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Schumacher's super license


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#1 kraduk

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:46

I see that Schumacher has had to apply for a new super license. Is anyone familier with the full formal qualification criteria?

Looking at http://en.wikipedia....A_Super_Licence

it would appear he might not qualify as he is neither a reneging champion nor a current runner up.

I can't see him not getting it but would be very amused if he didn't

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#2 Dragonfly

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:49

He has at least 15 races in the previous three years. As IIRC one of the conditions says.
And there is always the option of individual decision based on other criteria.
How did Algersuari get his SL BTW?

#3 kraduk

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:50

British F3 champion i believe


#4 engel

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:51

5. Qualifi cation for the Super licence
5.1 The Super licence is issued by the Formula One Commission,
on its sole decision, following a specifi c request and
recommendation from the driver’s ASN, accompanied by his/her
record of results, and on the following conditions:
i) the driver is party to an agreement with a team entered in the FIA
Formula One World Championship to race a Formula One car in
the Championship in the year of application as fi rst, second or
reserve driver,
ii) the driver is the holder of a Grade A licence,
iii) the driver:
either a): has been classifi ed in the fi rst 4 of the fi nal classifi cation of
the GP2 Series within the previous 2 years,
or b): has been classifi ed in the fi rst 3 in at least 5 races, or in the
fi rst 6 in at least 10 races, of the GP2 Series, within the previous
2 years,
or c): has been classifi ed in the fi rst 3 of the fi nal classifi cation of the
Japanese F/Nippon Championship within the previous 2 years,
or d): has been classifi ed in the fi rst 6 of the fi nal classifi cation of
the Indy Racing League (IRL) series or of the Champ Car World
Series in the United States within the previous 2 years,
or e): is the current champion of the Euroseries 3000, the World
Series F/Renault V6 or the International F3000 Masters (the title
is considered valid for 12 months from the last race of his or her
championship season),
or f): is the current champion of the Formula 3 Euro Series or of
the principal National F3 Championship of one of the following
countries: Great Britain, Italy, Japan, (the title is considered valid
for 12 months from the last race of his or her championship
season),
or g): has started in at least 5 races counting for the FIA Formula One
World Championship for Drivers the previous year,
or h): (exceptionally), has a record of results which is judged
suffi cient, unanimously, by the Bureau of the Formula One
Commission and has driven at least 300 km in a current Formula
One car at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days,
certifi ed by the ASN of the country in which the test took place.
Only results obtained with single-seater formula cars will be taken
into consideration. Should the members of the Bureau not agree
unanimously, the Commission in its entirety will be consulted.
In this case, the complete application must be received by the FIA
at least 14 days before scrutineering for the fi rst FIA Formula One
World Championship event in which the candidate is to compete.
iv) the annual Super licence fee is paid to the FIA.

http://www.fia.com/r...ppendix_L_a.pdf

MS falls under h
I joked in another thread that MM might deny him a super license, in theory he can since MS hasn't driver a "current" F1 car.

#5 kraduk

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:52

hmm depends on how strict they are about years

if you count back three from today he doesn't, but if you count all of 2006 he does

#6 Viktor

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:53

Should not be a problem,

h): (exceptionally), has a record of results which is judged
suffi cient, unanimously, by the Bureau of the Formula One
Commission and has driven at least 300 km in a current Formula
One car at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days,
certifi ed by the ASN of the country in which the test took place.
Only results obtained with single-seater formula cars will be taken
into consideration. Should the members of the Bureau not agree
unanimously, the Commission in its entirety will be consulted.

I think his results will be accepted by the judges and he tested last years car with slicks last year.
Or he have payed the super licence fee during his years off and still have the licence.

/Viktor

#7 engel

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:53

there is no 3 years clause, the conditions for a superlicence are the ones I posted above

#8 kraduk

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:55

this is the bit that get me though

"Commission and has driven at least 300 km in a current Formula
One car at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days,"

Testing in the 2009 cars is banned though so how can he

Would lots of straight line tests count?



#9 Viktor

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:57

this is the bit that get me though

"Commission and has driven at least 300 km in a current Formula
One car at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days,"

Testing in the 2009 cars is banned though so how can he

Would lots of straight line tests count?

I would expect that current is a relative term, so a 2008 car is also a current car.

/Viktor

#10 Dragonfly

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:59

there is no 3 years clause, the conditions for a superlicence are the ones I posted above

I saw somewhere here the 15 races in 3 years but it was a quote and I am not sure where it has been taken from. When the SL of baoder and Gene were discussed.

Anyway I don't think there is or will be a problem with his SL.

#11 werks prototype

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 15:59

http://www.fia.com/r...ppendix_L_a.pdf

MS falls under h
I joked in another thread that MM might deny him a super license, in theory he can since MS hasn't driver a "current" F1 car.


That's the bit that stood out to me. So the question is how will this then be rectified. Because it no doubt will have to be for commercial reasons alone. 300km of straight line tests in the F60?

#12 highdownforce

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:06

h): (exceptionally), has a record of results which is judged
sufficient, unanimously, by the Bureau of the Formula One
Commission and ...


Hmmmm... How about someone deciding he doesn't have a record of results? :rolleyes:

Edited by highdownforce, 30 July 2009 - 17:47.


#13 Hippo

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:15

His tests last year certainly are considered as in a "recent" car. There wont be a problem for him getting the SL if he needs one. Writing that I'm wondering if he ever lost his SL. Hasn't he been testing for 07 too? I suppose that would have qualified him for a SL ever since he retired.

#14 Viktor

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:21

His tests last year certainly are considered as in a "recent" car. There wont be a problem for him getting the SL if he needs one. Writing that I'm wondering if he ever lost his SL. Hasn't he been testing for 07 too? I suppose that would have qualified him for a SL ever since he retired.

Question is if he/Ferrari have payed the super licence fee since then. He dose not need a super licence for testing.

/Viktor

#15 sreevishnu

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:21

FFS he is a 7 time F1 World Drivers Champion
I will tell once more 7 ok i will spell it also s-e-v-e-n----- Seven>> the one which comes after 6 :lol:


should there even be a question that "will he get the SL or not"
Man those Ide and some of his Japanese friendss manged to get one they why not a former F1 wdc

you guys are sooo blind

Edited by sreevishnu, 30 July 2009 - 16:25.


#16 Dragonfly

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 16:48

Man those Ide and some of his Japanese friendss manged to get one they why not a former F1 wdc

you guys are sooo blind

Well, there's always catch 22 :)

I don't think anyone is taking this seriously.

#17 PaulD.

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 17:34

there is no 3 years clause, the conditions for a superlicence are the ones I posted above


Sorry but you are wrong, you posted the sporting code from 2007 which is different from the current one:
This is the current one which includes the 3 year thing...

5. Qualifi cation and conditions of issue for the Super Licence
The FIA Formula One Driver Super Licence is issued by the FIA.
5.1 Qualifi cations
5.1.1 The driver must be the holder of a current FIA International Grade
A licence.
5.1.2 The driver must also satisfy at least one of the following
requirements:
a) have made at least 5 starts in races counting for the FIA Formula
One World Championship for Drivers the previous year, or at
least 15 starts within the previous 3 years.

b) have previously held the Super Licence and have been the
regular test driver with an F1 World Championship team for the
previous year.
c) been classifi ed, within the previous 2 years, in the fi rst 3 of
the fi nal classifi cation of the F2 Championship, or of the fi nal
classifi cation of the GP2 Series, or of the final classification of
the GP2 Asia Series or of the fi nal classifi cation of the Japanese
F/Nippon Championship,d) been classifi ed in the fi rst 3 of the fi nal classifi cation of the Indy
Racing League (IRL) series or of the Champ Car World Series
within the previous 2 years; been classifi ed in the fi rst 4 of the
fi nal classifi cation of the Indycar IRL series the previous year.*
* From 1.1.2010: been classifi ed in the fi rst 4 of the fi nal classifi cation of
the Indycar IRL series within the previous 2 years.
e) be the current champion of one of the following:
Formula 3 Euro Series
The principal national F3 championships of: Great Britain, Italy,
Japan, Spain
World Series F/Renault V6
N.B.: the title of Champion is considered valid for 12 months from the last
race of the relevant series or championship season.
f) be judged by the FIA to have consistently demonstrated
outstanding ability in single-seater formula cars, but with no
opportunity to qualify under any of c) to e) above. In this case the
F1 team concerned must show that the applicant has driven at
least 300 km in a current Formula One car consistently at racing
speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days, completed not more
than 90 days prior to the application and certifi ed by the ASN of
the country in which the test took place.
By exception, if supported by the Safety Commission, the FIA
World Motor Sport Council may approve the issue of the Super
Licence to persons judged by the Council to have met the intent
of the qualifi cation process.


5.2 Application Procedure
a) The complete application must be received by the FIA
at least 14 days before scrutineering for the fi rst FIA Formula
One World Championship event in which the candidate is to
compete. In the case of a driver change in the Championship
for reasons of force majeure, the FIA may accept applications
up to 48 hours before the start of initial scrutineering for the
event.
b) The ASN which issued the driver’s current competition licence
must submit to the FIA a specifi c recommendation, accompanied
by the driver’s record of results and current International A licence
number.
c) The driver must submit a completed Super Licence application
form to the FIA.
d) The annual Super Licence fee must be paid to the FIA.

5.3 Conditions of issue
5.3.1 When Articles 5.1 and 5.2 have been complied with to the
satisfaction of the FIA, it will issue the licence.
5.3.2 The Super Licence will be valid to the end of the year of issue.
5.3.3 A driver accepted under the terms of 5.1.2 f) above will be on
probation for a period of 12 months during which the Super
Licence will be held provisionally and subject to review at any
time.
5.3.4 A driver will remain eligible for the renewal of a fi rst Super Licence
for 8 months after the date of issue, subject to compliance with
5.2 b) to d) above.



PS: My first post here ;)

Edited by PaulD., 30 July 2009 - 17:36.


#18 Max!

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 17:35

http://www.fia.com/r...ppendix_L_a.pdf

MS falls under h
I joked in another thread that MM might deny him a super license, in theory he can since MS hasn't driver a "current" F1 car.


No he falls under art. 5.1.2a which states:
5.1.2 The driver must also satisfy at least one of the following
requirements:
a) have made at least 5 starts in races counting for the FIA Formula
One World Championship for Drivers the previous year, or at
least 15 starts within the previous 3 years


The problem is that the FIA has an older copy of appendix L on their website somewhere and google finds that instead of the above. Hence all the confusion.

edit: PaulD beat me to it. Good first post Paul.

Edited by Max!, 30 July 2009 - 17:38.


#19 24hourman

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 17:44

Regardless if the rules state that he is inelligble or legible for a super licence can you see him not getting one? I think not, Bernie must be rubbing his hands with glee at the hoards of additional TV viewers this will bring in. Not to mention the added excitement and media interest this is already creating. Bravo to Schumacher if he is to be in the car. He finished his career to early anyway with the descision to retire being made for him. In my humble opnion of course.

Edited by 24hourman, 30 July 2009 - 17:48.


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#20 tifosi

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 18:04

Sorry but you are wrong, you posted the sporting code from 2007 which is different from the current one:
This is the current one which includes the 3 year thing...




PS: My first post here ;)


First post and you are 100% correct. The 2009 Sporting Code is exactly as you state.
:up:


#21 Dragonfly

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 18:33

And my memory still counts for something :)

#22 JensonF1

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 18:34

This is a none issue.

#23 MichaelPM

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 18:42

Didn't Kimi start racing in F1 without a super license?

#24 mursuka80

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 18:58

Didn't Kimi start racing in F1 without a super license?


No.You cant race without a superlicense.I remember Max wasnt quite happy when they gave Kimi a superlicense.That warms my heart a little :) He thought he would be dangerous and too unexperienced.

#25 sreevishnu

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 19:08

No.You cant race without a superlicense.I remember Max wasnt quite happy when they gave Kimi a superlicense.That warms my heart a little :) He thought he would be dangerous and too unexperienced.

Actually Kimi was on a Provisional SL for the first 6 races.....FIA said they will have a close eye on him for the first 6 races.If he does ok and trouble free, then they will give him the full SL.
We know what happend later

Edited by sreevishnu, 30 July 2009 - 19:09.


#26 H2H

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 19:13


Given the h) chapter it is pretty much clear that he won't have the slightest problem with getting one...

#27 mursuka80

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 19:14

Actually Kimi was on a Provisional SL for the first 6 races.....FIA said they will have a close eye on him for the first 6 races.If he does ok and trouble free, then they will give him the full SL.
We know what happend later


I didnt know that! Thanks for info :wave: I remembered there was some difficulties with the license.


#28 Rob

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 19:22

5.1.2 The driver must also satisfy at least one of the following
requirements:

(snip)

f) be judged by the FIA to have consistently demonstrated
outstanding ability in single-seater formula cars, but with no
opportunity to qualify under any of c) to e) above. In this case the
F1 team concerned must show that the applicant has driven at
least 300 km in a current Formula One car consistently at racing
speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days, completed not more
than 90 days prior to the application and certified by the ASN of
the country in which the test took place.


The regulation states "at least one", so section (a) is not required as long as one of the others is. Schumi's record is more than enough to demonstrate outstanding ability in single seaters. :)

He will get a super license if he wants one. There is no question about it.

#29 wingwalker

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 19:32

It's a total non-issue.

#30 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 19:54

Does he still have a normal driver's license? I hear they are quite strict nowadays with senior citizens.



#31 Henrik B

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 20:05

It's a total non-issue.


Well, since FIA hate Valencia and would like to get "even" with another FOTA member... I'm not ruling it out. :)

#32 PaulD.

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 20:17

edit: PaulD beat me to it. Good first post Paul.


First post and you are 100% correct. The 2009 Sporting Code is exactly as you state.
:up:


thanks guys :blush:


This is a none issue.


Well I think so too but we have seen some strange things happen this year, ehh... :stoned:

Edited by PaulD., 30 July 2009 - 20:18.


#33 taran

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 09:02

German reporters already checked with the FIA. According to a FIA spokeswoman, a super license would not be a problem unless something unexpected came up (such as a medical condition) and cost 10,000 euros.


#34 Snap Matt

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 09:16

At least he won't have to shell out for the championship points premium on his licence fee.

#35 TOPCAT1976

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 09:25

Let's be honest, this is going to do wonders for F1 viewing figures. If I could cross post about this I would, but simply put, any obstacles that come up will be hurdled by all the teams in one foul swoop. I was never a huge Schumacher fan, but the return of a 7 times World Champion to play with the current crop of F1 kids will be something that will bring back anyone who wondered away from watching the F1 on a Sunday afternoon. And after all, it is about the show they put on and the viewers they get. More viewers = More money in the long term...

Just wait till Monza, the tifosi will be out in force. Can't wait.



#36 siggers

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 09:49

I have sworn never again to say 'Even FIA surely cannot ...', but if they come up with any fancy ideas about not giving Schumacher a super license they will be laughed off for eternity.

Actually Kimi was on a Provisional SL for the first 6 races.....FIA said they will have a close eye on him for the first 6 races.If he does ok and trouble free, then they will give him the full SL.
We know what happend later

This is technically correct, but nevertheless a bit of a red herring. It was not that Kimi was specifically given a provisional license, because there were doubts about him. It was just that the rules stated that any driver who was given a super license under the provision which applied to Kimi was given a provisional license and then it became a big media spiel ... Actually I thought it was for three races, but may be wrong on that. It has since become one of these eternal half-truth that will never vanish again.

There is a similar provision in the present rules btw.

5.3.3 A driver accepted under the terms of 5.1.2 f) above will be on probation for a period of 12 months during which the Super Licence will be held provisionally and subject to review at any time.


I would love to know how many tickets have been sold in the last 48 hours - any chance of Autosport getting some figures?

Edited by siggers, 31 July 2009 - 09:50.


#37 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 12:21

d) been classifi ed in the fi rst 3 of the fi nal classifi cation of the Indy
Racing League (IRL) series or of the Champ Car World Series
within the previous 2 years; been classifi ed in the fi rst 4 of the
fi nal classifi cation of the Indycar IRL series the previous year.*
* From 1.1.2010: been classifi ed in the fi rst 4 of the fi nal classifi cation of
the Indycar IRL series within the previous 2 years.


And people wonder why FIA rules are absurd! :drunk:

#38 ZZMS

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 19:22

V8, what's wrong with the wording?

#39 Dragonfly

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 19:27

Copy/Paste from a PDF I suppose.

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#40 Demo.

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 19:45

d) been classifi ed in the fi rst 3 of the fi nal classifi cation of the Indy
Racing League (IRL) series or of the Champ Car World Series
within the previous 2 years; been classifi ed in the fi rst 4 of the
fi nal classifi cation of the Indycar IRL series the previous year.*
* From 1.1.2010: been classifi ed in the fi rst 4 of the fi nal classifi cation of
the Indycar IRL series within the previous 2 years.


And people wonder why FIA rules are absurd! :drunk:

so it is easier for you to read.

d) been classified in the first 3 of the final classification of the Indy Racing League (IRL) series or of the Champ Car World Series within the previous 2 years;
been classified in the first 4 of the final classification of the Indycar IRL series the previous year.*
* From 1.1.2010: been classified in the first 4 of the final classification of the Indycar IRL series within the previous 2 years.
translated for you
they look at the top 3 from the final standings from 2 years ago and the top 4 from 1 year ago but from 2010 they will look at the top 4 from both years.
i do not see what is wrong with it it is clear.
What makes it less clear is due to the change in racing series and hence in their worth as regards driver overall placings.
But you cannot blame the FIA for that

Edited by Demo., 31 July 2009 - 19:48.