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'Motor Sport' magazine


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#551 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 21:22

Surely, Don, there is a correlation between the 'analytical and descriptive' report and your history?

You are all noting the lack of true information, so how can history be recorded in that situation? Hence there is a place for a report that goes to the back rooms, that comes from someone with experience in observing what goes on with the cars.

Of course, they might have to tread on a lot of toes to get that information. Maybe too many... maybe it can't actually be done today?

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#552 Lemans

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 00:03

"The June issue arrived while I was at Fort Benning. Last night I took a look at it and it isn't bad. Getting there I would guess, especially since the layout did not invoke the usual level of spatial disorientation.....

Oh, please let Richard Haseltine know that Tiny Lund was actually from Iowa and that he settled outside Cross, SC and opened his fishing camp on Lake Moultrie as an investment opportunity which soon became the real focus of his life as the racing wound down in the late-1960s and early 1970s. Tiny was a helluva guy and the documentary was really pitiful in showing just what sort of person he really was as well as those of the time. "

Don, got my June issue and I was much impressedby the improvement but did see some errors on the movie article. Tiny Lund 's big break came result of Marvin Panch was driving a Maserati in practice at Daytona International Speedway when the car became airborne, slid on it's top and caught fire. Rather than in practice for the Daytona 500, I have always heard that Panch was practicing the sports car and recomended Tiny for his ride int the 500. I saw Tiny's fatal accident at Talledega in 1975. He was a real chracter. Of all the movies, I liked Le Mans the best for pure racing action but wonder where The Racers is on the list?

I like the articles on Mike Spence and the McLaren F1 GTR winning at Le Mans. I didnt really know alot about Mike Spence other than his death at Indy so this was informative. The McLaren story was more familar. Visiually, MS seemed easier to follow.

#553 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 00:35

There were more things I could have said about Tiny and the comments about him, but I edited them out and left it what I said. MS still has a ways to go before these sorts of nagging -- usually irritating and avoidable -- errors get cut to a minimum. There are other errors sprinkled about the magazine, but they are often of the sort that come from its simply being a magazine and, hence, many folks get to play with the words before they hit the page. Some, however, are simply the result of poor research.

On a scale of 10 being high and 0 being birdcage liner, this issue perhaps makes it to about a low "6" or high "5" -- versus the usual "3" or "4" or even the occasional "5" that seems to be the order of the day. Just my opinion, of course. If MS can get to where the standard is pretty much a "6" or "7" as the norm, that will be okay since it difficult to crank out "8s" and "9s" all the time, as many a publisher has discovered. Give everyone a "7" as an average and I think folks could either stop or reduce the whining and bashing.

There are aspects of the magazine I still dislike -- such as articles for the attention deficit versus anything such as real depth in some instances, nor will I even mention the cover color problem since it wouldn't be an issue of the contents were as good as they should be (it could be neon, vibrating, dayglow Playboy Pink and not a soul would care if they found turning the pages a pleasure), but I think progress is being made.

From the July issue onward for the next year, I will have to wait to read when I return. I hope they will be worth it.

#554 oldtimer

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 00:37

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Surely, Don, there is a correlation between the 'analytical and descriptive' report and your history?

You are all noting the lack of true information, so how can history be recorded in that situation? Hence there is a place for a report that goes to the back rooms, that comes from someone with experience in observing what goes on with the cars.

Of course, they might have to tread on a lot of toes to get that information. Maybe too many... maybe it can't actually be done today?


We get reports ad nauseum from the hospitality 'tents', but when did we last see or hear of someone sneaking through the F1 homeland security system?

In my book collection is a photo of DSJ, notebook at the ready, waiting as Mike Hawthorn climbs out of his Ferrari after some practice laps. That seems to say it all about then and now in regard to both the sport and the journalism about it.

#555 ensign14

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 05:58

There also seems to be a corporatism in the reports. Has Autosport - or presumably the overseas equivalents - even mentioned that Willi Weber is being sued by a former business partner over his contract with Michael Schumacher? And that Weber is facing charges of contempt of court (or the German equivalent) over allegedly getting a witness to perjure themselves? Or are they afraid that any criticism will result in access to the Schumachers being nixed?

#556 john aston

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:26

Autosport is a bloody disgrace these days. Its editorial is mainly recycled press releases and it concentrates on effone to the virtual exclusion of all else.Typical piece is 5 pages long, a few hundred cliche riddled words saying nothing of any interest- punctuated by endless glossy pictures.And national racing- well ,it gets about the same coverage as Saubers new windtunnel .Strange, is it not ,that last week's edition (yes why do I buy it ?) contained not a word about this week's pre gp test at Silverstone- my only chance to watch GP cars in action without a bank loan.Still, now that effone is a TV sport WTF are spectators for ?

#557 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 23:00

Oh, the Adam Cooper column, "Trackforward," in the June issue was a complete puzzle to me since I had absolutely no clue as to what he was talking about and the column did zero to enlighten me as to why BAR got tossed out of the paddock. Yes, this certainly reflects my ignorance of Current Events, but I do wonder if I was the only one scratching my head over this rather enigmatic offering. Just an observation.

#558 RTH

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 09:46

Originally posted by john aston
Autosport is a bloody disgrace these days. Its editorial is mainly recycled press releases and it concentrates on effone to the virtual exclusion of all else.Typical piece is 5 pages long, a few hundred cliche riddled words saying nothing of any interest- punctuated by endless glossy pictures.And national racing- well ,it gets about the same coverage as Saubers new windtunnel .Strange, is it not ,that last week's edition (yes why do I buy it ?) contained not a word about this week's pre gp test at Silverstone- my only chance to watch GP cars in action without a bank loan.Still, now that effone is a TV sport WTF are spectators for ?


John, trust me you will feel a lot better when you don't have to open it each week .

#559 Rob29

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 11:38

Just picked up this morning a GREEN Autosport! At least some traditions are still being maintained.

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#560 mark f1

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 13:32

I didn't realise that Fred Alonso had a UK connection....... :p

#561 Rob29

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 13:51

Originally posted by mark f1
I didn't realise that Fred Alonso had a UK connection....... :p

Rather disproves the theory that Autosport only cares about F1? Must be just 50 years since I saw my first green Autosport ,for Le Mans 55-though maybe that one should have been black.

#562 ian senior

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 14:52

Perhaps I'm not trying hard enough, but it seems to me that Motor Sport is becoming increasingly difficult to buy in the shops.

I buy most of my magazines at W H Smith on Euston station. I never saw the June edition (or at least the one that was on sale in June - why can't publishers put on the date in which it goes on sale???) there at all. I was about to buy it at WHS on Kings Cross station, but couldn't face the queue as I was running late to catch a train to go oop north. Never mind, I thought, I'll get it on York station - but it wasn't there either. None of my local shops at home had it - all part of the Martins/McColl chain, and they used to stock it. Wasn't in any other shops either. God knows if I'll ever see it again.

Yes, I could subscribe, but these days I like to see what I buy before I part with any cash.

#563 David Beard

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 18:34

Originally posted by Rob29
Just picked up this morning a GREEN Autosport! At least some traditions are still being maintained.


Someone at Haymarket 'avin a larf :confused:

#564 JohnS

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 19:54

Originally posted by David Beard


Someone at Haymarket 'avin a larf :confused:


An Autosport tradition to celebrate British success, in this case Wheldon winning the Indy 500.

#565 Ruairidh

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 14:33

Well, I'm now back on the list of official paid subscribers (hint to US based subscribers - send a check in with your subscription card rather than ask to be billed later).

And, red cover aside, I'm glad to see it arrive. Still too styled and too many short soundbite articles for me to truly love it (but I accept I am a fossil in these times) but some good writing (more please!!!) and good photography. I do like the ask a driver slot - I enjoyed the Mozart Redman q+a immensely.

#566 Barry Boor

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 20:18

Just had the July issue and I must on first glance it looks very good indeed.

Some nice pictures from Pau; a good article about Tom Pryce and a letter from our own Darren Galpin too; and lots of other good stuff.

Well done, M.S.

Even the cover is tidier. (Now, about that green header.....)

#567 Stuart_Forrest

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 20:32

Crikey that was quick. The cover ink was still wet on Monday morning..

#568 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 07:03

I have to admit, for the first time in over a year or so I am methodically reading through EVERY article.

Well done folks.

(Pity about the "NONGREEN" cover though) :cry:

#569 Stuart_Forrest

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 08:59

[i]

(Pity about the "NONGREEN" cover though) :cry: [/B]

If you visit the Audi stand at the Goodwood FOS next week, you'll find a (once only, never to be repeated) green version of the current issue....

(runs for cover)

#570 ian senior

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 09:12

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest


(runs for cover)


Which cover? The green one?

#571 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 09:51

There's plenty of green cover in Sherwoo... sorry... the bushes at Goodwood.

#572 Maldwyn

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 08:11

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest


If you visit the Audi stand at the Goodwood FOS next week, you'll find a (once only, never to be repeated) green version of the current issue....

(runs for cover)

A good place for a TNF gathering :) Hopefully we'll stand out ;)

#573 David Beard

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 11:58

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest


If you visit the Audi stand at the Goodwood FOS next week, you'll find a (once only, never to be repeated) green version of the current issue....

(runs for cover)


You've got to tell us how and why that happened, Stuart!

Excellent issue of Motor Sport, again. Wasn't quite sure of the significance of the editorial on the current Touring Car championship, though....

Doug Nye's Maser piece was lovely, but I got confused when he got onto gearboxes. I wonder if he meant helical gears, not bevel? And perhaps Module 7 gears, not Model 7? (although I'm not sure whether a Module 7 gear profile is the right sort of size, or what it is called in Italian)

#574 Mallory Dan

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 12:03

David, I'm with you on the Editorial very odd indeed. As for the Nye Maser piece, sounds like a may skip that one ...

#575 Stuart_Forrest

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 12:53

Originally posted by David Beard


You've got to tell us how and why that happened, Stuart!


It just sort of....happened. Anyway, it does mean that the magazine should find its way into the hands of many readers who haven't seen it before, or perhaps haven't seen it in a while, which can only be a good thing.

If I might take the opportunity to indulge in some shameless promotion, we'll be offering subscriptions to Motor Sport, Classic & Sports Car and our other titles from our stand. As well as speedy delivery and a healthy discount, you'll also be able to walk away with one of our nice free gifts; we have some copies of a new book on the history of F1 by Mark Hughes (it is still being printed at the moment, but the copy that I've seen has some fantastic and, for me, unseen pictures), a rather fetching Motor Sport picnic hamper, or an Autoglym valet case.

I'll be on the stand for most of the weekend, so if anyone wants to come along and say hello, please do. It'd be good to put some faces to names.

#576 Pils1989

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 13:11

I've subscribed to Motor Sport and Classic & Sports Car at LM Classic 2005 but only got charged for MS.
I don't mind as I still got the two gifts :D and got a subscription to Classic & Sports Car for Christmas.
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#577 Stuart_Forrest

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 13:27

Originally posted by Pils1989
I've subscribed to Motor Sport and Classic & Sports Car at LM Classic 2005 but only got charged for MS.
I don't mind as I still got the two gifts :D and got a subscription to Classic & Sports Car for Christmas.
Posted Image


That was nice of us. Can't promise the same at Goodwood I'm afraid.

#578 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 16:23

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest
If you visit the Audi stand at the Goodwood FOS next week, you'll find a (once only, never to be repeated) green version of the current issue....

(runs for cover)


If I could hitch a C-17 from Kuwait to the UK I would love to pop in and grab a copy. However, since I am rather preoccupied at the moment with a minor thing called Operation Iraqi Freedom, which has my schedule rather full right now, guess I will just have to wait until I get home next year to read the "normal" copy of the issue....

#579 Roger Clark

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 16:38

Originally posted by David Beard


Doug Nye's Maser piece was lovely, but I got confused when he got onto gearboxes. I wonder if he meant helical gears, not bevel?

What makes you think that David?

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#580 David Beard

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 17:05

Originally posted by Roger Clark

What makes you think that David?


It sounded like the cogs in the actual gearbox were under discussion, not those in the final drive. How can you have bevel gears in a gearbox? Helical ones to reduce noise, yes: usually replaced by straight cut ones for competition for reduced power consumption and to blazes with the racket.

Look in your standard gear catalogue and you get the choice between Module and DP types. Hadn't heard of "Model 7": or is that how the Italians say it?

I feel I'm sticking my neck out here...sorry if this is all all round my neck and utter tosh, DCN :

Edit again...now looked at DSJ book. :rolleyes:

Bevel gears on infeed to transverse gearbox....

I'll get me coat....

#581 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 17:28

Donald, perhaps you could persuade the powers that be in The Pentagon to arrange a LAPES demonstration at nearby Goodwood Aerodrome - maybe drop in a Hummer and then you could have a go at the new "Forest Rally Stage" Lord March has set up for this year's festival.

#582 Owain Shaw

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 17:32

Originally posted by ian senior
Perhaps I'm not trying hard enough, but it seems to me that Motor Sport is becoming increasingly difficult to buy in the shops.

I buy most of my magazines at W H Smith on Euston station. I never saw the June edition (or at least the one that was on sale in June - why can't publishers put on the date in which it goes on sale???) there at all. I was about to buy it at WHS on Kings Cross station, but couldn't face the queue as I was running late to catch a train to go oop north. Never mind, I thought, I'll get it on York station - but it wasn't there either. None of my local shops at home had it - all part of the Martins/McColl chain, and they used to stock it. Wasn't in any other shops either. God knows if I'll ever see it again.

Yes, I could subscribe, but these days I like to see what I buy before I part with any cash.


I haven't been able to find last month's edition either, I looked for ages in Smiths, checked behind every other magazine in the motoring section and nothing. Same in the local Martin's. A little worrying.

#583 Roger Clark

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 17:50

Originally posted by David Beard


It sounded like the cogs in the actual gearbox were under discussion, not those in the final drive. How can you have bevel gears in a gearbox? Helical ones to reduce noise, yes: usually replaced by straight cut ones for competition for reduced power consumption and to blazes with the racket.

I assumed that Doug was referring to the gear on the gearbox mainshaft connecting it to the propeller shaft. I'm not arguing about model/module though.

Getting back onto the topic, I thought it was a good issue. and was particularly pleased to see (page 37) that the August issue is being published today.

#584 Stuart_Forrest

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 19:00

Originally posted by Owain Shaw


I haven't been able to find last month's edition either, I looked for ages in Smiths, checked behind every other magazine in the motoring section and nothing. Same in the local Martin's. A little worrying.


We're actually listed under motor racing within WHSmiths, which will mean that you should be able to find us close to F1 Racing and Autosport. In my local store (Kingston) this is actually about 20 feet away from C&SC, Classic Cars and an assortment of other classic titles. It's a constant problem for us actually, but one we're powerless to influence.

Without going on unduly, it is significantly cheaper to subscribe, and you'll never miss an issue...

#585 Owain Shaw

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 19:30

In my local store the two are close together, just on different levels of shelving. I checked everywhere, looked behind F1 Racing, Autosport and other red motor racing titles just to be sure I hadn't missed it, it really wasn't there. Same deal in Martins. :

I would say "When it was green I could spot it walking in the door" but, I dare say I couldn't do that under similar test conditions of it not being there at all.;)

#586 Lec CRP1

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 08:50

Next issue of Motor Sport looks good, what with a Rosberg / Roebuck smoking competition and all but "ISSUE ON SALE JUNE 17" (p37) ? :confused:

Or have I missed something here?

#587 RTH

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 16:51

Originally posted by Owain Shaw
In my local store the two are close together, just on different levels of shelving. I checked everywhere, looked behind F1 Racing, Autosport and other red motor racing titles just to be sure I hadn't missed it, it really wasn't there. Same deal in Martins. :

I would say "When it was green I could spot it walking in the door" but, I dare say I couldn't do that under similar test conditions of it not being there at all.;)


Quite right .........and as Mr Spock would have said "It's illogical Captain"

#588 Macca

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 08:14

Just got the new one - pretty good, despite not being green. :cool:

The photo of Bandini on p 57 is captioned as 1966, but is actually the 1.5 litre flat-12 in the 1965 Monaco GP; however, the small pic at the bottom-right of the front cover is indeed Bandini in the 158/246 V6 in the 1966 race, climbing the hill to Massenet.


Paul M

#589 Roger Clark

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 09:00

Originally posted by Macca
Just got the new one - pretty good, despite not being green. :cool:

The photo of Bandini on p 57 is captioned as 1966, but is actually the 1.5 litre flat-12 in the 1965 Monaco GP; however, the small pic at the bottom-right of the front cover is indeed Bandini in the 158/246 V6 in the 1966 race, climbing the hill to Massenet.


Paul M

The picture of Hill on the same page is not 1970 as he is wearing Gold Leaf overalls.

The rather arty picture of Amon on pages 54 and 55 is not Monaco '67. It looks like the 1968 car, but obviously not Monaco.

#590 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 09:11

We have discussed the red cover here many times and over at 10/10ths, however I did see on the telly recently an interview with the journalist Jane Moore who has a new book out. She said in the interview, the cover design was to be a pair of purple lips. A well known supermarket chain beginning with 'T' would not stock this book unless the lips were red on the cover. It would appear they have that much power. Same with Motor Sport?

#591 Mallory Dan

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 12:20

Andrew if that TESCO comment is true its v scary. We all know the power they hold over whole sections of UK shopping these days, and their suppliers, but if they dictate down to that level, then we'd better watch out. Much as I'm a free-marketeer Capitalist, this appalls me.

FWIW, my wife does our groceries there, but I refuse to buy anything else from them, eg petrol/papers/mags/clothes/insurances/electrical stuff etc etc. I realise there's more than a little hypocrisy in my stance, but I also think its worth supporting more 'specialist' shops where possible.

Back O/T, the new MS looks pretty good (again) on first glance.

#592 Mallory Dan

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 12:43

y

#593 Gary C

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 13:40

....I think that the last couple of Motorsport's have shown true improvement, keep it up lads! :up:

#594 Gary C

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 13:49

...and yes, Roger, I too have spotted that the Graham Hill / Chapman pic wasn't 1970 because of the Gold Leaf logo on his overalls!

#595 Macca

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 06:41

The picture of Clark at Monza on p 57 is not 1967 but 1966 in the Lotus 43-BRM, as you can see John Surtees behind him in a Cooper-Maserati.


Paul M

#596 Barry Boor

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 07:19

I wonder who is actually responsible for all these caption errors.

I guess it is probably the photographer himself....

#597 Mallory Dan

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 08:43

While we're nit-picking, the Winklehock article by the usually reliable Adam Cooper, states that he didn't get on with ground effect cars too well. He then contradicts himself by adding that he finished a good 3rd at the Ring, but this was in a non-GE RT1, there's even a pic of him in it.

I'll get my coat...

#598 David Beard

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 11:55

Following the Best Touring Car Drivers list earlier this year, and last month's mysterious modern touring car editorial, this month's has a large article on touring racing which I probably won't bother to read. If you are interested in saloon cars racing you can watch from a motorway bridge...

And the Keke feature didn't have a current photo of him.

Not the best issue this year.

#599 JohnS

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 13:22

Originally posted by David Beard
If you are interested in saloon cars racing you can watch from a motorway bridge...


Love it! :lol:

John

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#600 Mallory Dan

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 14:06

Originally posted by David Beard
Following the Best Touring Car Drivers list earlier this year, and last month's mysterious modern touring car editorial, this month's has a large article on touring racing which I probably won't bother to read. If you are interested in saloon cars racing you can watch from a motorway bridge...

And the Keke feature didn't have a current photo of him.

Not the best issue this year.


Agree largely DAB re 'saloons' but otherwise I reckon the issue looks OK. Haven't read the Keke thing yet, I hope there's some about his Opert Chevron escapades, tho' I'm not fussed about a current pic.

I think the Roebuck article is the best for a while, less of him pontificating, and more of his subject. What a shame SFW is no longer allowed to speak as he does in this piece, and his predictions for Keke were brilliant.