Jump to content


Photo

'Motor Sport' magazine


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4174 replies to this topic

#1851 Twin Window

Twin Window
  • Nostalgia Host

  • 6,611 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 05 December 2006 - 10:19

Originally posted by petefenelon

There was an absolutely fantastic cover of a 'Batmobile' at the Ring back in period, would've been great to see that used. It was one of the shots that made me fall in love with the car as a kid!

I learned when I was working on the mag, IIRC, that the pic you're referring to - Stuck in the black CSL - was taken on a lap which saw him take something like 14 seconds off the class record!

It may be in the issue itself, I forget. TNFer bigears uses the pic as his avatar.

Advertisement

#1852 Maldwyn

Maldwyn
  • Member

  • 1,486 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 21 December 2006 - 10:09

Some may say I'm not really on the ball :drunk: but I just realised this morning that my January issue (Hill on the cover) had not arrived through the letter box :eek: A quick call to the subs dept should see it arrive in a week or so. It's the first time I've had a problem with delivery so perhaps I should be grateful!

#1853 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,822 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:02

Is this a delivery record?I have just received the post and in it, is my February copy of Motorsport, not looked at it yet, just amazed that it has come before the end of December :eek: :eek:

#1854 Gary C

Gary C
  • Member

  • 4,551 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 27 December 2006 - 11:07

Yep, mine was delivered this very morning too.

#1855 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,894 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 27 December 2006 - 11:23

Originally posted by Gary C
Yep, mine was delivered this very morning too.


Too much of a hurry?. The odd photo caption should have been checked.... :eek:

#1856 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,868 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 27 December 2006 - 11:24

Tell us more, Dabs!

#1857 Rob Ryder

Rob Ryder
  • Member

  • 2,073 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 27 December 2006 - 11:47

Mine hasn't arrived - just a reminder that this is my last chance to renew my subscription... NOPE!
Rob

#1858 Shockabuku

Shockabuku
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 27 December 2006 - 14:31

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
Mine hasn't arrived - just a reminder that this is my last chance to renew my subscription... NOPE!
Rob


On the subject of subscriptions, if anyone is looking around for the cheapest UK sub price, Magscriber (www.magscriber.com) are offering 12 months for £38, which doesn't seem too bad.

#1859 bigears

bigears
  • Member

  • 872 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 27 December 2006 - 15:40

But I can't find anything about the Motorsport magazine in the website provided there.

As the January edition is out to some of us so I better buy the December edition tomorrow then!

Advertisement

#1860 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,236 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 27 December 2006 - 15:43

Originally posted by bigears
But I can't find anything about the Motorsport magazine in the website provided there.


They're just trying to fool you. It's cunningly hidden deep in the 'M' section of the A to Z list. I've just had a look, and discovered I'd save quite a bit by transferring my Autosport subscription to them. There must be a catch of some kind.

#1861 bigears

bigears
  • Member

  • 872 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 27 December 2006 - 16:39

Sweet! I will re-subscribe to them then.

Thank you for pointing it out. :)

#1862 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,822 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 28 December 2006 - 13:45

Originally posted by Shockabuku


On the subject of subscriptions, if anyone is looking around for the cheapest UK sub price, Magscriber (www.magscriber.com) are offering 12 months for £38, which doesn't seem too bad.


Thanks for the tip......no wonder my issue came early....it was followed today by the subscription renewal :rolleyes: ....due in March/April I believe, call me synical but I will look at your link as it offers a real saving on their "Special Offer" pricing!

#1863 john aston

john aston
  • Member

  • 828 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 30 December 2006 - 08:24

Notice that the Jaguar Le Mans car on cover differs slightly from the one in the text.Just like the recent Lotus 72 cover the fag reference - Silk Cut - removed.What next - show a cover of an Austin Seven and airbrush in some seatbelts? Paint some tread on a set of slicks? FFS this is ridiculous.

#1864 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,362 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 30 December 2006 - 10:28

I agree it seems ridiculous, John, but MS are only covering their *rses.

http://forums.autosp...233#post2493233

The tobacco industry is under increasing pressure regarding advertising and as I said in my post just after Marcus's it just takes some over-zealous trading standards officer to open a whole new can of worms. Motor Sport has finally got displays back into places like Tesco and WH Smug - the last thing any of those companies want is a high-profile prosecution for flouting tobacco advertising regulations.

Within five years, I think the UK will be what the industry calls a "dark market" - all advertising will be banned and it might not even be possible to display cigarette packets openly. However, experience in Australia and Thailand shows that the big tobacco companies find ways to circumvent the law.

#1865 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,822 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 30 December 2006 - 11:11

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I agree it seems ridiculous, John, but MS are only covering their *rses.

http://forums.autosp...233#post2493233

Within five years, I think the UK will be what the industry calls a "dark market" - all advertising will be banned and it might not even be possible to display cigarette packets openly. However, experience in Australia and Thailand shows that the big tobacco companies find ways to circumvent the law.


Agreed, on a recent trip to the Far East, I saw a Wild Seven promotion/display in a shopping mall in Kuala Lumpur, it was just a great advertising billboard, a bit like the old Menthol cigarettes advert of the early '60's "cool as a mountain stream". They had a ski landscape and everybody looked fit and healthy and Wild Seven were ably getting their message across to a new generation, it just would not have been allowed in Europe.

#1866 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,499 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:00

Of course, if they just banned cigarettes (as they would with any other drug that killed 100,000 people per year), they could allow cigarette advertising.

#1867 PeterElleray

PeterElleray
  • Member

  • 789 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:37

Interesting to see that in 'Grand Designs', for which Keith Howard took the trouble to talk to both myself and Guy Smith at length, the photography dept has managed to come up with a shot of the one car in the series that isnt actually a Bentley at all! Look through the text and you'll find a mention of an unbadged, DFL powered prototype - and thats the car in the picture, suitably painted to look like the first version of the car for shows etc. So, when you read Guys detailed comments on the engine and the aero performance, dont bother to look at the car on the opposite page, its completely different...

Intentional..... or perhaps not?.....

#1868 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 5,737 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 30 December 2006 - 15:24

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vitesse2
................................. Motor Sport has finally got displays back into places like Tesco and WH Smug [/QUOTE

Still no Motor Sport in my local Tesco and it's a 32 checkout store.

#1869 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,236 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 30 December 2006 - 15:27

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RTH
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vitesse2
................................. Motor Sport has finally got displays back into places like Tesco and WH Smug [/QUOTE

Still no Motor Sport in my local Tesco and it's a 32 checkout store.
[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing that at some time, you've stood in a queue long enough to count them all?

#1870 john aston

john aston
  • Member

  • 828 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 30 December 2006 - 17:13

Sorry , the problem lies with the publisher.The magazine is not advertising cigarettes, but portraying cars which ,in period, lawfully could display such advertising.Are people really saying that if the Independent carried a news story on cover which incidentally included a Marlboro advert (eg on wall of a building which featured in the story)it would be breaking the law?

#1871 KJJ

KJJ
  • Member

  • 702 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 30 December 2006 - 18:01

If they had proper cars on the cover there would be no need to worry about all this tobacco stuff.

#1872 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,894 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 30 December 2006 - 18:47

Originally posted by KJJ
If they had proper cars on the cover there would be no need to worry about all this tobacco stuff.


Ones without a roof and doors?

#1873 KJJ

KJJ
  • Member

  • 702 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 30 December 2006 - 19:42

Originally posted by David Beard


Ones without a roof and doors?


Not necessarily, just browsing "My Cars, My Career" no problem there.

#1874 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 7,236 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 30 December 2006 - 20:07

Originally posted by KJJ
....'My Cars, My Career', no problem there.


One of the greatest motor racing books of all time, all my copy lacks is an autograph, but I can't be bothered to cart it along to Goodwood each year.

#1875 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,362 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 30 December 2006 - 21:58

Originally posted by john aston
Sorry , the problem lies with the publisher.The magazine is not advertising cigarettes, but portraying cars which ,in period, lawfully could display such advertising.Are people really saying that if the Independent carried a news story on cover which incidentally included a Marlboro advert (eg on wall of a building which featured in the story)it would be breaking the law?

I think we can assume that this could feasibly be an interpretation of the law. English law is very clear: tobacco products can only be advertised at the point of sale ie the cigarette gantry in-store or a cigarette dispensing machine in pubs, clubs etc. Retailers can no longer use counter mats with tobacco logos, pubs can no longer use tobacco-sponsored rubber darts mats, water jugs, beermats etc etc.

The maximum area allowed for advertising at point of sale is the equivalent of an A5 sheet of paper. As I have previously pointed out, an over-zealous TSO could theoretically bring a prosecution on two counts - advertising in a prohibited place and thereby exceeding the maximum area allowed.

No publisher or retailer is going to want to go down that road .....

#1876 Jack-the-Lad

Jack-the-Lad
  • Member

  • 1,409 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 31 December 2006 - 00:44

Originally posted by Vitesse2

I think we can assume that this could feasibly be an interpretation of the law. English law is very clear: tobacco products can only be advertised at the point of sale ie the cigarette gantry in-store or a cigarette dispensing machine in pubs, clubs etc. Retailers can no longer use counter mats with tobacco logos, pubs can no longer use tobacco-sponsored rubber darts mats, water jugs, beermats etc etc.

The maximum area allowed for advertising at point of sale is the equivalent of an A5 sheet of paper. As I have previously pointed out, an over-zealous TSO could theoretically bring a prosecution on two counts - advertising in a prohibited place and thereby exceeding the maximum area allowed.

No publisher or retailer is going to want to go down that road .....


I'm sure all that's true, but it still seems like revisionism when photos and other historical artifacts are altered to comply with some arcane and bizarre legal construct. That slope is indeed steep and slippery....

Jack

#1877 john aston

john aston
  • Member

  • 828 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 31 December 2006 - 08:38

So the fear is that a trading standards muppet would prosecute.So what? As far as I can see there has been no breach of the law - I can't be the only one who thinks that the TSO would be laughed out of court ? Wonder what agonies said TSO would go through if MS featured a car sponsored by some defunct brand- Passing Clouds Team Lotus, Scuderia Perfectos or Ecurie Kensitas anyone ?

#1878 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,362 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 31 December 2006 - 19:49

Originally posted by Jack-the-Lad


I'm sure all that's true, but it still seems like revisionism when photos and other historical artifacts are altered to comply with some arcane and bizarre legal construct. That slope is indeed steep and slippery....

Jack

Not a legal construct, but Brunel bowdlerised

Originally posted by john aston
As far as I can see there has been no breach of the law - I can't be the only one who thinks that the TSO would be laughed out of court ?

Not necessarily: it could become an important part of case law (whichever way the verdict went).

Tobacco company reps regularly carry out "advertising audits" at retailers' premises to ensure that they are not inadvertently breaking the law by even a little bit. For example Imperial Tobacco reps will remove printed transit boxes for their Golden Virginia brand if they see them being used in displays - it's thought that the small GV logo on them may just be construed as extra advertising over and above the A5 limit.

Believe me, John. I know of what I speak - much of my life as a retail manager is spent ensuring we don't break any one of a myriad laws connected with tobacco and alcohol.

#1879 Andrew Kitson

Andrew Kitson
  • Member

  • 2,534 posts
  • Joined: July 03

Posted 31 December 2006 - 20:34

In many areas we need clarification on what is allowed or not, something I must look in to. Am I allowed to have a stand at a show with framed art prints or paintings of for example: John Player Specials, Marlboro McLarens and Gold Leaf Team Lotus? I bet I WILL be allowed or even encouraged to hang up a Durex Surtees painting - if I had one that is! How things change..

Advertisement

#1880 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,499 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 31 December 2006 - 20:36

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Not necessarily: it could become an important part of case law (whichever way the verdict went).

And any legal case involves some expenditure that would be irrecoverable.

Having said that I don't think any prosecution of Motor Sport would succeed. There's no "advertising" as MS has not been paid for it.

Then again, the Fourth Reich Gestapo hounded a Sunderland market staller to his death for the heinous crime of selling a pound of potatoes.

#1881 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,362 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 31 December 2006 - 20:54

Originally posted by ensign14

And any legal case involves some expenditure that would be irrecoverable.

So what? It'll be paid for out of the Council Tax if they lose :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ensign14
Having said that I don't think any prosecution of Motor Sport would succeed. There's no "advertising" as MS has not been paid for it.

I think that would be the nub of the argument. Is it advertising or would there be a "fair use" getout as in copyright? And the fact remains that the tobacco company's logo is being displayed and that's technically illegal.

Originally posted by ensign14
Then again, the Fourth Reich Gestapo hounded a Sunderland market staller to his death for the heinous crime of selling a pound of potatoes.

And once they get their teeth into you, TSOs want to know the ins and out of a cat's a*sehole. Probably just to get their name in "Trading Standards Weekly" or whatever their house organ is called :rolleyes:

#1882 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,868 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 31 December 2006 - 21:00

Getting away from fags for a moment....

Am I alone in thinking that the 2 pages attributed to W.B. about Peter Collins' career were rather pointless? His race results could easily have been listed one below the other and maybe more pictures added. We certainly learned nothing more about this great driver from those 2 pages.

AND, who is this PEDOSA, with whom Moss shared a Maserati in a sports car race at Monza????

#1883 Jack-the-Lad

Jack-the-Lad
  • Member

  • 1,409 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 31 December 2006 - 21:36

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Getting away from fags for a moment....


Can we all agree?:

Dear MotorSport Editor:

Please publish photos as they were taken.

Thank you,

Your Loyal Readers.

#1884 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,499 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 31 December 2006 - 21:37

Originally posted by Vitesse2

So what? It'll be paid for out of the Council Tax if they lose :rolleyes:

I'm thinking for the accused...

Originally posted by Vitesse2

And once they get their teeth into you, TSOs want to know the ins and out of a cat's a*sehole. Probably just to get their name in "Trading Standards Weekly" or whatever their house organ is called :rolleyes:

Der Sturmer?

#1885 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,040 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 31 December 2006 - 21:40

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Getting away from fags for a moment....

Am I alone in thinking that the 2 pages attributed to W.B. about Peter Collins' career were rather pointless? His race results could easily have been listed one below the other and maybe more pictures added. We certainly learned nothing more about this great driver from those 2 pages.

Yes we did. We learned that he won in 1958 at Buenos Aires and Sebring, driving with Graham Hill. We also learned that in 1956 the International Trophy race followed the Monaco Grand Prix. In the same year, the Nurburgring 1,000kms followed the Belgian Grand Prix and the French Grand Prix was after the British Grand Prix.

#1886 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,868 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 31 December 2006 - 21:43

:(

I didn't want to go into too much detail......

So who is Pedosa, Roger?

#1887 RA Historian

RA Historian
  • Member

  • 3,428 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 31 December 2006 - 21:51

Why all this harumphing about the cover photo being altered? Vitesse2 is absolutely correct in everything he says. Whether we like it or not, MS has to take the prudent and safe course of action to protect themselves. I cannot speak to the zealotry of the politically correct movement in the UK, but in the litigious society that we have over here in the US such a law as you have would see all manner of PC radicals jumping all over themselves to sue any magazine publisher, distributor, and vendor for all manner of recompense (punishment) for the heinous crime of displaying a cigarette advert. We are not quite there yet, but it is coming.

Now I agree with a number of you in that I would dearly love to see a principled stand be taken and Marlboro, JPS, what have you remain on the car on the cover. My conservative nature would want to take that stand. But, with lawyers eager to file lawsuits at the slightest provocation, with PC zealots foaming at the mouth to save us from what they consider to be wrong, and with an unpredicatable legal system that can turn on a whim, the risk is simply too great. Business have to protect themselves, and further, have to protect the investment of thier stock holders. MS is doing the prudent thing, the only thing that they can do.

I know, I know, this is not a popular opinion and you are probably thinking dire thoughts about what I am writing. But folks, in this day and age that is the way it is. And I wish it were not so.

#1888 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,040 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 31 December 2006 - 21:53

Originally posted by Barry Boor
:(

I didn't want to go into too much detail......

So who is Pedosa, Roger?

Rides a Honda in MotoGP, doesn't he?

#1889 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,868 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 31 December 2006 - 22:11

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........

#1890 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 24,362 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 31 December 2006 - 22:18

Originally posted by ensign14

I'm thinking for the accused...

You don't do many prosecutions then? :p ;)

Originally posted by ensign14
Der Sturmer?


:rotfl: :rotfl: :up: :up:


Originally posted by RA Historian
MS is doing the prudent thing, the only thing that they can do.

I know, I know, this is not a popular opinion and you are probably thinking dire thoughts about what I am writing. But folks, in this day and age that is the way it is. And I wish it were not so.

Where America goes, so the UK will surely follow.

Or, in the case of tobacco legislation, where Ireland goes. Every anti-smoking law enacted in the UK has been presaged in Ireland.

#1891 Sharman

Sharman
  • Member

  • 2,702 posts
  • Joined: September 05

Posted 31 December 2006 - 22:19

Just thinkng, I'd even go along with revisionism if somebody would/could revise Bernie out of the equation. :p
And A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL

#1892 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 54,094 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 31 December 2006 - 22:55

Originally posted by Jack-the-Lad
I'm sure all that's true, but it still seems like revisionism when photos and other historical artifacts are altered to comply with some arcane and bizarre legal construct. That slope is indeed steep and slippery....


And a legacy of the unfortunate fact that motor racing people spent so much time fornicating with tobacco interests...

It was evident when they began that their time would be limited, though the tobacco lobbies have enabled it to extend to 40 years or so, but to many it brought into question the morality of the fornicators.

Motor racing at many levels was prostituted to tobacco. Many things would be different today if that hadn't happened.

#1893 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,725 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 01 January 2007 - 12:29

Slightly OT, but it is interesting that GP and Group 6 cars can still race in the UK wearing their original Marlboro/Silk Cut/JPS/Gold Leaf liveries - in fact the TGP organisers positively encourage originality in this respect. You wouldn't be allowed to run them at the GP meeting, presumably.

#1894 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,499 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 01 January 2007 - 14:39

Originally posted by Barry Boor

Am I alone in thinking that the 2 pages attributed to W.B. about Peter Collins' career were rather pointless? His race results could easily have been listed one below the other and maybe more pictures added. We certainly learned nothing more about this great driver from those 2 pages.

We learnt that Mike Hawthorn died in 1960.

#1895 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,868 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 01 January 2007 - 17:06

Is there anything correct in that feature at all???

#1896 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,894 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 01 January 2007 - 17:14

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Is there anything correct in that feature at all???


The photo of the Dino that is claimed to be a Ferrari Lancia D50, at least was taken at Silverstone. :confused:

#1897 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,822 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 01 January 2007 - 17:21

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Is there anything correct in that feature at all???


I have not even looked at it yet as I have been avidly reading "The Lost Generation", which has also managed to keep me away from the pc :rolleyes: However, I feel less inclined to read MotorSport now, in view of the comments posted. I really think MS should raise their game to the level of the knowledge held by many in this Forum :blush: Perhaps MS think that readers will just "not notice" errors because they believe readers have a lower level of knowledge than they have :lol:

#1898 Jack-the-Lad

Jack-the-Lad
  • Member

  • 1,409 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 01 January 2007 - 17:28

Originally posted by sterling49
Perhaps MS think that readers will just "not notice" errors because they believe readers have a lower level of knowledge than they have :lol:


That may be true very soon.....

Jack

#1899 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,822 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 01 January 2007 - 17:59

Originally posted by Jack-the-Lad


That may be true very soon.....

Jack



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

sooo true, I still have not opened mine...........got some serious reading to do 1st!

Advertisement

#1900 Mallory Dan

Mallory Dan
  • Member

  • 2,680 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 02 January 2007 - 14:38

Originally posted by sterling49


I have not even looked at it yet as I have been avidly reading "The Lost Generation", which has also managed to keep me away from the pc :rolleyes: However, I feel less inclined to read MotorSport now, in view of the comments posted. I really think MS should raise their game to the level of the knowledge held by many in this Forum :blush: Perhaps MS think that readers will just "not notice" errors because they believe readers have a lower level of knowledge than they have :lol:


Quite agree Sterling, I'm halfway through TLG, and loving it. MS will have to wait, probably until after the Dennis Munday/Paul Weller book is finished too !