50 replies to this topic

[cdrewett]

I was wondering what was the most expensive opportunity our dads missed.
In Motor Sport for July 1952 Vintage Autos offered the ex-Sultan of Johore's Mercedes Benz 540K in "100percent perfect condition with 39000 rcorded miles" for £1650.
In the same issue Connaught Engineering offer the ex King Carol Bugatti Royale and Rodney Clarke's Bugatti Type 59 but no price is listed so sadly they don't count.
Any other takers?
Chris

[Leigh Trevail]

£1650 would have purchaced three terraced houses back then, so if your old man did not have that sort of money spare it was not really a missed opportunity! But as the Mercedes would now be worth more than the three houses combined it would have been a good investment, and more fun!!

[D-Type]

Af far as I can work out from the Retail Price Index £1650 in 1952 is about £36,000 in 2009 so it was a bargain

[Garagiste]

http://www.measuring...h.com/ukcompare Gives this:

Current data is only available till 2007. In 2007, £1650 0s 0d from 1952 was worth:

£34,192.53 using the retail price index
£35,546.93 using the GDP deflator
£101,720.81 using the average earnings
£119,628.55 using the per capita GDP
£144,582.86 using the share of GDP


As ever, only a bargain if you can afford it! Still, wish I'd kept my old FS1E.

[Odseybod]

Not exactly our father's missed opportunities but ...

As a mid-1960s schoolboy, I had a strange, unnatural yearning for a 300SL Gullwing or a Ferrari 250 SWB, examples of both of which regularly appeared in the classified ads in each week's "Motor" for around £2,500. Just tired and tatty old cars back then, of course.

Judgiong from that interestig Measuring Worth website, either would have reprsented quite a good investment .... assuming I diddn't actually get my sticky hands on them and put them into a ditch.

[lil'chris]

http://www.measuring...h.com/ukcompare

As ever, only a bargain if you can afford it! Still, wish I'd kept my old FS1E.

Me too. However on reflection & given the times I fell off it, there's a fairly good chance neither it nor I would be here now if I had kept it .

[kayemod]

This is my all-time favourite, an Autosport classified ad from September 1964.

"D-Type, dry sump, 358 wide angle head, short nose Jaguar. Generally good condition, clutch and bodywork needing slight attention, lightweight wheels, three sets of tyres and a few spares, £650ono. Trailer available, £25 extra."

Beat that.

[bill p]

Two big misses were:-
Jaguar D-Type "TKF 9" at £900 in the late 60s
Ferrari 275GTB at £1650 in the early 70s

One catch:-
F2 Lotus 69 (ex-Ikuzawa) for £2300 in mid 80s

[fines]

Admittedly, more like grandpa's missed opportunity...

Edited by fines, 26 June 2009 - 16:29.

[Cirrus]

Still, wish I'd kept my old FS1E

Popsicle Purple, perchance?

[ray b]

a few that did not get away
my dad bought a 1958 facel vega HK 500 with the 392 hemi for a $1000 in about 64
the car was in excelent shape he drove it for 3 years with out major repair
and traded it and 3 grand more for a 62 facel II

before that he had a 356 4 cam carrera I think he got that for 2500 but quickly sold it for 4500
as it as a very high maintenance nitemare way tooo race tuned for a driver

[TooTall]

I recall a story related by Roger Barlow in, I believe, Autoweek. In 1942 he was offered a Bugatti Royale by a garage owner in New York City for the back storage fees of $150. He turned it down because he had just entered the Army and figured his future was somewhat uncertain.

Cheers,
Kurt O.

[ZOOOM]

I have had two chances over the years...
Boyhood pal whose father was the chief financial officer for Mars Candy Co. bought a Ferrari 250 California back in about 1960/61. I think he paid $8000.00 for it. He didn't have a clue. Took him six weeks to ruin the clutch. Offered it to me for $3000.00. Sold recently for about 7 MILLION...

My wife and I were comming back from a Can Am race at Road America back in about '68. We had stopped for gas at a Shell station off the interstate in Racine. It was pouring....
We heard the car downshift several times as the driver ducked under the overpass to get to the same station. In drove two drowned rats. The guys were about twenty or so. They were driving a Shelby Cobra and with no top, were sopping wet. The driver looked longingly at my wifes Rambler where she was comfy and dry. He offered to swap me cars for $3000 on the spot....
I had about eleven dollars to my name...

Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes you can't even afford the bear ****...

ZOOOM

[Giraffe]

One that fell into my mate's dad's lap, and a repeat of a thread I started some time ago with no response..........

Over dinner last night with renowned golf journalist and owner/operator of Golf International Magazine, Robert Green, I reminded him of the times I used to ride shotgun to him as we buzzed the locals in his dad's Aston Martin DB4GT, reg: 230 AYE when he was 17, and myself 16!
Robert told me that it had infact been the spare works car at Le Mans, and had been owned by Hamish Longden, who had painted it midnight blue from metallic red. He further informed me that Hamish and Robert's father, Peter Green had been close friends at University, and had both been instrumental in the construction and technology of Jodrell Bank radio telescope. Amazingly, when Hamish upgraded to a DB5 (Volante IIRC) in the late 1960's he actually GAVE the car to Peter!!! Considering it's potential worth of probably well over a million pounds today, that was quite some gift!!!
Peter's widow, Robert's mother has apparently been approached by someone researching the car recently, but she and Robert have no idea where it is these days, although there was a suspicion it is somewhere in the West Country. Can anyone on the forum she anymore light on the car's history, and any current updates?

[lil'chris]

Popsicle Purple, perchance?

with scratches.

[Lee Nicolle]

Realitically we have all had the opportunity. Collector cars today are yesterdays junk!!
In Oz old Monaros, Falcon GTs, Chargers,Toranas and the like a few years ago were worth little, but now have gone crazy. A mate bought an old Monaro GTS for $1500 with vague intentions of building a Gp Nc car 5 years ago, he just sold it for $16500 which I thought was cheap!
In the early 80s old GpC Tourers were worth little but hoo boy are making big bucks now.And the same for a lot of old racecars.
If you wish to make an earn buy a decent 20y/o old popular sporty type car, maintain it, use it sparingly as a weekend cruiser and in 5-10 years it should at least double in value. Ofcourse you have to buy the rightcar, have decent storage facilities and be able to do at least your own basic maintenance.
Even 70s US musle is still undervalued, and they are fun too drive and simple to maintain.
25 years ago I would loved to have had the capital to buy and store a lot of this stuff, I couls see this coming. Far better than property, though if you bought the right property to store them you would have done ok too!

[tom58long]

ray b - wasn´t aware that deadheads could be also racers. always thought that this belongs to chris rea and pink floyd. but maybe racing is like hell in a bucket.

[Terry Walker]

The nearest I got was in about 1961 or 1962 when I was a uni undergraduate and every day to and from Uni I passed Performance Cars in Mounts Bay Road, where I spotted an ancient Rolls-Royce, a bit out of place among the sporties. I stopped to admire it a few times, it was pre-first war Silver Ghost, with the driver's position in the open air, and a luxurious cabin the size of a small church hall for the lord and lady to travel in. Excellent original condition and all there. It was 450 pounds Australian. I didn't have anything like that - I might have mustered a hundred but that would have been a stretch. To give it some perspective, a new Holden cost about 1,200 pounds.

One day it was gone, and a month or so later I saw it parked in a front yard in South Perth, the cabin stripped and filled with plumbers tools and gear, now a work vehicle. Never saw it again.

Hard to tell, the market is small, but original pre-first-war Ghosts go for hundreds of thousands of Aussie dollars now. And new Holdens cost around 35-40,000 Aussie dollars.

[fuzzi]

When I was a lad in short trousers - about 1956, my father was in the later stages of convalescence after a serious motorcycle accident for which he received a large cheque in compensation. We went out, he and I, in the pre-war Riley, which was his first cash purchase after receiving the money to 'look at a car'. We drove into Nottingham and ended up in a cobbled street just behind Huntingdon Street bus station - not the smartest area in the town. A large roll-up door with a judas-door in the side led into a big space and in the middle was a Bugatti.

It was in the process of being rebuilt and I can still remember the chassis sitting on trestles with the engine, gearbox and axles attached - the outside levers made a big impression. My father was very taken with this and I can recall him looking carefully at the other parts including body panels around the workshop.

My parents separated when I was 11 and I didn't see him again for years. When we got back in touch we found that we got on very well and I asked him what happened about the Bugatti?

"Oh I bought it" he replied "Paid cash for it there and then."

"So what happened next?"

"Oh I never went back to pick it up. We were moving house at the time and I had nowhere to keep it."

My son sagely pointed out that if I'd inherited it I wouldn't have been able to afford to keep it. But I still wonder.
(Yes I have been back to the site and the building was pulled down years ago.)

[B Squared]

Admittedly, more like grandpa's missed opportunity...

Out of curiosity, I know you didn't create the ad, but wasn't the 1927 Indianapolis International Sweepstakes winner the Bill White owned Duesenberg driven by George Souders? A fairly large misrepresentation of the facts by this finance company, unless I'm missing something per usual. I understand it says Just Rebuilt, but that is clearly an altogether different chassis (Miller vs Duesenberg) to my untrained eye. Thanks for any clarification that you may be able to provide on this discrepancy.

Brian

[David M. Woodhouse]

Out of curiosity, I know you didn't create the ad, but wasn't the 1927 Indianapolis International Sweepstakes winner the Bill White owned Duesenberg driven by George Souders? A fairly large misrepresentation of the facts by this finance company, unless I'm missing something per usual. I understand it says Just Rebuilt, but that is clearly an altogether different chassis (Miller vs Duesenberg) to my untrained eye. Thanks for any clarification that you may be able to provide on this discrepancy.

Brian

It could be the same car. According to Mark Dees' definitive history of Miller, Bill White did own the 1925-27 winning Duesenberg which was involved in a fire while displayed in an Inglewood, CA department store. Myron Stevens rebuilt the car with a Miller 91 engine. The car was then named the Spindler-Miller, entered by Bill White, and carried #32 in the 1929 500 driven by Babe Stapp (qualified 4th, finished 28th). The Spindler-Miller is shown as having a Duesenberg chassis. Note that the advertisement says "Miller motored racing car", and gives no other mechanical details. The 1927 Indianapolis winner also carried the #32, so the reader is steered toward believing that the car as shown is a 500 winner.

Woody

[antonvrs]

In around 1965-66 Bev Spencer Buick in Santa Barbara, CA offered a 3 year old Ferrari GTO for $9500 including some spares. Worth somewhere near $20,000,000 today.
That's the one that gets me.
Anton

[RCH]

Back in about 1969 when I was at university a friend asked to borrow £25. He explained that every day he passed a sports car under a sheet in a front garden. That morning the sheet was off and the car was a Frazer Nash in fairly poor condition. He stopped to look and the owner came out and said he had to get rid of it so he was going to give it to a boys club.

My friend offered him £25 for it which was accepted and arranged to pay that evening. He got hold of the money and returned to find it gone. The owner came out and apologised saying that somebody else had come past and paid him £250 and taken it away.

Don't know what type of Nash it was but a Frazer Nash for 25 quid? Wow.

[Lotus23]

289 Shelby Cobra (CSX 2331) for $3995 in Oct 68 in New York state.

I'd saved a few quid during 67-68 in Vietnam: no place to spend it there. My bride of 1 year had no objections, so we bought the car. Got our money's worth of fun out of it in the first month or two. After 10 years of trouble-free service, I sold it (for considerably more than I'd paid) with no regrets: by then we had two children and I needed the money to go back to school.

P.S.: I can relate to the story about getting soaked in the rain. Even with considerable practice, it took 10-15 minutes to assemble the mickeymouse folding top. We had a lot of fun doing so in the midst of sudden downpours. (And she's still my bride all these years later!)

[fbarrett]

Friends:

In 1973 I was a poor engineer in Denver, enjoying my $4,000 Porsche 912 and editing the local Porsche club newsletter. One day a classified ad came in from a guy in deepest Wyoming: "RS60, ex-Richie Ginther, fresh engine, with trailer, $3,500." I knew it was a steal, but I coudn't afford even $350, and a local Porsche "expert" advised, "Too much." So I passed. A guy in Scottsbluff, Nebraska, bought the car and sold it a few years later for $9K, thinking he'd made a killing. The new owner, in Shreveport, Louisiana, did a restoration and advertised it later for $350,000. Today, it would be what, $500,000-plus?

In the mid-1960s I also passed on three ordinary Porsche Speedsters, just drivers, each in the $1,200 range. Then in 1968 there was the pair of BMW 327/328s that needed restoration, $1,800 total.

Remembering all this last week, when a friend offered me a very nice 12,000-mile Maxton for $7,000, I didn't hesitate! (Google it: 200-hp Wankel, 1,700 lb, 50 made.)



Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 28 June 2009 - 00:22.

[David Birchall]

[quote name='cdrewett' date='Jun 26 2009, 05:03' post='3719509']
I was wondering what was the most expensive opportunity our dads missed.
In Motor Sport for July 1952 Vintage Autos offered the ex-Sultan of Johore's Mercedes Benz 540K in "100percent perfect condition with 39000 rcorded miles" for £1650.
Any other takers?
Chris

Apparently the rear axle was weak in these cars which is why Hitler was always seen standing up in them....


VSCC etc....

Edited by David Birchall, 28 June 2009 - 02:29.

[ray b]

ray b - wasn´t aware that deadheads could be also racers. always thought that this belongs to chris rea and pink floyd. but maybe racing is like hell in a bucket.

I was born in mo-town, zora lived in our duplex for a while when he first worked for chevy on the vetts
my brother raced bikes and porsches in the 50's so I was a gear head long before I became a deadhead

[fines]

Out of curiosity, I know you didn't create the ad, but wasn't the 1927 Indianapolis International Sweepstakes winner the Bill White owned Duesenberg driven by George Souders? A fairly large misrepresentation of the facts by this finance company, unless I'm missing something per usual. I understand it says Just Rebuilt, but that is clearly an altogether different chassis (Miller vs Duesenberg) to my untrained eye. Thanks for any clarification that you may be able to provide on this discrepancy.

Brian

It could be the same car. According to Mark Dees' definitive history of Miller, Bill White did own the 1925-27 winning Duesenberg which was involved in a fire while displayed in an Inglewood, CA department store. Myron Stevens rebuilt the car with a Miller 91 engine. The car was then named the Spindler-Miller, entered by Bill White, and carried #32 in the 1929 500 driven by Babe Stapp (qualified 4th, finished 28th). The Spindler-Miller is shown as having a Duesenberg chassis. Note that the advertisement says "Miller motored racing car", and gives no other mechanical details. The 1927 Indianapolis winner also carried the #32, so the reader is steered toward believing that the car as shown is a 500 winner.

Woody

Brian, David is right: it is a Duesey! Look at the arcs (or kick-ups) of the frame over the axles, and also the streamlined shackle for the rear spring, very typical Duesenberg features. It looks as though the car is pictured in its 1929 trim, although the ad is from early '31. In the meantime, White had campaigned the car (unsuccessfully) with a 4-cylinder Miller Marine engine, but it's interesting he put the 91 engine back in for sale - by 1931, it was pretty much worthless! Btw, notice the ad only mentions the 1927 Indy win, yet more fuel to the doubt that the '25 winner was not the same car!

[B Squared]

David and Michael - Thanks to you both for your information to help sort me out.

Interesting find regarding the ad. Where did that come from Michael?

Brian

[fines]

An old Ascot programme.

[Alan Cox]

Can't remember the exact date, but it was an early'sixties Autosport ad, from the time of the Griffiths Formula. What price the Le Mans-winner today?

[kayemod]

Can't remember the exact date, but it was an early'sixties Autosport ad, from the time of the Griffiths Formula. What price the Le Mans-winner today?

Very nice, very nice indeed, but what about the missing bit from the next ad?

How much was Ronnie Hoare asking for that DB6?

[David McKinney]

If there was a price in the ad it would usually appear before the address...

[Roger Clark]

Can't remember the exact date, but it was an early'sixties Autosport ad, from the time of the Griffiths Formula. What price the Le Mans-winner today?

July 15 1966. Can anybody tell me anything about the races it won "in the past season"?

The one month old DB6 had been advertised as such for three months. David is right, there was no price.

[john winfield]

When I was a lad in short trousers - about 1956, my father was in the later stages of convalescence after a serious motorcycle accident for which he received a large cheque in compensation. We went out, he and I, in the pre-war Riley, which was his first cash purchase after receiving the money to 'look at a car'. We drove into Nottingham and ended up in a cobbled street just behind Huntingdon Street bus station - not the smartest area in the town. A large roll-up door with a judas-door in the side led into a big space and in the middle was a Bugatti.

It was in the process of being rebuilt and I can still remember the chassis sitting on trestles with the engine, gearbox and axles attached - the outside levers made a big impression. My father was very taken with this and I can recall him looking carefully at the other parts including body panels around the workshop.

My parents separated when I was 11 and I didn't see him again for years. When we got back in touch we found that we got on very well and I asked him what happened about the Bugatti?

"Oh I bought it" he replied "Paid cash for it there and then."

"So what happened next?"

"Oh I never went back to pick it up. We were moving house at the time and I had nowhere to keep it."

My son sagely pointed out that if I'd inherited it I wouldn't have been able to afford to keep it. But I still wonder.
(Yes I have been back to the site and the building was pulled down years ago.)

Back of Huntingdon Street, Nottingham? I reckon that's where Frank Sytner had one of his first garages - he'll know where the Bugatti is!

[RogerFrench]

In the mid 1960s there was an Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 on the Wirral, in a back yard under a tarp. The body was missing because a streamlined fibreglass (Falcon?) shell was going to be fitted. The owner had lost interest, and I could have bought it for a song, but really had nowhere to work on it. I don't know what happened to it.
There was at the same time in Ellesmere Port, an Austin Nippy, complete and in very nice shape, but without an engine, that I could have bought for 35 quid, but didn't.
Oh, well.

[Giraffe]

By giraffe138

A full race GT40 in perfect condition, £4250 ono? Well if I can negotiate the price down to £4 Grand, & with £2000 from the scrappage scheme for my old banger, I'll put the rest on my credit card. Only one problem, it's May 30th, 1969..........

[kayemod]

Even better, another Autosport classified from a couple of years earlier, July 1967.

"Ferrari GTO, reg 1964. Ex-team car, third at LeMans 1962. Duty paid, log book, full history This car must appreciate (!!!!), being the last of the road racing Ferraris. £2800 ono."

To put this into some kind of perspective, that amount would have bought a quite decent house in 67, but how many millions is that car worth today? This would be the Elde/Beurlys car, 3757GT, not sure who owns it today, but somebody here will know.

Edit. Silly me, got the ad date wrong and had to correct it.

Edited by kayemod, 29 June 2009 - 17:56.

[taylov]

If only Dad had a spare £100 in 1949

"Brescia" Bugatti 2-seater. good order,new battery, tyres, insured...Best offer over £100

or for £50 more - 1931 Delage S8 4-door sports saloon, in honestly fine condition throughout...laid up for last 10 years...genuine 20mpg...nearest offer to £150, must sell to cover garage bill.

both from Motor Sport July 1949.

Tony

[kayemod]

If only Dad had a spare £100 in 1949

I'm really surprised that no-one has come out with the "...and still 'ave change!" line in this thread.

[bannishg]

In the same issue Connaught Engineering offer the ex King Carol Bugatti Royale and Rodney Clarke's Bugatti Type 59 but no price is listed so sadly they don't count.
Any other takers?
Chris

Hello! I guess I should mention first-off that I'm new here. I am quite intrigued by buying & selling prices of the exhalted classics, especially prices from the 40s & 50s.

I decided to resurrect this thread after nearly 2 years of inactivity because I have some information that I believe to be accurate regarding the King Carol Royale.
Though the ad does not list an asking price, I have read from numerous sources that the car was purchased by Chicago collector/dealer Leo Gephart in the fall of 1952. He paid $3000 US for the car, which was in pristine condition. 7 years prior to that, another Royale was purchased in very rough condition for $400 US.

Greg B

P.S. : I'll start a new thread later today where I'll post some scans of advertisements that really capture the low market prices of the era(s).

Edited by bannishg, 14 March 2011 - 16:03.

[Bloggsworth]

When I left school in '63 I was offered a Straight 8 Railton for £10

When I got home to Stanstead there were 3 Ex Swiss Air Force Spitfires for sale at £1500 each...

[tlc356]

Well It wasn't Dad's opportunity but it would have been his money. It was 1960 and we had moved to Florida , he with prostate to retire early and I was in college. There was a rich heir from Philadelphia who ran a small sports car race shop in Ft. Lauderdale. He had a slightly used race car that had been repaired after kissing the wall at Daytona that he was very interested in selling. It was only a few years old and ran well but was no longer competitive at the levels it had raced in.

It could have been mine for only three thousand dollars, but in those days that amount was as far out of reach as the $3 million plus that the pontoon fender Testa Rossa commands now. I still can't afford it and I still love it's looks but I don't think the top kept out much if any rain. Luckily almost twenty years later I finally had $3000 and drove home a 356 Cabriolet. I still love it's looks, it drives great and the top keeps out the rain (if I'm ever unlucky enough to have it rain when I'm out driving). KTF

[fbarrett]

Friends:

Apart from my earlier refusal of a $3,500 Porsche RS60, my wife and I were offered a Porsche 904 for $25,000 in the summer of 1976. The car was shown at the 1976 Porsche Parade in Brainerd, Minnesota by our friends and restorers Harvey and Linda Smith. It was in basically unrestored (i.e., slightly lumpy but very original) condition and ran extremely well. We were then eating beans to pay off our first house for the then-amazing sum of $49,000, so we had to pass on the car. Stupid! A similar 904, once owned by another nearby friend, was recently sold at auction for $1 million.

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 23 March 2011 - 02:52.

[W154]

When I left school in '63 I was offered a Straight 8 Railton for £10

When I got home to Stanstead there were 3 Ex Swiss Air Force Spitfires for sale at £1500 each...

To hell with the Australian G P this weekend......I'm going to spend all available hours working on perfecting my time machine.

[fbarrett]

All who enjoy this thread should read Memoirs of a Bugatti Hunter by Antoine Rafaelli. He, too, bought Bugattis that he never bothered to pick up.

[LotusElise]

Dad nearly bought a Wolseley Hornet racing special a few years back. A 1930s, Brooklands-spec one, not a '60s one. I think someone wanted about £10k for it.

I never heard the end of the story, but offers that sound too good to be true, normally are.

 

See also: the time I nearly bought a Gordini-engined Renault Dauphine for £450.

[GMACKIE]

 

See also: the time I nearly bought a Gordini-engined Renault Dauphine for £450.

 

 

Wow.....that was a lucky escape.

[stuartbrs]

Pretty much any SWB Porsche 911 pre-2013.....

 

Luckily I got mine late 2012. But for a while there the SWB cars were cheap as chips, now they are going full nuclear!

[seldo]

Wow.....that was a lucky escape.

So true!

Edited by seldo, 03 April 2014 - 22:11.