Jump to content


Photo

Brussels Grand Prix


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,897 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 06:53

I have to admit it, I've stopped buying Autosport!
There, I said it. After 40 years of unbroken reading, I decided there was so much motor sport on the net, I just don't need it any more. Not only that, I have sold all my back numbers.
Damn ! I now have a need for them, so, can anyone help?
Back in 1960-61-62 the was a motor race through the streets of Brussels right at the beginning of the European season. In 1960 it was an F2 race, then when the 1.5 litre F1 started, it became an F1 race. The thing is, my current slot race series requires me to run a Brussels Grand Prix. Do you think I can locate a circuit map? Not a chance. There are some great websites showing circuits - of which Darren Galpin's (Hi Darren!) is by far the best - but even he doesn't have the early 60's circuit. I know that Autosport published a track map around the time of the first GP there.
So, come on everybody, please help an old man to pursue his hobby. Find that circuit plan for me.

Advertisement

#2 Darren Galpin

Darren Galpin
  • Member

  • 2,140 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 07:07

;) No plan unfortunately, but from http://www.silhouet....e/f1/index.html


Brussels GP
9 April 1961, Heysel, Belgium, 3x22 laps
Lap Distance=2.83 miles. Race Distance=186.68 miles.

Heat 1
1 Jo Bonnier Porsche 718 '204' 45m40.6, 81.74mph
2 Roy Salvadori Cooper-Climax T53P 'F1-2-61' 46m52.3
3 Jack Brabham Cooper-Climax T53 'FII-5-60' 47m00.7
4 Bruce McLaren Cooper-Climax T53 'FII-8-60' 47m01.5
5 Tony Marsh Lotus-Climax 18 '909' 47m15.4
6 Innes Ireland Lotus-Climax 18 '371' 47m35.0

Fastest Lap: Jo Bonnier (Porsche 718), 2:03.4, 82.50mph
Pole Position: Jo Bonnier, 2:02.7


Heat 2
1 Jack Brabham Cooper-Climax T53 'FII-5-60' 46m04.2, 81.04mph
2 Bruce McLaren Cooper-Climax T53 'FII-8-60' 46m13.9
3 Tony Marsh Lotus-Climax 18 '909' 47m38.7
4 Innes Ireland Lotus-Climax 18 '371' 48m00.4
5 Lucien Bianchi ENB Emeryson-Maserati '1002' 48m19.6
6 Cliff Allison Lotus-Climax 18 '915' 48m19.6
7 Ian Burgess Lotus-Climax 18 '908'

Fastest Lap: John Surtees (Cooper-Climax), 2:02.6, 84.20mph
Pole Position: Jo Bonnier (Porsche 718)


Heat 3
1 Jack Brabham Cooper-Climax T53 'FII-5-60' 46m16.9, 80.63mph
2 Stirling Moss Lotus-Climax 18 46m17.0
3 Bruce McLaren Cooper-Climax T53 'FII-8-60' 47m13.2
4 Tony Marsh Lotus-Climax 18 '909' 47m36.0
5 Lucien Bianchi ENB Emeryson-Maserati '1002' 47m41.0
6 Cliff Allison Lotus-Climax 18 '915' 47m47.6
7 Ian Burgess Lotus-Climax 18 '908'

Fastest Lap: Stirling Moss (Lotus-Climax 18), 2:04.7, 81.80mph
Pole Position: Jack Brabham (Cooper-Climax T53)


Aggregate
1 Jack Brabham Cooper-Climax T53 'FII-5-60' 2h19m21.8, 80.37mph
2 Bruce McLaren Cooper-Climax T53 'FII-8-60' 2h20m28.6
3 Tony Marsh Lotus-Climax 18 '909' 2h22m30.1
4 Lucien Bianchi ENB Emeryson-Maserati '1002' 65 laps
5 Cliff Allison Lotus-Climax 18 '915' 64 laps
6 Ian Burgess Lotus-Climax 18 '908' 61 laps

Note: Results decided upon points basis, not usual aggregate timing.




Brussels GP
1 April 1962, Heysel, Belgium, 3x22 laps
Lap Distance=2.83 miles. Race Distance=186.68 miles.

Heat 1
1 Graham Hill BRM P578 '5781' 47m01.5, 79.50mph
2 Stirling Moss Lotus-Climax V8 18/21 '906' 47m07.0
3 Willy Mairesse Ferrari 156 '0006' 47m15.7
4 Tony Marsh BRM P57 V8 '573' 47m32.6
5 John Surtees Lola-Climax T4 'BRGP 41' 48m00.6
6 Jo Bonnier Porsche 718 '203' 48m30.4

Fastest Lap: Stirling Moss (Lotus-Climax V8 18/21), 2:02.0, 83.46mph
Pole Position: Jim Clark (Lotus-Climax V8 24 '948'), 2:03.1


Heat 2
1 Willy Mairesse Ferrari 156 '0006' 45m39.2, 82.50mph
2 Jo Bonnier Porsche 718 '203' 45m46.5
3 Innes Ireland Lotus-Climax 18/21 '916' 46m13.5
4 John Campbell-Jones Emeryson-Climax '1004' 46m56.8
5 Keith Greene Gilby-Climax 47m21.7
6 Ian Burgess Cooper-Climax T53P 'F1-3-61' 21 laps

Fastest Lap: Stirling Moss (Lotus-Climax V8 18/21), 2:00.0, 84.85mph
Pole Position: Graham Hill (BRM P578)


Heat 3
1 Willy Mairesse Ferrari 156 '0006' 45m42.2, 82.45mph
2 Jo Bonnier Porsche 718 '203' 46m10.4
3 Innes Ireland Lotus-Climax 18/21 '916' 46m31.2
4 Trevor Taylor Lotus-Climax 21 46m47.2
5 Keith Greene Gilby-Climax 46m56.2
6 Jo Siffert Lotus-Ford 22 '22-J-7' 21 laps

Fastest Lap: Willy Mairesse (Ferrari 156), 2:02.1, 83.39mph
Pole Position: Willy Mairesse


Conventional Aggregate
1 Willy Mairesse Ferrari 156 '0006' 2h18m37.1, 80.85mph
2 Jo Bonnier Porsche 718 '203' 2h20m27.3
3 Innes Ireland Lotus-Climax 18/21 '916' 2h21m17.7
4 Keith Greene Gilby-Climax 65 laps
5 Jo Siffert Lotus-Ford 22 '22-J-7' 62 laps
6 Heinz Schiller Porsche 718 62 laps


Official Aggregate
1 Willy Mairesse Ferrari 156 '0006' 5 pts
2 Jo Bonnier Porsche 718 '203' 10 pts
3 Innes Ireland Lotus-Climax 18/21 '916' 13 pts
4 Keith Greene Gilby-Climax 19 pts
5 John Campbell-Jones Emeryson-Climax '1004' 22 pts
6 Jo Siffert Lotus-Ford 22 '22-J-7' 26 pts



#3 Flicker

Flicker
  • Member

  • 194 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 07:09

Hmmm...
May be... this one:
Posted Image

#4 Darren Galpin

Darren Galpin
  • Member

  • 2,140 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 07:35

Nope - not that one. That's the 1.37 mile circuit, not the 2.38 mile circuit.

:)

#5 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,478 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 October 2000 - 10:53

Are you sure, Darren? looks like more than a mile and a half to me...

#6 Darren Galpin

Darren Galpin
  • Member

  • 2,140 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 11:11

The map posted here is the same as the one on my site, and Barry says that it isn't the correct map. Also, the area around the atomium which the map shows really is not that big. It's a Belgian Crystal Palace if you like.

#7 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,478 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 October 2000 - 11:13

I'll bow to your superior knowledge... sorry to disturb your slumber.

#8 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 15:14

Mmmh, strange! I was sure I'd seen a track map somewhere, but leafing through my old "Auto, Motor und Sport" I can find nothing. But where else... ?

#9 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,897 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 17:29

Thanks for the interest so far, guys; close - but no cigar.
If it's possible, I'm 101% convinced that the pages of Autosport hold the key.
I'll keep hoping.

#10 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,084 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 20:03

From Autosport March 4 1960

Posted Image





#11 Boniver

Boniver
  • Member

  • 554 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 20:49

The circuit of the Brussels GP , named « HEYSEL » one consisting of public roads,
Complete with many an unprotected wall, trees ; telegraph pole, bridge and tunnels,
Is the map of autosport of 1960,

I work in Brussel, have see many foto’s of the 60,61 and 62 race
There is the beautiful foto of Willy Mairesse in his Ferrari for the « café des trams »

I know also the other map, bit I have never see one foto with F1 cars (or other racing cars) racing under the « atonium »


#12 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,897 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 21:45

Roger, you are a STAR. You can't imagine how long I have been searching for that plan. Many, many thanks.
Darren, there it is. I TOLD you I wasn't going senile.
BTW the sharp corner at the top right of the map was eventually replaced by the cars running around that rounabout and back onto the long straight. Hence the lap distance increase from 2.7 in 1960 to 2.83 in '61 and '62.

Anyway, thanks again Roger. I go to bed a happy man!

#13 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,478 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 October 2000 - 21:51

And Roger always believed those around him who said it was pointless keeping that pile of old magazines!

#14 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,084 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 18 October 2000 - 22:53

To make happy a member of the Connew team makes me very happy indeed.

#15 Darren Galpin

Darren Galpin
  • Member

  • 2,140 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 19 October 2000 - 06:57

Barry - I'm very sure that you aren't going senile. After all, the track distances gave the game away ;) .

#16 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,478 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 19 October 2000 - 20:41

More links in the chain... where would we be without this constant questioning?

#17 Boniver

Boniver
  • Member

  • 554 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 29 October 2000 - 07:14

22.05.1949
Grand Prix de Bruxelles
the first important Formula 2 race after the war
64 laps 186,49 miles – 2,91 miles

it was not the 1,37 miles or the 2,83 miles circuit
what circuit ?


#18 Marcor

Marcor
  • Member

  • 1,198 posts
  • Joined: July 00

Posted 30 October 2000 - 04:57

There were a double event in Brussel on May 21st 1949 : the Formula 2 and the racers 500 - future F3 - fought their first race in Belgium. Those races went on a Saturday as there would have an other main sports event in the same place the next day: the finish of a bike racing (the Belgian tour).

The newly built Léopold III avenue became once a motor circuit for all his length, precisely between the boulevard Wahis (at Schaerbeek, in the east of Brussels) and the Evere airfield. The circuit was made up two sections - nearly straight and completely parallel - linked together by two cobbled hairpin curves. The length of the track was 4.7 km.

Luigi Villoresi won on the circuit Léopold III the second GP de Brussel on a distance of 300 km (64 laps) being only challenged by his team-mate Franco Cortese. The two Italian drivers were entered by Ferrari who put 166F2 12 cylinder at their disposal. The rest of the 18 entrants included two Simca Gordini for Aldo Gordini (the son of boss Amédée Gordini) and José Scaron, some Belgian driver (Cornet, Claes, Laurent, Legros, André Pilette ...), French driver (Michelet...), British driver (Moore...) and also an American, Alexandre Orley in a Veritas Meteor.

Immediately from the start the two Ferraris took the lead and the fight was soon unequal. The red cars beat the record of the track and practised to a brother fight. On lap 10, Aldo Gordini retired and Scaron followed soon his team-mate in retiring. Ferrari swept up all the opposition. The fight Cortese - Villoresi, number 2 against number 4, sustained the attention and the interest of the public. Cortese seemed to be more fighting but he paid his foolhardiness, having a mechanical problem. Just after the half-race, Cortese didn’t cross the line any longer and then the race began very dull after his retirement. Villoresi lapped again and again all the other drivers. American Alexandre Orley’s Veritas Meteor was second and Emile Cornet’s Veritas RS third, lapped 4 times.

The 500 cc race was a short race, only eight laps, but was more interesting and exciting for the crowd. The 50-year-old fruit farmer and former motorcycle racer Bill Aston won the race in his brand-new Cooper from three other British drivers who drove three abreast and crossed the finish line nearly at the same time : Don Parker’s special winner of the second place’s sprint, Coldham’s Cooper and Samuelson’s Cooper, respectively third ad fourth.

Results of the race (Formula 2)
1- Luigi Villoresi (Italy) Ferrari 166C n°2, 137.215 km/h
2- Alexandre Orley (USA) Veritas Meteor
3- Emile Cornet (B) Veritas RS, + 4 laps
4- Michelet (F) Cisitalia D46, + 11 laps
5- André Pilette (B) BMW 328, + 12 laps
6- John Claes (B) Veritas RS, + 14 laps
7- Jeff Legros (B) Frazer-Nash, + 16 laps
...

FL : Franco Cortese Ferrari 166C n°2, 149.734 km/h

DNF- Aldo Gordini Simca Gordini 1GCS 1.2-litre, lap 10
DNF- Moore OBM BMW 328
DNF- José Scaron Simca Gordini T15 n°6
DNF- Franco Cortese Ferrari 166 n°4, lap 34
...

500 cc race
1- Bill Aston Cooper (117.215 km/h)
2- Don Parker Special
3- Coldham Cooper
4- Samuelson Cooper

Alas for the organisers, the avenue filled up very quickly with buildings. The main road was extended beyond the military area to the Zaventem airfield and no more motor race would be organised there.





#19 Dennis David

Dennis David
  • Member

  • 2,448 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 30 October 2000 - 05:05

Barry not to change the subject but my girlfriend says she's horny. Tonight I'LL go to bed a happy man.

Advertisement

#20 Boniver

Boniver
  • Member

  • 554 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 30 October 2000 - 13:04

Marcor,
Thanks , for the info

2 Orley + 4 laps (It was one of the most emphatic victories)
I have
6. Legros - Legros special
7. Ottenbein - Simca Surva
8. Berté - Berté Special

also DNF
Duval - Duval Special
Laurent - Verital
Aston - Cooper
Claes - Veritas

FL Bill Aston


#21 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 30 October 2000 - 19:42

Hmm, Orley's car can't have been a Veritas Meteor, that never ran before Oct 1949. Instead it was probably a "METEOR", a French car built of Veritas RS parts.

#22 Marcor

Marcor
  • Member

  • 1,198 posts
  • Joined: July 00

Posted 01 November 2000 - 23:06

Fines, I think you're right about Orley's car. My sources spoke about METEOR and not Veritas Meteor. I've certainly made a mistake.

The "Legros Special" was a rebodied Bugatti with a BMW 328 engine. Jeff Legros won a speed trial with this car in March 49 and was fourth in the F2 race of the GP des Frontières but I'm not sure he used it in the Brussels GP.

John Claes stayed for a long time fourth (and second Belgian) behind Cornet. He crossed the finish line pushing his Veritas, lapped 14 times by Villoresi.

Bill Aston won the F3 race, so I'm not sure he took part in the F2 race.

[p][Edited by Marcor on 11-02-2000]