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#1 Postnoff

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Posted 20 October 2000 - 16:10

On what Grand Prix automobile equipped with a rare wing started first time?

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#2 EddieJF1

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Posted 20 October 2000 - 16:42

Isn't it Lotus/Ferrari in '68?

#3 rainern

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Posted 20 October 2000 - 17:40

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I believe it was at Spa-Francorchamps in 1968.
Ferrari 312.

#4 Flicker

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Posted 20 October 2000 - 18:38

Quite right, Rainer!
But you forget about another cars - another Ferrari not with Amon at the wheel (greeting to Amon thread :)) but with Ickx and BrabhamBT26-Repco (Jack Brabham & Jochen Rindt).
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Finished only Ickx on third place.
Three weeks before Spa Graham Hill scored his fourth victory at the streets of Monte Carlo with spoiler.
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A few words about history. Firs wings appeared on the R. von Opel record car. In 50s M.May experimented with a wing, but the real revolution came with Chapparal in 1967.
And ... in winter 1968 before one of Tasman races mechanics of Jim Clark put a strange wing made from helicopter's vane over Lotus's gearbox. Clark decided to take it off, but smb. (Ferrari guys, for example) decided to test this idea.

#5 Boniver

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Posted 20 October 2000 - 20:45


AILERON CARS

1968
Sp (Lotus wig)
Mon Lotus wig (1)
Bel Lotus wig Ferrari Brabham
Ned Lotus wig Ferrari Brabham
Fr Lotus Ferrari (2) Brabham Matra Matra Tyrrell
GB Lotus Ferrari Brabham Matra Matra Tyrrell Lotus Walker Honda

Dt Lotus Ferrari Brabham Matra $ Matra Tyrrell Lotus Walker Honda Cooper
It Lotus Ferrari $ Brabham $ Matra $ Matra Tyrrell Lotus Walker Honda Cooper $
Can Lotus Ferrari $ Brabham $ Matra Matra Tyrrell Lotus Walker Honda Cooper $
VS Lotus Ferrari $ Brabham $ Matra Matra Tyrrell Lotus Walker Honda Cooper $
Mex Lotus Ferrari Brabham Matra Matra Tyrrell Lotus Walker Honda Cooper $ McLaren BRM
------
1969
ZA (3) Lotus Ferrari Brabham McLaren Matra Tyrrell Lotus Walker McLaren BRM BRM Parnell Brabham Williams McLaren Lawson
Sp (4) Lotus Ferrari Brabham McLaren Matra Tyrrell Lotus Walker McLaren BRM BRM Parnell Brabham Williams
Mon after the first session : immediate ban on any wings that were not part of the bodywork
(1) first win of a Wig car
(2) first win of a ailes car
(3) all the cars (only Brabham De Klerk -
Brabham Tringle)
(4) all the 14 cars
$ adjustable



#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 October 2000 - 21:26

We had this a while back... maybe four months or more. The first aerodynamic aid in the rush to the wings of 68/69 was shaping of the rear bodywork of the Brabhams at the 1967 (that's right, 1967!) Belgian GP.

#7 oldF1fan

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Posted 21 October 2000 - 02:57

Jim Hall of Texas racing fame, was the first to use wings in sports car racing in the late 60's. His Chapparals used a high mounted wing which was rigged so it could be rotated to a vertical plane to act as an air brake! His cars were reportedly (but not admitedly) supported by Chevrolet and used a Chevy designed automatic tranny, which left the clutch foot free to use a pedal to operate the wing air brake. He won the United Stated Road Racing Championship (called the USRRC..predecessor to the CanAm) several times, I think.
When the CanAm came along Hall designed the first ground effects car. It used movable lexan side skirts and a rubber flap under the nose to seal the car to the road and used a snowmobile engine to power two large fans mounted in the tail to suck the car to the track like a vacuum cleaner! A hovercraft in reverse!
Couldn't be slipstreamed either! The car used a large Chevy for motivation (494, I seem to remember). Very fast, especially in the corners, but the snowmobile engine proved unreliable. It was usually beaten by the McLarens in CanAm, then was outlawed by declaring the fan blade "movable aerodynamic devices". Other drivers hated it, because of the fact that it vacuumed anything on the track up and blew it out the back, a very unpleasant car to follow closely!!

Lynn Flowers
McKinney, Texas USA

#8 Keir

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Posted 21 October 2000 - 03:32

Oh no, not AGAIN!!!!

If the term is "wing" then the answer is Spa '68 Ferrari.

If you are talking aerodynamic devices (including shaped bodywork), I can give you some examples from the early 1900's.

Generally, the term "wing" refers to the FIA description, hence, spoilers are not wings, fins are not wings and shaped bodywork was not considered to be winglike, because when wings were banned, the above items were allowed.

The answer most accepted using the criteria "wing" has and always will be: '68 Spa Ferrari as driven in both practice and the race by Chris Amon.

#9 Flicker

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Posted 21 October 2000 - 11:41

There is an article "ON A WING AND A PRAYER" http://www.retroraci...gandaprayer.htm
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Mmmm... according to it: "The first aerodynamic aids on Grand Prix cars appeared at the 1967 Belgian round of the World Championship, held on the ultra-fast Spa-Francorchamps road circuit."
So...seems that Ray was right... :)

#10 Keir

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Posted 21 October 2000 - 13:44

Aerodynamic aids are not always "wings" and the article has been proven to be incorrect in it's assumption. Mercedes Benz used fins, spoilers and the like 20 years earlier, but they didn't use what was to be better known as "Wings."