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'Motor Sport' magazine


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#801 Tomas Karlsson

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 11:39

Richard Heseltine's article on the Ferrari 750 Monza - says "Thanks to Conrod Cars and The Nostalgia Forum (www.atlasf1.com)" in a small box at the left hand corner of the top image.


I wonder what he found here at TNF, because he hasn't got the Swedish history of the car quite right...
... that is, almost nothing was right. I wonder where he got the facts from?

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#802 Kpy

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 19:33

It's the paper the latest issue's printed on that I hate.
We often say that something isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Well this is the opposite. Where's Stuart_Forrest when you need him? My copy arrives regularly in France on the Monday following publication. That's great, but the current issue is shrivelling before my eyes. My subscription will be due for renewal soon. Two more issues on this paper, and it's "thanks but no thanks".

#803 Twin Window

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 19:56

Originally posted by Kpy

Where's Stuart_Forrest when you need him?

Give the bloke a break! Believe it or not, he really does have other things to do than monitor all things TNF... :rolleyes:

As it happens, I spoke to him earlier today and he will be posting some news in due course - when he has the time... And, when such a moment arrives, I'm sure he'll pay due attention to everyone's comments.

As he always tries to do, in fact.

#804 Kpy

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 20:33

Originally posted by Twin Window
Give the bloke a break! Believe it or not, he really does have other things to do than monitor all things TNF... :rolleyes:

As it happens, I spoke to him earlier today and he will be posting some news in due course - when he has the time... And, when such a moment arrives, I'm sure he'll pay due attention to everyone's comments.

As he always tries to do, in fact.


So the job's more important than the customer? I'll contact Haymarket direct with my cancellation.

#805 Vitesse2

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 20:52

Originally posted by Kpy


So the job's more important than the customer? I'll contact Haymarket direct with my cancellation.

His job is to produce a magazine: without a magazine, he'd have no customers.

#806 Twin Window

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 20:59

Originally posted by Kpy

So the job's more important than the customer?

Did I actually say that? No, I didn't.

Stuart is a very busy bloke, and tries his level best to attend to everything on his plate. One such thing is responding to readers' comments here on TNF. He does this with regularity; so be grateful, as others in his shoes wouldn't necessarily be prepared to make the same effort.

As for cancelling your sub, that's entirely your prerogative. Just a pity that you'd already stated that was your intention two posts earlier, as that tends to dilute the effect...

#807 Kpy

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 20:59

Originally posted by Vitesse2

His job is to produce a magazine: without a magazine, he'd have no customers.


Without customers there will be no magazine.

#808 Antoine Pilette

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 21:04

I was going to suggest a group-hug but then... :


*running away... fast* :D

#809 Kpy

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 21:20

Originally posted by Twin Window
Did I actually say that? No, I didn't.

Stuart is a very busy bloke, and tries his level best to attend to everything on his plate. One such thing is responding to readers' comments here on TNF. He does this with regularity; so be grateful, as others in his shoes wouldn't necessarily be prepared to make the same effort.

As for cancelling your sub, that's entirely your prerogative. Just a pity that you'd already stated that was your intention two posts earlier, as that tends to dilute the effect...


No you didn't "say that" and I didn't say I'd cancel my subscription until after, and as a result of, your post.

#810 D-Type

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 21:33

Come on! Stuart didn't have to come on here, did he? At least give him credit for doing so.

#811 Kpy

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 21:43

Originally posted by D-Type
Come on! Stuart didn't have to come on here, did he? At least give him credit for doing so.


Quite right. Massive credit to him. I was amazed and pleased when he appeared.
It's just a little odd that that, just when MotorSport puts its price up and reduces its paper quality, he hasn't responded to any comments here since September 18.

#812 Twin Window

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 21:48

Originally posted by Kpy at 20:33

Two more issues on this paper, and it's "thanks but no thanks".

Originally posted by Kpy at 22:20

...and I didn't say I'd cancel my subscription until after, and as a result of, your post.

Really?

#813 Ruairidh

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 21:57

So are there any more topics on TNF that are more contentious than those involving Chris Amon or the MotorSport mag?

#814 Kpy

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 22:06

Originally posted by Twin Window
Really?

Yes really.
You just moved the goal posts. Check which posts you've timed.
The first one you timed is not a "I'm cancelling my subscription post", the second is, well you can work it out.
I'm really sorry if you think I've hurt your friend. I've been a reader of Motor Sport and MotorSport since the mid-fifties, and I'd just like to keep reading a decent motor racing magazine printed on decent paper. Is that too much to ask?

#815 bira

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 22:10

Is there really any subscription price that would be worth having a client like this?

I like Stuart Forrest. I think his decision to register on TNF and take the heat personally was admirable. Not only did he not have to do it - I still wonder if he should have done it.

So... I'm thinking... anyone know what the price of a MotorSport subscription is nowadays? I figure, I'll buy one in exchange for kpy cancelling his. Surely the magazine will be better for it.

#816 Kpy

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 22:13

Originally posted by bira


So... I'm thinking... anyone know what the price of a MotorSport subscription is nowadays? I figure, I'll buy one in exchange for kpy cancelling his. Surely the magazine will be better for it.

Surely it will.
Sorry I spoke.

#817 Antoine Pilette

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 23:53

Some are getting their guns out a bit too easily! :lol:

Top service from Stuart :up:

(Haven't seen the new paper)

#818 David Hyland

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 05:15

Originally posted by Ruairidh
So are there any more topics on TNF that are more contentious than those involving Chris Amon or the MotorSport mag?

Perhaps the next issue of MotorSport could include a full transcript of "the Amon thread" under the heading "History of the U.S. West Grand Prix" - that should keep everyone (un)happy... :rolleyes:

#819 Gary Davies

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 05:48

Perhaps a bit of vaguely related levity might not go astray in this long and belaboured thread. The September issue has just been flung into my driveway in the Adelaide Hills and therein, WB observes of Jenks "... that when he tired of his second E-type Jenks left it to rot in the bushes outside his Hampshire cottage. When he terminated his employment with MotorSport, the magazine's proprietor wanted the return of what had been a company car. He sent a truck to Crondall to collect it. But by then the car was so rotten that the truck driver found he could push a finger through the rusted body panels and said that if he tried to load the thing it would fall to pieces."

Tut tut! How very Jenks!! Brought a smile to the face, did that.

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#820 green-blood

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 08:21

To be honest lads I've had a few mix ups with MS this year, not helped by a feeling of mild dissapointment at some of the "modernisation" , nobody on a flight notices the mag I'm reading anymore, where as the green was always, oh I dunno, exclusive!!

Anyway Stuart has sorted all my gripes, for which I am extremely grateful, my November even reached Dublin within 4 days of shelf time in the UK - a record for me. I don't like the paper either, but I hope we have solved the subs issue. The man can speak for himself, but it seems he was not aware of the contradictory sub offers being made.

#821 Stuart_Forrest

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 11:43

Dear All,

Crikey, you go out of the office for one day, and the place goes mad. I'm here most days, I just happen to be of the view that if I have nothing to say, then I'll say nothing.

I've said before that we're not in the business of attempting to defend criticism of the content of the magazine. This thread proves time and time again that we can't possibly hope to please all of the people all of the time, but we do listen to criticisms in a bid to please at least some of you some of the time. Seriously though, we do read all feedback, and it is taken on board. Thanks for everything that has been said about the November issue, good or bad.

On the subject of subscriptions renewal pricing, this is a genuine problem (if restricted to a very small number of readers) that I wasn't aware of until I read of it here. I've tackled a few problems using the PM system, and we're in the process of looking at our offers. Needless to say that with 14,000 subscribers worldwide, we sometimes make mistakes.

I'm about to start a brand new thread soon, which I hope will be taken with the spirit in which it is intended. We're working on a very large feature for next year, and we'd like the collective thoughts and ruminations of TNF'ers for this. I hope that it will engender the sort of friendly and authoritative discussion which best characterises this place.

More soon...

Stuart

#822 ian senior

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 11:47

Whatever our views on Motor Sport and the people who run it, I think it's absolutely wonderful that Stuart comes on here and is prepared to put his head above the parapet. Let's face it, he doesn't have to do it. Good on him. And I'm looking forward to his new thread.

#823 Ruairidh

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 13:05

Originally posted by ian senior
Whatever our views on Motor Sport and the people who run it, I think it's absolutely wonderful that Stuart comes on here and is prepared to put his head above the parapet. Let's face it, he doesn't have to do it. Good on him. And I'm looking forward to his new thread.


Well said. And when I was having subscription problems in the US (the US distributors didn't want my money - go figure that out!) Stuart went above and beyond the call of duty. I've said this before - MS ain't perfect but it is better than anything else I see out there......

#824 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 13:23

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest
I just happen to be of the view that if I have nothing to say, then I'll say nothing.

Ah - a man after my own heart .... :up:

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest
Seriously though, we do read all feedback, and it is taken on board.

I would still like to see some of the errors corrected with a bit more conviction. There's seldom an air of humble pie about the apologies that do appear. C&SC do it with good grace and a certain amount of self-deprecatory humour ..... :up:

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest
I'm about to start a brand new thread soon, which I hope will be taken with the spirit in which it is intended. We're working on a very large feature for next year, and we'd like the collective thoughts and ruminations of TNF'ers for this. I hope that it will engender the sort of friendly and authoritative discussion which best characterises this place.

More soon...

Stuart

I like the confidence in that statement.

Originally posted by ian senior
Whatever our views on Motor Sport and the people who run it, I think it's absolutely wonderful that Stuart comes on here and is prepared to put his head above the parapet. Let's face it, he doesn't have to do it. Good on him.

Hear, hear!

#825 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 13:37

It is due to Stuart Forrest's dogged determination to publish a good magazine and endure no end of being told that his dog is ugly that I have changed my tune and do my best to support MS. I will support someone who is game to give it their best shot any day, day after day. While MS is not perfect, I think that it has to be made clear to many that cranking out such an enterprise is tough and the more I have looked at it, the tougher it seems to be.

I applaud Stuart and appreciate his forthright efforts in customer service that I think few can even begin to imagne.

#826 Gary Davies

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 13:55

Hear, hear. Very well put.

#827 SEdward

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 15:00

I will be renewing my Motor Sport subscription in the next few days.

No need to add anything else.

Edward

#828 David Beard

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 15:43

Originally posted by Vitesse2

I would still like to see some of the errors corrected with a bit more conviction. There's seldom an air of humble pie about the apologies that do appear.


You expect Marcus to write all the corrections? ;)

#829 Mallory Dan

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 10:49

I thought the Macao GP article was interesting, the bit about getting rid of Atlantic (which touches on the John Webb thread). Seems to me that the 'European lot', via Barry Bland, wanted to get access to the event, for money/holiday reasons perhaps. So instead of getting hold of Atlantics and competing, they attempted to change the event to one for F2 cars, or as it transpired F3s.

Easier and cheaper for them no doubt, but surely the event as a whole lost something, becoming 'just another' F3 event.

Was this a case of the establishment imposing its own values on a far flung event, a form of Colonialisation you may say ??

#830 David McKinney

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 11:27

Your last point might well be valid, Dan

However, I always thought (when I was more interested in such things) that the Macao F3 race was more than "just another F3 race"
You got contenders from a variety of championships, and often guys who had graduated to higher formulae risking their reputations to step back and race against the current crop

#831 D-Type

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 16:13

Originally posted by David Beard


You expect Marcus to write all the corrections? ;)

WB used to!

#832 bradbury west

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 23:33

I have dipped into this thread on and off for a while, but some points may have been covered.

In terms of getting copies onto shelves, I couldn't help noticing 5 copies of the current Octane magazine in the bookstall/newsagent at JFK Terminal 4 last weekend. No Motor Sport among the serried ranks of tyre-smoking Clarkson-esque comics there.

The issue of content will never please everyone. Motor Sport is like the VSCC and had to change its approach and customer base whilst not alienating its existing buyers/members etc. When the whole redtop thing started last year I had some very involved e mails with someone whom I regard as a person of consequence in Haymarket identifyin my concerns, not least about standard of grammar, syntax and general style, and he explained the policy about the revamp of the magazine clearly, and I was happy to go along with it. They are in the same boat as Lord March, having to appeal to new people, as much as satisfying old pedants. Good wood is as some people like to remember it, not as it was. We have a choice whether we pay Charles March's GRRC fees and ticket prices or not. So MS has also had to move on in what is now a very changed market.

A friend was asked by another rival mag to write a detailed article on his specialist subject but he pulled it when he was told to use smaller and less technical words etc. They pointed out they were in the "leisure industry". Perhaps that sums it up, in terms of the problems which face MS et al. There is also the problem of a perceived reducing attention span of many potential readers, many of whom have no detailed or deep knowledge of historic motor sport matters.

We all had to start somewhere, knowing nothing about it. MS are trying to be attractive to potential readers. I am amazed that with their invaluable promotion of VSCC matters and events they do not negotiate to repat some of the extremely knowldgeable artilces, by experts, which appear in thre VCSS quarterly magazine. I am convinced that these articles would appeal to a ver wide range of readers of all levels of knowledge, and the VSCC and their contributors would no doubt welcome the repeat fees.

One of the points I made to Mr Haymarket was that they should re re-run some of the old articles from C&SC written by DCN in the eighties since they involved interviews with the people who were there at the time, thirties, forties, fifties, sixties etc. The "Anno Domini" has cought up with many of them now so there is no one to tell it as it was. Additionally Doug's stuff was always correct.

Similarly they could utilise/repeat a lot of Jenks stuff on a selective basis, rather than the tokenism which exists at present with the patronising comment about Jenks at the end.

Bill Boddy ran a series of "Cars I have Known etc" or "Fragments on forgotten makes" for years which would bear repeating for a new readership. How else will people decide what they like or what they would like to know more about if they only get the usual potboiler stuff with inaccuracies.? Additionally, rewritten history runs the risk of being told as people may want it told, as TNFers are ready to point out, which is why Dr Lawrence's Chapman book was so good, and why a new biog of Len Terry is so needed, telling it as it was.

WB's stuff is edited by the excellent Gordon Cruickshank, whose talents are often under-estimated I feel.

In terms of a young Editor, I recall Simon Taylor was quite young when he took over Autosport, younger than Mick Walsh at C&SC or Tony Dron at Classic Cars, and I thought they did a good job. I fear that there is a risk of the "dog chasing motorbike" syndrome. Even if it catches it, the dog does not know what to do with it. The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. However, as an MS groupie since January 61 I will remain loyal.

For the benefit of our overseas colleagues, it may be apt to point out that one of the major Banks in the UK has a key advertising campaign of TV in which a frustrated existing customer is denied all the new or special deals which are "FOR NEW CUSTOMERS ONLY". Perhaps Stuart should watch more TV. The frustrated customer takes her business elsewhere.

The new Haymarket subscription policy is flawed beyond belief and would never be tolerated in a normal commercial environment, with new customers getting better deals than longterm, loyal contracted subscribers.

The real gem was C&SC earler in the year. I renewed for another TWO years, only to be offered a deal in the magazine for one year, three months later, which pro rata was £6 per year dearer, but I would have received a FREE holdall, which I would even have considerd buying, valued at ELEVEN and a HALF times that difference, £69. Do the calculation for yourselves for the negative payback period for my deal, ignoring any Discounted Cash Flow benefit to Haymarket for my second year. Are you reading this Stuart??

We all know that there is no financial logic to restoring/running/racing old sports cars. That appears to apply also to buying the relevant magazines.

However, if you have any valid criticisms of the magazine, e mail the Editor. He is not a mind reader.

Roger Lund.

#833 Gary C

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 14:01

ANOTHER new Editor !! I think I'll put in for it next time.... ..

#834 Macca

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 14:54

I wish you would..........



:



Paul M

#835 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 15:15

Originally posted by Gary C
ANOTHER new Editor !! I think I'll put in for it next time.... ..


What?

#836 Gary C

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 15:19

Yes indeed. After just nine months, current editor Damien Smith is off to 'Autosport', Marcus Simmons will be in charge from the January issue.

#837 Shockabuku

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 22:44

I'd just like to add my voice to those who are disappointed with the way current subscribers are given shoddy treatment by the Haymarket Subs dept.

My Motor Sport subscription renewal letter arrived in the post today, and coincidentally so did the December copy of the magazine.

In with the magazine was the leaflet offering a "50% off" discounted subscription. This offer is being widely promoted by Haymarket at the moment, and unsurprisingly this beats the "up to 34%" discount offered to current subscribers such as myself.

I realise the importance of encouraging new subscribers, and so I'm not too upset that they are offered a better deal. I'll just subscribe from scratch, and will get the better discount, no problem.

The cause of my disappointment is the wording of the letter that was sent to me by Chris Heyes, Subscriptions Manager. As well as thanking me for my loyalty, Mr Heyes assures me that I am "...a valued customer and I would like to introduce you to our very best subscription offer. This exclusive discount is only available to our loyal subscribers, ensuring you can continue to receive Motor Sport at the best price possible."

By suggesting that 34% is the best deal available, he / Haymarket is being sparing with the truth, and is not crediting me with much intelligence. Not a particularly nice way to thank me for my loyalty. :(

#838 Twin Window

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 22:57

Originally posted by Gary C

Yes indeed. After just nine months, current editor Damien Smith is off to 'Autosport', Marcus Simmons will be in charge from the January issue.

It's nothing more than a straightforward promotion for Damien, I think you'll find.

And hey; he did a great job IMHO.

#839 Rob29

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 09:20

Originally posted by Shockabuku
I'd just like to add my voice to those who are disappointed with the way current subscribers are given shoddy treatment by the Haymarket Subs dept.

My Motor Sport subscription renewal letter arrived in the post today, and coincidentally so did the December copy of the magazine.

In with the magazine was the leaflet offering a "50% off" discounted subscription. This offer is being widely promoted by Haymarket at the moment, and unsurprisingly this beats the "up to 34%" discount offered to current subscribers such as myself.

I realise the importance of encouraging new subscribers, and so I'm not too upset that they are offered a better deal. I'll just subscribe from scratch, and will get the better discount, no problem.

The cause of my disappointment is the wording of the letter that was sent to me by Chris Heyes, Subscriptions Manager. As well as thanking me for my loyalty, Mr Heyes assures me that I am "...a valued customer and I would like to introduce you to our very best subscription offer. This exclusive discount is only available to our loyal subscribers, ensuring you can continue to receive Motor Sport at the best price possible."

By suggesting that 34% is the best deal available, he / Haymarket is being sparing with the truth, and is not crediting me with much intelligence. Not a particularly nice way to thank me for my loyalty. :(

Don't unerstand this. Received my December issue yesterday,but have never seen a renewal letter-I pay by direct debit-£6.50 per quarter-less than half the cover price.

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#840 Darren Galpin

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 09:39

They must assume that you always want to renew. I also received a renewal letter - direct debit is £9.90 a quarter in it. I too was a tad put out to find a 50% discount in the magazine on a subscription, but to find only a 34% discount to an existing subscriber should you take out a two year subscription.

#841 ian senior

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 09:45

Originally posted by Twin Window
It's nothing more than a straightforward promotion for Damien, I think you'll find.

And hey; he did a great job IMHO.


Well, I suppose it's a promotion, if you consider moving from the civilised world of Motor Sport to the tabloid tat of Autosport to be an upward step.

Good luck to Damien, though. Agreed he was doing a good job.

#842 smarjoram

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 10:21

The last two issues have been a bit thin haven't they. I might return to leafing through it in a shop and only buying it if there's something really interesting in it. I used to do this a ended up buying every issue - so I decided to subscribe - not sure I'd buy some of the recent ones though.

#843 D-Type

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 14:39

Having seen the last three issues of Octane courtesy of Chaters treating my daughter as a valued customer (ie several birthday and Christmas presents) and the current Classic and Sports Car as holiday reading. I will not be cancelling my MS subscription yet.

Even if their writers apparently can't differentiate between Rene Thomas and Parry Thomas! :p

#844 smarjoram

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 14:54

Nice photography in octane though. Just a shame it comes with all that other stuff about watches and posh things.

#845 Alan Lewis

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 12:18

Yes, I had the Chater's Octane offer as well - was sent the last two issues free. Never seen it before at all, but wasn't impressed.

APL

#846 LittleChris

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Posted 20 November 2005 - 12:33

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
They must assume that you always want to renew. I also received a renewal letter - direct debit is £9.90 a quarter in it. I too was a tad put out to find a 50% discount in the magazine on a subscription, but to find only a 34% discount to an existing subscriber should you take out a two year subscription.


I'm in the same boat as Rob29 in that I've never had a renewal letter, however I pay £9.90 a quarter instead of £ 6.50. What is going on here !

#847 Ruairidh

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 15:50

Originally posted by smarjoram
The last two issues have been a bit thin haven't they.


Actually I've enjoyed the last couple - especially the James Hunt article (I never was a fan but thought the article to be insightful).

#848 johnwilliamdavies

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 19:58

I've also enjoyed the last two issues. Found Marcus Simmons' article on La Chatre particularly interesting, good luck to his editorship.

Also been sent the last four issues of Octane for free, it's alright, but I won't be subscribing.


Welsh Motor Sport History

#849 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 07:57

Mine hasn't arrived yet.

Any reason?

#850 Kpy

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 14:52

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
Mine hasn't arrived yet.

Any reason?


Mine neither. Usually here Monday morning, regular as clockwork. Maybe it's the social unrest here in France.
Tax bill arrived on time though.;)