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1960s Formula Libre


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#1 petestenning

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 16:52

In response to a thread on large engined Single seaters i thought i would start this as a hel;p to both own project and Allen's Old race car site .

I am in the process of attaining imformation on drivers and cars by entry lists of my race programmes , several contain formula Libre races of Single Seater race where all cars are eligible bar GT's etc.

I am researching the years 60 to 69 to start the ball rolling here is an entry list for a Libre race from 1963;
Date December 27th 1963. Track Brands Hatch, Club BRSCC


Race 4 The Silver City Trophy Race Formula Libre 20 Laps
1 Lawrencetune Engines Ltd Chris Lawrence Deep Saunderson 105 2274
2 John Ewer Cooper Chevrolet 5359
3 Godfrey Lambert Tony Hegbourne Cooper 1475
4 Anglo-Scottish Racing Team Charlie Crichton-Stuart Cooper 1475
5 John Mew Lotus Climax 1475
6 J.R.R.D.S. John Mastin Lotus Climax 1475
7 J.R.R.D.S. Melvyn Long Lotus Climax 1098
8 H S Lee Lotus 1098
9 J Maglia Lotus 1098
10 Ian Raby Racing Ltd Ian Raby Cooper 1098
11 Clive Baker Racing Clive Baker Cooper 1098
12 D E O'Sullivan Lotus 997
14 Janspeed Engineering Rodney Banting Brabham 997
15 Tony Goodwin Lola 997
RESERVES
16 Mike Budge Cooper 1098
17 G F Meharey Cooper 1098
18 J.R.R.D.S. Jack Hatter Lotus 1098


Along with the 1.0 F3 cars and the F Juniors are the Ewer/ Cooper Chevrolet A special ?
4 Climax Ebgined cars ? all 1465CC.
The main points here are the first names of the drivers and the Car types .

We know about the Deep Saunderson 105 and its driver Chris Lawrence.

Pete

Edited by petestenning, 15 June 2009 - 16:53.


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#2 CLR

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 19:36

In response to a thread on large engined Single seaters i thought i would start this as a hel;p to both own project and Allen's Old race car site .

I am in the process of attaining imformation on drivers and cars by entry lists of my race programmes , several contain formula Libre races of Single Seater race where all cars are eligible bar GT's etc.

I am researching the years 60 to 69 to start the ball rolling here is an entry list for a Libre race from 1963;
Date December 27th 1963. Track Brands Hatch, Club BRSCC


Race 4 The Silver City Trophy Race Formula Libre 20 Laps
1 Lawrencetune Engines Ltd Chris Lawrence Deep Saunderson 105 2274
2 John Ewer Cooper Chevrolet 5359
3 Godfrey Lambert Tony Hegbourne Cooper 1475
4 Anglo-Scottish Racing Team Charlie Crichton-Stuart Cooper 1475
5 John Mew Lotus Climax 1475
6 J.R.R.D.S. John Mastin Lotus Climax 1475
7 J.R.R.D.S. Melvyn Long Lotus Climax 1098
8 H S Lee Lotus 1098
9 J Maglia Lotus 1098
10 Ian Raby Racing Ltd Ian Raby Cooper 1098
11 Clive Baker Racing Clive Baker Cooper 1098
12 D E O'Sullivan Lotus 997
14 Janspeed Engineering Rodney Banting Brabham 997
15 Tony Goodwin Lola 997
RESERVES
16 Mike Budge Cooper 1098
17 G F Meharey Cooper 1098
18 J.R.R.D.S. Jack Hatter Lotus 1098


Along with the 1.0 F3 cars and the F Juniors are the Ewer/ Cooper Chevrolet A special ?
4 Climax Ebgined cars ? all 1465CC.
The main points here are the first names of the drivers and the Car types .

We know about the Deep Saunderson 105 and its driver Chris Lawrence.

Pete





Jaques Maglia, now living in Greece I believe was a single seat racer using Lotus 22FJ and Lotus 32 F2 cars
Hope that helps
Kevin
PS do you know of the two Lotus 35 FL cars. One a 2 litre Climax other Willie Forbes FL Champ in 2 litre BMW powered 35.

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 20:02

I presume you mean 60s rather than 60's, as you're already talking about 1963
And I'd be a lot happier if you could talk about Formule Libre, not Formula Libre :)

But to show there's no ill feeling -

Lee Han Seng
Jacques Maglia
Dennis (or Denis?) O'Sullivan
Gerry Meharey

#4 petestenning

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 20:21

David i quote the Programme which uses the heading ' Formula Libre'

Other races are listed as 'Single Seaters of unlimited capacity '

In 66/67 they are referred to as Formule Libre as you rightly say .

So we are both correct :)

My database uses the heading listed in the programme and the entry list there in which will contain printing errors some of which i have corrected .

If i could alter the heading i would put 60s and include Formula/Fomule Libre. :)

Thanks for the information , much appreciated .


Pete

#5 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 20:45

The four 1475cc Climax cars would presumably be ex-F1 or pre-'62 F1...

The Cooper Chevrolet is an early rendition of that particular combination. Austin Miller's is the only earlier one I've heard of in an openwheeler.

Edited by Ray Bell, 15 June 2009 - 21:30.


#6 Derek Pitt

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 21:22

The four 1475cc Climax cars would presumably be ex-F1 or pre='62 F1...

The Cooper Chevrolet is an early rendition of that particular combination. Austin Miller's is the only earlier one I've heard of in an openwheeler.


Ray,

I am not sure, but I suspect Englishman Chris Summers' T51 Cooper Chevrolet (shudder) preceded Austin Miller's Australian version.

(how did I go with the apostrophes David?)

Derek

#7 David McKinney

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 21:30

That's what I thought too, Derek
But the Australian car first ran in October 1961, and Summers's not until 1962

And I make no comment about apostrophication :)

#8 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 21:32

Okay with the apostrophes, Stan, but you missed the comma after 'apostrophes'!

When did Aussie Miller go Chevrolet? Surely that was 1960?

#9 Chris Townsend

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 21:45

In response to a thread on large engined Single seaters i thought i would start this as a hel;p to both own project and Allen's Old race car site .

I am in the process of attaining imformation on drivers and cars by entry lists of my race programmes , several contain formula Libre races of Single Seater race where all cars are eligible bar GT's etc.

I am researching the years 60 to 69 to start the ball rolling here is an entry list for a Libre race from 1963;
Date December 27th 1963. Track Brands Hatch, Club BRSCC


Race 4 The Silver City Trophy Race Formula Libre 20 Laps
1 Lawrencetune Engines Ltd Chris Lawrence Deep Saunderson 105 2274
2 John Ewer Cooper Chevrolet 5359
3 Godfrey Lambert Tony Hegbourne Cooper 1475
4 Anglo-Scottish Racing Team Charlie Crichton-Stuart Cooper 1475
5 John Mew Lotus Climax 1475
6 J.R.R.D.S. John Mastin Lotus Climax 1475
7 J.R.R.D.S. Melvyn Long Lotus Climax 1098
8 H S Lee Lotus 1098
9 J Maglia Lotus 1098
10 Ian Raby Racing Ltd Ian Raby Cooper 1098
11 Clive Baker Racing Clive Baker Cooper 1098
12 D E O'Sullivan Lotus 997
14 Janspeed Engineering Rodney Banting Brabham 997
15 Tony Goodwin Lola 997
RESERVES
16 Mike Budge Cooper 1098
17 G F Meharey Cooper 1098
18 J.R.R.D.S. Jack Hatter Lotus 1098


Along with the 1.0 F3 cars and the F Juniors are the Ewer/ Cooper Chevrolet A special ?
4 Climax Ebgined cars ? all 1465CC.
The main points here are the first names of the drivers and the Car types .

We know about the Deep Saunderson 105 and its driver Chris Lawrence.

Pete


9 Jacques Maglia perhaps Lotus 22 J-25
12 Denis O'Sullivan, Lotus 22 in 1964
15 Goodwin, Lola Mk2-BMC in March 1964
17 is George or Gerry Mehary, had a Cooper T56 in 1964

Good thread topic!

#10 bradbury west

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 22:03

John Mew's car, John being a Kent orthodontist of great repute and a Brands regular as Santa Claus for some years, may well still have been his old Lotus 20. I have not checked Autosport or programmes.
ISTR that from January 1966 when a raft of new regs and classes came into force, formule libre was for open wheelers only, the halcyon days of run-what-you-brung being ended.
The Lawrence Deep Sanderson would have been his twin engined device with 2x1130odd cc possibly Downton engines as seen at the FoS last year.
Roger Lund

#11 Derek Pitt

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 22:05

Okay with the apostrophes, Stan, but you missed the comma after 'apostrophes'!

When did Aussie Miller go Chevrolet? Surely that was 1960?


touche ..Ray.. (accent grav over the "e")...errr I don't know how to do that on a keyboard.

The Miller Cooper ran as a 2.2 climax in the pre-Tasman Warwick Farm International on that stinking hot day in Jan/Feb 1961.
Certainly by March 1962 it ran at the opening Sandown meeting with Corvette power and was singularly unimpressive.

Interestingly, Summers' car seemed to be much more successful on circuits that Miller's - I think it is true to say Sandown was ithe latter's only circuit appearance even - but I could be wrong.

Derek


#12 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 22:19

9 Jacques Maglia perhaps Lotus 22 J-25
12 Denis O'Sullivan, Lotus 22 in 1964
15 Goodwin, Lola Mk2-BMC in March 1964
17 is George or Gerry Mehary, had a Cooper T56 in 1964

Good thread topic!

hang seng lee raced at Phoenix Park , often wondered was he really from the Orient.
Dennis o,sullivan , from Cork Ireland, I have his entry form fromTHE Park , will check details , INCIDENTALLY HIS DAUGHTER IS A WELL KNOWN SINGER IN iRELAND AND BEYOND.

#13 D-Type

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 22:31

While we're playing "Who's the most pedantic?", can I point out that é is aigu and è is grave and I can't remember what ê is. And I subscribe to 60's meaning either "sixties" or "sixty's" depending on the context.

But what do I know? I was taught English in Africa by a combination of Irish missionaries and an American teacher.

If anybody knows how to do accents on a keyboard please tell me. I use WORD and "Insert > symbol" then copy and paste it.

#14 David Shaw

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 02:57

While we're playing "Who's the most pedantic?", can I point out that é is aigu and è is grave and I can't remember what ê is. And I subscribe to 60's meaning either "sixties" or "sixty's" depending on the context.

But what do I know? I was taught English in Africa by a combination of Irish missionaries and an American teacher.

If anybody knows how to do accents on a keyboard please tell me. I use WORD and "Insert > symbol" then copy and paste it.


With Word for a grave you hold down CTRL, press ` (which is to the left of the number 1 at the top) and then the letter.
For an aigu you hold down CTRL, press ' (apostrophe) and then the letter.

It doesn't appear to work here though.





#15 David McKinney

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 05:52

I can't remember what ê is

circumflex :)


#16 David McKinney

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 06:01

hang seng lee raced at Phoenix Park , often wondered was he really from the Orient

Lee Han Seng was from Singapore
He returned home after his UK season and was one of the leading players in southeast Asian races for the next few years, in Lotus and Brabham single-seaters, a Lotus 23 sportscar and a Lotus-Cortina saloon


#17 petestenning

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 06:27

Success you guys are marvellous thats one complete list of driver with first names no done , and getting a way nicely with Chassis model types .

Thank you all :wave:

Now whats next ?

In a few days i have another programme arriving to my collection and will put that up fr scrutiny, lets see what that brings up.

Incicently i was at Snetterton the day Chris Summers was killed , i was a marshal at the kink on the Norwich straight that day if memory serves me right was he still using that Cooper Chevrolet then ?




Pete

#18 Barry Boor

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 07:00

Not relevant but I have a picture of Jacques Maglia in an Alexis, taken at the Monaco F.3 race in 1965.

Posted Image

Sorry to be wandering off....

#19 RAP

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 07:11

I was at Brands that day. Ewer, C-Stuart, H S Lee, Baker, O'Sullivan, Hatter were non starters. Raby was in a Cooper T56, Mew's Lotus was his ex-FJ 20 with a 4 cyl Climax engine. With regards to Chris Summers, he had a Lotus 24 Chev after the Cooper.

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#20 Derek Pitt

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 07:44

Not relevant but I have a picture of Jacques Maglia in an Alexis, taken at the Monaco F.3 race in 1965.


Sorry to be wandering off....


Two striking things about that pic to me are:

  • I would have said it was a Brabham unless otherwise told and,
  • the rollbar looks next to useless

Derek



#21 Barry Boor

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 08:19

Derek, I think you would find ALL roll bars in those days to be useless!

#22 petestenning

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 08:33

From first hand experience of an historic F3 some years ago when i was on duty at Clearways at Brands when one of the rearward facing brace bars was removed and a car rolled the roll hoop colapsed and the driver was lucky to escape unscathed as it landed upside down in the gravel .

As i understand it these got in the way of engine repairs etc so i can understand how fragile that car must have been in 65 .


Pete

#23 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 10:52

hang seng lee raced at Phoenix Park , often wondered was he really from the Orient.
Dennis o,sullivan , from Cork Ireland, I have his entry form fromTHE Park , will check details , INCIDENTALLY HIS DAUGHTER IS A WELL KNOWN SINGER IN iRELAND AND BEYOND.


1964 Phoenix Park entry from for Denis E O'Sullivan, entrant Baldyne Enginering, car Brabham , year of manufacture 1963, no chassis number, engine Ford Holbay.
races in which car has finished in the past year .Mallory Park , Gerrards Trophy, 1st, 1st at Snetterton in early july 64.
drivers racing expierence 5x1sts, 4x2nds,4x3rds, first season of racing 1963.

#24 David McKinney

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 11:21

1964 Phoenix Park entry from for Denis E O'Sullivan, entrant Baldyne Enginering, car Brabham , year of manufacture 1963, no chassis number

I could have told him it was FJ-12-63 :lol:


#25 Chris Townsend

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 14:12

1964 Phoenix Park entry from for Denis E O'Sullivan, entrant Baldyne Enginering, car Brabham , year of manufacture 1963, no chassis number, engine Ford Holbay.
races in which car has finished in the past year .Mallory Park , Gerrards Trophy, 1st, 1st at Snetterton in early july 64.
drivers racing expierence 5x1sts, 4x2nds,4x3rds, first season of racing 1963.


Edward, do you have many entry forms from the Park...?
Those relating to the Atlantic years could be very interesting to Mr Allen Brown and myself.


#26 petestenning

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 16:11

My latest edition to my programmes throw up some questions , lol lets start with the entry;-

Mallory Park 13th october 1963, BRSCC

Race 5

Formula Libre Race 20 Laps

24 Auto Racing Services Jack Pearce Lotus 1584
25 Mo Nunn Cooper 1500
38 Graham Eden Cooper Arden 1499
44 John Taylor Cooper 1498
49 Alan Eccles Cooper 1498
121 Auto Racing Services W.Bradley Lotus 23 1594
120 D.Graham C.Martyn Elva MK7 1594
3 Denis O'Sulivan BrabahmBT6 1098
7 Anglo Scottish Racing team Charlie Crichton-Stuart Cooper T67 1098
15 David Baker Lola MK5 1098
22 J.Williams Lotus22 1098
23 Harrison & Sons David Wragg Cooper T59 1098
39 H.W.Epps Norman Surtees Lotus Elite 1216
97 Team Tourist Trophy J.G.Adams Jaguar 3781
98 Equipe Elva Steven Minoprio Elva MK 7 1098
100 Ecurie Freeze A.Moffatt Gilby 1098
106 Ecurie Freeze T.Bone Lotus 23 1098
107 Peter Gethin Lotus 23 1098
123 ?????? Lotus ???


The top 5 were printed in the programme the remainder are what is pencilled in as the other runners from the previous races that day. However there are a few questions marks .

There are two no's 44 listed Both would be John Taylor no 44 fronm the F Junior race + the climax version at the top of the list.
Car 123 is not printed in the programme at all but going by the numbering of the other races i would guess it was a GT Car possibly another Lotus 23 ?


#27 scheivlak

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 16:32

circumflex :)

'circonflexe' to be precise  ;)

#28 Tim Murray

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 16:51

'Circumflex' is the correct spelling in English. I'm puzzled, though, by 'aigu' for this accent - é. I was taught, and my dictionary confirms, that it's an 'acute' accent. My dictionary has nothing on 'aigu'. Could this be what it's called in another language?

#29 bradbury west

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 19:33

My dictionary has nothing on 'aigu'. Could this be what it's called in another language?

It is a simple masculine adjective, with the female ending in U and an e with a tramar,(spelling?), 2 dots over it. Larousse gives its simplest meaning as "sharp, pointed", with pointu/e as an alternative. There are several other meanings, dependent upon circumstance; piercing, shrill, treble, screaming etc, but for grammatical use it cites "acute"
Gets off soap box and exits left
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 16 June 2009 - 19:34.


#30 Tim Murray

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 19:49

Thanks, Roger. :up:

#31 Derek Pitt

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 21:00

My latest edition to my programmes throw up some questions , lol lets start with the entry;-

Mallory Park 13th october 1963, BRSCC

Race 5

Formula Libre Race 20 Laps

24 Auto Racing Services Jack Pearce Lotus 1584
25 Mo Nunn Cooper 1500
38 Graham Eden Cooper Arden 1499
44 John Taylor Cooper 1498
49 Alan Eccles Cooper 1498
121 Auto Racing Services W.Bradley Lotus 23 1594
120 D.Graham C.Martyn Elva MK7 1594
3 Denis O'Sulivan BrabahmBT6 1098
7 Anglo Scottish Racing team Charlie Crichton-Stuart Cooper T67 1098
15 David Baker Lola MK5 1098
22 J.Williams Lotus22 1098
23 Harrison & Sons David Wragg Cooper T59 1098
39 H.W.Epps Norman Surtees Lotus Elite 1216
97 Team Tourist Trophy J.G.Adams Jaguar 3781
98 Equipe Elva Steven Minoprio Elva MK 7 1098
100 Ecurie Freeze A.Moffatt Gilby 1098
106 Ecurie Freeze T.Bone Lotus 23 1098
107 Peter Gethin Lotus 23 1098
123 ?????? Lotus ???


The top 5 were printed in the programme the remainder are what is pencilled in as the other runners from the previous races that day. However there are a few questions marks .

There are two no's 44 listed Both would be John Taylor no 44 fronm the F Junior race + the climax version at the top of the list.
Car 123 is not printed in the programme at all but going by the numbering of the other races i would guess it was a GT Car possibly another Lotus 23 ?


Well Pete,

I suspect D Graham would be Doug Graham who was quite a handy driver of a 2 litre Lotus 15 in Uk at a national level in 1959/60 - although i am not aware of his careeer after the Lotus.

A Moffat- there was a driver in Australia by this name - Allen Moffat an ex-pat Canadian - unfortunately he was part of the touring car cult and never progressed to serious motor racing, but I had an idea he might have unsuccessly dabbled in racing in UK prior to his arrival out here in 1964 whereupon he became a cult High Priest.

Derek

#32 petestenning

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 21:23

If i had to guess i would have plumpt for Alan Moffatt, and W Bradley as Bill ,but i dont know why just something at the back of my mind.



Pete



#33 David McKinney

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 21:56

DP's post led me to look more closely at that Elva entry
Doug Graham and Chris Martyn had both been Lotus 15 men in earlier years

AFAIK any racing Allan Moffat did before descending on Australia was in North America

#34 David Shaw

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 22:44

DP's post led me to look more closely at that Elva entry
Doug Graham and Chris Martyn had both been Lotus 15 men in earlier years

AFAIK any racing Allan Moffat did before descending on Australia was in North America


Somewhere in the back of my mind comes the memory of Moffat having his first forays into motor sport in a Triumph somewhere in Victoria, possibly while at university?

Don't recall him driving in the UK, but as you mentioned drove blue oval products in North America.


#35 Derek Pitt

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 23:11

Somewhere in the back of my mind comes the memory of Moffat having his first forays into motor sport in a Triumph somewhere in Victoria, possibly while at university?

Don't recall him driving in the UK, but as you mentioned drove blue oval products in North America.


Yes David,

Moffat raced a TR3A in Victoria circa 1963 and drove a Lotus Cortina in the 1964 Sandown 6 hours (I think it was called that).

I had the misfortune to be a spectator at the first-mentioned event but naturally, avoided the latter - which for me was notable for two things only - one , Frank Matich drove a 3.4 Mk 1 Jaguar and Bib Stillwell was part of the TV commentary team.

Incidently, BSS' comments re touring car racing on that occasion remain iconic to this day and rank alongside Sir Jack's similar comments on TV when interviewd before this year's AGP.

Derek





#36 bradbury west

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 23:33

Bill Bradley as in works Triumph Spitfires 63/65ish perhaps.

BTW, whilst you are all looking through programmes, any info on any DRWs entered in sports car or clubmans type races would be well received here, FFord and Special GTs post 68 also, in case there are still some which I do not have
Roger Lund

#37 petestenning

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 06:05

Yes there are a couple of DRW'S entered in another race at this meeting let me see if i can find it ;-


Sports Car Race Up to 1000cc 15 laps
124 J.D.A. Bromilow or J.C.Claydon DRW 997
125 A.J.Youlton DRW MK2 997
126 J.F.Wilson Ginetta G4 997
127 R.J.Fenton J.M.T. 948
128 P.C.O.Roberts Lotus 11 997 RES 2
129 R.H.H.Barneby Lotus 7 997
130 J.C.Salmon Lotus 7 997
131 D.R.Driver Lotus 7 997 RES 1
132 S.P.Lane Lotus 7 997
133 T.Moore Lotus 7 997
135 C.J.Clark Lotus 7A 997
136 R.H.Bell Lotus 7 997
137 K.W.Bailey Lotus 7 997
138 M.P.Phillipe Lotus 7 997 RES 3
139 T.Herbent Lotus 7 997
140 H.C.Goodwin John Cardwell Lotus 7 997
142 N.H.Wilson Lotus 7 997
143 Brooklands Service Garage David Wragg Mallock U2 997
144 Robert Meacham Terrier MK2 997
145 South Harpenden Mtr M.M.Bell Terrier Sports 997



Jeremy Clayden ? and Antony Youlton ? by any chance.

Pete

Edited by petestenning, 17 June 2009 - 06:06.


#38 bradbury west

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 06:49

Many thanks
John Claydon, about whom I have been able to find very little
John Bromilow
Anthony Youlten with an e, often spelled wrongly in articles and entries, but his widow's letterhead and signature, and his own National Identiity Registration Form from his 1950 call-up papers show e n. I was fortunate enough to receive many of his papers plus a detailed race diary from 1958 to 1966 from his widow's estate.
Richard Barneby
Bobby Bell
Ken? Bailey
Maurice Phillippe

Roger Lund

#39 petestenning

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 07:22

Yes programme errors are a bain of this sort of work odd variations of Lotus like loius, or louts lol appear from time to time also .

I was not sure if that K.W. Bailey is the same one who was Derek Lawrences teammate with Titan Formula Fords in the early 70's .

And yes i have seen Youlton/Youlten spelt both ways.


Pete




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#40 Chris Townsend

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 09:17

Yes programme errors are a bain of this sort of work odd variations of Lotus like loius, or louts lol appear from time to time also .

I was not sure if that K.W. Bailey is the same one who was Derek Lawrences teammate with Titan Formula Fords in the early 70's .

And yes i have seen Youlton/Youlten spelt both ways.


Pete


I don't think that K.W.Bailey is the Ken Bailey from Manchester who raced F.Ford and Atlantic - he started in F.Ford I think.
I have an email somewhere...

#41 petestenning

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 20:38

Any idea on what the J.M.T was ?

Here is a sort of Libre race from Silverstone 1967 Oct 14 th, All single Seaters including 3 Historics .




Race 7 Single Seaters in 4 classes
Historic Racing Cars
21 Sid Beer MG K3 1086
22 H C Spero Maserati 250F 2500
23 Frank Lockhart Rover Special 2638
Modern Racing Cars
15 Motor Racing Stables Tetsu Ikusawa Brabham BT21 997
10 J Campbell Brabham BT18 997
12 Bob King Brabham BT18 997
4 L Parsons Brabham BT10/15 997
9 L Ward Brabham BT15 997
26 Mike Costin Brabham BT 1594
27 Rob Littler Cooper 3A 1598
28 C Smedley Mallock U2 1600
29 Pete Hawtin Lola Cobra 4727
30 Julien Gerrard Cooper T73 1598
31 Richard Grant Properties Ltd Johnnie Ward JW 4/2 650
54 Jim Charnock Cooper Cobra 4727
Monoposta Formula
32 Trevor Scarrett Cooper MK2 994
33 R K Somerton Merlyn 997
34 Brian Jordan Lotus 32 997
35 Eddie Heasell Lotus 20 997
36 Len Gibbs Lotus 31 997
37 Michael Irons Micron 998
38 C A R Elwell Cooper 998
39 Gerry Meharey Cooper MK2 1475
40 Johnnie Derisley Lotus 22/31 1498
41 Jim Yardley Beagle 1498
43 D A S Colvin Lotus 18 1498
44 J Wood Cooper 1498
45 J Green Merlyn 1498
47 Len Holland Lola 1500
48 Brian Toft Anco 1500
49 R Terry Terrier 1498
Formula Ford
51 Racehire Ltd D Green Dulon 1498
52 P J Kimberley Alexis 1498
53 Arthur Mallock Mallock U2 MK6 1498


Two V8 engined cars Pete Hawtins Lola Cobra &
Jim Charnock Cooper Cobra
2 Coopers and a Brabham 1.6 + a Mallock U2
Hordes of Monoposto's Including Jim Yardleys Beagle creation , 5 various Loti.




Pete

Edited by petestenning, 17 June 2009 - 20:39.


#42 bradbury west

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 21:22

Any idea on what the J.M.T was ?Pete

An 1172 special built 53/54ish by John Teychne, of Progress Chassis fame, sold unraced in 1955 to Len Terry, who soldiered on with it for 2 or 3 years, altering it as he went, before he sold it to build his first Terrier.
Roger Lund


#43 petestenning

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 10:19

An 1172 special built 53/54ish by John Teychne, of Progress Chassis fame, sold unraced in 1955 to Len Terry, who soldiered on with it for 2 or 3 years, altering it as he went, before he sold it to build his first Terrier.
Roger Lund



Thanks for that information Roger.

Its seems that a common thing was for several F3 drivers to enter the Libre events in the 60's , Now today they would use it as a practice for the main race and non start the libre race.

Was it the fact that F3 cars the 1.0 litre in perticular were fast enough to feature at the front at that time or is there another reason they entered so many .? or was it that there was a lack of testing availible at those times .?



Pete

#44 CLR

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 16:02

Thanks for that information Roger.

Its seems that a common thing was for several F3 drivers to enter the Libre events in the 60's , Now today they would use it as a practice for the main race and non start the libre race.

Was it the fact that F3 cars the 1.0 litre in perticular were fast enough to feature at the front at that time or is there another reason they entered so many .? or was it that there was a lack of testing availible at those times .?



Pete


Perhaps the reason was the huge F3 grids, two heats and a final. I suppose if you didnt make the final you could still do the FL event. I attended many F3 events and continue to think it was the very best racing of all time. Engines from several builders that gave very similar power; lots of different chassis. No silly wings or bald tyres!
Nowadays, all the one make series makes for for very little technical interest

Kevin Whittle


#45 petestenning

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 16:32

Perhaps the reason was the huge F3 grids, two heats and a final. I suppose if you didnt make the final you could still do the FL event. I attended many F3 events and continue to think it was the very best racing of all time. Engines from several builders that gave very similar power; lots of different chassis. No silly wings or bald tyres!
Nowadays, all the one make series makes for for very little technical interest

Kevin Whittle



I could not agree more todays strangled one make F3 is a poor shadow of its once great format. Todays may be quicker and stick like glue , but the sheer spectacle and might i say bravado of the 1.0 period is long gone.
The slipstreamers were something to behold and todays cars cant do that because of the aerodynamics of modern racing cars.


Pete

#46 MCS

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 16:42

29 Pete Hawtin Lola Cobra 4727


Terrific! I just knew he'd be here at some point.

What on earth was the "Lola Cobra" ??


#47 RAP

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 17:38

Thanks for that information Roger.

Its seems that a common thing was for several F3 drivers to enter the Libre events in the 60's , Now today they would use it as a practice for the main race and non start the libre race.

Was it the fact that F3 cars the 1.0 litre in perticular were fast enough to feature at the front at that time or is there another reason they entered so many .? or was it that there was a lack of testing availible at those times .?



Pete

Perhaps because they enjoyed it ??????

#48 petestenning

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 18:45

Perhaps because they enjoyed it ??????



That is a very good point indeed :)

#49 bradbury west

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 19:24

Perhaps because they enjoyed it ??????

Absolutely. Looking back to the 50s and early 60s it was commonplace for events to have a handicap race as the last event on the programme. Many competitors entered that along with their customary races simply to have another race, as Richard says " because they enjoyed it" The state of their car after their own race usually determined whether they made the handicap event. Certainly at Goodwood there were some humdingers of handicap races, and at one time- certainly 1961- handicap races counted towards the Motor Sport Brooklands Memorial Trophy series. Perhaps FL races just replaced those races as allcomers' races, which similar races had often been called.
Roger Lund

#50 petestenning

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 19:49

Absolutely. Looking back to the 50s and early 60s it was commonplace for events to have a handicap race as the last event on the programme. Many competitors entered that along with their customary races simply to have another race, as Richard says " because they enjoyed it" The state of their car after their own race usually determined whether they made the handicap event. Certainly at Goodwood there were some humdingers of handicap races, and at one time- certainly 1961- handicap races counted towards the Motor Sport Brooklands Memorial Trophy series. Perhaps FL races just replaced those races as allcomers' races, which similar races had often been called.
Roger Lund



If you got inclement weather that also threw up some supprising tussles, One early 70's race at a wet Snetterton saw John Jordan's GT40 being hounded by Adrian Wilkins Chevron single seater , poss an F2 or Atlantic which only just failed to win as the GT40 just had enough to get to the line first but not by much.


Pete