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'Motor Sport' magazine


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#2051 bradbury west

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 16:48

Originally posted by sterling49



I am reading "Racing In The Rain" at present, it gives some very good insights......I just did not realize that during the Spa 1000kms in the JW Gulf 917, that Brian Redman co-drove, he ran average laps so much faster than his teamates, and they included Seppi and Pedro :eek:

I watched Pedro and Seppi and Ickx intently, but would readily admit to perhaps overlooking the contributions made by David Hobbs, Redman and Oliver, and they were just a few of the very sucessful JW driving team.

Jackie had some great drives in Ferrari, Ford and Porsche sportscars, it was nice for him to be the subject of an article in MS.


Quod vide posts 20,21 &29 with replies.

http://forums.autosp...164#post2565164

Roger Lund.

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#2052 RA Historian

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:25

Originally posted by ensign14
I'd've liked him to comment on his feelings on the last lap of Le Mans 1969, with the race still in doubt - when it would have been cut & dried had Ickx run to the car at the start...

Do you really think that those five or so seconds would have remained static for 24 hours?

#2053 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:45

Probably not, but the cumulative effect of following and then passing the slower cars that might have otherwise been behind him at the start would likely be substantially more than five seconds.

Jack

#2054 Maldwyn

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 08:20

Am I alone in thinking the piece on the Renault R26 should have been in F1 Racing?

#2055 sterling49

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 08:26

Originally posted by Maldwyn
Am I alone in thinking the piece on the Renault R26 should have been in F1 Racing?


Agreed, I did not want to be the 1st to post this observation!

#2056 ensign14

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 09:04

Originally posted by RA Historian
Do you really think that those five or so seconds would have remained static for 24 hours?

It might have been more like 30 by the time Ickx wove his way through backmarkers. That might have at least made it a bit more comfortable by the end.

#2057 RA Historian

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 13:21

Yes, that may be right. My thinking is that 24 hours has ample opportunity to make or lose time.

#2058 RA Historian

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 19:59

By the way, here we are debating the April edition, and I am still waiting for March! As someone said earlier, EWA in the US is getting slower and slower in its mailings. Theoretically, they get the magazines air shipped to them as soon as they are published, and then put them into the mail. If so, we in the US should get them with days after our British friends do. However, I checked the EWA web site, where it says that the March issue was mailed Feb. 27! With approximately two weeks required to get the mag from New Jersey to Wisconsin, that means that I still have a week to go to get the March issue. I hope everyone ( but those of us Stateside) is enjoying April...........

#2059 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 22:04

Originally posted by RA Historian
By the way, here we are debating the April edition, and I am still waiting for March! As someone said earlier, EWA in the US is getting slower and slower in its mailings. Theoretically, they get the magazines air shipped to them as soon as they are published, and then put them into the mail. If so, we in the US should get them with days after our British friends do. However, I checked the EWA web site, where it says that the March issue was mailed Feb. 27! With approximately two weeks required to get the mag from New Jersey to Wisconsin, that means that I still have a week to go to get the March issue. I hope everyone ( but those of us Stateside) is enjoying April...........


Just arrived home after visits to Fort Benning (drop off my battle rattle and out-process for that sort of stuff) and then my out-brief to the Program Executive Officer (PEO) for Simulations, Training & Instrumentation (STRI) and the Program Managers (PM) at Orlando on my fun-filled 21 months in Kuwait, Iraq, and other garden spots in the Gulf. When I checked the mail on the table, there was the March issue from EWA.....

Apparently my subscription finally expires with the April issue. This will be an interesting decision to make....

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#2060 RA Historian

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 02:56

Glory be. Got home tonight, and like Don, here was March waiting for me. Mario on the cover, interesting content inside, fellows, there may be static on this site from some of you, but doggone it, I like the mag.

Now Don and I are only one month behind.............

#2061 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 03:38

Reading the article on Keller and the Jaguar in New Jersey at Linden Airport, the sentence "....the series' first ever road-course event..." caught my attention. Greg Fielden also calls Linden the "first road race in NASCAR Grand National history" in the first volume of his "Forty Years of Stock Car Racing" -- "The Beginning 1949-1958." This raises the question of what do you call the course used at Daytona Beach until 1958? It was certainly a road course in that it used an actual road as part of the racing circuit. Wouldn't that make it a road course?

Or did I miss something?

#2062 ensign14

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 08:21

Doesn't he call it a road/beach course or something in the appendices?

#2063 RA Historian

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 13:05

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
. Wouldn't that make it a road course?

Or did I miss something?

I don't think that you did! I would imagine that the mindset in play here considers it a road course only if it has right turn(s) in it, not whether or not it ran on actual roads!

Don't know if it is still there, but years ago I took a drive down to the south end of the beach and one could still see the earth banking at the north end of the old beach/road course.

#2064 David Lawson

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 14:43

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Another batch of ABC circulation figures just released. No figures for Motor Sport yet, but the whole motoring category is suffering, with two exceptions. The numbers and percentages relate to what the trade calls newsstand single copy sales in the UK only.

C&SC was the only good news for Haymarket though. F1 Racing dropped 7.9% to 22213, Autosport 12.0% to 20465 and Motorsport News 16.4% to 17362. How long before they amalgamate their two weeklies?


If anyone is interested, my subscription copy of Autosport this week came with a complimentary copy of "Motoring News" which I still insist on calling it.

David

#2065 RS2000

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 16:10

I just wish we could go back to Motoring News when motorsport experts were involved...
MN is apparently right now chasing around with on line petitions etc (that dont ask the right question) in an attempt to undo the latest damage it has caused the sport (3 cases in not many more than 3 weeks is going some!). This week's episode failed to grasp the essential point of the rallying scandal that broke on Eppynt last weekend over the absence of a practicable and acceptable method of fuel sampling. It quoted the Chief Executive of the MSA as being "satisfied" with the shambles caused (by the MSA, who are the "civil service" charged with putting into practice regulations passed by the MSC) and MN is now unlikely ever to live down the accusations of bias and worse freely floating around the rally world on line and elsewhere. We just might be seeing the begining of the breakup of the MSC/A over this and MN, once the gospel of rallying under various "Verglas", seems to have badly fumbled the ball...

#2066 simon drabble

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 16:22

Originally posted by David Lawson


If anyone is interested, my subscription copy of Autosport this week came with a complimentary copy of "Motoring News" which I still insist on calling it.

David

Having always just bought Autosport I was tempting by the free Sparco kitbag and cheap mags so look fwd to my first subscription edition to be at home when I get back - fortunately the edition at WH Smiths was sealed so I couldnt preread it! So that means I am now getting Motorsport, Autosport, Vintage Racecar and HMRN by post - no wonder my wife thinks I am sad!!

#2067 Lemans

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 17:57

EWA in the US .

EWA no longer handles the Motor Sport account as of mid Feb. 07. I called to renew and was told this. The new company explained to me that the reason MS is late is that is mailed to each household as opposed to bulk to bookstores which have it sooner at times. Makes sense I guess.

#2068 philippe charuest

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 20:16

its a fact that they are in store here in Montreal (probably the same in the rest of north america)around the first of the month, meaning one month after the release in the UK

#2069 Jim Thurman

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 06:30

The local major book chain has stopped carrying MotorSport, so I have no idea what's appeared in the last three issues.

#2070 David Lawson

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 07:33

Originally posted by RS2000
I just wish we could go back to Motoring News when motorsport experts were involved...
MN is apparently right now chasing around with on line petitions etc (that dont ask the right question) in an attempt to undo the latest damage it has caused the sport (3 cases in not many more than 3 weeks is going some!). This week's episode failed to grasp the essential point of the rallying scandal that broke on Eppynt last weekend over the absence of a practicable and acceptable method of fuel sampling. It quoted the Chief Executive of the MSA as being "satisfied" with the shambles caused (by the MSA, who are the "civil service" charged with putting into practice regulations passed by the MSC) and MN is now unlikely ever to live down the accusations of bias and worse freely floating around the rally world on line and elsewhere. We just might be seeing the begining of the breakup of the MSC/A over this and MN, once the gospel of rallying under various "Verglas", seems to have badly fumbled the ball...


At the risk of going way off thread about Motorsport magazine, I'm not sure what you're saying about the Motoring News report on the fuel irregularities in British rallying. I know nothing about it other than what I read in this weeks MN and it appears to me that the paper has reported the facts and the views of both the MSA and the competitors.

David

#2071 Rob29

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 08:13

Originally posted by David Lawson


If anyone is interested, my subscription copy of Autosport this week came with a complimentary copy of "Motoring News" which I still insist on calling it.

David

My copy of MN came with a voucher for £1 off any of the next 3 weeks Autosports :clap: Unfortunately it was a day late,no doubt due to the need to attach sticker showing price increase to £2.20 :cry:

#2072 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 08:37

To bring perhaps, a little balance to the "MotorSport make a lot of mistakes - it's not like it used to be" argument....

While at a fellow TNeffer's home this week, I had the time to peruse some very old copies of the magazine.

Yes, of course, there were very detailed reports from DSJ on races, and also quite detailed ones on some relatively minor events such as the 1958 Naples Grand Prix which was little more than an Italian club meeting.

However, the title of the magazine was, as it still is, Motor SPORT. Yet there seemed to be pages and pages of articles about old and obscure road cars that may or may not at some time have been anywhere near a race circuit.

So maybe it's not so bad today...

Oh yes, and one of the centre spread glossy page photos showed a high-tailed Lotus 12 being driven by Ivor BUSH!

(Before anyone leaps in to shout at me, I should say that there is a certain amount of tongue planted firmly in cheek about this post) :)

#2073 Alan Cox

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 08:57

In the late sixties I seem to recall that MN cost 6d and Autosport was 2s 6d - a ratio of 5:1. I find it hard to reconcile the current price of MN.

#2074 kayemod

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 09:49

Originally posted by Alan Cox
In the late sixties I seem to recall that MN cost 6d and Autosport was 2s 6d - a ratio of 5:1. I find it hard to reconcile the current price of MN.


I got a free copy this week with my subscription Autosport, and wasn't impressed. The target readership seems to be active club racers and people with an unnatural interest in ageing Subaru Impreza rally cars. It isn't much cheaper than AS either.

#2075 sterling49

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 10:28

Originally posted by Alan Cox
In the late sixties I seem to recall that MN cost 6d and Autosport was 2s 6d - a ratio of 5:1. I find it hard to reconcile the current price of MN.


Agreed Alan, the price of MN is scandalous IMO, I used to take both periodicals in the '60's/'70's, but neither interests me one jot now. The Format of both is garish, and the content of little interest to me, after all, Verglas used to be written by such knowledgeable and sporting greats, John Davenport IIRC......Is it any wonder that all of these magazines are suffering dwindling readership. My MotorSport subscription renewal reminder dropped through the door today, I will look at alternate sources of supply, 1 year @ £47.20, 2 years £87.40 and free "100 years of Grand Prix Racing" as a sweetener for DD payment...............

Sterling

#2076 RS2000

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 16:17

Originally posted by David Lawson


At the risk of going way off thread about Motorsport magazine, I'm not sure what you're saying about the Motoring News report on the fuel irregularities in British rallying. I know nothing about it other than what I read in this weeks MN and it appears to me that the paper has reported the facts and the views of both the MSA and the competitors.

David


That's the point: you have read a report allegedly highly biased towards promoting the quite bizarre statement of one man at the MSA who's grasp on reality now seems suspect. I find it inconceivable that Gerry Phillips as Verglas would not have been fully on top of the facts.

#2077 fausto

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 07:45

Read yesterday Jack Oliver piece on "April issue", vol. 83 no. 4, was amused to read that "But Arrows was becoming a university, the roll call of drivers including Villeneuve, Jones, Berger, Cheever and Warwick-....."

Villeneuve, yes the less popular of three, he didn't even qualify for the race, if I remember well...

:lol:

#2078 Bob Riebe

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 18:16

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


Just arrived home after visits to Fort Benning (drop off my battle rattle and out-process for that sort of stuff) and then my out-brief to the Program Executive Officer (PEO) for Simulations, Training & Instrumentation (STRI) and the Program Managers (PM) at Orlando on my fun-filled 21 months in Kuwait, Iraq, and other garden spots in the Gulf. When I checked the mail on the table, there was the March issue from EWA.....

Apparently my subscription finally expires with the April issue. This will be an interesting decision to make....


Amazing, depending on where you are in Wisc., I am in Minn. one to four hundred miles from you, and I did not get mine until early this week.

I used to subscribe to shotgun new out of Wisc. and when I resubscribed over the phone the lady said I would get my first issue in eight weeks.
I rather indignantly said I was less than two hundred miles from where it was published, what kind of hack operation were they running.

I got my first issue a few days later, first class.

Bob

#2079 Shockabuku

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 19:39

The May 2007 issue arrived on my doormat today.

Having had a brief flick through, it looks pretty good.

The good news is that there are what looks like some good articles on Gilles Villeneuve, the Toyota Celica GT4, Datsun 240Z and Aston Martin DBR9, as well as an interview with Ronzo about the start of McLaren International and Tony Brooks talking about being team mates with Stirling Moss. Simon Taylors' lunch interview this month is with Martin Brundle. :)

The bad news is that it appears that there's no Editor. Again. :(

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#2080 Barry Boor

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 19:44

the Toyota Celica GT4, Datsun 240Z and Aston Martin DBR9



Mmmm... none of those would send me rushing to W.H.S.

#2081 Allan Lupton

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 19:47

Originally posted by Shockabuku
The May 2007 issue arrived on my doormat today.


What's the point of a dated issue being published over one month ahead of its nominal date?
Is there a rational explanation?

#2082 Alan Cox

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 20:08

I think it's been referred to previously on this thread some time back, Allan. I could never understand it either.

An interesting piece by Joe Saward about the hillclimb up to the roof of the Banville Garage, in Paris, organised by Robert Benoist and Christian Dauvergne.

#2083 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 20:36

Originally posted by Allan Lupton


What's the point of a dated issue being published over one month ahead of its nominal date?
Is there a rational explanation?

No.

It's just that publishers like to do it that way. FWIW the May issues of C&SC and Octane are also due within the next few days: as all three would normally be displayed close to each other, no-one wants to be seen as "odd man out". By mid-April, many of the June issues will be on the shelf - even one or two July issues of computer magazines! I kid you not ....

Plus, a lot of theoretically monthly mags are actually now publishing thirteen times a year, usually slipping in a Summer or Christmas special issue.

There has been recent comment about this in the trade press, but it would take an agreement between all the publishers, which ain't gonna happen. :rolleyes: They can't even standardise on issue week numbers, let alone monthly publication dates!

#2084 ensign14

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 21:05

Is it something to do with conning the consumer into thinking that it's the new issue? If it's the 20th April and you see the April edition you might think it's 20 days out of date or something.

#2085 Allan Lupton

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 17:48

Good, I'll stick to my bound volumes which are from the era when MS was a work of record which reported events as they happened and the publisher made sure it appeared on the first of the month like clockwork.
Nostalgia isn't what it was :lol:

#2086 john aston

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 18:14

This month's is a damn good read; Dennis and Brundle articles excellent.Good to see much longer pieces than most soundbite rags feature. Photos superb too.Now just get rid of the froth - expensive watches and similar garbage and I shall be content.

I have plenty of old copies and whilst at their best they were superb sometimes they were godawful too, let's remember.

And I could not give a flying f*** whether Mays arrives in April - magazines have been doing this for decades - who cares?

#2087 WDH74

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 18:30

Originally posted by Vitesse2

No.

It's just that publishers like to do it that way. FWIW the May issues of C&SC and Octane are also due within the next few days: as all three would normally be displayed close to each other, no-one wants to be seen as "odd man out". By mid-April, many of the June issues will be on the shelf - even one or two July issues of computer magazines! I kid you not ....

Plus, a lot of theoretically monthly mags are actually now publishing thirteen times a year, usually slipping in a Summer or Christmas special issue.

There has been recent comment about this in the trade press, but it would take an agreement between all the publishers, which ain't gonna happen. :rolleyes: They can't even standardise on issue week numbers, let alone monthly publication dates!


I think this is the best explanation as well. Most US published monthlies are like this as well-I think Road & Track used to be two months ahead of schedule. ISTR that there was an editorial piece about this in the magazine once, something about finalizing the magazine well ahead of schedule so it gets to the printers on time, or something.

I personally don't think the date on the cover makes all that much difference, except that overzealous bookstore employees will often times pull, say, the March issue off the shelves before the end of the month because it's close to the end of the month, thus losing any more sales. Its even worse if it's an import magazine, which won't show up till the second week of the following month.....

-William

#2088 David Beard

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 18:35

Hey.... can I be 1st at spotting a mistake this month!!!!!! :wave:

That photo captioned John Fitzpatrick with Moss & Brooks....surely it's Cliff Allison?

#2089 Phil Rainford

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 19:04

This month's Motor Sport kept me engrossed yesterday while the flight I was on proceeded to sit on the runway for an hour.

There is a small piece on the Tom Pryce Memorial Campaign on Page 10

#2090 Barry Boor

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 22:29

I thought that too, David.

#2091 Allan Lupton

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 11:59

Originally posted by WDH74

I personally don't think the date on the cover makes all that much difference

Not now, it doesn't, but in the future: we who delve into old mags. a lot do like the publication date to have some meaning.
e.g. when Dating a Veteran Car, it can be important to know when it, or some aspect of it, first appeared in the press. If it was in the issue dated 10th January 1910 it would be crazy to have to have a cross-reference that told us that that issue was published on (say) 13th December 1909.
Similarly when I look in MS for a report of a GP that happened in the early days of May 1954 I know it will be in the June 1954 issue. But, as I wrote before, it was a magazine of record then, even if, as John Aston said, some articles were rubbish (which they were).

#2092 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 12:38

You guys are either making waaaaaaaay too much over this date on the cover of each issue or have never dealt with American magazines. Since Time Eternal, at least the 1950s in other words, there has been a lag of at least two or even more months between the cover date and the contents. The report on, say, the Italian GP in early September appears in the December issue which actually hit the newsstands and the mails in late October or early November. I don't see the problem, particularly since there is not a damn thing you can do about but bellyache and whine about it, because it is what it is.

#2093 Vitesse2

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 14:09

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
You guys are either making waaaaaaaay too much over this date on the cover of each issue or have never dealt with American magazines. Since Time Eternal, at least the 1950s in other words, there has been a lag of at least two or even more months between the cover date and the contents. The report on, say, the Italian GP in early September appears in the December issue which actually hit the newsstands and the mails in late October or early November. I don't see the problem, particularly since there is not a damn thing you can do about but bellyache and whine about it, because it is what it is.

Precisely. And all you have to do is look at the previous month's issue, when the preview of "next month in ...." will say in bold print "on sale on the xxth of XXXXXX".

#2094 pingst

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 17:37

The Motorsport Magazine must be the best historical magazine in the world. Even the news in the magazine will be history before the magazine reach my postbox.

#2095 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 19:19

Originally posted by pingst
The Motorsport Magazine must be the best historical magazine in the world. Even the news in the magazine will be history before the magazine reach my postbox.


Which is how it was once upon a time before DARPA unleashed the internet and the Web upon an ususpecting world.....

#2096 RA Historian

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 00:45

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Which is how it was once upon a time before DARPA unleashed the internet and the Web upon an ususpecting world.....

And all along I thought that Al Gore invented the internet!

(sorry, American political joke)

#2097 David M. Kane

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 01:26

:eek:

#2098 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 12:37

I worked at DARPA just as the internet was really being unleased and even had both a darpa.mil email address and a "Web site" -- more like a bulletin board in today's world -- at DARPA for our project. Since I had people scattered from literally coast to coast as well as in the middle, this was how I kept things moving once I figured out how powerful a tool it was. Al Gore did visit DARPA when I was there and I briefed him on our project, along with about a half dozen others. We were among the few programs that had any "dual-use" capabilities -- civilian as well as military use in other words, and we were also a Congressionally-mandated program so we were loved and adorned since we had funding and spread money around the research commuity. Little did we ever realize....

#2099 David M. Kane

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 16:26

I had DARPA briefly as an account when I worked for Dell. I had one customer there who had 9 different systems so he could talk to all of his various program people. I also worked withe NSF
(National Science Foundation) that was the Agency that Al Gore's Committee overlooked. I think this is where he tried to lay claim to inventing the Internet. Since I don't want to get get kicked off this Forum, I won't tell you what I think he invented!

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#2100 RA Historian

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 23:27

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Since I don't want to get get kicked off this Forum, I won't tell you what I think he invented!

:up: