Jump to content


Photo

'Motor Sport' magazine


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4174 replies to this topic

#901 2F-001

2F-001
  • Member

  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 16 December 2005 - 18:34

Ensign - if you can face the prospect of getting enmeshed in yet another web-community and its discussion board... you may be interested in www.wordorigins.org

Surely, in this context pitch is closely related to its use in musical or accoustic terminology... while in the big-selling book title 'fever pitch' it is a pun... My natural inclination would have been to hyphenate "fever-pitch" but OUP house rules (Authors' and Editors' Dictionary etc) don't specify, which usually means they don't consider it something we'd have trouble knowing... :)

Advertisement

#902 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 16 December 2005 - 23:06

DAB post 736

David, I cannot speak for the other party, but he was a very willing and lucid respondent.

I emailed him with four or five lines outlining my own concerns on a variety of fronts, basically asking what was happening, points which I agreed were passed to the Editorial staff, since I have no desire for secrecy or fifth-column tactics. I had three very long , detailed, lucid and reassuring replies, which is why I stayed out of this discussion for such a long time, over a year, I suspect since the "redtop" debate began, since that as an entity to me was not an issue. I was and am happy to let the magazine enjoy my continuing support. I am simply considering the future. Classic Cars has clearly been through some sort of re-vamp, and I was watching the MS scenario as an interested observer

The other party was happy to encourage me to put forward the publication's views on the matter, but by the time I raised my points initially, Stuart Forrest had already elected to identify himself and to reply for the organisation, which was not my job to do.

Similarly I had various conversations with Stuart when he rang me about the subscription issues, which are now resolved, in which he explained a range of issues at some length.

RL

#903 Macca

Macca
  • Member

  • 3,313 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 11 January 2006 - 13:11

Just got the new copy of the red-but-it-should-be-green 'un...............seems to have got a bit thinner

:confused:


Yes, 8 pages less than the last few......


Nice pic of James Garner at Monaco 1966 in the 'You Were There' spot..........but the pic next to it is captioned as a BRM P261 whereas it's actually NGH about to run the P83 H16 for the first time.


Paul M

#904 Keir

Keir
  • Member

  • 5,214 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 January 2006 - 14:31

Paul,
How was the Tasman article ??

#905 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,086 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 11 January 2006 - 16:17

Any trace of a give away video/dvd/cd??

#906 Macca

Macca
  • Member

  • 3,313 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 11 January 2006 - 16:40

Originally posted by Keir
Paul,
How was the Tasman article ??



Non-existent..........with no explanation..... :(

However, there are articles not mentioned in the previous preview, which I will leave you to find.............but no hint of a freebie


Paul M

#907 Maindrian Pace

Maindrian Pace
  • New Member

  • 21 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 11 January 2006 - 16:49

The Tasman story appeared in the January issue, written by Gordon Cruickshank

#908 Macca

Macca
  • Member

  • 3,313 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 11 January 2006 - 17:08

:blush: :blush: :blush: :blush:

I haven't actually finished reading the Jan, issue............


Paul M

#909 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,884 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 11 January 2006 - 18:36

There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left on the cover.
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left across pages 38,39.
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left across pages 40,41.
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left across pages 46,47.

This month's issue is the pictorial version of a stuck record :

#910 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,825 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 11 January 2006 - 18:58

Yes, I regret to say that those facts struck me too.

Still, there's an item about Lang, one about Brambilla and a feature on Vila Real - none of which I have yet read.

#911 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,884 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 11 January 2006 - 19:22

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Yes, I regret to say that those facts struck me too.

Still, there's an item about Lang, one about Brambilla and a feature on Vila Real - none of which I have yet read.


Yes, they look good. No cutaway drawing again this month, though (missing last month for the first time after a long run), which was usually my first port of call...someone at MS please note the enthusiasm shown for these wonders in the Cutaway Drawing thread.

#912 Macca

Macca
  • Member

  • 3,313 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 11 January 2006 - 19:39

Maybe they won't pay for the cutaways any more (see other thread) or maybe all the remaining designers picked cars that had already been 'done'........

(I did notice, looking back, that there was to have been something about a young Hakkinen in the Jan issue, which didn't appear)


Still, at least there are no lists in this issue!

:up:

Paul M

#913 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,825 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 11 January 2006 - 20:01

No, Macca, but there will be next time....

#914 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 56,905 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 11 January 2006 - 20:08

Perhaps a list of reader complaints ;)

#915 johnwilliamdavies

johnwilliamdavies
  • Member

  • 171 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 11 January 2006 - 22:19

Originally posted by David Beard
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left on the cover.
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left across pages 38,39.
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left across pages 40,41.
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left across pages 46,47.

This month's issue is the pictorial version of a stuck record :


You forgot to mention the double page spread across pages 36, 37 of an out out of focus white Jaguar and red Porsche, and an in focus Andy Wallace. That's going straight up on my wall.



------------
Welsh Motor Sport History

#916 David Birchall

David Birchall
  • Member

  • 2,998 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 11 January 2006 - 23:31

Sometime before Christmas, having seen the banner advertising a discounted subscription to MS I decided to give them another chance (I let my subscription lapse a couple of years ago after decades of readership). A week later (!) I got a response asking me to confirm which magazine I was interested in. I confirmed MS and waited. A few days later someone emailed and said the offer was only available to 'American' readers and asked where I lived. I confirmed Canada. I received another email telling me they had no further information on this offer and I should contact EW Distributing since they handle all of N.America. I gave up!! :|

#917 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 5,668 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 12 January 2006 - 06:17

Originally posted by Maindrian Pace
The Tasman story appeared in the January issue, written by Gordon Cruickshank

Tell Gordon that at Longford the cars went under the Viaduct and not over it. ): (photo caption of a car on one of the timber bridges is labled as being the Viaduct)

#918 Maldwyn

Maldwyn
  • Member

  • 1,486 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 12 January 2006 - 08:05

A minor point, but the mention of A1GP in an editorial about the passing of Keith Duckworth. Why?

#919 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,023 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 12 January 2006 - 13:02

Originally posted by Maldwyn
A minor point, but the mention of A1GP in an editorial about the passing of Keith Duckworth. Why?

I thought he said that A1GP cars sound like DFVs

Advertisement

#920 Maldwyn

Maldwyn
  • Member

  • 1,486 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 12 January 2006 - 16:08

Originally posted by D-Type
I thought he said that A1GP cars sound like DFVs

Yes, but then went on to say the TGP boys were there and they race the cars reknowned for the DFV. Mention of A1GP seemed rather superfluous and forced, but, as I say, a minor point.

#921 bill moffat

bill moffat
  • Member

  • 1,407 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 12 January 2006 - 18:00

Originally posted by Maldwyn
A minor point, but the mention of A1GP in an editorial about the passing of Keith Duckworth. Why?


I must admit, my feeling was that the Motor Sport article(s) on Keith Duckworth were pretty sincere and well-constructed.

A double page spread re-living Bill Boddy's trans-France battle between a BMW 3.0Si and a light plane (30 years ago) was of questionable interest to any Motor Sport reader (irrespective of their vintage).

Keen TNF'ers may notice that in a previous contribution I bought a copy of Motor Sport "out of curiosity" and promptly slagged it off. Here I am in 2006 spending £4.95 on a further even slimmer copy of the magazine and moaning again. A hopeless addiction to a wonderful sport...

#922 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 3,532 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 12 January 2006 - 18:04

Originally posted by David Beard
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left on the cover.
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left across pages 38,39.
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left across pages 40,41.
There's a photo of a white Jaguar with a red Porsche 962 following to the left across pages 46,47.

This month's issue is the pictorial version of a stuck record :


Sounds absolutely great, David. :down:

Originally posted by bill moffat


I must admit, my feeling was that the Motor Sport article(s) on Keith Duckworth were pretty sincere and well-constructed.

A double page spread re-living Bill Boddy's trans-France battle between a BMW 3.0Si and a light plane (30 years ago) was of questionable interest to any Motor Sport reader (irrespective of their vintage).

Keen TNF'ers may notice that in a previous contribution I bought a copy of Motor Sport "out of curiosity" and promptly slagged it off. Here I am in 2006 spending £4.95 on a further even slimmer copy of the magazine and moaning again. A hopeless addiction to a wonderful sport...


Bill - With all due respect, a hopeless addiction to a lost cause! Motor Sport is nothing more than a joke.

#923 bill moffat

bill moffat
  • Member

  • 1,407 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 12 January 2006 - 19:07

Originally posted by MCS


Bill - With all due respect, a hopeless addiction to a lost cause! Motor Sport is nothing more than a joke.


I know, it's a sad kind of blind loyalty to something that was an important part of one's youth (a time when cheese and onion crisp packets and Motor Sport were both green).

A similar subliminal psychological process ensures that, in my eyes, Helen Mirren and Joanna Lumley will always appear to be 25 and voluptuous...;)

#924 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 3,532 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 12 January 2006 - 19:18

Originally posted by bill moffat
A similar subliminal psychological process ensures that, in my eyes, Helen Mirren and Joanna Lumley will always appear to be 25 and voluptuous...;)


I know exactly what you mean. :up:

I was thinking about the "old" Motor Sport the other night.

I reckon if they started re-releasing facsimile editions of the fifties and sixties issues each month they could not only prevent the embarassment of publishing a new one, but almost certainly double their circulation!

I'd certainly buy the old ones - I sold most of mine years ago very regrettably...

#925 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,825 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 12 January 2006 - 19:24

What a good idea, MCS!

#926 SFV

SFV
  • New Member

  • 15 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 12 January 2006 - 19:37

Originally posted by MCS
I reckon if they started re-releasing facsimile editions of the fifties and sixties issues each month they could not only prevent the embarassment of publishing a new one, but almost certainly double their circulation!
[/B]


To a certain extent they are already doing that in a small way with the reprints of the old DSJ articles which I enoy. I for one was delighted to obtain the giveaway reprint of DSJ's account of the Stirling / Mille Miglia some months back, I soaked up every detail. You wouln't find me complaining in anyway if some more reprints of classic Motor Sport articles from the distant past appeared. I am after all a relative youngster ;)

So yes, good idea.

#927 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,884 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 13 January 2006 - 08:30

Originally posted by MCS


I'd certainly buy the old ones - I sold most of mine years ago very regrettably...


I've done the opposite. I have double and sometimes triple copies of some of the fifties editions.

#928 Mallory Dan

Mallory Dan
  • Member

  • 2,673 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 13 January 2006 - 13:50

I occasionally glanced at MS during the 70s/early 80s, and must say I never fancied it at all. There was not much detail I found on racing, lots of, to me, boring articles on Road cars and sundry old cars. At that time though, I thought AS and MN were both fantastic.

Current MS looks OK on brief glance, I've still not finished Rail Express, sundry Aircraft mags, though. Also thanks to Roger I've some real nostalgia to wade through !

#929 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,884 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 13 January 2006 - 13:53

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
There was not much detail


Dan, you must have completely missed anything by DSJ, then.

DSJ WAS Motor Sport.

#930 Mallory Dan

Mallory Dan
  • Member

  • 2,673 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 13 January 2006 - 14:07

David, agreed, what I meant was there wasn't much on F3/F5000/FAt, F2 even, never mind clubbies at Mallory, Oulton, Croft. Likewise staples of MN and AS, like rumoured FF2000 entries, Clubmans 'A' grids, lap times of Northern Libres, pics of Supersaloons, driver quotes from Prodsaloons, etc etc didn't appear to get too much coverage in MS...

#931 Andrew Kitson

Andrew Kitson
  • Member

  • 2,534 posts
  • Joined: July 03

Posted 13 January 2006 - 14:20

I see what you are saying Dan, but MS always was more of a mag for the International scene.
Autosport was absolutely brilliant in the 70s & 80s in national and club coverage.

#932 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 13 January 2006 - 14:49

Andrew/Dan

I remain convinced that it was what MS did NOT do in the "good old days" which made it so utterly special. Also there was little competition for it as a genre, at least in the UK.

Re Autosport in the 70s and 80s, IIRC that was when Simon Taylor was Editor, or later with Quentin Spurring , when ST had left an appropriate legacy and still had a key input, as he moved further up the proverbial Haymarket executive greasy pole.

Another problem for all publications is that there is almost too much motor sporting stuff to report, so it is difficult to pitch at any particular market, let alone accommodate a (potential) readership which hankers after accurate and quality articles on yesteryear, which for many newer/potential readers is not so long ago, which again produces another quandary, which era/eras. Clearly satisfying no one is the risk run by trying to please everyone. Perhaps that is why The automobile, circulation around 5,000, knows its place and pleases it readership.

I still feel that re-running major, quality or definitive articles from the archives, or from the VSCC, even revamped, would make MS more attractive.

RL

#933 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 3,532 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 13 January 2006 - 14:56

Originally posted by bradbury west
Re Autosport in the 70s and 80s, IIRC that was when Simon Taylor was Editor, or later with Quentin Spurring , when ST had left an appropriate legacy and still had a key input, as he moved further up the proverbial Haymarket executive greasy pole.


The best time was surely when Messrs Phillips and Witty were in charge.

#934 Paul Butler

Paul Butler
  • Member

  • 71 posts
  • Joined: December 05

Posted 14 January 2006 - 09:23

Another thing I noticed this month whilst idly flicking through the mag was , of course , how thin it was but also that the adverts seemed to be somewhat lacking. I wonder if this is a sign that people don't feel that the Motor Sport readership is one they wish to target?

#935 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,825 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 14 January 2006 - 09:50

Nice little ad for the Hayhoe - Holland Databook though.

#936 flat-16

flat-16
  • Member

  • 478 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 14 January 2006 - 12:56

This has probably been stated before in the discussion (if it has, forgive me for not re-reading all 20 pages!), but I have to suspect that MS has made a grave error by dropping all coverage that doesn’t pertain to historic articles / events.

Although I couldn’t care less for Bernie’s Circus, I used to enjoy Simon Taylor’s perspective on current F1, and it made a refreshing change from the other sources one could mention…

In dropping coverage of modern events, I can only suspect that MS has cut itself off at the roots, leaving itself without the “anchor” upon which it was based.

Even though, during the latter days when it covered the modern scene, it was only a few pages compared to the nostalgia, at least there was continuity with the past; an aspect that kept the magazine “in orbit” so-to-speak.

I guess a big part of why I miss the coverage pertaining to modern racing is that I’ve become cynical toward - and bored with - the “pushbutton era”, and the likes of Taylor often found analogies with the past to remind you that few phenomena are truly new.

It strikes me that coverage of modern racing has been struck off the pages of MS due to “business agendas” / clashes with other Haymarket pubs. Abandoning a formula that worked for so many decades has to be a risky gamble...

Reprinting classic articles is something that would appeal to me as I don't own any MS prior to the late '70s; however, recycling the past is not a renewable resource...

Justin

#937 David Lawson

David Lawson
  • Member

  • 868 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 14 January 2006 - 13:08

I enjoyed the variety of subjects in this months Motor Sport particularly Chris Amon's account of the race and social scene at the Fuji 200, the articles on Vittorio Brambilla and Hermann Lang and the racing career of Christabel Carlisle.

David

#938 SEdward

SEdward
  • Member

  • 834 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 14 January 2006 - 19:55

On page 24, the photo of Ronnie Peterson "winning '71 Brands F2", is, of course, a picture of Mike Beuttler in the same race.

Edward

#939 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 36,889 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 14 January 2006 - 22:14

Has anybody noticed the text box on page 65? The bit at the bottom? ;)

Advertisement

#940 Gary C

Gary C
  • Member

  • 4,525 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 15 January 2006 - 11:29

er......no??

#941 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 36,889 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 15 January 2006 - 12:27

"Was Lang European Champion?"

#942 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,825 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 15 January 2006 - 16:58

Oh no, Ens, don't get them started on that one....

#943 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,023 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 15 January 2006 - 21:22

It's OK Barry, it was byelined MS (Marcus Simmons) and it looked as if he had read 'the' thread.

As to the rest of this month's issue - I agree with David Beard, four almost identical full page photos is rather an extravagant use of paper. they should confiscate the photographer's motor drive and give a camera loaded with 120 film so he has to think about each of the dozen shots he can get on a roll.

Overall verdict: still better than Octane, Thoroughbred & Classic Car or Classic & Sports Car but not yet approaching the standard of the late lamented Historic Racing or Historic Race and Rally

#944 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 17 January 2006 - 14:18

Have a look at the "looks familiar" thread on page one.

#945 Keir

Keir
  • Member

  • 5,214 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 17 January 2006 - 14:55

We just got the January issue here in the USA !! Very well done !! Good Tasman article !!!

#946 Geza Sury

Geza Sury
  • Member

  • 936 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 17 January 2006 - 16:59

I wanted to renew my subscription via the Haymaket website, but when I selected destination, the following message came up: "Error - Unable to find any prices for this journal". What an earth have happened? :confused:

#947 Mallory Dan

Mallory Dan
  • Member

  • 2,673 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 17 January 2006 - 17:30

Not especially relevant to TNFers, but I was surprised to see Pedro de la Rosa described as a 'Spanish veteran'. Is he really that old ?

#948 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 17 January 2006 - 17:57

Originally posted by Geza Sury
I wanted to renew my subscription via the Haymaket website, but when I selected destination, the following message came up: "Error - Unable to find any prices for this journal". What an earth have happened? :confused:


Hmmm. And it's cheaper to order Autosport (should one feel the need to) on a six-month sub than on a one-year one, which is odd.

They quote prices for Autosport, F1 Racing, and MN, but not C&SC and Motor Sport. I've tried various other mags and they all have prices.

Now I know one should never attribute to malice what could be attributed to cockup, but does this give anyone else the feeling that there's going to be a single Haymarket "Old geezer's car monthly" in a few months combining the two titles?

#949 Stuart_Forrest

Stuart_Forrest
  • Member

  • 92 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 17 January 2006 - 19:52

Originally posted by petefenelon

Now I know one should never attribute to malice what could be attributed to cockup, but does this give anyone else the feeling that there's going to be a single Haymarket "Old geezer's car monthly" in a few months combining the two titles?


If it does, it shouldn't. More than likely a temporary glitch comitted by one of our web people, and doubtless easily corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.

#950 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 17 January 2006 - 20:06

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest


If it does, it shouldn't. More than likely a temporary glitch comitted by one of our web people, and doubtless easily corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.


Good! - ta.