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Adrian Sutil - Unluckiest driver on the grid


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#1 Pato

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:12

I personally think that Adrian has to be the unluckiest man in F1 at the moment. Most people say it is webber but after his recent string of podiums and his win today I don't think anyone can say it is him now. Feel so sorry for him.

Monaco 2008 - In 4th place, hit by Kimi Raikkonen

China 2009 - In the points, aquaplaned off the track

Germany 2009 - In the points, running as high as 2nd, Hit by Kimi Raikkonen once again.

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#2 clipper

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:16

I personally think that Adrian has to be the unluckiest man in F1 at the moment. Most people say it is webber but after his recent string of podiums and his win today I don't think anyone can say it is him now. Feel so sorry for him.

Monaco 2008 - In 4th place, hit by Kimi Raikkonen

China 2009 - In the points, aquaplaned off the track

Germany 2009 - In the points, running as high as 2nd, Hit by Kimi Raikkonen once again.


Agreed, as webber takes the trophy on the top step of the podium, there might have been another ceremony in the force india garage giving sutil the garlic necklace.



#3 Paul Prost

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:17

Sutil is the new Mark webber.

#4 tarmac

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:18

Sorry, it was his own fault again.

#5 mursuka80

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:18

Did we see the same incident? Sutil ran to Kimi not the other way around.You can keep spinning this all you want.

#6 primer

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:19

Germany 2009 - In the points, running as high as 2nd, Hit by Kimi Raikkonen once again.


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#7 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:20

It was a racing incident (as Kimi said) Adrian understeered a lot into Kimi and kimi had some (not a lot) room to give Adrian a little more space.

#8 Hippo

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:23

Before Sutil stopped my brother asked me when he and Kimi are going to crash. I told him "right after Sutil leaves the pit". :eek:

Today it wasn't Kimi's fault though. Sutil should have taken it easy. Not really "unlucky". Just not clever enough.

#9 rookie

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:24

Today was unlucky for Sutil in the sense that he won't probably wont qualify in the top 10 again.

It was a racing incident though in my books.

Don't think you can count China 09 as unlucky, he binned it. whether it happens on lap 10 or 50, it's still a mistake.

#10 salamin

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:27

sutil wanted too much of the cake, like hamilton

#11 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:31

sutil wanted too much of the cake, like hamilton

er... what?

#12 ensign14

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:39

Looking at the incident again, Kimi gained an advantage by going off track (outside the white lines). On the precedent of Spa '08 should that not have been a penalty, even if it were inadvertent? Kimi didn't even give up his place twice like Hamilton did.

#13 GiancarloF1

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:40

It's so sad Fisichella did a pisspoor qualifying yesterday, I think he could have done the job better. On the other hand, Sutil's first stint was outstanding.

#14 Dolph

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:42

Looking at the incident again, Kimi gained an advantage by going off track (outside the white lines). On the precedent of Spa '08 should that not have been a penalty, even if it were inadvertent? Kimi didn't even give up his place twice like Hamilton did.



You certainly get the troll award. :up:

#15 mursuka80

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:43

Looking at the incident again, Kimi gained an advantage by going off track (outside the white lines). On the precedent of Spa '08 should that not have been a penalty, even if it were inadvertent? Kimi didn't even give up his place twice like Hamilton did.


Everyone were doing that in some point.

#16 ensign14

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:43

You certainly get the troll award. :up:

Read it again. It's an attack on the stewarding of F1. Making up the rules on the hoof to penalize those the FIA do not like.

#17 Monad

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:45

You guys are blind. Sutil did nothing more that what other drivers do, to try and defend his position and Raikonnen just tried from the outside with out really being his fault ether. It was just a racing incident. But if i was Sutil i would be really careful from now on whenever i see that Ferrari in my mirrors because there is some bad karma there.

#18 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:46

Everyone were doing that in some point.

I think the point was it was while passing someone rather than just in normal running.

#19 Spunout

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:50

It was a racing incident (as Kimi said) Adrian understeered a lot into Kimi and kimi had some (not a lot) room to give Adrian a little more space.


I have to point out there is no obligation to give "as much space as there is", though.

http://www.youtube.c...g...E43&index=1

Nice example from few years back; notice how much more space Montoya could have given, he barely left enough room for car width there. But it was enough - or would have been, without Schumi understeering. This one is pretty much on the limit of rules, but still fair enough. Even Schumi himself had no complaints (naturally he would have done the same thing!). Then again, Ensign14 seems to suggest Kimi was quite generous there, going off-track to give more space.

Right, Ensign14? ;)


Edited by Spunout, 12 July 2009 - 14:54.


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#20 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 14:53

I have to point out there is no obligation to give "as much space as there is", though.

I never said there was, just that there was possibly some room to avoid the incident. As I said racing incident.

#21 ensign14

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 15:03

Nice example from few years back; notice how much more space Montoya could have given, he barely left enough room for car width there. But it was enough - or would have been, without Schumi understeering. This one is pretty much on the limit of rules, but still fair enough. Even Schumi himself had no complaints (naturally he would have done the same thing!). Then again, Ensign14 seems to suggest Kimi was quite generous there, going off-track to give more space.

Right, Ensign14?;)

I was thinking about the example of Montoya being penalized for not going off track to give enough room a few years back...I guess Kimi learned from that, plus of course realizing that he was driving a red car and Max' mates were stewards this weekend. /innocent

#22 JdB

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 15:20

Before Sutil stopped my brother asked me when he and Kimi are going to crash. I told him "right after Sutil leaves the pit". :eek:

Today it wasn't Kimi's fault though. Sutil should have taken it easy. Not really "unlucky". Just not clever enough.


So it was your fault !! Shame on you !! :stoned:
Let's just hope they (Force India) end up in the points this season, because i think they deserve it. They've improved greatly the last 2 seasons, and even Fisichella is racing again.

gr.Jeroen

#23 giacomo

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 15:26

Germany 2009 - In the points, running as high as 2nd, Hit by Kimi Raikkonen once again.

That was Sutils own fault, and no one else's.

#24 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 15:36

Sutil tried to push Kimi wide and ruined his race. nuff said :drunk:

#25 z2z

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 15:42

Sutil tried to push Kimi wide and ruined his race. nuff said :drunk:

BS!

#26 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 15:46

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/76924

He saw Kimi comming and said he touched him... ._.

#27 mursuka80

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 15:49

I feared Sutil would be a whiny bitch about it,but i was proven wrong.Sutil :up:

#28 z2z

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 15:59

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/76924

He saw Kimi comming and said he touched him... ._.


When I went out of the pitlane I saw Kimi coming on the outside of the corner and I just tried to hold my line but he went to the outside and I touched him and lost part of my front wing.

That doesn't mean he crashed in Kimi or it was his fault ..you can say it was typical racing incident. Kimi fault 60% - Sutil fault 40% :lol:

Edited by z2z, 12 July 2009 - 17:43.


#29 Nasty McBastard

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 16:14

Im not assigning blame, seemed pretty much 50/50 to me. But I must admit that when the 'under investigation' thing popped up and brundle or DC said 'kimi might get a penalty' I was gobsmacked.

If anyone is unlucky there, it isnt Sutil.

#30 Mauseri

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 16:15

Sutil tried to push Kimi wide and ruined his race. nuff said :drunk:

In the place where they touched, the racing line goes strongly to the right where Kimi was heading to. Sutil was howering/understeering to the left. I think the contact happened because both drivers tought they would emerge in front.

If someone is responsible it's Sutil because he was coming out of pits. Bourdais was penalised last year for one such incident.

#31 ninadiana

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 16:44

http://www.fia.com/e...document_34.pdf

#32 primer

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 17:11


Is my campy imagination misleading me (again), or is that truly a naughty avatar? :cat:

#33 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 17:38

I personally think that Adrian has to be the unluckiest man in F1 at the moment. Most people say it is webber but after his recent string of podiums and his win today I don't think anyone can say it is him now. Feel so sorry for him.

Monaco 2008 - In 4th place, hit by Kimi Raikkonen - Bad luck

China 2009 - In the points, aquaplaned off the track - Sutil messed up

Germany 2009 - In the points, running as high as 2nd, Hit by Kimi Raikkonen once again. - Sutil messed up.


:cool:


#34 Dolph

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 17:48


I personally think that Adrian has to be the unluckiest man in F1 at the moment. Most people say it is webber but after his recent string of podiums and his win today I don't think anyone can say it is him now. Feel so sorry for him.

Monaco 2008 - In 4th place, hit by Kimi Raikkonen - Sutil messed up

China 2009 - In the points, aquaplaned off the track - Sutil messed up

Germany 2009 - In the points, running as high as 2nd, Hit by Kimi Raikkonen once again. - Sutil messed up.



:cool:


I fixed it for you. Don't be confused by the fact that Sutil was taken out of the race by Räikkönen. The stewards stated afterward that he would have received a penalty anyway for overtaking under yellow flags and he would have lost his points position.

Sutil has clearly thrown away three great race results. It's incompetence if you ask me, not being unlucky.

#35 Dolph

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 17:50

Read it again. It's an attack on the stewarding of F1. Making up the rules on the hoof to penalize those the FIA do not like.


I read it again. You haven't changed it. It's still a troll OT post where you try to push forward your own agenda in a totally unrelated thread.

#36 ensign14

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 18:02

I read it again. You haven't changed it. It's still a troll OT post where you try to push forward your own agenda in a totally unrelated thread.

Why should I change it? Disprove it.

#37 Yellowmc

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 18:04

Sutil came out ahead of Raikkonen and Raikkonen saw his chance, he gave him room on the inside and went out wide.

Sutil then understeered into him, that's racing and it's bad luck for both.

Sutil could have just let him go but just like Kimi, you always go for broke, nothing less, otherwise your name is Rubens.

#38 mursuka80

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 18:07

Sutil came out ahead of Raikkonen and Raikkonen saw his chance, he gave him room on the inside and went out wide.

Sutil then understeered into him, that's racing and it's bad luck for both.

Sutil could have just let him go but just like Kimi, you always go for broke, nothing less, otherwise your name is Rubens.


:rotfl: :rotfl:


#39 Clatter

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 18:19

Looking at the incident again, Kimi gained an advantage by going off track (outside the white lines). On the precedent of Spa '08 should that not have been a penalty, even if it were inadvertent? Kimi didn't even give up his place twice like Hamilton did.


What precedent is there for awarding a penalty when someone goes off track on the outside of a corner?

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#40 wrighty

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 18:23

edited, post deleted ( thank you mod/s)

and for the record, racing incident imo too, unlucky adrian :( there'll be other chances :up:

Edited by wrighty, 12 July 2009 - 19:44.


#41 rileyl

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 19:41

I won't be too suprised if he is in a McLaren next year!

#42 Spunout

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 20:18

edited, post deleted ( thank you mod/s)

and for the record, racing incident imo too, unlucky adrian :( there'll be other chances :up:


Well, I agree it was racing incident, as there was no foul play by either Sutil or Räikkönen.

With that been said, this time Sutil only had himself to blame. 100%. As we can see from the onboard footage, Kimi gave him loads of space (see that JPM vs MS clip I posted earlier; JPM only gave minimum space for MS, and yet most people would agree he did nothing wrong). In fact, when the collision happened, KR was as outside as you can go, leaving the rest of the track for Sutil. KR was also ahead at the time. How much more space was he supposed to give?

Adrian had great opportunity to race for good points, so I understand why he pushed too far. We all feel bad for the underdog, but it seems lots of posters let this cloud their judgement.

Edited by Spunout, 12 July 2009 - 20:23.


#43 Ferrim

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 22:35

I had an idea back in 2008, after the Monaco race, and I thought about something to do, but I never did it. Now I have had to:

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#44 Henrik B

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 23:22

Meanwhile, we have this unbiased account of things from Autosport: "As the impressive Sutil left the pitlane, Raikkonen attempted to go around the outside of the German, but made contact with his rival, breaking his rival's front wing and dropping the former down the order to 15th by the finish."

Who made contact with who?

#45 whatto999

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 23:23

I personally think that Adrian has to be the unluckiest man in F1 at the moment. Most people say it is webber...


It's Rubens.

#46 brabhamBT19

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 23:29

Sutil is unlucky in a way, bu have you seen Fisico?

He was on the same pace as Sutil, he only rterted back bcause he was unlucky in qualis. So they shared bad luck, and FI again scored 0 pts. Its FI thats unlucky

Edited by brabhamBT19, 12 July 2009 - 23:30.


#47 Brawn BGP 001

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 00:07

Sutil is unlucky in a way, bu have you seen Fisico?

He was on the same pace as Sutil, he only rterted back bcause he was unlucky in qualis. So they shared bad luck, and FI again scored 0 pts. Its FI thats unlucky

I know, this is 3rd time he has been seconds off the points, he pulled of some great overtakes today, bravo Fisico. :up:

#48 armchair expert

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 00:10

Shouldn't Sutil have been given a drive through penalty? Like Bourdais got last year for getting in Massa's way.
 ;)


Sutil certainly appears to have inherited Webber's black cat. At least we know now, it won't last forever. :up:

#49 wild_sunflower

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 12:25

actually my mind is set that Adrian will be one of the 3 winners in Germany race ...but because of again Raikonnen his luck flew.... did Raikonnen got a personal angry to Adrian..hehehhehehe... i really like Adrian hopefully on Valencia race he will finish the race without any incidents or whatever :up:

#50 potmotr

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 14:58

He's not that unlucky.

He's been on for two good results this year and has hand a hand in his own demise both times.

Monaco last year was unlucky for sure.