21 replies to this topic

[Stephen Miller]

Been watching Le Mans Coverage and this question came up.

I had always heard it was because it was the only real left hand corner on the circuit, at least up until 1968 revisions.

It has been suggested that the name came from the fact that the corner was paved with bricks. Why that particular corner, way out in the country would be paved with bricks and result in that name seems obscure to me.

Anybody have any other opinions on the origin of the name?

[David M. Kane]

Duncan Dayton (LaPatron Team owner) just told ESPN that the corner was originally made of bricks.

[Stephen Miller]

Duncan Dayton (LaPatron Team owner) just told ESPN that the corner was originally made of bricks.

I know, I heard that answer as well, and I have never heard of that before, but have heard the left turn answer many times over the years.

The paved with bricks answer may not be correct? Hence the question.

I am wondering which trivia answer is correct?

[Stephen Miller]

Paved with Bricks appears to be correct. Duncan has a good memory. The Le Mans Yearbook 1978 page 26: "...while Indianapolis itself (formerly brick surfaced like its American namesake)..."

If Moity and Teissedre said it, it must be true, since they are the master historians.

So appologies for questioning Duncan!

However, I have also heard Indianapolis quoted as the name because it was the only left hander before 1968.

Mystery solved!

Interesting how folklore evolves!

Edited by Stephen Miller, 14 June 2009 - 02:20.

[Doug Nye]

Interesting how folklore evolves!

Indeed. And in many cases how securely BS sticks...

DCN

[Stephen Miller]

Indeed. And in many cases how securely BS sticks...

DCN

Yes, and what is really dumb is that I have read all my Le Mans annuals from cover to cover(well maybe not the french language versions), so I must have read this before and forgotten. So not only does the BS stick, but the brain fades!!

[Tim Murray]

My understanding is that the original surface at Indianapolis corner was pavé constructed using stone setts, not bricks. Is this correct?

[RCH]

Must admit never heard the story about being the only left-hander before, is this an American idea? I was always led to believe it was so called because it was originally paved with bricks. Bear in mind that the whole Mulsanne to Arnage stretch was originally built in 1921 to create the circuit for the GP that year so presumably the whole stretch was brick? I also believe that the brick surface was soon changed because it was too slippery?

Question that occurs to me occasionally but hardly of any great importance in the overall order of things. Why, in English, was there always a White House but never a Red Bank?

[wdm]

Why that particular corner, way out in the country would be paved with bricks and result in that name seems obscure to me.

Given RCH's information of this stretch of track being custom-built for racing, might it not be that this corner was deliberately constructed as an hommage to the American track? In which case both the brick construction and the left-handedness might be correct. In fact, if I remember correctly, is the corner not banked, also?

[D-Type]

Must admit never heard the story about being the only left-hander before, is this an American idea? I was always led to believe it was so called because it was originally paved with bricks. Bear in mind that the whole Mulsanne to Arnage stretch was originally built in 1921 to create the circuit for the GP that year so presumably the whole stretch was brick? I also believe that the brick surface was soon changed because it was too slippery?

Question that occurs to me occasionally but hardly of any great importance in the overall order of things. Why, in English, was there always a White House but never a Red Bank?

It's very simple - basic schoolboy French vocabulary includes the words "maison", "blanc", and "rouge" and "eau" but doesn't extend to "tertre" or "hunadière". Or could it be that a white house is recognisable as such in a black and white photo?

Incidentally, I have never heard the "because it's a left hander" theory before. If asked I would instantly say it's because of the brick surface a 'fact' which I 'learnt' before I started shaving but can't cite a source.

Edited by D-Type, 15 June 2009 - 12:15.

[Arjan de Roos]

The Indianapolis corner at Le Mans is a left hander but also banked as at Indy.

[RCH]

Given RCH's information of this stretch of track being custom-built for racing, might it not be that this corner was deliberately constructed as an hommage to the American track? In which case both the brick construction and the left-handedness might be correct. In fact, if I remember correctly, is the corner not banked, also?

Unlikely I would have thought but could the victory by what would have been seen as an Indianapolis type car in the GP of 1921 have influenced the name?

[D-Type]

Unlikely I would have thought but could the victory by what would have been seen as an Indianapolis type car in the GP of 1921 have influenced the name?

I doubt the French would have wanted to recall defeat by those upstarts from across the Atlantique

[RCH]

I doubt the French would have wanted to recall defeat by those upstarts from across the Atlantique

I tend to agree! I dismissed the idea of a "homage" to the Indy circuit on the principle that they would probably have not even recognised it as a "proper" race track if they had heard of it at all! I suspect the name came later.

[philippe charuest]

i dont see why not .they were very aware of the reputation of indianapolis , and the french had more then there share of success at indy in the early years, i tend to believe more that the name come because it was a 90° left curve, i have some doubt about the brick story .

[D-Type]

Philippe, I know you are far better informed about Le Mans than myself, but ever since I can remember, I have read in several books that Indianapolis is so named because it was originally paved with bricks.

For example in David Hodges' history of the race, Le Mans 24-Hour Race, published in 1963 when describing the circuit he writes "Near maximum is reached again before cars slow for Indianapolis (the left hander of the old Arnage Esses, once pavé-surfaced and thus reminding contemporaries of the 'Brickyard') ~"

I can imagine 1920's enthusiasts knowing that Indianapolis was surfaced with bricks but I cannot imagine them caring that the corners turned left. If, as some have suggested, the corner is slightly banked this would add to its resemblance to the folklore.

[Arjan de Roos]

Why that particular corner, way out in the country would be paved with bricks and result in that name seems obscure to me.

Anybody have any other opinions on the origin of the name?

What I do know is that the Le Mans track was also used as a test bed for road surfaces. In the twenties asphalt was not yet widely accepted as a road surface. As you all know racing was done on the sany roads. A rain race resulted in particular ideal lines!! Parts of the Le Mans track were surfaced differently as to test what would best to improve the french land roads. On part was surfaced with bricks, including the virage Indianapolis.

[RCH]

What I do know is that the Le Mans track was also used as a test bed for road surfaces. In the twenties asphalt was not yet widely accepted as a road surface. As you all know racing was done on the sany roads. A rain race resulted in particular ideal lines!! Parts of the Le Mans track were surfaced differently as to test what would best to improve the french land roads. On part was surfaced with bricks, including the virage Indianapolis.

Never heard that before but it seems to make sense. I know that photos from the '30's seem to show a very smoothly surfaced track.

[Stephen W]

My understanding is that the original surface at Indianapolis corner was pavé constructed using stone setts, not bricks. Is this correct?

For example in David Hodges' history of the race, Le Mans 24-Hour Race, published in 1963 when describing the circuit he writes "Near maximum is reached again before cars slow for Indianapolis (the left hander of the old Arnage Esses, once pavé-surfaced and thus reminding contemporaries of the 'Brickyard') ~"

I doubt that the French would have used BRICKS for the surface. However the pavé-surface seems more likely as suggested by Tim and backed up by David Hodges quote.

Stone setts rather than baked bricks it is then.

[philippe charuest]

Philippe, I know you are far better informed about Le Mans than myself, but ever since I can remember, I have read in several books that Indianapolis is so named because it was originally paved with bricks.

For example in David Hodges' history of the race, Le Mans 24-Hour Race, published in 1963 when describing the circuit he writes "Near maximum is reached again before cars slow for Indianapolis (the left hander of the old Arnage Esses, once pavé-surfaced and thus reminding contemporaries of the 'Brickyard') ~"

I can imagine 1920's enthusiasts knowing that Indianapolis was surfaced with bricks but I cannot imagine them caring that the corners turned left. If, as some have suggested, the corner is slightly banked this would add to its resemblance to the folklore.

im no specialist ,its just that the brick story is the stuff that "anecdote "are made of and im surprise cause i never read that story before but like you mention maybe they were some pavé at one point there. i try yesterday to find something on the net about that on some french sites like "memoire des stands " but no luck

Edited by philippe charuest, 16 June 2009 - 16:19.

[Stephen Miller]

What I do know is that the Le Mans track was also used as a test bed for road surfaces. In the twenties asphalt was not yet widely accepted as a road surface. As you all know racing was done on the sany roads. A rain race resulted in particular ideal lines!! Parts of the Le Mans track were surfaced differently as to test what would best to improve the french land roads. On part was surfaced with bricks, including the virage Indianapolis.

I also read the same. There is an article in the 1990 Le Mans Yearbook that discusses the history of the mulsanne straight and references the use of the straight for experimenting with different road surfacing materials. Unfortunately no mention of bricks at the Indianapolis corner.

Stephen

[TrackDog]

The Indianapolis corner at Le Mans is a left hander but also banked as at Indy.

This was the story I've always heard. The corner was patterned after one of the turns at Indy when it was built. I always assumed it was Turn 1 at Indy that was the model, but I'm not sure... I never heard of it being paved with bricks or stones. I think it was Phil Hill who commented on the origin of the turn's name during one of the early ABC broadcasts during the mid-late '60's.


Dan