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What will Ferrari do if Massa is 100% fit by Valencia?


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:18

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/77434

Felipe Massa is already thinking about racing again, and would be happy to get back into his Ferrari in the next race in Valencia, according to his personal doctor.

...................................

Reacting to the news that seven-time world champion Michael Schumacher would take his seat in the Ferrari while he was not able to drive again, Massa reportedly joked: "We have to see if I will let him drive!"


I can't help but think "PR fail" if its Massa getting into the Ferrari at Valencia and not Schumacher now that they've declared that Schumacher is driving. Would Ferrari keep him rested for say Valencia and Spa and let Michael drive. I can see why they may want to rest Massa for Spa as its one of the most demanding tracks on the calendar... but if Massa is 100%, that's a bit of a conundrum for Ferrari. :|

I think they should have waited until next week before announcing anything myself - seeing as Massa appears to be improving in leaps and bounds.

Edited by D.M.N., 30 July 2009 - 14:19.


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#2 mursuka80

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:20

I think MS will drive at Valencia,but if Felipe is fit enough in Spa of course he will drive.

#3 Crazy Ninja

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:22

I think Ferrari wil haev thought this through already. Even if Felipe was physically fit enough on the outside i highly doubt anyone would let him get back in the race car so soon after the accident. But yeah, i think Massa is far from fit enough to race anyway. These press releases where he jokes are great but it's just hiding the fact he wont be racing for a while IMO.

#4 Jimisgod

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:26

I think he's just saying he hasn't decided to leave racing after his injury. Doubt he'd be anywhere near 100% until next season though.

#5 Max!

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:28

Ferrari will just kick him on the head when he tells them he is fit to race :)

#6 JensonF1

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:29

When Ralf Schumacher had his massive crash in the US GP the FIA didn't let him race for ages.

Massa has had concussion and a cracked skull. The bone will take time to fully heal to normal strength.

There is no way he'll be 100% fit enough in time for Valencia, and though I am really very happy for Massa's recovery of course, I would rather see Schumacher see out the rest of the season to be honest. Not to take anything away from Massa... but he needs time to return to the cockpit. The risk of another accident so soon after that one would be too great a chance to take.

I want to see what Schumacher can do... I want this to happen now...badly.

#7 Mika Mika

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:29

Filepe fratured his skull in 2 places.....

6 weeks min i think...

#8 joachimvanwing

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:32

What is Massa is 100% fit by Valencia?!

Whoever thinks Felipe will be fit to drive soon, clearly doesn't understand was 'skullfracture' means. I'm glad for Felipe Massa he didn't loose his left eye.

#9 Rob

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:36

Felipe has a skull fracture! There's no way he is racing in Valencia.

#10 Atreiu

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:37

They'll give him the car, obviously.

#11 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:39

I had a skull fracture, which was an eye socket pushed inwards. Started working 1/2 days 3 and a half month later.

Presume that my injuries were worse than Massa's but I have a hard time seeing him being allowed to race in Valencia.

:cool:



#12 cheapracer

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:41

I hope Massa doesn't race the rest of the year - those types of injuries can lay dormant and just one reasonable knock to the head to soon could have serious results.

#13 potmotr

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:43

Felipe has a skull fracture! There's no way he is racing in Valencia.


Exactly.

Even is Massa wants to race the danger of a repeat injury to a skull fracture is too great to allow him back behind the wheel.

I'm afraid Massa is going to have to sit out the season while the bone which protects his brain mesh back together.

I'm sure this will frustrate him like crazy, but in these cases he has to listen to the doctors.

#14 arcwulf7

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 14:54

Massa has something in the order of 50/50 chance of ever racing again. Google Skull Fracture Diagnosis and you'll get pages of potential effects. A skull fracture is not a Concussion, it is an injury that requires the bones to mend, and brain hemorrhages and swelling completely heal, before any determination of permanent brain damage can be assessed. That will take a minimum of the rest of the season. The eye injury seems not to have been fully evaluated yet, since they have just surgically opened the eye. If Massa's ability to focus and coordinate the movement of both eyes to gauge distance is compromised in anyway, his career is over. At best he might be considered fit to race 6 months from now. But from all reports this is going to be a long haul. My guess is if he races F1 again it will not be before the 2011 season.

Edited by arcwulf7, 30 July 2009 - 15:36.


#15 mursuka80

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:06

What a hell? Hakkinen got lot more serious injuries than Massa and he raced an F1 car to 2 WDC`s so i think talking about Massa`s career is over a little premature.If his eyes are fine he should be racing in 2 months time.

#16 Flexa

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:10

The doctors confirmed Felipe won't have any consequences from the head damages and that his eye is not injured. His recovery is for 100%.



#17 Clatter

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:12

What a hell? Hakkinen got lot more serious injuries than Massa and he raced an F1 car to 2 WDC`s so i think talking about Massa`s career is over a little premature.If his eyes are fine he should be racing in 2 months time.


Brain injuries are strange things and you cannot compare what one person experienced to another.

#18 Kooper

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:14

Even is Massa wants to race the danger of a repeat injury to a skull fracture is too great to allow him back behind the wheel.

I'm afraid Massa is going to have to sit out the season while the bone which protects his brain mesh back together.

I'm sure this will frustrate him like crazy, but in these cases he has to listen to the doctors.


This what I think also. I don't expect him back until next season... I don't want him to return this year honestly, his injuries need to completely heal. Felipe being healthy is enough for me.

#19 D.M.N.

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:15

The doctors confirmed Felipe won't have any consequences from the head damages and that his eye is not injured. His recovery is for 100%.

What the doctors think and what actually happens are two different things.

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#20 primer

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:17

Itis so good to see Felipe's recovery. I always knew he would get into the car sooner rather than later. Can Ferrari 'reposition' Kimi to a factory role? :p Felipe and Michael would be pretty good team!

#21 VicR

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:18

If the doctors and the FiA clear Felipe, he will be in the car. It's as simple as that.

Isn't that what we ALL hope for really? I mean, that Felipe's injuries are not serious and that he will be back IN HIS seat as soon as possible. We ALL want this, right?

#22 Flexa

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:19

What the doctors think and what actually happens are two different things.


In most cases no, it's not.

#23 Chezrome

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:20

If the doctors and the FiA clear Felipe, he will be in the car. It's as simple as that.

Isn't that what we ALL hope for really? I mean, that Felipe's injuries are not serious and that he will be back IN HIS seat as soon as possible. We ALL want this, right?


What you call a 'question that begs the answer'. Don't count on honest reply's now that Schumacher is standing by as replacement.

#24 mursuka80

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:21

If the doctors and the FiA clear Felipe, he will be in the car. It's as simple as that.

Isn't that what we ALL hope for really? I mean, that Felipe's injuries are not serious and that he will be back IN HIS seat as soon as possible. We ALL want this, right?


I dont want to be an ass,but i think some people just want to see MS in more than just one race.Me personally i want Felipe back as soon as possible.

#25 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:21

Brain injuries are strange things and you cannot compare what one person experienced to another.



Half of the posts on this thread appear to have been written by victims of brain injuries. :rolleyes: People thinking Massa will just walk back into a car and his injuries are just a straight forward healing process, are quite frankly in dreamland. When the doctors say Massa can race again, they are not putting no timescale, or the level he can come back at. Everybody heals at a different rate. Lets give Massa half a year, then will know more about when or if he can come back at the level he was before. We should be thankful he is alive.

#26 valachus

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:26

In response to the topic opening question - "What will Ferrari do if Massa is 100% fit by Valencia?": IMHO, there can only be one answer, get a collective Nobel prize for medicine, and switch to the field of innovative medical services in the fields of neurology and orthopedics instead of building racing cars.

Now on this side of the time continuum, should Felipe really make a miracle recovery, they should be gracious enough to let Michael have at least a proper farewell race in Monza, and have Massa take over from Singapore onwards.

#27 expert

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:28

Love all these guys sitting on the internet thinking they know more than the doctors treating him. Brilliant! :rotfl:

Edited by expert, 30 July 2009 - 15:29.


#28 sephiroth

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:29

What the doctors think and what actually happens are two different things.


Yeah and just because scientists think that the world is billions of year old doesn't mean that it isn't 6000 years. And whats with all this evolution crap anyways.


(I logged in just to post this)

#29 djellison

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:29

seeing as Massa appears to be improving in leaps and bounds.


After major head trauma, this is a common issue - bold yet transient moments of normal behaviour. For example, Richard Hammond was on the phone and organizing an interview with the editor of one of his newspaper columns just a few days after his crash - and then a moment later, didn't recognize his own wife.

FM needs to rest for a long time. The brain is a squishy sensitive thing and will need a couple of months to recover. IMHO, it would be very wise for Massa to write off 2009 - let MS keep the seat warm - enjoy the arrival of his new family, and come back fully fit in 2010.

#30 Ruud de la Rosa

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:29

putting bone issue asides: as said before brain injuries are not easy to understand. he may seem he is 100%, but the ability to recuperate from another blow will be far less, I believe that was the main reason they sidetracked ralf at the time.

#31 EthanM

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:35

I don't think there is a doctor in the world that would clear him to race a month after a craniotomy, SIS aside.

#32 Henrik B

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:39

The doctors confirmed Felipe won't have any consequences from the head damages and that his eye is not injured. His recovery is for 100%.


No, they can in no way "confirm" that. It's too early. Signs are hopeful ofcourse, but him answering questions and driving a F1 car is two completely different things. Give me a doctor that isn't on Ferrari payroll that say that it's 100% that Massa will recover 100% and we'll talk. What the doctors say is that they haven found anything that will hinder him, yet.

We have gotten as far as "He will probably not die from his injuries". People need to realize that!

#33 Flexa

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:48

None of the doctors who are treating him are in Ferrari payroll.

As Altman explained yesterday during an interview for Globo, the cerebral Oedema in Felipe was too little to cause any consequences and it's disappearing already.

"The oedema was involving just a minimal part of the brain”, said the medic. “ There's nothing to worry about, and another surgeries aren't expected. There's no permanent damage. The way things are going, he'll be able to leave even before the ten days preview."

Edited by Flexa, 30 July 2009 - 15:52.


#34 VicR

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:00

I dont want to be an ass,but i think some people just want to see MS in more than just one race.Me personally i want Felipe back as soon as possible.


I get the same feeling and it makes me sick. No way do I want Michael to race if Felipe is perfectly capable and able to do it.

#35 Henrik B

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:02

None of the doctors who are treating him are in Ferrari payroll.

As Altman explained yesterday during an interview for Globo, the cerebral Oedema in Felipe was too little to cause any consequences and it's disappearing already.


From what I understand, Dino Altman isn't the treating doctor - and IS on Ferrari/Massa payroll. Massa is treated by hungarian doctors. They ofcourse discuss with Altman and keep him up to date, but my understanding is that he is no more than a spokesperson in this case.

What I wanted was a claim from his hungarian doctors that Massa will recover 100%, for SURE. I don't think you can find one.

#36 EthanM

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:03

I get the same feeling and it makes me sick. No way do I want Michael to race if Felipe is perfectly capable and able to do it.



Eeeeverybody's a doc all of a sudden :S I don't care about MS, I care that nobody rushes things, trust me I know way better than you guys ;)

PS http://tbi.unl.edu/s...sports/sis.html

#37 werks prototype

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:05

I dont want to be an ass,but i think some people just want to see MS in more than just one race.Me personally i want Felipe back as soon as possible.



I agree, in some of the posts Massa is looking a little sacrificial.

#38 Flexa

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:07

From what I understand, Dino Altman isn't the treating doctor - and IS on Ferrari/Massa payroll. Massa is treated by hungarian doctors. They ofcourse discuss with Altman and keep him up to date, but my understanding is that he is no more than a spokesperson in this case.


Dino is in Massa's payroll not Ferrari, if he pays him with the money he earns form the team that's another matter, and obviously he is one of the treating doctors.

What I wanted was a claim from his hungarian doctors that Massa will recover 100%, for SURE. I don't think you can find one.


That's because 2 days ago they decided only Dino will talk.

#39 cheapracer

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:11

In most cases no, it's not.


At this still very early stage as far as head injuries are concerned, yes it is.

You would never get Australian doctors spinning what these Hungarian doctors are spinning (if they really are) so soon. They would say something like "Filepe is doing as well as can be expected at this stage but theres a long way to go yet with more tests and observation required to determine if further complications may arise down the track but we are hopeful at this point for a good outcome" (no pun intended with the track bit, thats what Oz Docs really say).

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#40 Flexa

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:21

There are cases and cases, Massa just happens to be lucky in his one.

Due to the extension of the oedema in the brain being very minimal it allows the doctors to say Felipe will have no issues.

Had the damage been bigger obviously they would be approaching things more cautiously.

Edited by Flexa, 30 July 2009 - 16:22.


#41 Henrik B

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:21

Dino is in Massa's payroll not Ferrari, if he pays him with the money he earns form the team that's another matter, and obviously he is one of the treating doctors.


Why is that obvious? I've only seen him re-telling what the hungarian doctors have done (and ofcourse give highly optimistic statements about how well everything is progressing). I highly doubt that he is qualified to work in hungary, and as long as Massa is in a hungarian hospital, he will get his treatment from the hungarian specialists available. I've no doubt that Altman will oversee his rehab but we're not there yet.

#42 Flexa

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:27

When he refers to exams they've done he refers as "we".

The team is Altmann, Saillant, and Hungarian doctors.



#43 jack_rabbit

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:32

did he suffer severe concussion or not ? that's the question.
it seem not because did not mention severe headache in the daily reports.
it seem now that the damage are superficial and light that we thought

#44 EthanM

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:41

There are cases and cases, Massa just happens to be lucky in his one.

Due to the extension of the oedema in the brain being very minimal it allows the doctors to say Felipe will have no issues.

Had the damage been bigger obviously they would be approaching things more cautiously.



edema is a symptom not damage. Damage you receive in the white matter causes edema, which is just an accumulation of fluids, in laymans terms edema is swelling. The fact the edema subsided quickly is what got Felipe out of the induced coma and away from the ICU not an indication of lack of damage.

Once again, the danger in cases like this is SIS, to assess the risk of SIS you need time and plenty of it. PCS symptoms may not appear for up to 20 days after head trauma, there is no way a neurosurgeon would take the patient's word that "he's feeling fine" and clear him. He may be discharged after a week or 10 days if he is not in a life threatening stage, but that doesn't mean he'll walk out of the hospital and go bang his head on the wall for good luck or whatever. Head trauma takes time to fully heal.

#45 Jason Burton

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:44

I'm sorry Massa's not well but I think it's fantastic that we'll get to see Schumi again! :clap:

#46 Flexa

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:47

Thanks Ethan for clarification, indeed last part of my post wasn't expressed well.



#47 jeze

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 18:09

If he is fit by the time Brazil comes round, he'll probably be in the car. Obviously I'd be very careful in this situation, since there's no point for Felipe coming back 90 % to a car that's nowhere near winning races. Felipe is obviously in quite good health according to recent reports, but I'd be surprised to see him racing this year. I think Melbourne 2010 is a realistic target. It's quite clear that he wants to continue racing, I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd decided to quit voluntarily. So, given that he's a racing driver (like he'd say himself); for sure he'll be back ;)

#48 BullHead

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 18:15

I can't imagine Felipe back in a car this season, but I guess it is possible, good for PR and all that. 100% by Valencia? What if the race is moved to Mars? :drunk:

#49 Apollonius

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 18:28

If the doctors and the FiA clear Felipe, he will be in the car. It's as simple as that.

Isn't that what we ALL hope for really? I mean, that Felipe's injuries are not serious and that he will be back IN HIS seat as soon as possible. We ALL want this, right?



No. Now that I know that Massa is going to live and that he isn't going to be permanently disabled I could care less if he drives an F1 car again this season but I do care about Schumacher getting the drive - I'd much rather see Schumacher behind the wheel than Massa.

I think Massa has ideas above his station, time to get real and understand the gravitas of his injury and make way for his old master.

#50 VicR

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 20:45

No. Now that I know that Massa is going to live and that he isn't going to be permanently disabled I could care less if he drives an F1 car again this season but I do care about Schumacher getting the drive - I'd much rather see Schumacher behind the wheel than Massa.

I think Massa has ideas above his station, time to get real and understand the gravitas of his injury and make way for his old master.


Why do you rather see Michael getting the drive instead of Felipe IF Felipe is fit enough to get back? And I do mean IF. It's not Michael's seat anymore and he says so himself.

What is the reality and the truth in this case? There seems to be a lot of "doctors" on this forum lately. The gravity of his injury? It's up to the doctors to evaluate that, not you.