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#51 GD66

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 14:51

Yes it is Peter, as you're no doubt aware several of George's F5000 single seaters carried the FM designation because of Fred's involvement in design and construction. As Tony's pointed out the Frepins preceded the Roberts TZ lowboy chassis by a couple of years.

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#52 kz71

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:02

Re the Frepin, is that the same Fred McLean who worked with George Begg? He did great work on the cars and the frames look pretty slick.


Fred also did the PDL Mustang. Very clever engineer.
I watched him building these frames, great fabrications man.
He raced cars in GB in the 60's (F3 I think).
I think Pete was working with Fred on the PDL car also.
Fred got into homebuilt planes and died when he crashed his plane in bad weather.

#53 GD66

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:29

Fred also did the PDL Mustang. Very clever engineer.
I watched him building these frames, great fabrications man.





Cheers Mike, if that's the case then would you know how many Frepins were built?
Nobody seems to know, but I believe Murray De Lacy has one under way, so that's four we know of without the 500.

#54 kz71

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 23:32

Cheers Mike, if that's the case then would you know how many Frepins were built?
Nobody seems to know, but I believe Murray De Lacy has one under way, so that's four we know of without the 500.



No I don't know that.
Pete P
would know. I wonder what happened to him.
Last I heard, he went back to UK and was working with his bro importing US car stuff.
Pete Donaldson has organised a 'do' featuring Stu Avant and me (old farts waffling about GPs, type of deal) for Sept 7th.
I reckon someone may be there who knows more of Fred ( I can think of one in particular) so will ask around.

#55 tonyed

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:32

No I don't know that.
Pete P
would know. I wonder what happened to him.
Last I heard, he went back to UK and was working with his bro importing US car stuff.
Pete Donaldson has organised a 'do' featuring Stu Avant and me (old farts waffling about GPs, type of deal) for Sept 7th.
I reckon someone may be there who knows more of Fred ( I can think of one in particular) so will ask around.


I have tried to track down Peter Pinion but without success.

I was looking through an Oulton Park program from 17th March 1973 and Peter is entered on 350 Yamaha. I raced with Peter numerous times in the early 70s or at least in the same meeting but different class. This time at Oulton I was aboard my 672cc ex-works BSA Spitfire (what a mistake that bike was), a year later when I had the chance to buy an ex Rod Gould Yamaha I couldn't give the damn thing away. :| Wish I had it now though :well:

Edited by tonyed, 14 July 2013 - 05:33.


#56 philippe7

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 19:21

Pete Donaldson has organised a 'do' featuring Stu Avant and me (old farts waffling about GPs, type of deal) for Sept 7th.


Where is this happening, Mike ?

#57 peterd

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 22:56

Christchurch, September 7, Phillippe. Any flights out of New Caledonia?


#58 philippe7

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:35

Hi Peter

I wish ! Who knows ?

#59 robinmck

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:55

Here is Stu's old TZ750, currently for sale in Auckland

http://www.trademe.c...n-630261406.htm



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#60 RC162

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 18:42

Went to the Trophees Gerard Jumeaux held at the Circuit Carole just north of Paris last weekend and saw this little bike.  The fairing had Motobecane on it but I wish I had had the chance to talk to the owner and find out a bit more about it but hopefully there will be someone on here who knows what it is. Pretty sure it's a 125 but anyone any knowledge on this one ?

 

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#61 RC162

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 18:44

Why is it cutting off half of the picture ?



#62 RC162

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 18:47

CC3_zps4934a776.jpg



#63 RC162

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 18:48

Ok well hopefully that's sorted so here's the pictures.

 

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#64 philippe7

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:35

It certainly is a 125 Motobécane , it's a machine built by Motobécane enthusiast Bernard Deleuze, based upon the first version of the factory racer ( around 1974 I would say ) whose engine was a watercooled and improved version of the road going twin. But Bernard's machine has a lot of self-made improvements, such as the turned around cylinders with forward facing carbs etc.... to clarify things it has nothing in common with the Grand Prix bike of later years which was raced by Thierry Espié and Guy Bertin with a bit of success  in the late 70's  - that one had a pure racing engine designed from scratch by Jean Bidalot.  



#65 RC162

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 18:04

It certainly is a 125 Motobécane , it's a machine built by Motobécane enthusiast Bernard Deleuze, based upon the first version of the factory racer ( around 1974 I would say ) whose engine was a watercooled and improved version of the road going twin. But Bernard's machine has a lot of self-made improvements, such as the turned around cylinders with forward facing carbs etc.... to clarify things it has nothing in common with the Grand Prix bike of later years which was raced by Thierry Espié and Guy Bertin with a bit of success  in the late 70's  - that one had a pure racing engine designed from scratch by Jean Bidalot.  

 

Many thanks for the information Philippe.  Does Bernard Deleuze still have this machine as there was a short, elderly gentleman with long white hair who was working on the bike during the weekend.  Just in case you would like to see how the track is at Carole here is some on bike footage I took during one of the dry Sunday sessions.     It comes up in 360p but you can improve it to 480p for a bettter picture.  Once again many thanks.



#66 philippe7

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 21:30

The elderly gentleman with long white hair might well be Bernard himself

 

He made two websites about his ventures, the earlier one is here

http://125deleuze.fr...lcome/index.php

and the later one ( due to the first one being "full" )

http://www.deleuzeracingteam.fr/

but they are in french of course and not too user friendly IMHO

 

There also was a dedicated thread on the french pit-lane.biz forum open by Bernard himself

http://www.pit-lane....liquide-deleuze

and also this (long) thread about 125 Motobécane racers of all sorts but this includes many different concepts over the years . You'll find the one with the most similar engine to Bernard's machine is the watercooled factory racer pictured with Eric Offensatdt on board in 1974 

http://www.pit-lane....autres-derivees

That should make for a couple of hours of reading ! :wave:

 

 

Oh, and thank you for the video ! Carole is the only circuit where I ever put my wheels ( it was originally built in the mid seventies as a free-access circuit to divert motorcyclists from racing in the streets or on self-made "pirate" circuits, like the one in the fruit and vegetable market of Rungis...) . It is also the place where, after a couple of dozens of laps acting as a mobile chicane, I realised that I had better forget my dreams of becoming a Grand Prix star and stick to spectating and reading magazines :lol:


Edited by philippe7, 20 September 2013 - 03:14.


#67 Paul Collins

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 00:07

 

Oh, and thank you for the video ! Carole is the only circuit where I ever put my wheels ( it was originally built in the mid seventies as a free-access circuit to divert motorcyclists from racing in the streets or on self-made "pirate" circuits, like the one in the fruit and vegetable market of Rungis...) . It is also the place where, after a couple of dozens of laps acting as a mobile chicane, I realised that I had better forget my dreams of becoming a Grand Prix star and stick to spectating and reading magazines :lol:

 

Philippe  i'm sure I read a long time ago that Carole was named in memory of someone who had died in an accident on one of the 'pirate' circuits and that particular accident had directly led to the building of the circuit?



#68 T54

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:18

Bernard Deleuze is a good personal friend and a terrific guy, very enthusiastic and very generous. He recently helped me to retrieve and ship an old racing bike I built in 1968 that was in an auction in France. Thanks to his kindness the bike is now on its way to the USA where I plan to restore it the way it was when I built it.
Bernard has more than the 125cc Motobecane racer (a beautiful machine considering the fact it was built with very little money), he is also trying to finish his Derbi GP he raced in the early 1970s. He is a very good machinist and also makes his own castings as needed.

More like him, I don't mind!

T54

(the "other" Philippe!   ;)  )



#69 philippe7

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:19

Philippe  i'm sure I read a long time ago that Carole was named in memory of someone who had died in an accident on one of the 'pirate' circuits and that particular accident had directly led to the building of the circuit?

 

 

The first part of the statement is absolutely correct, it was named after a young woman who was the last in a long list of victims of the infamous Rungis "circuit" where parisian motorcyclists used to gather on friday evenings for wild runs that too often ended in tears .

 

But it would be stretching things a little to say that this particular death led to the building of the circuit, it had been a long process and the results of many years of challenging the authorities with two-wheeled demonstrations that often gathered thousands of bikes in the streets of Paris and other big french towns. This circuit, and the setting up of a "mutual" insurance scheme, with affordable tariffs, were the two major gains of those years of "fighting" ( that I proudly took part into :blush: ).



#70 Paul Collins

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:59

The first part of the statement is absolutely correct, it was named after a young woman who was the last in a long list of victims of the infamous Rungis "circuit" where parisian motorcyclists used to gather on friday evenings for wild runs that too often ended in tears .

 

But it would be stretching things a little to say that this particular death led to the building of the circuit, it had been a long process and the results of many years of challenging the authorities with two-wheeled demonstrations that often gathered thousands of bikes in the streets of Paris and other big french towns. This circuit, and the setting up of a "mutual" insurance scheme, with affordable tariffs, were the two major gains of those years of "fighting" ( that I proudly took part into :blush: ).

Thanks for the clarification Philippe, did the unofficial races at Rungis follow the same route/roads as the official meeting held there which I vagely remember taking place in the early 70's?



#71 Classicpics

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 19:12

http://didphotograph...3943718_SC254P#!i=1943224773&k=jQrZqvR

 

Can anyone tell me what Sammy is riding?

 

Please copy all the link


Edited by Classicpics, 21 September 2013 - 19:13.


#72 GD66

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 22:21

Moto Guzzi Bicylindrica. And I bet it sounds cracking !



#73 TeeZed

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 23:53

Hi Gents,

 

I was very surprised to see the thread I start in 2009 is still active. I thought it was time I posted another picture.  For all the Yamaha fans, here is ten years of 'All White With a Red Stripe':

 

TZsampMore005_zps7f359d82.jpg

 

........1978 TZ350E, 1982 TZ250J & 1988, TZ250U.

 

I'm currently working on bringing a 1987 Honda, RS125R back from the dead.  It has been a difficult project because many parts were unique to that one year.  

 

Don  


Edited by TeeZed, 22 September 2013 - 23:55.


#74 RC162

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:50

Hi Gents,

 

I was very surprised to see the thread I start in 2009 is still active. I thought it was time I posted another picture.  For all the Yamaha fans, here is ten years of 'All White With a Red Stripe':

 

TZsampMore005_zps7f359d82.jpg

 

........1978 TZ350E, 1982 TZ250J & 1988, TZ250U.

 

I'm currently working on bringing a 1987 Honda, RS125R back from the dead.  It has been a difficult project because many parts were unique to that one year.  

 

Don  

 

I just love the matching bike stands !



#75 TZ350H

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 20:57

Hi Gents,

 

I was very surprised to see the thread I start in 2009 is still active. I thought it was time I posted another picture.  For all the Yamaha fans, here is ten years of 'All White With a Red Stripe':

 

TZsampMore005_zps7f359d82.jpg

 

........1978 TZ350E, 1982 TZ250J & 1988, TZ250U.

 

I'm currently working on bringing a 1987 Honda, RS125R back from the dead.  It has been a difficult project because many parts were unique to that one year.  

 

Don  

 

Don, thanks for posting this.  The bikes are drop dead gorgeous.  I just cant stop looking at them particularly the E and J.  Would just love to blip those throttles!



#76 GD66

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:21

Nice to hear from you, Don. :wave:

 

As we're on Yamahas in the "Survived" thread, this pic from Amaroo Park 1971 shows two NZ riders, Dave Keenan on the left, and Trevor Discombe on the right. Dave bought his TD2 new in Sydney in 1970.

discombeamaroo71.jpg

 

Believe it or not, Dave has raced his TD2 every year since, and is still racing it to this day : surely some kind of record !

Still racing, and still quick : hats off ! :clap:

1p4n.jpg


Edited by GD66, 23 September 2013 - 23:22.


#77 TeeZed

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:19

Thanks for your kind words Gents,

 

I realize some might consider this blasphemous, but at the moment the TZ/E is set-up as a reed valved, TZ375:

 

TZ-E373002.jpg

 

..........half a TZ750.

 

Don  



#78 Paul Collins

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 13:19

Nothing wrong with that Don, I ran a 373 top end very successfully in the early 80's, it lacked a bit of top end speed but pulled really well, ideal on twisty circuits but not so good if there was a long straight.

 

Is your 2 strokes forum still active? I cant get onto the forums page anymore is it on a new url?



#79 TeeZed

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 13:34

Hi Paul,

 

You are absolutely right about the 373 set-up.

 

Yes, North American Two-Strokes site/ forum is still growing.  Many interesting projects going on at all times.  Try this:  http://2stroker.crea...rumhosting.com/

That will take you directly to the forum page.  Thanks for asking.

 

Don  



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#80 Paul Collins

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 21:44

Hi Paul,

 

You are absolutely right about the 373 set-up.

 

Yes, North American Two-Strokes site/ forum is still growing.  Many interesting projects going on at all times.  Try this:  http://2stroker.crea...rumhosting.com/

That will take you directly to the forum page.  Thanks for asking.

 

Don  

 

Thanks Don



#81 tonyed

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:35

Another thing about fitting a reed valve top end is it keeps the bike so much cleaner reducing to almost nothing the 'blow back' from a non reed valve, non-crankcase induction top end, and you could run legally in the 500 class without the excentric (351) crankpins or blue fablon conversion :rolleyes: we've had so much fun with on another website (Don).  



#82 RC162

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 18:09

It certainly is a 125 Motobécane , it's a machine built by Motobécane enthusiast Bernard Deleuze, based upon the first version of the factory racer ( around 1974 I would say ) whose engine was a watercooled and improved version of the road going twin. But Bernard's machine has a lot of self-made improvements, such as the turned around cylinders with forward facing carbs etc.... to clarify things it has nothing in common with the Grand Prix bike of later years which was raced by Thierry Espié and Guy Bertin with a bit of success  in the late 70's  - that one had a pure racing engine designed from scratch by Jean Bidalot.  

 

Hi Philippe

                    There is a good video of the event at Carole on YouTube which includes footage of Bernard Deleuze.  He appears at 12 mins 10 secs in video and at 20 mins 48 secs in two photos.   Here's a link.