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'Motor Sport' magazine


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#1251 petefenelon

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 13:38

Originally posted by smarjoram
Very pleased with the return to green - proud to have it sitting on the coffee table again. The new layout is good too and I really like the arty photography. As someone who takes 'arty' photos myself I'd be interested to hear what it is you don't like about them? Surely a beautiful car deserves a beautiful photo to hilight it's details and shape etc?


I actually like the studio shots - I think they do bring out the beauty of the cars. As long as you've got some good action and/or paddock shots as well, the studio shots are worth having. Then again, I like shots of machinery from obscure angles, I think there's a lot of latent beauty hidden in technology. Both MS and Octane have done well with such shoots in the past, and while I'd hate to see them replacing 'real history' I'm quite happy to see hem supplementing it.

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#1252 KJJ

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 13:56

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Very pleased the green is back and back to a decent amount of pages. Also happy that gems such as the 'parting shot' remain. The photo of Jack Sears and Roger Penske in the '63 Goodwood TT is fantastic ( p.118/119). I visited Jack yesterday morning and pointed it out to him. He was delighted to see it and had never seen that photograph before.


Yes, that is a tremendous picture and with access to the LAT archive the magazine could be full of great photography like that. I'm afraid the studio style shots do nothing for me.

#1253 roger ellis

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 15:29

I am surprised no-one has yet spoken up for Vintage Racecar Journal.

This is an excellent American magazine & VRJ's European editor is respected author Ed McDonough - a TNF contributor - and at least two TNF members are regular advertisers.

I first found the magazine in a local shop over 2 years ago but when regular supply started to become difficult, and realising I did not want to miss further issues, I contacted Ed to arrange a subscription.

I understand Ed has agreed to offer 12 months subscription to UK based TNF members for only £20.00 and I can only suggest to you all to take advantage of this offer - you will not be disappointed.

Ed's e-mail address is - edmcd@btopenworld.com

roger ellis

#1254 David Beard

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 18:08

Originally posted by roger ellis
I am surprised no-one has yet spoken up for Vintage Racecar Journal.

roger ellis



It has been mentioned.

The last two issues contained exactly the same Mike Lawrence article :rolleyes:

#1255 Rob Ryder

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 18:36

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
.....
What we dont need are endless reports on historic racing, concours d'elegances, modern road cars (the all new Punto!!!), price givings to those with the widest smile etc....

Go back to the 1970s and this is what MS was all about! Reports on Historic race meetings, reports on current racing (5 weeks out of date :eek: ), reports/road tests on modern road cars.. and a little on the 'history of our sport'.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Rob

Pass me the rose tinted glasses... I still loved it back then.

#1256 Twin Window

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 19:07

Originally posted by David Beard

The last two issues contained exactly the same Mike Lawrence article :rolleyes:

No way!

How village is that...?!

#1257 Mark A

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 19:43

Originally posted by smarjoram
Very pleased with the return to green - proud to have it sitting on the coffee table again. The new layout is good too and I really like the arty photography. As someone who takes 'arty' photos myself I'd be interested to hear what it is you don't like about them? Surely a beautiful car deserves a beautiful photo to hilight it's details and shape etc?


For me the issue is that I buy Motorsport to look at the history of motorsport and some of the current event results, same reason I login here everyday. Yes studio shots can look good but I'd rather see a picture of the car in action from it's heyday. On this particular issue and car I personally thought it reflected really badly on the magazine that one of the pictures appears on the back page advert for an auction, is IMHO a really bad way of starting off a relaunched magazine.


Originally posted by smarjoram
On the down side - very few (maybe only 1) articles had more than a page and a half of text - with most having an average of 1 page. Could do with a few slightly longer ones I think - otherwise it starts to be a bit like an in-flight magazine. The lifestyle articles add to that feeling too - hope they don't do too many of those (if we're concerned about the magazine costing nearly £5 we're hardly likely to be shelling out £2400 for a watch are we?).


I've no issue with the cover price, but the increase in subscription, without prior notice for some, could have been handled better, especially as the cover price is unchanged.

#1258 Sharman

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 21:07

I keep hoping to find something new by DSJ

#1259 smarjoram

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 08:52

I didn't mean I preferred 'arty' shots to period shots of the car in action. Just that if they do take new photos it's better that they're arty than the usual stuff you see in all the other magazines.

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#1260 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 10:45

Originally posted by Rob Ryder

Go back to the 1970s and this is what MS was all about! Reports on Historic race meetings, reports on current racing (5 weeks out of date :eek: ), reports/road tests on modern road cars.. and a little on the 'history of our sport'.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Rob

Pass me the rose tinted glasses... I still loved it back then.


MS from the seventies is not my cup of tea. I really like MS from the 90ties onwards (with a free gift video, a DVD will suit fine too ;) )

#1261 Cargo

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 19:42

Got my copy of the Greentop just yesterday. Generally very impressed with the content - though there was less reading than I expected (the fancy paper is very thick = fewer pages than I thought). Handling it, it feels more like a fancy brochure than a mag. Only serious complaint is the price - it is too high. :( Even the subscription price isn't cheap.

But well done everyone - I'll certainly get the next few issues :) :) .

#1262 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 20:54

Nobody has yet made any comment on the issues I raised about that Longford 'track test'...

#1263 kevthedrummer

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 13:08

I always buy Motor Sport off the shelf, to ensure I receive it in the same number of pieces it left the printers, but it seems to be getting more difficult to locate round my way. A trip to purchase a copy will soon involve binoculars, a compass and a biscuit ration. At least it's easier to find on the shelves now it's back to green. I agree with the comments about the length of the articles. I find myself just getting interested and then the article's finished.

#1264 simon drabble

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 13:18

I really like the new format - good to have some current historic racing and the fact that I havent finished reading it is very refreshing after the recent issues which have been nothing short of dire!

#1265 Stephen W

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 14:07

Well as I was in WH Smith's getting Motorsport News and Autosport I went ahead and bought the new all green Motor Sport.

I must admit I thought the new improved material for the cover was a hit!;)

I didn't like the idea of breaking up the ads at the back with articles. :eek:

I can take or leave the arty farty shots however I was disappointed in the lack of detail in one on page 58. :mad:

Must admit I will probably NOT read the Andrew Frankel Matters of Moment page as the Bugatti Veyron is a tad out of my league. :confused:

Finally I am a bit puzzled at the choice of pale green for some of the text. It should be BRG like the cover! :rolleyes:

Must admit I am tempted to renew my subscription BUT will wait for the second ALL GREEN issue to make up my mind.

:wave:

#1266 ianbeckett21

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 19:37

I have to admit to being underwhelmed when the magazine arrived yesterday.As usual the spine split when it landed on the floor and one corner was bent (always the same one! perhaps it's the postmans fault!!). The presentation was a little crisper but when you analyse it, there was little difference in the number of articles or the depth of them. If this was the new beginning then what will it be like in a few months? I can honestly say the Bugatti article leaves me cold and I still wish that Bill Boddy's section was done away with(perhaps a perfect example of what is wrong with the publication,it is trying to be all things to all men!) I also get the sense that there is too much white which give the impression that a thin article is being padded out.Perhaps it says a great deal that so many of us appear to care about the magazines well being but I personally am not sure if I can justify £5 a month for so little reward. I have been reading the magazine since I was about 8 and maybe the problem is that after all these years there is not really enough new material to stimulate me? I suspect that a couple more issues and I will have to make the decision as to whether I continue my subscription or not .Ian Beckett.

#1267 Geza Sury

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 12:43

My copy of Motor Sport has arrived this morning. I took a quick look and what can I say? A disaster! Apart from the new cover, which looks stunning, tham magazine is a big disappointment. The articles are way too short because a) the margins are too wide b) the gaps between the rows are too big. My favourite part, 'Roebuck's Legends' is half as long as it used to be. This is also true for the book review and several other sections as well. And the content? I subscribe Motor Sport because I'm interested in learning more about the history of motor racing and not read about historic 'racing' icluding the forthcoming events. Why don't they ask their readers before making such a big change of direction? There are only a few articles in this month's issue which interest me, so if things stay like that, I certainly would not renew my subscription. For £5 per issue it's just a waste of money.

#1268 ian senior

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 13:03

Originally posted by simon drabble
I really like the new format - good to have some current historic racing and the fact that I havent finished reading it is very refreshing after the recent issues which have been nothing short of dire!


On the current historic coverage, was it really what you guys want? Race reports were minimal, plenty of nice pictures but not much else, lists of forthcoming events seemed OK. Is that kind of thing actually of any use to you, do you want more or less of it, and is the current day stuff best reported elsewhere?

I'm just a bit curious because, as a recent poster suggested, there is a danger of MS trying to become all things to all men - and no-one will be happy. And although it's nice to have Bill Boddy around for old time's sake, isn't his kind of stuff more for the pages of The Automobile (which can spend much more time and detail on it)?

#1269 Hieronymus

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 13:18

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos


MS from the seventies is not my cup of tea. I really like MS from the 90ties onwards (with a free gift video, a DVD will suit fine too ;) )


Ditto!!

Rather pathetic is a better description for those years, bar Jenkinson's contributions. He had a rather soft spot for my country and sometimes made some fine comments in this regard.

Much better now.

#1270 Mallory Dan

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 13:25

Interested to see a Weller reference in the mag.

As ever I find MAWP a good read, give him much more if you ask me, how about him taking the 4-5 pages usually given over to Boddy?? He must have so much of interest to us in his brain, given his superb memories and contacts he's made on the British National scene over the past 30 years +. I liked his brief bit on Bernard de Dryver, brought back some great memories of that day, when it looked, to me at least, as though Aurora was going to take over the world !!!

#1271 bradbury west

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 14:41

Originally posted by ian senior


On the current historic coverage, was it really what you guys want? Race reports were minimal, plenty of nice pictures but not much else,

I'm just a bit curious because, as a recent poster suggested, there is a danger of MS trying to become all things to all men - and no-one will be happy.

And although it's nice to have Bill Boddy around for old time's sake, isn't his kind of stuff more for the pages of The Automobile (which can spend much more time and detail on it)?


Ian, I am with you on most of this.
The length of the so called articles is pitiful, qv Simon Taylor with hardly more than 1000 words, I'll wager. For someone as contentious as Mosely to warrant less than at least 3/4000 words is an insult to him, and to us.

Roebuck should be assuming the new Jenks role, as a fully paid up member of the awkward squad, perhaps extending what Simon used to do vis a vis the current F1 scene.

The Formula Junior article was disappointing, shall we say, since like the rest it seems to be plumbing new depths of shallowness in content, but the writer gets to drive the cars..................but there are more than enough old, period, track tests of the cars by JVB, Paddy McNally, Simon Taylor, MAWP etc etc in their archives to check against, and perhaps crib from.

Interestingly, Sir Stirling recently noted that todays old racing cars, 250Fetc , are not as they were in his day so assessing them has little value.

I know journos are reputedly not paid a lot, so repeat fees for, or rewrites of, original in depth articles by DCN, M Lawrence, Setright etc cannot be too much of a burden. There are also Ray Bell and David McKinney, inter alia, with matchless info from period, and that is before we look to the US of A, Scalzo etc etc. I suspect that it is the "not invented here" syndrome, but you can be sure the readers would like it, and might even buy another copy.

There is so much which Jenks wrote, in period and with total accuracy, that warrants repeating for old stagers, nostalgia being a thing of the past, as well as for new readers who will never discover they are interested in certain cars/eras if the info is not put before them in a knowledgeable way.

I think that if Bill Boddy thought he was being kept on "for old times' sake" he would be mortified, and it is an injustice to suggest that, IMHO. Moreover, Motor Sport must, I suspect, dream of having such a high percentage of really knowledgeable readers to number of sales that the Automobile enjoys or that the VSCC magazine has, but perhaps they are aiming at lower standards, sorry, broader church, of buyer, but at £5 a time or £11.85 per quarter you need a good reason to do so.

With regard to the very old stuff, pre 1920/30 etc, it never ceases to amaze me how much interest and information about that period emerges on TNF, to much acclaim. Motor Sport always covered those periods, look at the old copies. Just because something was in an era/decade which you do not like or know about is no reason to write those periods out of history, otherwise motor racing will only start in 1963, as the poet Larkin said about sex.


Roger Lund.

#1272 bradbury west

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 14:46

Just seen this on a current TNF thread about the Maserati Birdcage. QED, I think.

"If you want a very resonable read on the Birdcage, Willem Oosthoek has an 8 page feature coming out in the Next edition of Vintage Motorsport magazine. I am sure you will enjoy it. He just did a great story on a Jaguar called the rivet car. "

RL

#1273 Gary C

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 19:39

Proof! This was in Tesco's last week!

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#1274 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 20:23

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Nobody has yet made any comment on the issues I raised about that Longford 'track test'...


And still none...

Don't any of you keep the magazine these days? Is anyone prepared to go over this article critically?

#1275 MCS

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 20:39

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
As ever I find MAWP a good read, give him much more if you ask me, how about him taking the 4-5 pages usually given over to Boddy?? He must have so much of interest to us in his brain, given his superb memories and contacts he's made on the British National scene over the past 30 years +. I liked his brief bit on Bernard de Dryver, brought back some great memories of that day, when it looked, to me at least, as though Aurora was going to take over the world !!!


In which case "Great Bores of the Last Thirty Years"

Fantastic. What could possibly be better?


.

#1276 philippe charuest

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 20:52

Originally posted by Ray Bell


And still none...

Don't any of you keep the magazine these days? Is anyone prepared to go over this article critically?

its just that theres not many "tasmanian" here :) . a general critic about those old track articles is that they should always come with a good map, seem obvious but many time there wasnt any in the past

#1277 KJJ

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 21:01

Yes, why not start a thread on this Longford issue. Perhaps those who are qualified to express an opinion don't even bother to look in on this Motor Sport moans thread. I know nothing at all about Longford but I'd enjoy reading some strongly expressed opinions from those who do.

#1278 Keir

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 21:07

Does anyone have the contact info on the photog that submitted the pics of Watkins Glen in the May issue ??

I'd love to have the Amon "dirtylook" pic !!!

I'm sure Chris himself will get a kick out of it !!!

#1279 Sharman

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:33

:mad:
Usual question, it is now 26 May, I know the publisher has changed but are any other overseas subscribers waiting for delivery of June's issue?
JSF

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#1280 Kpy

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:35

Originally posted by Sharman
:mad:
Usual question, it is now 26 May, I know the publisher has changed but are any other overseas subscribers waiting for delivery of June's issue?
JSF

Yes, this :mad: one!!
Time was when Motor Sport cleaned up its act and my copy arrived in France the day before it hit the news-stands in UK. The current situation is unacceptable.
They charge extra for our subscription, but, quite frankly my dears, I don't think they give a damn.

#1281 Sharman

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 12:20

I made very much the same comment as you a few months ago save that I said they've got the money and don't give a damn. It is absolutely no wonder that they have apparently been losing money. My one time boss Colin Marshall always said "give me a genuine complaint that I can handle to the clients satisfaction and I have a customer for life". Haymarket obviously could not solve something as simple as a large Christmas Card list, just imagine what it would have been like if Hazeltine had made it into Downing St!!

#1282 Geza Sury

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 17:25

I more or less finished the new 'green look' Motor Sport magazine. I didn't took long, though. For example I think I read the 'Big Jackie Stewart' interview in ten minutes! I imagine for a native speaker it took even less. Any did we learn anything new from it? If yes, very little. I believe the best feature in this month's issue was the story of Andretti's exploits at Le Mans, bu this, again was too short.

BTW, am I the only one who thinks the 'new' Motor Sport resembles a sales catalogue rather then a genunie motor racing magazine?

#1283 ensign14

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 06:38

Congratulations on the international distribution - saw a copy of the green issue on sale at Doha Airport...stood out in its "BR"G...

#1284 Barry Boor

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:28

Motor Sport must be more popular than I believed it was. Just returning home from holiday I find a letter to tell me that the April issue that I missed due to a cock-up between my new bank and their subscription department is totally sold out and I cannot obtain a copy.

I find this just a tad unlikely....

Also, I have just received another March issue in a plain brown envelope - I'm not sure from whence it came.

#1285 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 22:03

Originally posted by Kpy

Time was when Motor Sport cleaned up its act and my copy arrived in France the day before it hit the news-stands in UK. The current situation is unacceptable.
They charge extra for our subscription, but, quite frankly my dears, I don't think they give a damn.


I receive my copy in Holland about 10 days after all BRG boys have received it and explained in detail the contents in this thread. We live in 2006 right?

#1286 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 01:29

I haven't received mine as of today. What about other US subscribers? Has anyone contacted EWA to see if there is a distribution problem with the new publisher?

Thanks.

Jack

#1287 Antoine Pilette

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 02:49

Forget EWA... I kept getting MS late or not at all last year.
Now, I receive a C&SC issue every two months or something... I don't really care as this subscription was a gift but it sure did pushed me not to renew my MS one!
What else which bothers me with those magazines is always getting them late or finding them a month old at the newsagent for the quizzes and agendas...

#1288 green-blood

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 15:01

The webpage has been updated a good bit.

Ok so it sa bit thin, but an improvement for sub details, current issue and I like the short "history" snipits per year

http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk

#1289 bradbury west

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 15:21

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bradbury west
[B]

" For someone as contentious as Mosely to warrant less than at least 3/4000 words" Quote

I reckon the Publisher will make me eat my words by printing parts 2 and 3 of Simon's lunch interview with Max in the next issue or two.

BTW, with Max's views on facsimiles and Simon owning the Stovebolt, imafine the potential scene with a race series for , say, 20 Stovebolt replicas, all with 393bhp a la Taylor-mobile. First race at Oulton Park please

RL

#1290 Cirrus

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 18:50

Thanks to my tenuous involvement with the "Gentleman Drivers GT and Sports Endurance Masters" series, Ive picked up a couple of copies of "Vintage Racecar". It's an American magazine, but with a very European slant. The articles are a lot more "wordy" than MotorSport, and therefore more appealing to a mature and educated readership. Vintage Racecar doesn't challenge MotorSport, it complements it.

If you get access to a copy, have a look - it's very good indeed.....

#1291 Roger Clark

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 19:08

Originally posted by Cirrus
Thanks to my tenuous involvement with the "Gentleman Drivers GT and Sports Endurance Masters" series, Ive picked up a couple of copies of "Vintage Racecar". It's an American magazine, but with a very European slant. The articles are a lot more "wordy" than MotorSport, and therefore more appealing to a mature and educated readership. Vintage Racecar doesn't challenge MotorSport, it complements it.

If you get access to a copy, have a look - it's very good indeed.....

I agree. I've been a subscriber since Stoneleigh and I rate it far higher than MotorSport.

#1292 h4887

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 19:17

Originally posted by Cirrus
Thanks to my tenuous involvement with the "Gentleman Drivers GT and Sports Endurance Masters" ..


Not too tenuous to get fastest lap in class at Brands, I see...

#1293 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 23:19

Originally posted by Antoine Pilette
Forget EWA... I kept getting MS late or not at all last year.
Now, I receive a C&SC issue every two months or something... I don't really care as this subscription was a gift but it sure did pushed me not to renew my MS one!
What else which bothers me with those magazines is always getting them late or finding them a month old at the newsagent for the quizzes and agendas...


According to their web site EWA mailed the June issue yesterday!

Jack

#1294 Antoine Pilette

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 00:02

I suspect the mail office... I haven't seen an issue of Popular Science for the kids in the mailbox for awhile and... the latest issue of C&SC was two months ago.. I had complety forgotten those ones!

#1295 David Beard

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 19:39

Blimey, hold on a minute. The July issue has arrived, and I’ve still got something to say about the June Issue.

I don’t really agree with criticisms here that the photography in the latest MS incarnation is too arty-farty. However the arty-fart blodge on page 45 caused me to miss the “technical” piece on the Jaguar XJR-9.

The writer talks of torsional stiffness in units of lb/ft per degree! The Imperial unit of torque when I went to skool was a lb.ft, or more correctly a lbf.ft. And the scribings on my torque wrench agree…

Mind you…I seem to recall that even DCN talks of torque improperly like this, in his BRM book 2...

But on to the latest issue. On page 31 is a piece by Mark Blundell. I quote. “We’ve been there, done that, seen the film. There are holes that we have fallen into”.

Blundell can’t really be the author. I’ve seen and heard him on TV. He would have said.”There are holes what we have fallen into”.

#1296 Alan Cox

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 19:56

Indeed, the July issue landed on the doormat this morning. Is it a record? No it's a .....

First article read was the Nick Mason piece, wherein he discloses that the V16 BRM has been sold. Anyone know to whom? Also, I spy a Bugatti Type 59 in a state of undress/construction at the rear of the garage. Presumably a BC number?.......

Still doesn't hold me in the state of anticipation that I used to remember when opening a new issue in days gone by. But I accept that is probably me.

#1297 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 20:52

David, I don't think there is any other way to properly describe torsional resistance other than as lbs ft per degree...

Or have I missed some finer point here?

#1298 Barry Boor

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 21:00

David, you have obviously not listened too carefully to Mr. Blundell's use of English! :lol:

#1299 David Beard

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 21:06

Originally posted by Ray Bell
David, I don't think there is any other way to properly describe torsional resistance other than as lbs ft per degree...

Or have I missed some finer point here?


Yes ;)

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#1300 Sharman

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 21:08

Precisely the point, it is not lbs per foot per degree it is lbs.ft per degree