engine from the Kleinig Porsche. Photo signed by Frank Kleinig.

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#19 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 22:45

The Fergy engine is based on a Vanguard. The block is tractor only, I think the crank is interchangeable, as are the liners. The head is interchangeable but has larger chambers and has been mentioned the cam was different too.
The Vanguard engine was a very tough and for its day quite modern. A bloke I knew had a Vanguard Vignale [about59 or 60] which had the SUs, half decent exhaust etc. He tidied up the engine with a port job, raised compression, reground cam etc and it would run to about 5500 and scared the hell out of 179s and slant 6s and it would do an indicated 105 mph easy. it probably would have been quicker but the overdrive didnt switch on at that time.
Our Spacemaster ute was quicker than an FJ or E series Vauxhall and at its most overloaded had 2 1/2 ton of grapes on the ute and trailer and pulled it up some quite steep hills! It was also used as a tractor for harrowing etc, was bloody amazing what it did.

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#20 thunder427

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 14:00

working out of the Fitzgibbon family,Service Station/Garage at 409 Harewood Road,Bishopdale,Christchurch, 1974/5,the single cylinder compressor decided ,twenty years of rattling away was enough!!!!!!!!!!,'No work no more', this meant, No 'FREE AIR', crisis!!!!!!!!!, I got the job of dismantling this 'AGED' creation behind the work shop,Mr Fitzgibbon,bumped the hat back on the head,got out the 'Vernier' thingy,mumbled a few choice words and came back with a brand 'New', in the box, VANGUARD piston,basically it fitted straight in (Mr Fitz gave it a couple of 'Demon tweeks') 'Presto!!.. 'FREE AIR', up and running in 24hrs, thanks to the might of Standard Triumph and British engineering.........................regards427

Edited by thunder427, 30 May 2009 - 11:41.


#21 kelvin brown

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 04:18

Dont know if I am doing it right but hopefully you may get a photo of Hec Green at Wigram in 1953 a similar picture but of his earlier 1951 RA Vanguard Kelvin Brown

Many thanks. Bearing in mind the Vanguard bits were for/from a Ferguson tractor they should have been robust enough. Do we have an idea of hp as the period TR2 churned out something in the region of 100bhp on twin SUs, or the revs he used?. The TR used to peak at around 4500/4750 IIRC.
Was the Vanguard engine a popular and/or just a cheap and available appropriately sized wet-liner unit? ISTR that the Citroen Special I saw in 2001 at Ruapuna had one too. ISTR it had broken its crank...........certainly hors de combat. It was one of those run-what-u-brung events. Got some film of it here somewhere.

What gearbox did Green use?

The Hec Green tc heads etc seem really pioneering when you consider Triumph's own much later efforts with the "Sabrina" engine
Roger Lund



#22 kelvin brown

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 04:29

Dont know if I am doing it right but hopefully you may get a photo of Hec Green at Wigram in 1953 a similar picture but of his earlier 1951 RA Vanguard Kelvin Brown



#23 David McKinney

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 05:50

The photo Kelvin referred to
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Welcome to TNF, Kelvin :wave:



#24 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 09:55


Motor racing in the countryside.

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#25 Peter Leversedge

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 10:58

Motor racing in the countryside - 260M Zephyr , Renwick , Ron Rutherford or Mike Stephens ?

Edited by Peter Leversedge, 31 May 2009 - 11:00.


#26 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 11:56

I think that it has to be racer Ron - but looking at the bare paddocks beyond we must reflect that this land is now the best Sauvignon Blanc producer in the world.
One million cases of Nobilos to the US this year.

#27 Peter Leversedge

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 01:32

Yes the grape vines have replaced the sheep. I was visiting Russell Greer [ owner the the Staton Corvette ] recently and he has a back yard full of grape vines as well as his collection of cars
I had the chance to race the 260M Zephyr for a Ruapuna meeting while it was in Mike Sephten's ownership. It was a neat experience. I found it quite different to drive from the cars I had been used to. I could not "hang the tail out" and and bring it back like I could in my dirt track type car

#28 RAVanguard

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 04:53

Roger
Don't know what revs Hec used on the Vanguard special, but with his earlier RA Vanguard, contemporary press clippings quoted him as having no hesitation in using 6 to 7000 in sprints and short races. It was supercharged to 16 psi on methanol, engine mods amounted to only cross drilled crank, lightened flywheel, altered cam timing, and sodium filled valves were found necessary to stop detonation. I am presently near the end of an extended rebuild of the car which still retains its original Green built 3 speed transaxle.
Richard

#29 hiteknz

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 08:00

Motor racing in the countryside.

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Milan
What year would this be ,Nov 1960 ?
Bob

#30 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 08:22

Sorry, I don't know when that photo was taken.

#31 wenoopy

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 10:59


Milan
What year would this be ,Nov 1960 ?
Bob

This looks to be the State Hwy 63/Alma St corner which was only on the longer 1.5 mile circuit used from 1962 onward.

Presumably Rutherford(Ron) but which year ....

#32 David McKinney

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 14:07

I took this one in November 1961...
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#33 Stephen W

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 08:28

I took this one in November 1961...
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David, have the tyres been doctored? They almost seem to be slicks! :wave:

#34 wenoopy

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 10:19

David, have the tyres been doctored? They almost seem to be slicks! :wave:


Call me picky, David, if you want, but I don't think this is November 1961.

Car appears to be on starting grid, but background hills and trees are same as in Milan's photo. The Nov 11, 1961 race was won by Pat Hoare, running the V6 Ferrari with a 'nostril nose' (for I think the only time), and that race started in the main street, with the starter waving his flag from the top of a painter's scaffold from the look if it. 'Classic Driver' had photos of the 1961 start in an article some issues back.

I think your photo has to be at least a year later.



#35 David McKinney

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 10:53

You spotted my deliberate error :blush:

Must have labelled it wrong - I wasn't even at the 1961 meeting :rolleyes:

Rutherford was No.4 in November 1961, when the car was still the RA Zephyr, but also in November 1962, by which time it had become the 260M Zephyr Special. And that's when I took the photo

Good to see people are on the ball :lol:

#36 David McKinney

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 10:54

Formule Libre indeed
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A mid ’60s Levin meeting with a 2500, a 1500 and a 500 fighting for the same piece of track
Posted on behalf of new TNF member RJB

Edited by David McKinney, 02 June 2009 - 10:56.


#37 David McKinney

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 11:14

This one's from Ardmore, NZ Grand Prix meeting 1961

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Duncan Mackenzie's single-cam Cooper-Climax T41 - driver is the tall bloke in the middle, with pit crew Ross McLauchlan (left) and Dick Butters. Duncan's father and girlfriend on the pit-counter

Car in the foreground is David Evans's Cooper-Climax T43

Photo from RJB

Edited by David McKinney, 12 February 2010 - 11:15.


#38 gavinevitt

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 09:30

Some wonderful photos in this thread, but surprised there haven't been more posted.

Here a a few random photos from an old collection I was recently given to scan, other photos are on the NZ Saloon thread and the F5000 thread.

Jim Boyd. Lycoming Spl on the old Pukekohe loop.
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The Ross Baker Heron Daimler sportscar.
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Ken Smith Lotus (20B?)
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Johnny Riley in the replica Lotus 19 with Olds power.
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Jim Boyd Cambridge Lola T70
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Graeme Harvey Elfin
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Dennis Marwood Rorison Eisert F5000
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Leo Geoghegan Lotus 39 Repco at BayPark Dec 1968
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#39 GD66

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 11:54

Nice work, Gavin. Is that Jack Inwood's Alfa, AR 1040, in the background of the Kenny Smith Lotus shot ? And I think that might be Graham Pierce's dad, Joe, admiring Leo Geoghegan's fabulous Lotus at Bay Park. Yes, it was the intro of F5000, and something new and exciting, but for me Leo's Lotus 39 Repco was the star of the weekend ! :eek:

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#40 bradbury west

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 15:12

Presumably the Heron Daimler had the 4.5ltr V8, or was it the 2.5?
Roger Lund

#41 GD66

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 04:01

2.5

#42 bradbury west

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 06:21

Thanks. A fascinating little engine.
RL

Edited by bradbury west, 27 April 2010 - 20:22.


#43 David McKinney

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 11:54

It was designed to take an air-cooled 3.2-litre flat-six Chevrolet Corvair engine but problems with Customs meant the Corvair plan was shelved, and the car was completed with a 2548cc Daimler V8 engine with eight Amal carburettors and stackpipe exhaust, driving through a Citroen ID19 gearbox and ZF limited-slip diff


#44 bradbury west

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 16:03

David, as ever, many thanks for the full detail on another NZ car. 8 Amals ....but the little Ted Eves designed V8 was always regarded as a silky gem in period which revved well.
RL
PS perhaps the Customs did not want Mr Nader encroaching into NZ.

#45 David McKinney

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 16:56

I don't know what power was claimed for that engine, but a couple of years later someone else in NZ ran one in the back of a Lotus 25, destroked (to comply with the 2.5 Tasman formula) and with Lucas fuel injection. His efforts managed to increase output from the standard 140bhp to 200 - pity he never completed the twin-cam heads he designed for it :)

#46 GD66

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 06:25

Is that Peter Hughes you're talking about, David ? I seem to recall that being a pretty nifty-looking installation. And Tim Bailey had a Brabham with a Fiat engine around about that time as well, seemed to under-perform a bit, but worth a go. Good on them for attempting something a little different.

#47 David McKinney

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 07:50

Is that Peter Hughes you're talking about, David ? I seem to recall that being a pretty nifty-looking installation. And Tim Bailey had a Brabham with a Fiat engine around about that time as well, seemed to under-perform a bit, but worth a go. Good on them for attempting something a little different.

Yes, Peter Hughes
Bailey of course worked for (or was) a Fiat dealer, which I guess was his motivation. I think it was economics in Hughes's case


#48 hiteknz

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 09:16

Yes, Peter Hughes
Bailey of course worked for (or was) a Fiat dealer, which I guess was his motivation. I think it was economics in Hughes's case

The Fiat engine in the Bailey car was actually not too bad power wise ,it just had a terrible appetite for bearings ,no matter what you did, the combination of the Fiat oil feed set up to the bearings and the oil pan used were also of no help to the problem,invariably when the Pellow Bros raced the car we ended up replacing the bearings overnite between practice and race day.
I also had the privileage in that era of working on the Daimler V8 engine in the Heron with its eight Amal carburetors and all the linkages you had to set up and adjust ,that motor in my estimation never had the power touted for it
Both cars from a mechanics point were character building to say the least

#49 bradbury west

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 20:33

Some wonderful photos in this thread, Ken Smith Lotus (20B?)
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Thinking of transporters etc, whose would the Rothmans trailer be?
Roger Lund

#50 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 21:50

Thinking of transporters etc, whose would the Rothmans trailer be?
Roger Lund

I have no idea but I like the towcar, a FJ Holden ute