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'Motor Sport' magazine


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#1601 Catalina Park

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 12:39

The second Green issue is on sale in Australia. :cool: And it shall remain on sale. :p

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#1602 ianbeckett21

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 14:59

Hi again! A couple of recent contributors have suggested we are simply a bunch of miserable old farts with nothing better to do.I look at it rather differently in that if I were responsible for acquiring a magazine which has lasted as long as Motor Sport has and was now seeing so many of my customers making genuine and valid complaints I would be kicking some backsides to put things right.It surely is not difficult to produce a magazine once a month in what are not huge volumes and distribute them at the correct time.I also believe that those of us who have taken the trouble to subscribe and paid our money up front should be the first people to be sent the magazine.After all we are giving them the wherewithal to have journalists write articles for future magazines rather than those who browse the newsagents, often treating the shelves like a lending library before deciding whether to purchase or not on a whim! I have to say that I am slowly being won around by the magazines new approach but will still consider resubscribing or not depending on the effeciency of the service they offer over the next few months.

#1603 James Page

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 15:16

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Full marks however to 'Autosport' for their revival coverage with Bloxham photography.


I'll second that - good report by Marcus Pye (as you'd expect), plus nice pics of Bell and (later in the mag) Gounon sliding out of the chicane. Great stuff.

#1604 Bill Becketts

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 18:57

Originally posted by Catalina Park
The second Green issue is on sale in Australia. :cool: And it shall remain on sale. :p


So......There's only ONE Motorsport Issue available in Oz. each month eh? Well I hope you don't crease the thing :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#1605 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 19:20

Perhaps you lot should launch the Journal of Motorsport History - rather than a glossy magazine, basis it on academic journals, and focus on publishing 'original' research. Instead of a editor with a pot of money to commission a given story, unsolicited work is sent in then peer reviewed to find all the worthy ones.

It would all end up like a more formal version of this place, and would allow you all to get your fix of stuff you're never going to get in a mainstream photo-heavy magazine.

#1606 Bob Riebe

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 19:24

I just recently finally subscribed to Motorsport magazine.
I have not received my first issue yet but I just saw in a book store the issue that supposely covers the Can-Am.

I subscribed because of issues I have picked up over the past ten years, including some red issues, made it finally seem worth while.
WELL
I do not know who did the Can-Am issue, but he is either a dork or simply a complete moron.
The pictures, half of which one needes a damn maginifying glass to look at, are a pathetic joke; the rest are the same, same-old, same-old I could out do by digging out old magazines I have from that era.

If Motorsport does not drastically improve I will cancel quickly, as I thought I was getting a first rate publication, not a half-arsed joke.

I only scanned a few posts in this thread so what you read here, is based on my opinion and my opinion only.
Bob

#1607 p6owner

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 21:32

At the risk of adding some repetition, and of sounding rather like Victor Meldrew (though I'm sure that somewhere through the ether I can hear Jenks saying "I don't belieeeeve it"), what was the best motor sport magazine in the world has turned into a load of old crap. My collection of Motor Sports (not a full set but I've more than 50%) goes back to July 1949. It's what I always turn to as a starting point for looking anything up or just for a browse (looking for a particular result can take a couple of hours if I end up skimming through a couple of hears reports!). When they turned to the historic side of the sport (and not before time as they hadn't been keeping up with Autosport for over a decade), I really enjoyed many of the articles (though Frankel wasn't my favourite writer by a long way). I have finally cancelled my subscription because the most recent issues have had nothing in them. There are a few historic race reports (interesting up to a point but only so far), 'chats' (certainly nothing controversial) with middle aged ex-F1 drivers, a track test of something from the sixties and MAYBE a couple of articles of a historical nature - but so short and lacking in detail (Ford at Le Mans in 1 1/2 pages etc.etc.) that frankly I could have written it myself (especially if Mrs p6owner would lt me bring my collection into the house....) Where are the biographical articles about the drivers (especially the ones who don't quite justify a book of their own, or the articles about teams and team managers - even the ones who never managed to do anything much (Classic and Sports Car did a brilliant article some years ago about Peter Connew - which I would have thought is just the sort of thging that the people who post here would want. I suspect that there are more people complaining than are actually buying it......

#1608 petefenelon

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 14:34

Once again, not a bad enough issue to prompt the end of my subscription or a good enough one to make me feel secure about the future. The key articles for me were the Emmo and BRM ones, and while both were very well-illustrated, the Emmo one didn't tell me much I didn't already know. The BRM one was pretty good, but didn't the P153 make its first public appearance in green...? Good Roebuck article, but Michele was always one of his favourites.

Haven't read the board-track article yet (only got my copy this morning, which probably means it arrived at work on Friday) but it looks good. And Whizzo should be good value.

Too much Frankel. Far too much Frankel.

#1609 ensign14

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 14:47

Did subscribers note the offer on the back of the address label? The new James Hunt book for a tenner.

#1610 ian senior

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 14:51

Originally posted by ensign14
Did subscribers note the offer on the back of the address label? The new James Hunt book for a tenner.


So they can't shift them?

#1611 petefenelon

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 15:22

Originally posted by ensign14
Did subscribers note the offer on the back of the address label? The new James Hunt book for a tenner.


Ah yes, I assume they're offering to pay us a tenner each to take Christopher Hilton books off their hands?;)

#1612 ensign14

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 15:50

I'm just wondering whether there'll be others for pre-remainder books.

#1613 Bill Becketts

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 20:55

Am I missing something...

The current (October) Issue front page shows "Emmo" cresting a rise in his Lotus 72 in JPS colours but without the JPS Logos..

Maybe the picture is taken in practice....or maybe reflection of the Sun makes them impossible to see....maybe I am missing something obvious..or have they been "Airbrushed out" :drunk:

#1614 Twin Window

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 21:08

Originally posted by petefenelon

Too much Frankel. Far too much Frankel.

Some would say that even a little is too much...

Originally posted by Bill Becketts

The current (October) Issue front page shows "Emmo" cresting a rise in his Lotus 72 in JPS colours but without the JPS Logos..

This came up on an RC thread, I think, a while back and I seem to remember mentioning that I'd noticed another Motor Sport cover (possibly an entire issue) where the ciggie branding had been removed.

Pretty poor effort on the current front cover, IMO - not much time spent or skill used on the reflections.

#1615 Rob Ryder

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 11:47

Originally posted by Bill Becketts
Am I missing something...
The current (October) Issue front page shows "Emmo" cresting a rise in his Lotus 72 in JPS colours but without the JPS Logos..


Yes, I noticed it too! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I cannot see the logic because all of the photos in the article showed Marlboro and JPS logo without tampering. I was tempted to shoot of a letter to the editor, but thought better of it. They do not seem to be interested in historical accuracy, so why would they be interested in my opinion :rolleyes:

I understand the current situation regarding tobacco advertising, but should it be applied retrospectively? Surely MS should take a stand on historical fact.. then again maybe not.

I do wonder where it will all stop. Will MotorSport apply current laws and PC to all of our photos from the past? Will the swastika be removed from certain German cars & driver uniforms of the 1930s because it could be viewed as anti-semitic now? Current rules of F1 demand using the HANS device.. will we see one Photoshopped on to Fangio in a 250F? I know that this sounds ridiculous, but is it any more ridiculous than changing the livery on a World Champion's car over 30 years after the event?

Rant over...
Rob

#1616 Marcus Simmons

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 12:40

As I am no longer involved on the staff of the magazine don't take this as gospel, but the removal of tobacco logos on the cover is probably due to this:-

Although editorial pages inside a magazine are on fairly safe ground, the cover of a magazine is seen in the eyes of the law as advertising (ie. it is advertising the magazine itself as a product). Theoretically an editor could be prosecuted for running a front-cover picture in which tobacco logos feature heavily, even though in many cases it is ludicrous to suggest that by doing so the magazine is supporting the tobacco industry. The editor's case is strengthened by the photo being historic, but he is still not 100% safe.

Fortunately, under the recent legislation, to my knowledge no-one has been prosecuted for 'reportage' covers that include tobacco advertising, but understandably no editor wants to be the first one caught out by the killjoys. We had a seminar about this at Haymarket, and I am sure editors from other publishing companies are familiar with the situation.

If this is the case, I quite understand why they've done it.

#1617 2F-001

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 12:46

Is the brand "John Player Special" still available?

And if not, would that make any difference?
"Advertising" a redundant brand would be a concept running counter to the tobacco industry's assertions that advertising is only effective in securing brand-recruits from the existing pool of smokers...


Edit:
Ah - I see that it is... thus my question is, in this case, entirely hypothetical!

#1618 Vitesse2

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 12:50

Yes, interesting point, Marcus. I assume you're referring to the recent change in English law where tobacco advertising is limited to the equivalent of an A5 sheet of paper at the point of sale? (In Ireland and Scotland I don't think you can even do that much - is it totally banned there?) I'm not sure it would apply to magazine covers although some over-zealous trading standards department might just give it a try on the grounds that it was not at the point of sale. Surely the easy answer would be "modesty bags" as used on top-shelf magazines or a printed shrink-wrap to obscure the cover picture? If you used the latter then it would be possible to print the shrink-wrap with a doctored version and the cover with an unaltered one.

#1619 2F-001

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 12:52

Originally posted by 2F-001
... from the existing pool of smokers...

That should read 'cloud' or 'fog' of smokers...

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#1620 jph

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 13:32

I understand that the EU directive banning tobacco advertising is being interpreted even more severely in France, to the extent that photographs inside magazines are being doctored to remove reference to the dreaded weed. Probably counter-productive as it will draw more attention to the picture - 'now, what brand was it that was advertised on Lunger's Mclaren?'

#1621 bradbury west

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 13:33

Why not just use a different photo or a mixture of smaller shots? Or am I just simple-minded? They obviously thought long and hard about the subject and the front cover. Just seems strange to me.

RL

#1622 Mallory Dan

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 14:04

The Lawyers strike again - sorry Ens !!!

#1623 ensign14

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 14:21

Nothing to do with lawyers. This is pure EU fascist protectionism.

Personally I'd publish and be damned because I cannot see any prosecution having a hope in hell of succeeding and cannot imagine even this government risking one.

#1624 Garagiste

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 14:25

If Tom and Jerry aren't safe.....

#1625 Allen Brown

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 14:30

"pure EU fascist protectionism"!

Nurse, it's time for his medication

#1626 SEdward

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 17:32

Fags? Lung er? Is that an inspired juxtaposition or pure fluke?

Curious
Edward

#1627 Bill Becketts

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 20:11

Originally posted by Marcus Simmons
As I am no longer involved on the staff of the magazine don't take this as gospel, but the removal of tobacco logos on the cover is probably due to this:-

Although editorial pages inside a magazine are on fairly safe ground, the cover of a magazine is seen in the eyes of the law as advertising (ie. it is advertising the magazine itself as a product). Theoretically an editor could be prosecuted for running a front-cover picture in which tobacco logos feature heavily, even though in many cases it is ludicrous to suggest that by doing so the magazine is supporting the tobacco industry. The editor's case is strengthened by the photo being historic, but he is still not 100% safe.

Fortunately, under the recent legislation, to my knowledge no-one has been prosecuted for 'reportage' covers that include tobacco advertising, but understandably no editor wants to be the first one caught out by the killjoys. We had a seminar about this at Haymarket, and I am sure editors from other publishing companies are familiar with the situation.

If this is the case, I quite understand why they've done it.


I understand your point completely Marcus, but am I wrong to suggest that only a magazine like Motor Sport could make a mark by being strong and standing firm........gving it a real chance to gain media attention and could become the OZ magazine of the 21st Century ;)

What chance Boris Johnson becoming the next Editor!...

#1628 Doug Nye

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 20:21

Oh for ---- sake. If you lack the confidence to use an unexpurgated photograph on your front cover, choose an alternative subject and illustrate that instead. There are nits, wits and combinations of the two. No prizes as to which applies here. Unbelievable!

DCN :mad: :mad: :mad:

#1629 ensign14

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 20:44

Originally posted by Allen Brown
"pure EU fascist protectionism"!

Nurse, it's time for his medication

Can't, they're banned as well. Protectionism again.

#1630 Marcus Simmons

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 10:52

As I said it's only a supposition of mine. Unfortunately OZ magazine is no longer going...

#1631 Bill Becketts

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 19:14

I agree with Doug.

A "Proper picture or no picture at all"

OK Marcus, I know OZ magazine is now defunkt, but a lot of people still remember it.....even if they don't remember why :stoned:

#1632 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:37

One of the people behinf OZ is now a multi-millionaire, being behind some of the various UK "lads' mags".

So much for radical idealism.

As for the "Motor Sport" front cover picture, it is truly shocking that they felt they had to do this. Are we to expect all front cover photos of cigarette logo'd cars to suffer similar treatment in future?

For a history based magazine to get some of the historical facts wrong on occasions is sloppy. For a history based magazine to deny certain aspects of history is unforgiveable. I for one will seriously reconsider my subscription if there is no reversal of this flawed editorial approach.

#1633 ensign14

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 08:00

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
One of the people behinf OZ is now a multi-millionaire, being behind some of the various UK "lads' mags".

So much for radical idealism.

He's bought Viz. "Not as funny as it used to be."

#1634 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 20:16

Originally posted by Bill Becketts

The current (October) Issue front page shows "Emmo" cresting a rise in his Lotus 72 in JPS colours but without the JPS Logos..


Just as we received MSp in Holland today, only 4 days behind on our friends in the UK we get this.... What a farce. I know it is not so bad as in french Autohebdo where all MildSeven and Marl-b names have been given some S-swing in Photoshop (now that looks awful), but to change a photo that is used with a historic purpose. Next we will get people removed from pictures, or start numbers changed, and so on.... MSp is not a japanese history schoolbook on WWII.

#1635 Twin Window

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 20:22

You must live fairly close to Brussels, Arjan - so go and sort them out!

#1636 sterling49

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 20:40

I recently re purchased editions of Motorsport from the early 1970's and it graphically illustrated how the latest copies offer little to read and stimulate........I still really cannot understand any company that changes a well known brand for something unrecognisable.........and then change it back again...............as the yanks say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!" I will consider whether I renew my subscription again, I phoned twice to see why the magazine was on the shelf but not on my magazine rack......captive audince I think! The customer is KING! something it seems even the organizers of F1 ignore today (at their peril).

I would like them to revisit some of the great duals of previos years......Siffert/Rodriguez in 917's at Spa.......Brabham/Rindt at Monaco........Clark/Gurney at the R.O.C. 1965..........if only....

#1637 Magee

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 22:36

I am somewhat surprised that the Editor or Publisher or both haven't invited original motorsport articles from this forum.

I'm sure that there are better writers/historians on this forum than there are on the MSp by lines.

Why don't they have a few pages reserved for this forum following a request for article imput?

Are you up to it?

#1638 jph

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 11:28

Thought I'd just bump this thread ready for the traditional monthly series of complaints and grumbles, given that the November edition is due to be published today.

#1639 sterling49

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 11:39

Originally posted by jph
Thought I'd just bump this thread ready for the traditional monthly series of complaints and grumbles, given that the November edition is due to be published today.


Sods law being what it is.....I leave for a week in La Belle France soon......and it will arrive early....while I am away........I would lay money on it!!!! :lol:

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#1640 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 12:11

Originally posted by Magee
I am somewhat surprised that the Editor or Publisher or both haven't invited original motorsport articles from this forum.

I'm sure that there are better writers/historians on this forum than there are on the MSp by lines.

Why don't they have a few pages reserved for this forum following a request for article imput?

Are you up to it?


An often considered question, to which there really is not much of an answer at the moment. It is my considered opinion that more a few on this forum could make contributions to the magazine which would easily surpass by light years what has been seen on its pages as the general accepted level of writing and research in the past several years.

When I read that comment, I thought about the response that I got when they ran the nonsense that they published on Tripoli several years ago and offered an article based upon the latest research and not the Neubauer myth -- "Not intestered, we just had an article on Tripoli..." -- and each time I consider submitting it, I think, "**** 'em. " I offered them something (for free no less) and they turned it down, even as a rebuttal. Plus, the article that Hans wrote and I helped with on 1939 has sat in a drawer for years now.... I don't think that they are capable of opening their eyes and tapping into this resource. Maybe the new guys are not as completely hopeless and clueless as the old team, but I am not holding my breath.

I did get my copy of the latest (October) issue earlier this week here in Kuwait. It was a delight to finally see the article that Gary did on the board tracks. It simply confirms my notion that Gary seems incapable of finding a boring topic to write about. The best thing to appear in ages.

Not sure what I will do about MS in the future. Until this issue it was not even a discussion item -- I was not going to renew my subscription. However, if they seem to be getting serious about putting out a magazine worth reading then I might hang around a bit longer. However, this is subject to change since if they revert to form.... bye-bye.

#1641 James Page

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 12:50

Originally posted by Magee
I'm sure that there are better writers/historians on this forum than there are on the MSp by lines.


I work as a production editor across a wide range of magazine titles, and quite often the standard of writing (in the form of raw copy) is very poor. However, the common factor is that the writers have a deep knowledge and passion for their subject. They're enthusiasts first, writers second. As long as a magazine has decent Prod Eds and subs, they can use a wide range of expert freelancers.

#1642 Allen Brown

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 13:04

James, I've always been curious, what's the difference between the roles of a sub ed and a prod ed. And which would pick me up for the disgusting syntax of that first sentence? Or for starting my sentences with 'and'? Or 'or'?

Allen

#1643 petefenelon

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 13:06

Originally posted by James Page


I work as a production editor across a wide range of magazine titles, and quite often the standard of writing (in the form of raw copy) is very poor. However, the common factor is that the writers have a deep knowledge and passion for their subject. They're enthusiasts first, writers second. As long as a magazine has decent Prod Eds and subs, they can use a wide range of expert freelancers.


MS's subbing and proofing has been very variable over the last couple of decades - i.e. it's varied between poor and utterly bloody abysmal (probably reaching its nadir in the mid-nineties before the relaunch). A lot of it read like it had never been read before appearing in print. What we see now is a great improvement...

I think the new owners are probably more interested in making a magazine that looks good than reads well, at least in the first instance....

#1644 James Page

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Posted 29 September 2006 - 13:43

Originally posted by Allen Brown
James, I've always been curious, what's the difference between the roles of a sub ed and a prod ed. And which would pick me up for the disgusting syntax of that first sentence? Or for starting my sentences with 'and'? Or 'or'?

Allen


Not much, to be honest! A Prod Ed has a slightly wider range of responsibilty, though. Whereas the actual act of subbing articles will be pretty much all a sub does, a Prod Ed will do that as well as help with the actual running of the magazine - getting it to press on time, chasing contributors, organising freelancers and so on.

#1645 Flemming

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 08:08

Hi

I read all the comments with interest. Motorsport is a good magazine in my opinion - but there will naturally be issues with lesser interest and issues that stands out.

But lately the problem for me is to actually get it. I have been a subscriber for years and still is. But as of today I have still to recieve the latest issue (Emmo on front) :evil: Same problem with the previous issue. And a friend of mine has the same problem.

I'm also a Autosport subscriber (naturally!) and they are able to deliver a magazine a mere 2-4 days after publication...

I'm living in Denmark - less than 1½ hours flight from London - NOT in Antarctica or something! They need to shape up. Naturally I can buy it in the shops here if I want to spend in the region of 11£ on each issue... No I won't - and it is frustrating to see the current issue in the shops.

Anyone else with the same problem?


Best regards


Flemming

#1646 Hieronymus

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 09:14

Saw the "latest" edition (the one with the CanAm car on the cover) of MOTOR SPORT that is now on sale her in ZA....I'm not impress at all.

#1647 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 13:13

I got a notice the past day or so that they are dropping me form the list of those who get "complimentary" copies of the magazine (a nice gesture from Stuart while I am here in the desert) -- I was obviously judged and found wanting.

Still a bit muddled as to whether or not I will renew my subscription -- adding Gary to those whose work might grace its pages changes things a bit in my view. However, it will be a close call regardless of how it goes. I was prepared to finally walk away until the issue with Gary arrived. I may still walk away from the subscription and do as many say that they are -- or will be -- doing: simply look at it whenever it appears on the newsstand and make the decision then.

#1648 ian senior

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 08:30

On the shelves here in the UK this morning. Had a very quick look and there appears to be a decentish article on Phil Hill, but more remarkably, for those who have discussed this before, a feature by Brian Sewell on historic motor racing posters. Might actually part with some cash this month. Some hilarity on seeing the "expensive toys" page showing a watch costing in excess of 170,000 Euros.

#1649 Rob Ryder

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Posted 05 October 2006 - 11:44

Going back to the October edition when they 'butchered' the Lotus on the cover. I was so incensed that I wrote to my local MEPs for their comments.. you may be interested in their replies...

"Dear Mr. Ryder,
Thank you your email with regard to tobacco advertising law.

This has resulted from an EU directive which has banned sponsorship of sporting events by tobacco firms. The EU directive also bans tobacco advertising in the print media, radio and internet. This clearly will have an impact upon any past or present published sports magazines which contain such forms of advertising as JPS logos in an issue of a Motor Sport magazine.

Therefore, as I understand it in order to abide by existing EU law, images perceived to promote smoking are not allowed in the print media for sporting events. Clearly the intent is not to distort history; however, this unfortunately is necessary in order to comply with such EU regulations.

My personal view is that it is ridiculous for this directive to infringe in historical Motor Sport pictures.

Thank you for your email. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future.

Regards,

Martin Callanan MEP
North East Region, Conservative."


and..

"Dear Mr Ryder
The Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Act 2002 prohibits the advertising and promotion of tobacco products in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, including sponsorships.

It may be that Motor Sport magazine took legal advice and decided to “doctor” the photo from the 1970s in order to comply with this Act. The European Union law does not go so far as to say that such action needs to be taken but the UK legislation and subsequent case law may have led to the decision taken by Motor Sport magazine.

Yours sincerely
Stephen Hughes MEP"


The world has gone crazy! :mad: :mad:

I did appreciated the candid comment from Martin Callanan: "My personal view is that it is ridiculous for this directive to infringe in historical Motor Sport pictures. " :up: :up:
Rob
P.S. This months subscription copy has just hit my doormat.. looks quite interesting :eek:

#1650 ensign14

ensign14
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Posted 05 October 2006 - 11:52

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
The European Union law does not go so far as to say that such action needs to be taken but the UK legislation and subsequent case law may have led to the decision taken by Motor Sport magazine.

There you go, it's Bliar's fault (again) through over-interpretation of a Fourth Reich diktat.