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#851 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 18:45

Can't blame riots on my late delivery ):

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#852 Kpy

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 20:59

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
Can't blame riots on my late delivery ):

I wasn't thinking of riots - I don't think the magazine has to wend its way through the most deprived suburbs of Paris or Lyon - but we've had a train strike whick lasted a few hours today. Pretty sure there's no connection. :)

#853 Macca

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 15:22

I just noticed something in the November issue - in the 'you were there' feature are some pics said to be Watkins Glen 1967. Well, NGH in a 49 obviously is, but the other shots, of Black Jack in a BT20 or BT19 #5 (with James Garner) must be 1966.

Despite everything, I still look forward to each issue (perhaps because there is nothing comparable?); but for the next issue is listed a comparison of the Vanwall & Lancia D50. Don't quite see the point - except to illustrate progress between 1954-5 and 1957-8?


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#854 ian senior

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 15:54

Originally posted by Macca
I
Despite everything, I still look forward to each issue (perhaps because there is nothing comparable?); but for the next issue is listed a comparison of the Vanwall & Lancia D50. Don't quite see the point - except to illustrate progress between 1954-5 and 1957-8?


Paul M


Can't wait to see this - one was green, one was red, one was Italian, the other was English, etc.

Is it just me, or do they seem to be desperately scratching around for things to include these days? If there isn't sufficient material to produce a worthwhile magazine every month ( I think there is, but they don't always seem to find it), why not go bi-monthly? I'd rather have one magazine (and I don't mind paying a suitable price) which told me something new every couple of months, than a load of padding as we sometimes see at present.

#855 SEdward

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 16:52

There is an infinity of material to produce a damned good issue every month. All they have to do is look for it and find it.

I am fed up of the lists and the bests of this and that and the top tens and top one hundreds. I think that last month's article on Brands Hatch was a clear illustration. Instead of giving us a history of the circuit (to my knowledge there is no available publication that covers the history of Brands Hatch), we got a series of sound bites in writing that were quite vacuous and certainly offered nothing new.

My gripe remains the same. I want more depth. I want long articles that could be spread over several issues, focussing on a personality, a circuit, a car or an event. I am fed up of superficial sketches and recycled anecdotes.

Edward

#856 Macca

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 17:00

Originally posted by SEdward
There is an infinity of material to produce a damned good issue every month. All they have to do is look for it and find it.

I am fed up of the lists and the bests of this and that and the top tens and top one hundreds. I think that last month's article on Brands Hatch was a clear illustration. Instead of giving us a history of the circuit (to my knowledge there is no available publication that covers the history of Brands Hatch), we got a series of sound bites in writing that were quite vacuous and certainly offered nothing new.

My gripe remains the same. I want more depth. I want long articles that could be spread over several issues, focussing on a personality, a circuit, a car or an event. I am fed up of superficial sketches and recycled anecdotes.

Edward


Exactly - you've expressed what I feel.

When I found the issue with the Ferrari 'spazzaneve' for another thread, I was struck by how much more there was in that issue, and how much more in-depth it was.


Paul M

#857 Mallory Dan

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 15:28

Any comments on the latest one gents ? The pic of the Editor I'm afraid appalls me, also the letter complaining about NSR's 'un-PCness'.

#858 ensign14

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 15:47

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
The pic of the Editor I'm afraid appalls me...

I dunno, Spike's gotta do something now that Buffy's finished.

#859 bradbury west

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 15:47

I have not had time to look at length yet, but the Simon Taylor article looks good, no more than I would expect from ST though.

Overall I agree with Edward, etc above, about the nature of the content we would like to see.

I refer to my previous posting about the need for and availability, elsewhere plus their archives etc, of good material. It is unlikely that they will come up with anything radically new or original on major topics, done before etc, so why not use the experts? All the car comics seem to need to do track tests/lists etc. Why not just stick to proper articles?

The stuff on TNF about relatively obtuse topics should give them food for thought. Why not items on topics/history etc in Australia, NZ, USA, E Europe etc etc. ? Why not more old old car stuff. They cannot compete with the whizz-bang wheelspinning comics for readership, so why not go for strength in depth to attract new readers. ? Perhaps the staff of MS do not like/understand or know anything about pre-WW2 cars. Perhaps it is still a case of identifying their readership in terms of demographics and intellect.


On another related topic, I feel it is only right to note publicly that Stuart Forrest and his team have remedied my subscription complaints promptly and effectively, although I did not get a free holdall.............. and I still fail to understand their subscription methodology. I fear that there are a lot of old readers who may be abandoning the cause.

Roger Lund.

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#860 2F-001

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 15:57

Dan, I too though the pic was a touch overly-informal. With reference to another thread, don't you think that is, actually, condiderably worse than goatee?

#861 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 16:09

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
Any comments on the latest one gents ?

Thin ..... at least physically.

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
The pic of the Editor I'm afraid appalls me,

He makes Paul Fearnley look well-groomed (see my previous comments :rolleyes: )

I would also like to record that, prompted by the Delage article last month, I sent a letter to the editor regarding British Racing Blue - previously discussed here .....

Presumably this wasn't considered of interest to a wider readership?

#862 Marcus Simmons

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 17:09

Spike from 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', Billy Idol, Jacques Villeneuve, Sickboy from 'Trainspotting'… The list goes on and I've heard them all – it's all quite amusing really.

However, no-one has ever suggested that my hair colour or appearance has ever had any effect on my knowledge of motorsport or my ability to edit a magazine. Of course, you're free to offer opinions on those matters, but let those be based on what you read in MotorSport rather than on my appearance.

By the way Vitesse 2 – your letter did arrive and it was very interesting. Unfortunately our pre-Christmas schedules dictate that a fair amount of pages are prepared 'up front'. But we will be printing it within the next month or two.

All the best to all of you – I'm just off to groom my stubble now (if it works for David Richards why not me?!).

#863 Barry Boor

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 17:15

Well done, Marcus! Another head above the parapet. :clap:

#864 ensign14

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 17:31

Originally posted by Marcus Simmons
Spike from 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', Billy Idol, Jacques Villeneuve, Sickboy from 'Trainspotting'… The list goes on and I've heard them all – it's all quite amusing really.

So which was the inspiration? Maybe Sir John of Rotten? And are you going to publish the British Racing Blue letter under the name Vitesse2? That would rule.

#865 RTH

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 18:35

Is there a desperate shortage of razor blades in the Teddington area ?

#866 Barry Boor

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 18:58

I dunno, but Gary C will tell us.

#867 Gary C

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 19:04

there certainly is, sometimes !!!

#868 David Beard

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 19:20

Originally posted by Marcus Simmons
Spike from 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', Billy Idol, Jacques Villeneuve, Sickboy from 'Trainspotting'… The list goes on and I've heard them all – it's all quite amusing really.


I think you look a bit eccentric in the photo, Marcus, which is a Good Thing. Jenks was eccentric.



Just so long as you hate football, and don't have any tattoos.......

#869 Twin Window

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 19:31

Hasn't Marcus already had his interview and been given the job?!

#870 MCS

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 20:45

Originally posted by SEdward
There is an infinity of material to produce a damned good issue every month. All they have to do is look for it and find it.

I am fed up of the lists and the bests of this and that and the top tens and top one hundreds. I think that last month's article on Brands Hatch was a clear illustration. Instead of giving us a history of the circuit (to my knowledge there is no available publication that covers the history of Brands Hatch), we got a series of sound bites in writing that were quite vacuous and certainly offered nothing new.

My gripe remains the same. I want more depth. I want long articles that could be spread over several issues, focussing on a personality, a circuit, a car or an event. I am fed up of superficial sketches and recycled anecdotes.

Edward


Now one year on from cancelling my subscription.

I feel so much better.

I used to get SO angry with the lack-lustre content - often completely misleading (and sometimes wrong), the dreadful layout, the inane use of entire pages for close-up pictures of little more than driver's helmets, the woeful lack of imagination, the Top Gear-like fascination with bloody road cars and so on and so on. Every single month I would compose a letter of complaint, of admonishment, in my head - but I never sent one. It really could be so much better.

Good luck Marcus Simmons (whoever you are). I doubt you could do any worse.

#871 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 23:44

Originally posted by Marcus Simmons
By the way Vitesse 2 – your letter did arrive and it was very interesting. Unfortunately our pre-Christmas schedules dictate that a fair amount of pages are prepared 'up front'. But we will be printing it within the next month or two.

I look forward to that ... :)

Changing the subject - in the Tasman article, which I enjoyed overall: David McKay is rendered as David Mackay (he was a Spurs footballer!) and it's stated that the Brabham Graham Hill drove in 1964 was "loaned". As far as I'm aware he was driving directly for McKay's team Scuderia Veloce and was entered by them: perhaps Ray or some one could confirm that?

And was Timmy Mayer's crash really at Pub Corner at Longford?

#872 Twin Window

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 23:56

Originally posted by Vitesse2

David Mackay (he was a Spurs footballer!)

And Derby County, IIRC.

Maybe David B will know...?  ;)

#873 Gary C

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 01:52

.... .and Scotland captain !!

#874 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 05:05

Originally posted by Vitesse2
.....David McKay is rendered as David Mackay (he was a Spurs footballer!) and it's stated that the Brabham Graham Hill drove in 1964 was "loaned". As far as I'm aware he was driving directly for McKay's team Scuderia Veloce and was entered by them: perhaps Ray or some one could confirm that?

And was Timmy Mayer's crash really at Pub Corner at Longford?


Graham Hill drove for David McKay's Scuderia Veloce in both 1964 and 1965. In 1964 he drove the car McKay drove himself otherwise, in 1965 it was the car that was passed on to Spencer Martin after the series. Spencer spannered during the series.

Yeah, the crash was in the braking area for Longford Corner. That was the corner that had the pub on it, but it was known as 'Longford' and not 'Pub' corner.

Who wrote this stuff? I'm pretty miffed that they totally ignored the letter I sent them six or seven years ago on this subject anyway...

#875 ensign14

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 06:34

...and Birmingham City manager...he took us to places we'd never been before, such as Hartlepool and 14th in Division 3...

Not all his fault, we were being run by an asset-stripper who seemed to be trying to merge us with Walsall. As the junior partner.

#876 Gary Davies

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 06:54

Not my area of expertise so no messenger shooting please, but these people refer to Pub Corner, not Longford Corner.

#877 RTH

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 10:51

I understand Trinny and Suzannah are now planning to do the whole of their new series live from 60 Waldegrave Road.

#878 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 11:17

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Who wrote this stuff? I'm pretty miffed that they totally ignored the letter I sent them six or seven years ago on this subject anyway...

Gordon Cruickshank.

And that was several editors ago :lol:

In general it seems a well-researched article - although you and Bernd might find a few things that I missed - and avoids the usual traps for the unwary, including not calling it the Tasman Series pre-1964. No reference to Moss winning the AGP in 1956 though - you'd get the impression he hadn't been there before 1959.

#879 bradbury west

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 11:39

Looking at Bondurand's "Name this ZA special" thread, and the frighteningly speedy reply with the answers, it shows yet another very specialised subject for an in depth article for the boys at Motor Sport, possibly over two issues, and that is before they even start to look at Australia and New Zealand with the home grown talent and locally built single seaters, and the sports cars would lead on from that, then there is the cult of large engined small volume sports racers in the US of A, Echidnas etc, etc, not just Chaparrals, plus Mr Sadlers efforts et al in Canada. Over how many issues would a well researched and equally well written series of definitive articles on that lot cover? ( Perhaps only C&SC can do this sort of stuff?)

Then they could cover period saloon cars, (chance for a feature on the Morrari, hillclimbs and all) then they could discover that motor racing existed prior to the 1950s, with more specialist stuff.

Then they could look through key racing people, perhaps repeating many of the DCN articles from C&SC, plus Bod's interviews with people and his articles about smaller marques, like the VSCC do; it is not dull reading at all. It could be interspersed with their usual potboiler/stockingfiller stuff

They do not have to invent or devise anything. It has all been done. They only have to research and report it. I konow from my own work that this is not the workj of a few minutes, but that is the game they are in. They could have guest writers each month. Surely the rates are not that expensive?

At this rate the magazine may even start to get fuller, and possibly read by a wider readership. Forgive the cynicism, but what is their problem?

I know this smacks of desperation, but there are some of us who are so anxious for them to get the magazine right, almost even having to protect them from themselves. We are the ones who are unlikely to cancel the subs, unlike the passing trade, strawberry-season casual readers whom they are so anxious to attract. They should analyse just what Charles March has done, offering an attractive new broad-spectrum experience for first timers, yet providing an overall acceptable compromise for crusty old enthusiasts, who were there the first time round, and who, if they are honets, accept that there are precious few classes of historic racing where the cars race "as they were" in period.

By the way, Marcus Simmons comes with a good record, so give him a chance by helping him, not least by e mailing any comments, requests etc. the job does not come with a crystal ball.

Roger Lund

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#880 ian senior

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 11:53

I absolutely agree with what you say, Roger. There is no end of material out there, but perhaps that is a problem in itself - if you really want the in-depth stuff, the obscure, come to TNF (and if it isn't there, all you have to do is ask, because someone might know). If you just want a general read, some of which may be new to you, buy Motor Sport.

I can see that they want to try to attract new readers (and good luck to them in this endeavour) but I can't help feeling they think that too much of what you might call "serious stuff" could frighten off the new and less committed reader. The trick is to attract new readers without alienating existing ones, and I'm not sure they have pulled this one off yet.

#881 petefenelon

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 13:21

Originally posted by ian senior

I can see that they want to try to attract new readers (and good luck to them in this endeavour) but I can't help feeling they think that too much of what you might call "serious stuff" could frighten off the new and less committed reader. The trick is to attract new readers without alienating existing ones, and I'm not sure they have pulled this one off yet.


In the last 18 months I've stopped reading Autosport almost completely and Motor Sport other than the odd casual purchase for precisely the reason you imply - both titles have rapidly lost the depth and gravitas that made them important and have been overtaken, for me, by online sources. I've read both titles for over 30 years, in fact I virtually taught myself to read from Autosport and it's disconcerting to think that whereas it probably did a lot to boost my reading age circa 1973 it wouldn't do that for kids these days ;)

These days I can pretty much "mix and match" my own motor sporting reading by using a mix of free and subscription websites. TNF although occasionally infuriating has far more breadth and depth than any printed magazine on the historic side -- and following links from Atlas often leads to the most fascinating places often full of research and analysis and fine words and photos by TNF'ers. On the contemporary side, I can get far more news and analysis from t'internet (including autosport.com) than I've seen in Autosport since the late-80s.

Rather than finding the net superficial, I've found it's broadened and deepened my interest in and knowledge of contemporary and historic motorsport. I think the future is clear - print media will exist at the extremes of the market, as yellow tabloids with short sentences, and coffee-table exotic objects for collectors. Real information seems to be migrating to the internet, where it can be organised, published and managed by true enthusiasts.

#882 Darren Galpin

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 13:46

The added benefit of autosport.com is that they don't try and invent extra meanings for words such as "fever", which Autosport seems to believe can be an adjective, when according to the dictionary it is a noun or a verb.

#883 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 13:50

Originally posted by Vanwall
Not my area of expertise so no messenger shooting please, but these people refer to Pub Corner, not Longford Corner.


We won't shoot the messenger, but I've already noted that their enthusiasm has well and overtaken their ability to absorb and dispense real knowledge... for instance:

.....two rickety wooden bridges.....


Yes, the bridges were timber, but hardly 'rickety'! Solid structures that daily saw trucks of all sizes pass over them. And then:

.....a well patronised hostelry in the middle of the town.....


The pub was right on the edge of town... the 'middle of town' was half a mile away!

Though they have this stuff wrong, there are factual items on the site. I recognise that some of the information has come from my Closed Circuit article.

Originally posted by bradbury west
.....They could have guest writers each month. Surely the rates are not that expensive?


No, they aren't. But if they let their standard slide much further, they wouldn't be able to get anyone with a reputation to look after.

#884 ensign14

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 14:05

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
The added benefit of autosport.com is that they don't try and invent extra meanings for words such as "fever", which Autosport seems to believe can be an adjective, when according to the dictionary it is a noun or a verb.

:confused: It is certainly adjectival in the phrase "fever pitch".

#885 James Page

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 14:10

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
The added benefit of autosport.com is that they don't try and invent extra meanings for words such as "fever", which Autosport seems to believe can be an adjective, when according to the dictionary it is a noun or a verb.


I'm absolutely in agreement with you on this one. The other things I'd immediately strike off their style guide are the words 'mega' and 'gate' (as in Button-gate, Indy-Gate, Newey-gate and so on...) :mad:

#886 ian senior

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 14:14

Wasn't there a discussion on here some time ago about a possible new rival magazine to Motor Sport? Don't know if this ever went any further, but a bit of competition for the same market might gee up the Haymarket chaps a bit.

#887 bira

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 14:18

Originally posted by ensign14
:confused: It is certainly adjectival in the phrase "fever pitch".


According to OED, "fever pitch" is a noun, meaning "a state of extreme excitement."

Separating the words, though, "fever" is a noun only. "Fevered" or "feverish" are the adjective derivative. OED does not recognise "fever" as a verb either.

Anyway, my friends and colleagues at Haymarket will attest that I'm with Darren on this point. I hate faddish words and phrases immensely, and I moan and groan every time they use 'fever' or 'mega' around me :blush:

#888 ensign14

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 14:47

Originally posted by bira


According to OED, "fever pitch" is a noun, meaning "a state of extreme excitement."

Separating the words, though, "fever" is a noun only. "feverish" is its adjective derivative.

Surely "pitch" is the noun?

(I'd use "febrile" as the adjective...Classicist14)

#889 petefenelon

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 14:58

Originally posted by ian senior
Wasn't there a discussion on here some time ago about a possible new rival magazine to Motor Sport? Don't know if this ever went any further, but a bit of competition for the same market might gee up the Haymarket chaps a bit.


The conclusions, every time that comes up, always seem to be:

(1) pitching such a magazine correctly would be hard; it would have to appeal to those whose interest in history ranges from the turn of the 20th century to the turn of the 21st, and in racing all over the world.
(2) although there are any number of people willing to research write articles, nobody is willing to do the spade-work of producing a paper magazine!
(3) such a magazine would most likely be subscription only with almost no newsstand presence - maybe a few specialist retailers would stock it.
(4) such a magazine would be very expensive, relative to a 'commodity' title like Motor Sport.
(5) photo rights are probably the final nail in the coffin.


Yes, I'd pay a good amount of money for (say) a 96-128 page bimonthly mag full of interesting words and good pictures. I'm sure a few hundred more would. But is that sustainable? I doubt it :(

#890 ian senior

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 15:10

Originally posted by petefenelon




Yes, I'd pay a good amount of money for (say) a 96-128 page bimonthly mag full of interesting words and good pictures. I'm sure a few hundred more would. But is that sustainable? I doubt it :(


I'd support such a magazine, but I'm not sure if such a thing is as unviable as you may think. How much interest is there in a magazine such as The Automobile, which seems to survive quite nicely? I would guess that there are more people interested in motor sport than in old road cars from the dawn of motoring up until WW2, which is what it seems to cover. It's not heavy on the page count, but the content is of high quality.

#891 James Page

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 15:50

Originally posted by ian senior
Wasn't there a discussion on here some time ago about a possible new rival magazine to Motor Sport? Don't know if this ever went any further, but a bit of competition for the same market might gee up the Haymarket chaps a bit.


That would have been me. I work for Future Publishing, who are currently hoovering up a number of other publishing houses and magazines - including motoring titles. They are also actively encouraging new launch ideas within the company, and I pitched a historic racing mag to them - but to no avail.

#892 bira

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 16:22

Originally posted by ensign14
Surely "pitch" is the noun?


Yes, both fever and pitch are nouns, and they combine to create a third noun - "fever pitch". It's the same as "leather jacket", I suppose.

#893 ensign14

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 17:09

Now I would say that "leather" is adjectival there as well. I wouldn't say "fever pitch" was a third noun... :

#894 bira

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 17:27

Originally posted by ensign14
Now I would say that "leather" is adjectival there as well. I wouldn't say "fever pitch" was a third noun... :


Leather is most certainly not an adjective. It would be 'leathered jacket' in that case, like it would be 'fevered pitch' if you wanted it to be an adjective.

"Fever pitch" is a noun, according to OED. And another example, I guess, would be "gold rush" or "sales pitch".

#895 2F-001

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 17:34

Ah - but does "leather jacket" become wholly noun when referring to the insect?

#896 ensign14

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 17:53

Originally posted by bira


Leather is most certainly not an adjective. It would be 'leathered jacket' in that case, like it would be 'fevered pitch' if you wanted it to be an adjective.

Or would that be a jacket that had been covered in leather, rather than made out of it? A pre-existing tweed thing that a Fonz wannabe had dipped in liquefied cow and then frozen?

Like a "wicker basket", as opposed to a "woven basket" or an "empty basket".

#897 bira

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 17:56

Originally posted by ensign14
Or would that be a jacket that had been covered in leather, rather than made out of it? A pre-existing tweed thing that a Fonz wannabe had dipped in liquefied cow and then frozen?

Like a "wicker basket", as opposed to a "woven basket" or an "empty basket".


OK, let me ask you this: what do you think the pitch in fever pitch stands for? :D

#898 ensign14

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 18:22

Originally posted by bira


OK, let me ask you this: what do you think the pitch in fever pitch stands for? :D

The level of excitement. It's a bit of an akimbo word, though, in that you don't really hear it in that sense except with "fever" (in the same way as about the only things described as akimbo are arms and/or legs). Like "aback" or "lumpen" which are only ever used with words like "taken" or "proletariat".

I am now incredibly interested in the etymology of this to see whether it came from "feverish pitch" or was once hyphenated...and terribly confused about the noun in scare-crow...

#899 bradbury west

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 18:24

Ian, post 726

The Automobile is a good production, albeit to a very specialist market, with presumably a small circulation, (one less now that I did not renew - there are only so many comics I can get through) which seems to be the way MS is going, but without the other's attributes. The Automobile uses recognised quality authors/journos, usually both specialist in the topic covered and in their broad-church knowledge of the overall field in which they choose or have been asked to write. They also research the topics to ensure accuracy. The quality and originality of their photographs are a delight, as in the VSCC mag., being period, not shot last week at a new track or in someone's 'shop.

In the old days, no technology, held together by string and chewing gum etc, we had the individual and combined strengths of Jenks and the Bod, plus DCN and a phalanx of others who knew their stuff, and could write a good piece to boot.

The Automobile succeeds, as the revised VSCC is doing, in being something to somebody as the reader, with the magazine accepting its readership limitations, whilst always looking for a wider parc.

MS unfortunately IMHO tries to be all things to all people, seemingly failing miserably, falling between so many stools that even an agile octopus would struggle to secure a position in the scenario. The fact that these stools appear to be on a downward facing slope only serves to exacerbate the hoped-for balancing act.

I really do feel bad about writing like this, but it is not as if it is out of the blue for any of us with the comments which we have all made. I often try to imagine just what the editorial/management/strategic review process must be like at MS. Is there a strategy? I had a long discussion with a Haymarket high-up, as I have said before, at the time of the "red-top" thing, and I genuinely thought that there was a plan. I worry that it might be more Baldrick/Blackadder than A Team ( for those with a long memory).

Ignoring the emotional stuff, that MS is a national institution to those in the know, and that it was always the zenith in its field, as a simple businessman I wonder just what they are playing at. If it was successful and highly regarded, but loss-making , that is one position to defend. But to be almost ridiculed as well as abandoned by its readers, let alone its competitors I suspect, beggars belief. Perhaps they just accept that they are writing for the leisure industry, as the genre was described to a friend of mine by another similar magazine.

I worry that their readership is reducing still, and the viability of some of the offers seems suspect. Soon you are well into unsustainable diminishing returns, the final downward spiral

Sorry, I just worry about MS........................... some one has to, and it seems that that is our function.

It is also written in the hope that someone at MS & Haymarket reads it and heeds it. I am sure that we are not alone as readers with concerns.

Roger Lund.

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#900 David Beard

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 18:31

Originally posted by bradbury west
I had a long discussion with a Haymarket high-up, as I have said before, at the time of the "red-top" thing, and I genuinely thought that there was a plan.

Roger Lund.


Roger, would the other party agree it was a long discussion, or did you just talk at him?