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CVC and F1


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#251 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 05:08

This article implies that one of the major factors in the ousting of Mosley was that CVC were very afraid of what the breakway would mean for them, and so leaned heavily on Ecclestone to side with the teams:

The lever that got Mosley out was the pressure from the main owners of Formula One, CVC Capital Partners as represented by Bernie Ecclestone, the commercial rights-holder, who feared that their investment was in danger of being severely damaged by the breakaway. Ecclestone, together with Luca Di Montezemolo, the Ferrari president who led the revolt, met Mosley in Paris before a meeting of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council and told him that his game was up.

See? CVC aren't the resident Wolfram & Hart of Formula One. Going by some of the early reports out of Germany, FOTA now gets a bigger cut of the commercial takings, apparently a peace offering between CVC and FOTA. Not blood money as so many of you assume.

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#252 Madras

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 06:14

This article implies that one of the major factors in the ousting of Mosley was that CVC were very afraid of what the breakway would mean for them, and so leaned heavily on Ecclestone to side with the teams:

See? CVC aren't the resident Wolfram & Hart of Formula One. Going by some of the early reports out of Germany, FOTA now gets a bigger cut of the commercial takings, apparently a peace offering between CVC and FOTA. Not blood money as so many of you assume.


They only did that because they were crapping their pants.

#253 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 06:22

They only did that because they were crapping their pants.

So if ever somebody does something bad, it's because they choose to. But if they do something good, it was because they were forced to?

Nice try, but that's misanthropy, not cynicism.

#254 Madras

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 06:24

So if ever somebody does something bad, it's because they choose to. But if they do something good, it was because they were forced to?

Nice try, but that's misanthropy, not cynicism.


I'm sorry, why are you extrapolating what I said for everything?

#255 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 06:53

I'm sorry, why are you extrapolating what I said for everything?

I'm just questioning where it is you're coming from. Ever since it was announced that F1 and FOTA will not be breaking away, people suddenly seem to think CVC are evil because there is no chance FOTA can get their hands on the commercial rights.

#256 Orin

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 07:38

So if ever somebody does something bad, it's because they choose to. But if they do something good, it was because they were forced to?

Nice try, but that's misanthropy, not cynicism.


So your theory is that CVC acted "for the good of the fans"? :lol:

#257 kar

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 07:46

I'm just questioning where it is you're coming from. Ever since it was announced that F1 and FOTA will not be breaking away, people suddenly seem to think CVC are evil because there is no chance FOTA can get their hands on the commercial rights.


CVC are evil because they only take from the sport and invest nothing into it.

But that doesn't mean there's no chance FOTA can't get their hands on the commercial rights. I think this Mosley exercise has helped wake everyone up to just who provides the value in F1. And it aint CVC...

2012, or Bernie keels over, that's when we'll see what Armageddon looks like.

#258 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:09

CVC are evil because they only take from the sport and invest nothing into it.

Actually, invest in Formula One is exactly what CVC did. They're venture capitalists; it's what they do. They provide the money up-front for ventures that are considered to have high potential, but often come with some risk, moreso than the usual enterprise.

CVC provided Ecclesone with the money to acquire the rights to Formula One, and under him, the sport has expanded to nearly every continent and major car market at one point or another, and he's consistently branching out into new markets like India and South Korea to reach new markets and audiences. Races are held on world-class circuits, the broadcast is syndicated, providing uniform coverage to the world. Without Ecclestone and CVC's backing, Formula One would struggle to expand its boundaries - I doubt the sport would have ever gone to America at all without him - as circuits would fight one another for the rights to host races. There would be little in the way of continuity from one season to the next as races would come and go at a whim, while coverage of the races would be inconsistent with broadcasters only showing races as they chose. With CVC's money, Ecclestone tied everything up into one neat package, and if it's expensive to host a race, it's because the fee represents a commitment from race organisers. It's gotten a little out of control as potential races out-bid one another, but it's solid theory. It's better than the organisations side being reduced to in-fighting from one round to the next.

#259 kar

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:16

Actually, invest in Formula One is exactly what CVC did. They're venture capitalists; it's what they do. They provide the money up-front for ventures that are considered to have high potential, but often come with some risk, moreso than the usual enterprise.

CVC provided Ecclesone with the money to acquire the rights to Formula One


How much of that money flowed into the sport? How much of that money permitted F1 to grow? F1 has actually declined since CVC took over if we look at F1's audience numbers. We go to places no one much really wants to go, and no one actually attends. We don't have races at tracks people do want to go to. And the few tracks in markets with a big fan base, ticket prices are probitively high pricing out families and spurning new young fans from developing an interest in F1 and motor racing generally.

The demographics show F1 has an aging fan base - because not enough young people are becoming interested in it - having been priced out by CVCs 'investment' in F1.

No, CVC have provided ZERO value to F1 since they _acquired_ the rights to exploit it. What venture capitalists do is pump and dump. They're trying to do that with F1. There is no investment in the future here, just the rape of what is here and now.

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#260 Felix

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:22

Captain Tightpants: CVC provided Ecclesone with the money to acquire the rights to Formula One, and under him, the sport has expanded to nearly every continent and major car market at one point or another, and he's consistently branching out into new markets like India and South Korea to reach new markets and audiences.


Absolute crap: Ecclestone acquired (note) the rights in 1998 and by 2001 had still not paid for them in full - despite having at that stage sold a major portion to EMTV, who sold on to Kirch, to whom Ecclestone sold another 25%. When Kirch went tits up, the banks took over and CVC got involved in 2006. As for 'expanded to nearly every continent and major car market at one point or another, and he's consistently branching out into new markets like India and South Korea to reach new markets and audiences', before he acquitred the rights F1 was on 6 continents - Africa, Asia, Australia, Europe, N Americ and S America - today it is on 4. As for India and S Korea - they have yet to complete circuits let alone host races, but we have lost US, Canada, Argentina, South Africa, France and effectively GB.










#261 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 10:01

How do you mean "effectively" Great Britain? If Donington doesn't make it - and they seem deadly serious - Silverstone will likely get it.

#262 kar

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 10:21

How do you mean "effectively" Great Britain? If Donington doesn't make it - and they seem deadly serious - Silverstone will likely get it.


Now that there is an agreement in place with FOTA I dare say Bernie will have some amnesia about the liklihood of going back to Silverstone.

A bit like Imola a couple years back..

#263 HP

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 10:23

CVC provided Ecclesone with the money to acquire the rights to Formula One, and under him, the sport has expanded to nearly every continent and major car market at one point or another, and he's consistently branching out into new markets like India and South Korea to reach new markets and audiences.


I like the South Korea reference. How many seasons was the CART race in Korea being postponed, and in the end never happened? Let's wait and see. They started in April to construct it, but since then I haven't heard news about it.

Also whatever happened to the F1 race in Moscow? Why is there no race in Africa happening, but so many in Asia and Middle East? None in North-Ameriak.

It's after all a world championship. There is only one common pattern in all of this, and it's where is the money to be made? Not wrong in itself, but it seems to me that it's a good method to alienate the existing fan base even more, and living in Asian culture tells me one thing. If F1 is ever being accepted like it is in Europe (with the exception of Japan), it needs to be an Asian based series. If anyone doesn't understand why this is, then just ask why are there so many Europeans that don't give a dim about NASCAR.

Being exposed to F1 in one's own country simply doesn't mean people are going to embrace it easily. Besides, with the racing provided these last years, how can people fall in love with F1? If Berne, CVC wants to do something for the sport, they reinvest a moderate amount of the money they got out ouf the sport into it. And being an exclusive series alone won't do it.

#264 Felix

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 10:27

How do you mean "effectively" Great Britain? If Donington doesn't make it - and they seem deadly serious - Silverstone will likely get it.


Thanks for tacitly agreeing with all the other points...

Refer Kar's reply to the Silverstone issue

#265 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 11:26

Thanks for tacitly agreeing with all the other points...

Look, I don't have a problem with being wrong. Not when there's reason and an intelligent argument behind it all. I have a problem when people instantly dismiss my arguments simply because I make an argument that implies Mosley/Ecclestone/CVC/whoever are even slightly less than pure evil.

#266 JPW

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 11:32

I have a problem when people instantly dismiss my arguments simply because I make an argument that implies Mosley/Ecclestone/CVC/whoever are even slightly less than pure evil.

Some here think it's against the House Rules to say anything positive on Bernie/Max/CVC  ;)

#267 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:05

Some here think it's against the House Rules to say anything positive on Bernie/Max/CVC ;)

Ugh, don't I know it.

#268 Slowinfastout

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:13

There's a difference between saying something positive and continually defending the undefendable.. (often based on a flawed understanding of things) :rolleyes:

Edited by Slowinfastout, 25 June 2009 - 12:13.


#269 Orin

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:23

Look, I don't have a problem with being wrong. Not when there's reason and an intelligent argument behind it all. I have a problem when people instantly dismiss my arguments simply because I make an argument that implies Mosley/Ecclestone/CVC/whoever are even slightly less than pure evil.


Hello? You called someone a misanthrope for refusing to believe that CVC acted in anything other than self-interest.

#270 Dragonfly

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:56

There's a difference between saying something positive and continually defending the undefendable.. (often based on a flawed understanding of things) :rolleyes:

Seconded.

#271 Madras

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 19:20

Actually, invest in Formula One is exactly what CVC did. They're venture capitalists; it's what they do. They provide the money up-front for ventures that are considered to have high potential, but often come with some risk, moreso than the usual enterprise.



Eh, the money went into Bernie's pocket. They didnt invest in formula one, they bought Formula One from bernie. If they had invested money in F1 they would be putting money into the sport. they didnt do that.

#272 peroa

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 19:35

Eh, the money went into Bernie's pocket. They didnt invest in formula one, they bought Formula One from bernie. If they had invested money in F1 they would be putting money into the sport. they didnt do that.


They actually bought it from the banks that got it but didn`t want it after Leo went bust.
Now they are just harvesting it season after season.
Taking out +500 mio every year just like that and nothing comes back to make the experience better.

How awesome is that?

Edited by peroa, 25 June 2009 - 19:37.


#273 midgrid

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 15:11

Joe Saward mentions rumours of Ecclestone moving the ownership of the Formula One Group from CVC to Abu Dhabi:

[...]

The Government of Abu Dhabi is not in any trouble. According to The Economist the sovereign wealth fund ADIA is currently estimated to have US$ 875 billion in terms of total asset value. And the economy has not been much affected by the global financial crisis. Oil keeps coming out of the ground and there is no reason to suggest that is going to stop. Mubadala still has over $20 billion in assets under management. This move is interesting in the light of rumours that Bernie Ecclestone is working on a deal to have Abu Dhabi take over the Formula One group from CVC Capital Partners…

http://joesaward.wor...hours/#comments





#274 highdownforce

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 15:47

Hell, Abu Dhabi GP forever!!!

#275 Fastcake

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 18:21

Not too surprising, CVC were always going to sell it on once the time is right, it's what these people waste the worlds oxygen on.


Given the amount of money the Arabs already have in the sport, Abu Dhabi, being the more financially stable state, getting the rights is not unexpected.

#276 Donka

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 19:22

That's one way to guarantee yourself the closing race of the year.