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#2101 john aston

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 06:40

Darpa Shmarpa- here is one technophobe limey who has not a clue what the last few posts were about.But not Motor Sport I suspect.

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#2102 David M. Kane

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 22:03

The R and D arm of the U.S. Defense Department (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) invented the Internet so then researchers spread all over the U.S. University complex and private defense contractors could exchange research papers electronically, thereby speeding up the developmental cycle.

As a sub-plot the NSF (National Science Foundation) was also involved in this project through it's funding of research at American Universities.

You are probably correct that it has nothing to do with the various errors, misquotes, wrong captions of photographs or poor delivery of said magazine...

#2103 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 22:15

....which discussion, incidentally, would probably not be taking place had the Yanks at DARPA not invented the internet, thereby, allowing limeys to bitch, wail, and whine about said periodical from the comfort of their homes. Please, no thanks necessary, it was our pleasure.

#2104 2F-001

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 22:17

Well, in a sense it might have... the rise of New Media using the internet as a means of access and distribution has contributed significantly to the pressure that traditional journals have faced and dealt, or not dealt, with.

#2105 Bloggsworth

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 07:59

The R and D arm of the U.S. Defense Department (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) invented the Internet

I think not. It was invented by an Englishman working for CERN in Switzerland:

Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, KBE, FRS, FREng, FRSA, (born June 08, 1955 (1955-06-08) (age 51)) is the inventor of the World Wide Web, director of the World Wide Web Consortium (which oversees its continued development), and a senior researcher and holder of the 3Com Founders Chair at MIT's Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (CSAIL)[1]. Informally, in technical circles, he is sometimes called "TimBL" or "TBL". TBL was the man who developed first HTML-language and HTTP-protocol, he also also wrote first WWW-browser and HTTP-serversoftware.

TBL developed first HTML-language and HTTP-protocol.

The Americans & Russians claim to have invented everything.................. They didn't.

#2106 Alan Lewis

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 11:04

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
The Americans & Russians claim to have invented everything.................. They didn't.


Indeed not. The Chinese invented most things...

APL

#2107 petefenelon

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 11:38

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
The R and D arm of the U.S. Defense Department (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) invented the Internet

I think not. It was invented by an Englishman working for CERN in Switzerland:

Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, KBE, FRS, FREng, FRSA, (born June 08, 1955 (1955-06-08) (age 51)) is the inventor of the World Wide Web, director of the World Wide Web Consortium (which oversees its continued development), and a senior researcher and holder of the 3Com Founders Chair at MIT's Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (CSAIL)[1]. Informally, in technical circles, he is sometimes called "TimBL" or "TBL". TBL was the man who developed first HTML-language and HTTP-protocol, he also also wrote first WWW-browser and HTTP-serversoftware.

TBL developed first HTML-language and HTTP-protocol.

The Americans & Russians claim to have invented everything.................. They didn't.


Sir Tim Berners-Lee invented 'the Web'. Some of us had been using the Internet for the best part of a decade before it went all crap and drool-proof and started sprouting pictures and links ;)

TB-L's innovation wasn't hypertext - that had been done a long time before, with hypermedia and browser-like systems being shown as early as Doug Engelbart's seminal demo of NLS in the late sixties - but in the development of URIs and URLs - a systematic way of naming and accessing everything...

#2108 Bloggsworth

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 11:44

Like the Americans invented television, the jet engine, radar, the computer.................

#2109 ensign14

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 11:52

It's a bit difficult to say "someone" invented the internet. It's like the invention of the car, there's lots of different things at different times and depends on definitions. Does Cugnot's Fardier count? Trevithick's things? Models built by Markus? &c &c.

#2110 David M. Kane

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 13:57

That's not what we said, The WWW evolved from the Internet; or don't you know the difference?

#2111 ensign14

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 14:21

Arguably, everything's the same, anyway. Certainly that's Parmenides' viewpoint and who am I to argue with him? (or myself?)

#2112 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 14:25

Originally posted by David M. Kane
That's not what we said, The WWW evolved from the Internet; or don't you know the difference?


Dave, I very seriously doubt it since few do, but, as usual, sorry I said anydamnthing to upset our Friends.

#2113 rdrcr

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 14:32

No one person invented the Internet as we know it today. However, certain major figures contributed significant breakthroughs:

Leonard Kleinrock was the first to publish a paper about the idea of packet switching, which is essential to the Internet. He did so in 1961. Packet switching is the idea that packets of data can be "routed" from one place to another based on address information carried in the data, much like the address on a letter. Packet switching replaces the older concept of "circuit switching," in which an actual electrical circuit is established all the way from the source to the destination. Circuit switching was the idea behind traditional telephone exchanges.

Why Packet Switching Matters

The big advantage of packet switching: a physical connection can carry packets for many different purposes at the same time, depending on how heavy the traffic is. This is much more efficient than tying up a physical connection for the entire duration of a phone call. And for services like the World Wide Web, where traffic comes in bursts, it's essential.

What if Google needed a separate modem and phone line to talk to every user, like an old-fashioned BBS (Bulletin Board System)? Handling millions of users would be prohibitively expensive. With packet switching, packets destined for thousands or millions of users can share a single physical connection to the Internet.

J.C.R. Licklider was the first to describe an Internet-like worldwide network of computers, in 1962. He called it the "Galactic Network."

Larry G. Roberts created the first functioning long-distance computer networks in 1965 and designed the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET), the seed from which the modern Internet grew, in 1966.

Bob Kahn and Vint Cerf invented the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) which moves data on the modern Internet, in 1972 and 1973. If any two people "invented the Internet," it was Kahn and Cerf - but they have publicly stated that "no one person or group of people" invented the Internet.

Radia Perlman invented the spanning tree algorithm in the 1980s. Her spanning tree algorithm allows efficient bridging between separate networks. Without a good bridging solution, large-scale networks like the Internet would be impractical.

"What about Tim Berners-Lee? Didn't he invent the Internet?"
The Internet was well-established before Tim Berners-Lee and Robert Cailliau created what is now its most popular application. A major achievement? Of course! But we don't ask why Karl Benz doesn't get some of the credit for inventing the wheel. We understand that the wheel was around before the car.

By 1983, TCP was the standard and ARPANET began to resemble the modern Internet in many respects. The ARPANET itself was taken out of commission in 1990. Most restrictions on commercial Internet traffic ended in 1991, with the last limitations removed in 1995. For a much more complete history of the Internet, see the web site of the Internet Society.

All of the web sites in the world, taken together, make up the World Wide Web. The Internet is the worldwide network of interconnected computers, including both web servers and computers like the one on your desk that run web browser software. The Internet also carries other kinds of network traffic unrelated to the web.

Let's put it even more simply:

The Internet is the actual network. The World Wide Web is something you can do with it. You can do other things with it, too. Playing Quake or sending email both use the Internet but are not the World Wide Web.

#2114 ensign14

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 14:52

No one person invented the Internet as we know it today. However, certain major figures contributed significant breakthroughs:

Leonard Kleinrock was the first to publish a paper about the idea of packet switching, which is essential to the Internet. He did so in 1961. Packet switching is the idea that packets of data can be "routed" from one...

...oh, dammit, beaten to it.

#2115 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 15:32

The new internet isn't as good as the old internet.

(This is the MotorSport thread, isn't it?)

Jack

#2116 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 17:23

Originally posted by Jack-the-Lad
The new internet isn't as good as the old internet.

(This is the MotorSport thread, isn't it?)

Jack


Basically, returning to the communal punching bag also known as Motor Sport, how many times can the same things be said again and again and again and again? One begins to think that iit is rather like the Arthur C. CLarke short sory, "The Nine Billion Names of God," at times because at some point....

#2117 ensign14

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 18:06

The thing that Motor Sport can do better than anyone else is fill in the nooks and crannies, such as the recent interview with Gordon Spice. Although there is a book in subjects like that I can't imagine them selling very many...but given that vast tomes have been written about the likes of Fangio and Moss there's not much point in a short article about them unless it comes from an angle that does not need a book length. E.g. a photo feature on Fangio's 1930s drives or Moss' touring car career.

So I'm not particularly bothered if there's an article on, say, Siffert, as it's covering familiar ground to me. Maybe to new bugs it's different. I'd rather read about the "forgotten" stories than brief overviews of "bookable" subjects.

#2118 philippe charuest

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 18:27

Posted Image

#2119 philippe charuest

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 18:29

that article was published in the magazine Horizon in january 1962, Arthur C Clarke is the guy who foresaw the internet a long time ago

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#2120 philippe charuest

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 18:38

to come back to motorsport and about the caption, is it possible that theres an error again in the april issue (the last one for me in Montreal). page 101 elford helmet hanging on a cooper maserati ?? im pretty sure that its the 68 "side tank" mclaren

#2121 PRD

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 10:23

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
....which discussion, incidentally, would probably not be taking place had the Yanks at DARPA not invented the internet, thereby, allowing limeys to bitch, wail, and whine about said periodical from the comfort of their homes. Please, no thanks necessary, it was our pleasure.


Who said that Americans don't understand irony? :lol:

#2122 David M. Kane

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 14:46

:confused: Would that be Tragic irony, Socratic irony or Cosmic irony? Is there such a thing as Purse irony?

#2123 kayemod

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 16:09

Originally posted by David M. Kane
:confused: Would that be Tragic irony, Socratic irony or Cosmic irony? Is there such a thing as Purse irony?


Hollywood provided us with Dick Van Dyke's cockney accent in Mary Poppins, what further evidence of irony do you want?

#2124 vivafroilan!

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 16:32

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


Basically, returning to the communal punching bag also known as Motor Sport, how many times can the same things be said again and again and again and again? One begins to think that iit is rather like the Arthur C. CLarke short sory, "The Nine Billion Names of God," at times because at some point....


Don, I love that story -- should we be watching the magazine or the sky?

#2125 David M. Kane

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 18:56

Kayemod:

I think it's safe to assume then that you're not be too keen on my idea to use Slyvester Stallone as the next James Bond... :evil:

#2126 petefenelon

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 19:39

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


Basically, returning to the communal punching bag also known as Motor Sport, how many times can the same things be said again and again and again and again? One begins to think that iit is rather like the Arthur C. CLarke short sory, "The Nine Billion Names of God," at times because at some point....


The stars started going out when Jenks died.

#2127 T54

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 21:24

I renewed my subscription on the cheap and received my first issue in 2 years, and I am not impressed. Reading it feels like bemusing at one of those British TV shows for ignorants like Top Gear. The only worthwhile read is still the Bill Boddy stuff...
A true disappointment compared to my precious mid-1930's issues. :(

#2128 Stan Patterson

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 10:03

Motor Sport is now just rubbish.


Once an Icionic and fiercely BritIsh magazine...one where us Aussie schoolboys would hang around our newsagent ,,waiting for DSJ and WB..to arrive by Royal Mail


Frankly, i dont give a rats A...e about Fireball Roberts or all the compulsory American "stories" which appear each month about people who have no relevance to our real motor racing.


It is Over

Where is my Lifesyle Aston DB3S?

Stan Patterson

A Real Person

#2129 Darren Galpin

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 10:11

Sorry, have to disagree - I like the stories about US racing and the people who competed there. I think the relentless naval gazing at the European racing scene by the European press and authors misses out an awful lot about what really happened, and how influences from elsewhere diffused around the world. The European publications (and books) like to ignore what happened in the US, and that is a mistake - these US articles in Motor Sport help to redress that.

There are other things that are rubbish in the magazine though, but that's a separate point.

#2130 Stan Patterson

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 10:49

Darren,

I love reading of US sports car racing and the drivers it spawned..Gregory, Hill, Shelby, Ginther,Hansgen, Boss etc...cant get enough,,

We have no interest whatsoever in US Oval racing..at whatsoever level..State Fair, Indyy or NASCAR.

I want to read of WB's visit to the Rover Company Limited and how Rover 105S's are made, not about how some Fair Ground racer in Idaho drove a midget ....wherever.......


Stan Patterson
It is Anzac Day

#2131 RA Historian

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:22

Here we go again. Every month the magazine comes out, and every month we have the obligatory bitching about how the magazine has gone to hell. Friends, it is getting rather wearisome.

Many times earlier in this thread there have been rebuttals which I thought placed the matter in perspective; that is, the state of magazine publishing today, the necessity of putting out a product that appeals to enough people to sell and to make a profit, the fact that you can't please all the people, etc., etc. I had thought that those explanations would have settled the matter.

I was wrong.

I do not like every article in the magazine either; who does? But overall it has enough quality articles to make me continue to subscribe, to look forward to its arrival, and to enjoy reading it. If you don't like it, stop subscribing, go read Better Homes and Gardens or something similar, and please stop telling those of us who do enjoy it just how s----y you think the mag is. Frankly, we don't care.

#2132 Pils1989

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:54

Yeap, I just stop buying it. Now, my dad sends me his copies once he has read them. They arrive faster and don't go MIA as when I was a subscriber :lol:

#2133 Stan Patterson

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 13:04

Sorry RA,

In 1952 ,when my Dad first brought home Motor Sport, out here in Australia we did'nt give a toss about anything, except for British racing, GP and Euro racing.....your racing didn't count..sad thing is, it never has ..apart from your excellent sports car racing....you must start to address the issues..

In those far-off days Motor Sport was a bible.

Today it is nothing more than an Auction- House- American-Reader-Seeking Whore.


I think you unknowingly acknowledged the latter point in your last post


There are 3 Billion Capitalists in India and China


Stan Patterson
Totally Fed Up Aussie

#2134 T54

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 14:20

Go Stan, tell us how you really feel! :eek: :lol:

#2135 Jim Thurman

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 16:45

Originally posted by Stan Patterson
Sorry RA,

In 1952 ,when my Dad first brought home Motor Sport, out here in Australia we did'nt give a toss about anything, except for British racing, GP and Euro racing.....your racing didn't count..sad thing is, it never has ..apart from your excellent sports car racing....you must start to address the issues..

In those far-off days Motor Sport was a bible.

Today it is nothing more than an Auction- House- American-Reader-Seeking Whore.


I think you unknowingly acknowledged the latter point in your last post


There are 3 Billion Capitalists in India and China


Stan Patterson
Totally Fed Up Aussie


You must start to address the issues?...hmmm, same applies to you Stan :lol:

If (as you so eloquently put it) they are whoring themselves to the almighty American market, they aren't doing a very good job of it, because the magazine hasn't been seen on newsstands in the area I live since the new year began.

Along those lines, Darren, Tom, anyone...what, or better yet, who - from the U.S. racing scene has appeared in MotorSport this year. Well, other than that tosser Roberts :rolleyes:

#2136 Lifew12

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 16:47

Originally posted by RA Historian
Here we go again. Every month the magazine comes out, and every month we have the obligatory bitching about how the magazine has gone to hell. Friends, it is getting rather wearisome.

Many times earlier in this thread there have been rebuttals which I thought placed the matter in perspective; that is, the state of magazine publishing today, the necessity of putting out a product that appeals to enough people to sell and to make a profit, the fact that you can't please all the people, etc., etc. I had thought that those explanations would have settled the matter.

I was wrong.

I do not like every article in the magazine either; who does? But overall it has enough quality articles to make me continue to subscribe, to look forward to its arrival, and to enjoy reading it. If you don't like it, stop subscribing, go read Better Homes and Gardens or something similar, and please stop telling those of us who do enjoy it just how s----y you think the mag is. Frankly, we don't care.


Well said. Of course, those that believe they could do better might like to have a go.

#2137 Jim Thurman

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 16:57

Originally posted by Stan Patterson
Darren,

I love reading of US sports car racing and the drivers it spawned..Gregory, Hill, Shelby, Ginther,Hansgen, Boss etc...cant get enough,,

We have no interest whatsoever in US Oval racing..at whatsoever level..State Fair, Indyy or NASCAR.

I want to read of WB's visit to the Rover Company Limited and how Rover 105S's are made, not about how some Fair Ground racer in Idaho drove a midget ....wherever.......


Stan Patterson
It is Anzac Day


Boss?

While I am impressed that you know of Idaho, there has never been much fairgrounds racing there, actually far less than most states.

What about Indy and NASCAR road races? A lot more of it than many realize. You know, even that Roberts fellow did a bit of Sports Car racing.

And Stan, trivia I was going to post to TNF, but will go ahead here as it fits: there have been three World Driving Champions who raced Midgets. Have any idea who?

One should be plainly obvious.

#2138 kayemod

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 17:22

Originally posted by Lifew12


Well said. Of course, those that believe they could do better might like to have a go.


That isn't a very helpful comment, but it's the kind of thing I'd expect from a young(ish) person working on the motorsport media today. The real problem with the current state of Motor Sport magazine, and to a rather greater extent Autosport, is that the average age of the editorial staff is probably much the same as that of their target readership, which means that it's something like half that of the average TNF member. OK, so I'm an 'old fart', something that doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I can recognise that everything changes, things move on. Autosport these days is so tabloid and populist that it reads like something published by the Sun newspaper. The Editor seems to have little interest in, and no real knowledge of anything that happened before the middle of the Schumacher era, their risible lists, 'Top 100 drivers of all time', '50 best comeback drives', '25 best drives by men under 5' 6", '15 best races by drivers born with an R in the month' are evidence of that. Face it chaps, our collective knowledge and experience of motor racing before 1995 counts for nothing, these magazines are aimed at much younger people, we're completely out of it. They don't want us, and what most of us really need is the motorsport equivalent of 'The Oldie'.

#2139 David M. Kane

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 17:31

"The only thing new is the history you haven't read"- Harry S. Truman

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#2140 David McKinney

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 17:33

Originally posted by kayemod
...what most of us really need is the motorsport equivalent of 'The Oldie'.

Great idea.
They could call it Motor Sport

#2141 kayemod

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 18:35

Originally posted by David McKinney

Great idea.
They could call it Motor Sport


And you'd probably have to produce a pension book or bus pass to buy a copy.

#2142 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 22:30

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
.....trivia I was going to post to TNF, but will go ahead here as it fits: there have been three World Driving Champions who raced Midgets. Have any idea who?


Jack is obvious...

Mario would have been another.

Candidates for the third:

Phil Hill
Juan Manuel Fangio*
Jody Scheckter

* My choice... probably A-model or T-model based.

#2143 Magee

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 00:53

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


Basically, returning to the communal punching bag also known as Motor Sport, how many times can the same things be said again and again and again and again? One begins to think that iit is rather like the Arthur C. CLarke short sory, "The Nine Billion Names of God," at times because at some point....


Perhaps a word play or begging the question in the title?

A comment follows by Annette Andrews, Beijing, China; someone who's understands beyond the title,

"Arthur C. Clarke's short story "The Nine Billion Names of God," in which Tibetans in a lamasery search for the name of God. One must assume the Tibetans at the lamasery are either Buddhist or Bon practioners, both of which are monistic and both of which deny the existence of one God."

#2144 RA Historian

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:24

Got much of the feedback that I expected. There is a certain number out there who strike me as being just bitter old men, longing for the old days to return. They are gone, friends, and they ain't coming back.

I like Motor Sport, and I will admit it. Now, if you want to know what mags disappoint me, I will start with Road & Track, which is nothing like I remember it from my youth. But, as much as the mag has changed and is no longer as it was, I recognize that the editors are playing for an audience which will buy the mag in quantity, and will allow them to turn a profit, which is the name of the game. I could go on this forum every month and bash Road & Track, and I surely could, but I do not because it would solve nothing, prove nothing, and just be an exercise of a tired old man bitching. The same with Motor Sport. Enough already. I am tired of it. If you do not like it, do not subscribe, but please do not tell me each month just how rotten it is because I do not care.

Stan, based upon postings that both you and I have done in the past, we have a lot in common, and if we were to sit down in a corner bar over a good drink I know we would have a wonderful time. But we do not agree on everything, and is that not the way of life? If we agreed on everything, would not life be dull?
Tom

#2145 rdrcr

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:40

^ one of the clearest spoken people on this forum, once again speaks the truth.

Somehow, I find it ironic that it was Keir who started this thread. Witness, the only post by me, (other than this one), was towards someting totally unrelated to the topic. LOL - not uncommon for me either, but it was hijacked long before I got here.

OTOH, there is so much information being exchanged here (and other forums) about so many facets of motorsports history, I think many can over look 2k+ post threads like this one...
...

The reading of important things is what's important.

#2146 ian senior

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:51

Originally posted by RA Historian
Got much of the feedback that I expected. There is a certain number out there who strike me as being just bitter old men, longing for the old days to return. They are gone, friends, and they ain't coming back.

I like Motor Sport, and I will admit it. Now, if you want to know what mags disappoint me, I will start with Road & Track, which is nothing like I remember it from my youth. But, as much as the mag has changed and is no longer as it was, I recognize that the editors are playing for an audience which will buy the mag in quantity, and will allow them to turn a profit, which is the name of the game. I could go on this forum every month and bash Road & Track, and I surely could, but I do not because it would solve nothing, prove nothing, and just be an exercise of a tired old man bitching. The same with Motor Sport. Enough already. I am tired of it. If you do not like it, do not subscribe, but please do not tell me each month just how rotten it is because I do not care.

Stan, based upon postings that both you and I have done in the past, we have a lot in common, and if we were to sit down in a corner bar over a good drink I know we would have a wonderful time. But we do not agree on everything, and is that not the way of life? If we agreed on everything, would not life be dull?
Tom


A lot of truth in this. This thread looms up on a monthly basis and just regurgitates itself. Groundhog Day springs to mind, for some reason.

Motor Sport ain't bad. It's not perfect by any means, but there is a lot of good stuff in it. And be honest, was it ever as wonderful as you wanted it to be? I love looking back at old copies but at times there was an awful lot of dross in it. You, or at least I, just learned to gloss over the stuff that wasn't of much interest. Just like today.

It's almost tempting to ask for this thread to be closed, but rather than be depressed or annoyed by it all, I actually find it quite amusing.

#2147 Stan Patterson

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:25

Mr Senior
(btw do you play golf?)


Are you suggesting that the Wartime Diaries of Brigadier Sir Vivian Bagshot, KAR Rtd and his planned retreat down the Malayaian Penninsula in his 1938 Hillman Minx, are dross?


Shame on You Sir!!

#2148 Lifew12

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 13:49

Originally posted by kayemod


That isn't a very helpful comment, but it's the kind of thing I'd expect from a young(ish) person working on the motorsport media today. The real problem with the current state of Motor Sport magazine, and to a rather greater extent Autosport, is that the average age of the editorial staff is probably much the same as that of their target readership, which means that it's something like half that of the average TNF member. OK, so I'm an 'old fart', something that doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I can recognise that everything changes, things move on. Autosport these days is so tabloid and populist that it reads like something published by the Sun newspaper. The Editor seems to have little interest in, and no real knowledge of anything that happened before the middle of the Schumacher era, their risible lists, 'Top 100 drivers of all time', '50 best comeback drives', '25 best drives by men under 5' 6", '15 best races by drivers born with an R in the month' are evidence of that. Face it chaps, our collective knowledge and experience of motor racing before 1995 counts for nothing, these magazines are aimed at much younger people, we're completely out of it. They don't want us, and what most of us really need is the motorsport equivalent of 'The Oldie'.


To be honest with you, Kayemod, my main interest is in the era prior to the second World War, and while my comment may not have been 'helpful', neither are a whole load of posts dedicated to how awful a particular magazine is.

Of course the likes of Autosport and Motor Sport have become more 'populist', as you put it; have you considered why? It's quite simple - and i'm sure you know, really - it's because they have to sell copies. Not only that, but unlike the 'old days' when they were 'good' they have the added competition of this thing - the World Wide Web - and the myriad of sites and on line magazines that provide exactly the same thing at a fraction of, or no, cost. What publisher is going to risk producing something as specialist and specific as you (and many of us) want, when it will sell only to a bare few? It makes no commercial sense at all.

I would guess that the average age of the editorship of those magazines has always been the same as that of their target readership - old editors retire, younger ones move in, a new market opens up, different interests take precedence. It's just the way of the world, i'm afraid.

Back to my comment, the unhelpful one, it's quite easy to set up a web-site these days, have it running and providing the sort of thing you want to read, and therefore what like-minded people want to read, but a print magazine? Forget it. If you want to put you collective knowledge to good use, then why not begin a site? Complaining about Motor Sport won't get you anywhere.

#2149 kayemod

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 18:58

Thanks for that reasoned response Lifew 12, although we're sitting on opposite sides of the fence, I'd say we agreed on most of the important aspects, because we're saying pretty much the same thing from a slightly different viewpoint. I do of course understand the market realities of magazines having to cater for the tastes of their target readership, which is more or less what I said in the post you were replying to. I finally gave up on Autosport earlier this year, largely because of their endless silly space filling lists of fastest laps and pole positions and the like, and it's several years since I bought a copy of Motor Sport. In both cases, I accepted that the kind of thing I wanted to see in both magazines, well written articles in grown-up language, by journalists who had a reasonable understanding of the subject matter, had become a minority interest, but it was of course inevitable that this would happen sooner or later. As you said, it's the way of the world, and endlessly criticising Motor Sport in a thread like this one, isn't going to achieve anything at all, other than making a few of us 'old farts' feel a bit better.

#2150 RA Historian

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 23:37

Originally posted by Lifew12

while my comment may not have been 'helpful', neither are a whole load of posts dedicated to how awful a particular magazine is.

Of course the likes of Autosport and Motor Sport have become more 'populist', as you put it; have you considered why? It's quite simple - and i'm sure you know, really - it's because they have to sell copies. Not only that, but unlike the 'old days' when they were 'good' they have the added competition of this thing - the World Wide Web - and the myriad of sites and on line magazines that provide exactly the same thing at a fraction of, or no, cost. What publisher is going to risk producing something as specialist and specific as you (and many of us) want, when it will sell only to a bare few? It makes no commercial sense at all.

I would guess that the average age of the editorship of those magazines has always been the same as that of their target readership - old editors retire, younger ones move in, a new market opens up, different interests take precedence. It's just the way of the world, i'm afraid.

Back to my comment, the unhelpful one, it's quite easy to set up a web-site these days, have it running and providing the sort of thing you want to read, and therefore what like-minded people want to read, but a print magazine? Forget it. If you want to put you collective knowledge to good use, then why not begin a site? Complaining about Motor Sport won't get you anywhere.


BINGO!!

:up: