47 replies to this topic

[Nanni Dietrich]

According to contemporary press (La Vanguardia, Journal de Genève and others), several eyewitnesses reported that one lap before his fatal crash during the 45th lap of the Italian Grand Prix at Monza, on 19 October 1924, Count Louis Zborowski passed in front of the stands smoking a cigarette. Possibly was his accident caused by this detail?
I've never heard it before.

Smoking while racing, was it usual?

Edited by Nanni Dietrich, 26 June 2009 - 14:32.

[philippe charuest]

According to contemporary press (La Vanguardia, Journal de Genève and others), several eyewitnesses reported that one lap before his fatal crash during the 45th lap of the Italian Grand Prix at Monza, on 19 October 1924, Count Louis Zborowski passed in front of the stands smoking a cigarette. Possibly was his accident caused by this detail?
I've never heard it before.

Smoking while racing, was it usual?

no and near impossible on a open car at speed , but what was usual is creative journalism usually the cause of accident is children crossing the track it couldnt possibly be just a mistake of the driver

[flat-16]

I could swear I've seen B+W film of drivers clasping cigarettes whilst racing. Did I imagine this? On the Mille Miglia perhaps?


Justin

[brabhamBT19]

Dick Trickle used to smoke during yellow flags, he even got permition from nascar to do it. Apparently he also had a hole drilled in his helmet for cigarette.

[Hieronymus]

Pretty much %$# his lungs and contributed to Global Warming, but I know of drivers that were boozing while driving. That I regard as a serious offence...!

[DOHC]

I'm sure there's a B/W pic of a driver (Eugenio Castellotti?) smoking his pipe while driving his racing car, IIRC at the carousel oc the Nürburgring. Trying to find it...

[Gabrci]

I'm sure there's a B/W pic of a driver (Eugenio Castellotti?) smoking his pipe while driving his racing car, IIRC at the carousel oc the Nürburgring. Trying to find it...

I believe it was Felice Bonetto wasn't it?

Edit: and here is the photo

Edited by Gabrci, 26 June 2009 - 19:28.

[Bob Riebe]

Pretty much %$# his lungs and contributed to Global Warming, but I know of drivers that were boozing while driving. That I regard as a serious offence...!

Ah if we go only go back to a society where men were men and women loved it!

[Derek Pitt]

Ah if we go only go back to a society where men were men and women loved it!

and a lot of men loved it too.......

[kayemod]

and a lot of men loved it too.......

Maybe, but it wasn't discussed very much.

[Roger Clark]

I believe it was Felice Bonetto wasn't it?

Edit: and here is the photo

That race is the 1952 German Grand Prix. In it, Bonetto spun on the first lap and was disqualified for receiving outside assistance. Is it possible that he is cruising back to the pits after the incident?

Edited by Roger Clark, 27 June 2009 - 09:14.

[isynge]

Appreciate that these are closed car tales but I distinctly remember a piece in MotorSport a couple of years ago talking about a driver of an MG (I think) at Le Mans having time to smoke a cigarette on the Mulsanne straight - another thing the chicanes have probably done for...

Gordon Spice, in his really rather entertaining "Life of Spice" also recounts how he always kept a packet of cigarettes in his Ford Capri touring car - in case he got stuck on the circuit or wanted one when behind the pace car. Indeed, during the 1979 Spa 24 Hours he had to get an additional packet thrown in through the window as he passed the pits (all on p.119 for those excited by footnotes).

Indeed, a different era.

Edited by isynge, 27 June 2009 - 09:33.

[Marc Ceulemans]

Did Gordon Spice receive the cigarettes from the main sponsor of the team ?

[RCH]

You probably all knew this anyway but Bracco was supposed to have chain smoked his way to a win in the 1952 Mille Miglia. Lighted cigarettes were handed to him by co-driver Umberto Maglioli. He took swigs from a flask of brandy along the way as well!

[Doug Nye]

I've told the story here before but when my pal Vestey retired his GTB/C at Mugello he strolled round the corner to find David Piper sitting on a rock there, having retired his car as well. They were sitting in the shade watching the race continue when Pipes produced his pipe and baccy pouch, and loaded it up. He then patted his pockets, looked disappointed, and then asked PV if he had a light? Paul did not, but he took Pipes back round the corner to his abandoned car which - like any gentleman's Gran Turismo should - had a cigar lighter.

It was a happy Pipes who puffed away contentedly for the rest of the afternoon...

DCN

[Nanni Dietrich]

You probably all knew this anyway but Bracco was supposed to have chain smoked his way to a win in the 1952 Mille Miglia. Lighted cigarettes were handed to him by co-driver Umberto Maglioli. He took swigs from a flask of brandy along the way as well!

Not a flask of brandy. The legend states he had a flask of Chianti red wine on board (Enzo gave him?) at the start of the Florence-Bologna mountain stage with the famous tough Futa Pass. He started from Florence with several seconds (at least 40 or 45 if I remember well) behind Karl Kling's Mercedes and at Bologna he had finished his Chianti but... was leading the Mille Miglia!

[OfficeLinebacker]

Re: sponsors' cigarettes. Back in "the day" when the top level of NASCAR was called "Winston Cup" there were more cigarettes available to drivers, crew, press, etc (even fans) than they knew what to do with.

Chad Knaus is like the President Obama of today, he's a high profile guy who hides his guilty pleasure well.

[DOHC]

I believe it was Felice Bonetto wasn't it?

Edit: and here is the photo

Ah, yes of course, stupid of me to mix him up with Castellotti, and no wonder I couldn't find that picture. Thanks! That's the one I was thinking of!

Edited by DOHC, 27 June 2009 - 19:25.

[RStock]

Not a flask of brandy. The legend states he had a flask of Chianti red wine on board (Enzo gave him?) at the start of the Florence-Bologna mountain stage with the famous tough Futa Pass. He started from Florence with several seconds (at least 40 or 45 if I remember well) behind Karl Kling's Mercedes and at Bologna he had finished his Chianti but... was leading the Mille Miglia!

A couple of photo's of Tazio (1948 MM ?) . You can see the flask of Chianti hanging 'bout his neck .


This one is perhaps my favorite photo of all time .






I found these posted at a Spanish site with no copyright notification . Pardons to anyone who may have copyright . Let me know and I'll either remove them or give credit .

Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 27 June 2009 - 19:24.

[DOHC]

That race is the 1952 German Grand Prix. In it, Bonetto spun on the first lap and was disqualified for receiving outside assistance. Is it possible that he is cruising back to the pits after the incident?

Maybe the "outside assistance" was someone handing him his favorite pipe and tobacco?

[RStock]

Dick Trickle used to smoke during yellow flags, he even got permition from nascar to do it. Apparently he also had a hole drilled in his helmet for cigarette.

I can't remember which driver , but I want to say it was Ned Jarret , who had the crew leave the OE cigarette lighter in the car so he could light up on track .

[OfficeLinebacker]

A couple of photo's of Tazio (1948 MM ?) . You can see the flask of Chianti hanging 'bout his neck .

Where are the fava beans?

[Mansell Madgwick]

Didn't Bonetto clamp the pipe in his mouth to stop his false teeth falling out? Heard that somewhere but don't recall where! Perhaps we should start a thread on drivers with false teeth (or not!)

[drivers71]

Helmut Kelleners, father of Ralf, asked during the drivers briefing before a Tourist Trophy at Silverstone, upon being reminded that smoking was not permitted in the pits; "So I have to put my cigarette out before each pit stop?". C of C was not amused.

[lil'chris]

I think it was Alain Ferte who commented that he found the pre chicane Mulsanne / Hunaudieres straight at Le Mans so boring that he used to light up another Marlboro when he passed the restaurant. I presume he was joking

[Paul Parker]

To flat-16

I think you are referring to Achille Varzi driving a Bugatti in the Targa Florio circa 1930-32 as he sets off from a tyre stop with a fresh coffin nail between his lips.

[D-Type]

I reckon is that it is impossible to light a cigarette in a moving open car using matches or a cigarette lighter (based on trying to light a fag on the back of a Vespa when shielded by the rider). Having said that, the lighters which comprised a length of "gun cotton" and a flint wheel would work - they used to sell them in Spain and possibly still do. It might be possible with a Zippo if their advertising can be believed. A driver could, of course, collect a cigarette at a pit stop. Having managed to light the cigarette, it will blow out of your mouth unless you either keep it absolutely central or you hold it with one hand (again based on experience on a Vespa at its terminal velocity of 41.5 mph).

Did Zborowski have a riding mechanic? If so maybe it was possible for him to light up under the dash.

On balance I suspect this story is an example of journalistic licence, shall we call it - speculation becoming accepted as "fact".

Edited by D-Type, 17 October 2009 - 21:00.

[Nanni Dietrich]

...

On balance I suspect this story is an example of journalistic licence, shall we call it - speculation becoming accepted as "fact".

Duncan, considering the year (1924, when TV was not created), the journalist committed venial sin...
Now journalists (political journalist above all) commit more than venial sins.

[RStock]

Never underestimate the ability of a smoker to light up .

[D-Type]

Duncan, considering the year (1924, when TV was not created), the journalist committed venial sin...
Now journalists (political journalist above all) commit more than venial sins.

Learning from the politicians?
I agree with the 1924 thought - never let the truth get in the way of a good story

Never underestimate the ability of a smoker to light up .

Agreed

[fuzzi]

There's a story from the 1952 Mille Miglia when young Mr Moss put two wheels of the C-Type into a ditch at one point, but managed to pull then out and continue. Norman Dewis, who was riding with Moss, used up nearly a whole box of matches trying to light a cigarette to calm his nerves.

[HDonaldCapps]

I can't remember which driver , but I want to say it was Ned Jarret , who had the crew leave the OE cigarette lighter in the car so he could light up on track .

Joe Weatherly and David Pearson were just a few among the number who did so. I am not sure if Ned Jarrett was even smoker, to be honest. I cannot recall seeing him smoke in the many times I saw him, but that might also be fuzzy memory at work as well.

[Mansell Madgwick]

Wasn't Jan Magnussen fond of a ciggie too? I bet that endeared him to Sir Jackie during his time at Stewart GP!

[Arjan de Roos]

There are though quite some '50 pics of drivers who smoked while sitting in their car on the starting grid or during a pitsstop.

[Vitesse2]

Before we get too much duplication of effort, there's already a thread on Smoking Drivers.

Edited by Vitesse2, 02 July 2009 - 15:42.

[Jean L]

Not exactly a driver but Adolf Galland was the pilot who had a cigar lighter in his Messerschmidt 109.

[kayemod]

Not exactly a driver but Adolf Galland was the pilot who had a cigar lighter in his Messerschmidt 109.

From that Felice Bonetto pic, I think we were all surprised to learn that at least one Maserati A6GCM appears to have been fitted with an ashtray.

[Flat Black 84]

It's a well-worn story that Jules Goux won the 1913 Indy 500 while liberally imbibing champagne throughout the race. What was it with Euros and their wine?

[D-Type]

It's a well-worn story that Jules Goux won the 1913 Indy 500 while liberally imbibing champagne throughout the race. What was it with Euros and their wine?

Never drink the water in a foreign country

[kiwi a110]

Classic photo of Olivier Gendebien in a F1 Cooper Maserati on the Mont Ventoux "Karussel" with fag in mouth!

[Flat Black 84]

Never drink the water in a foreign country

I'll remember that next time I cross The Pond.

[David Paine]

According to contemporary press (La Vanguardia, Journal de Genève and others), several eyewitnesses reported that one lap before his fatal crash during the 45th lap of the Italian Grand Prix at Monza, on 19 October 1924, Count Louis Zborowski passed in front of the stands smoking a cigarette. Possibly was his accident caused by this detail?
I've never heard it before.

Smoking while racing, was it usual?

David Paine October 17th 2009
As author of "The Zborowski Inheritance" I have probably done more research on the Sabriskie/Zborowski family than anyone and met many people im the 1960s who knew him, drove with him and worked with him. Althoug Louis was a heavy smoker I don't think that he ever drove while smoking. When he crashed off the banking at Brooklands in Chitty Bang Bang the first thjing he did when he got out of the car was light a cigarette. There are several reports of his smoking while in the pits, even while working on a car. But not in the heat of competition.

[bradbury west]

I agree with the 1924 thought - never let the truth get in the way of a good story

IIRC that was also the policy of W F Bradley in those days

ISTR an interview with Rene Dreyfus who expressed dismay at being forbidden to drink eau de vie during long distance races.
Roger Lund

[Graham Clayton]

Here is a photo of a 1960 US short-track driver puffing on a cigar during a race:

http://www.thevintag...rt_stadium3.htm

[Hank the Deuce]

Back Down Under, didn't Des West being to lament in the late 60's, that the Series Production cars were getting too quick at Bathurst for him to be able to comfortably have a smoke on the way around?

[raceannouncer2003]

A couple of links to the late Lew Florence racing an Ermini at Bremerton, Washington in 1957. In the second link, you'll find the photos about half way down. Lew was a big Jimmy Bryan fan:

http://www.rspubs.com/ermini/

http://ferrariexperts.com/ermini.htm

Vince H.

[AleSi]

Looks like Felice Bonetto smoked during races quite often. Here is another picture, from historicracing.com

[Giraffe]

I've just copied this thread to Jorgen Zaborowski for info.